I know this might seem like a newbie question, but I would like to know what's the difference between mono and braid in terms of strength and durability. I've always fished with mono, but sometimes I find it slightly unreliable in cold weather. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

-Dave

braid has an approximate (depending on what kind) diameter of 1/3 mono of the equivalent # test rating....for example, 65# PowerPro has the diameter of 18# mono.....
there are many braids to choose from, like fireline, powerpro, stealth, whiplash(discontinued) , everyone has their favorites.
Mono has some stretch to it, don't know the exact percentage but I think its something like 25%? Braid has no stretch, allowing you to feel EVERYTHING which can be a great advantage but hard to get used to after fishing mono for a while.
Braid is good for alot of things, like plugging from the surf, fishing lures, all that stuff, but mono is preferred by most chunk fisherman. When fishing braid it is important to have a "top-shot" of mono, of variable lengths depending on the fish you are after. I use a 3' mono topshot when trolling for bluefish, but a 50' for cod jigging....so its greatly dependant on the species your after.
I like powerpro alot, everyone has there own opinions and I have heard more than once about "bad batches" of powerpro. my batches seem to be great, I love its limpness, sensitivity, small diameter and strength compared to mono, and fished in cold weather its alot easier in my opinion. mono is easier to tie knots with though. ive fished both but overall i like braid more
as for durability, most braids can be left on your reels for like 2 years, when mono should be changed often, like once a month depending on how much fishing you do.
I dont have alot of experience, im only a 15 yr old kid whos been fishing the salt for a year but I have learned alot from these boards so much of my information has been taken from what I have learned here, coupled with the little experience I have.
:D

Inshore basically covered the bases here. Braid has very little stretch to it, so is a lot more sensative than mono. You can also set the hook with a lot less force. It is very abrasion resistant when compared to mono. A bonus of its smaller diameter is that you can cast a lot farther. Since the diameter is so small, most people use mono backing. This is also good because the braid tied direct to the spool will slip, since it doesn't stretch and grab the spool like mono. Otherwise, you can use some rubbery tape on the spool for the braid to dig into. I just switched one reel over to braid at the end of this season and next spring I'm going all braid; I'm converted.

I like Braid, and use Spiderwire Stealth, but tried 20# Fireline at the end of the season, and I really like it. I get better casts. Farther, and smoother.

Braid is way stronger than mono, and much more durable. For instance, in off-balance/ackward rod positions, you can get better, more positive hook-sets with a braid, or Fireline. Since switching from mono, I have had zero breakoffs with Spiderwire Stealth braid, or Fireline. But, with a braid, it is still a good idea to check the braid if you fish heavy cover/structure, especially if you dont use a leader. I believe knots to be stronger with braids as well.

I think with Fireline you get the strength and "no stretch" like a braid, but you get the smooth casting of a good mono.

I will probably only use the 30# Spiderwire on my boat rod (9' Ugly w/ Okuma Baitrunner reel).

My 6' freshwater, 7' marsh/river/all purpose, and my giant surf caster (which I have yet to purchase), will all have Fireline on the reels.

If you want the best of both worlds, I suggest you check out Fireline :)

P.S. I, 99% of the time, use an 18" leader. Either an Eagle Claw black in 45 lb. test, or homemade 18" Flouro-Carbon leaders in 30# test.

I am torn between this issue also, this summer I tried Spiderwire Fusion which is not a true braid, kind of a hybrid between both. It casted great and I really liked it, then one night I got into a school of blues and bass at one of the breachways and I got cut off 4 times when fighting a fish. Well after the fourth time I decided to look at my line and it was fraying all over. I am thinking about trying Fireline this spring, does anyone have any issues with Fireline fraying? I tried Spiderwire Super Mono and really liked it. It is a lot thinner than you average mono but I still think I will try the Fireline.

Once you go braid you'll never go back.

Thanks for the reply guys, it's been very helpful, as well as influential. One more question; how much more expensive/cheaper is braided line compared to mono?

It's more expensive but worth it in the long run. The stuff lasts a lot longer than mono and you won't have to change your line as much. Some guys use the same line for a year or two. It's popular to reverse the line at the end of a season to extend its life.

Don't worry if the braid gets a bit frayed and gets a little 'fuzzy.' It is still fishable and strong. The outside filaments may be cut but the core is still intact. With mono, you get a nick like that and it's all over. Of course if you get major fraying then please cut back and retie.

Notaro...

Please stick to what you know. There is no need to respond to EVERY post.

Braid is quadruple the price of mono, but I actually think it costs a lot less money in the long run. You only have to change it once every year at the most, and you'll save money by reducing your lure snap offs as well due to the increased line strength.

Fireline will work on virtually every spinner. It's great. For conventionals it seems to be a matter of personal preference.

Make the switch you'll be amazed at the difference.

DC- Do you put it on yourself or have a tackleshop do it? I was told you want to make sure it is really tight.

The thing about putting it on tight... it's supposed to help eliminate 'wind knots,' which are the most improperly named thing, but once you cast and retrieve you lose some of the 'tightness.' I have never had a wind knot with PP. I don't tug my line or look at the spool before I cast either. I must admit that I have usually used it with lures that provide atleast a little bit of resistance. I have not used it with something like a Sluggo yet which would pretty much result in a slack line retrieval.

One thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet... this stuff is so amazingly tough you won't be able to cut it well with a knife. Sure you can saw through it, but it is like cutting through rope. The results won't be pretty. The best thing to use is very sharp scizzors. You can buy small shears designed for braid. Oh and when you try to break off a snag, don't use your bare hands. You'll get cut very badly.

Oh one more thing! Don't use clinch knots with this stuff... they may slip. I recommend the polomar knot and when you can't use that, the uni knot.

DC, when did Notaro reply to this post?

Good info Scoobe - Do you wear something on your casting index finger for protection?

Bassman18, are you considering about switching to braid?

Last time I had it spooled on my reel to it's full capacity like 200 or 300 yards of fireline 30 lbs. It costs me $15 or more. It depends on how many lbs testing you want it to be on.

Originally posted by rwilhelm
I am torn between this issue also, this summer I tried Spiderwire Fusion which is not a true braid, kind of a hybrid between both. It casted great and I really liked it, then one night I got into a school of blues and bass at one of the breachways and I got cut off 4 times when fighting a fish. Well after the fourth time I decided to look at my line and it was fraying all over. I am thinking about trying Fireline this spring, does anyone have any issues with Fireline fraying? I tried Spiderwire Super Mono and really liked it. It is a lot thinner than you average mono but I still think I will try the Fireline.

rwilhelm,
Did you use fusion on a spinning reel and what was the #test?
I've had problems with fusion on spinning reels it twists very easily.. worse line to put on a spinning reel. On a conventional it's sweet.. it shoots right out and doesnt burn thumb. I currently use the 80# fusion for COD fishing it's excellent. I used fireline for freshwater trout fishing never had a fraying problem considering all the rocks, stumps and brush in the water.
Dunno if it was just me but that spiderwire super mono is very deceiving.. requiring a spool change every other week.. i've found that saltwater/sun/heavy fish take a serious toll on that line.
I've found Hybrid to be very consistant outing after outing.

rwilhelm,

I've heaved 3oz bucktails and spoons into the ditch all night with the PP and my index is usually a-aok. That's when your drifts are less than 30 seconds too, so it's a lot of casting. Once in a while my finger gets a little sore, but this happened with 20# mono as well. Usually my arm will be sore from jigging before my finger hurts from line burn. I use the 50#; maybe the guys using the 30# get more wear on their skin. I have cut myself, though, trying to pull out a snag before. I was even being careful and made sure not to pull too hard. It's suprising how easily the stuff cut through skin.

Originally posted by leptar
rwilhelm,
Did you use fusion on a spinning reel and what was the #test?
I've had problems with fusion on spinning reels it twists very easily.. worse line to put on a spinning reel. On a conventional it's sweet.. it shoots right out and doesnt burn thumb. I currently use the 80# fusion for COD fishing it's excellent. I used fireline for freshwater trout fishing never had a fraying problem considering all the rocks, stumps and brush in the water.
Dunno if it was just me but that spiderwire super mono is very deceiving.. requiring a spool change every other week.. i've found that saltwater/sun/heavy fish take a serious toll on that line.
I've found Hybrid to be very consistant outing after outing.

Leptar I was using 24 lb fusion on a spinning reel, a Penn Powergraph and I never had any problems with twists. I did like the line as far as handling and casting but did not like the breakoffs but maybe that was just the blues shredding my line and I should give it another chance.

#50 PP on the big sticks and #30 on the small sticks. Unfortunately I'm spoiled by it now and have a hard time going back to mono. Maybe I'll use mono more next season...

hey, don't u guys notice whenver you spool your fireline under tension and touch it for a short moment, your fingers get marrooned by it? Like fireline?

Originally posted by Notaro
hey, don't u guys notice whenver you spool your fireline under tension and touch it for a short moment, your fingers get marrooned by it?

Uh... what?!

Notaro, it's costing me about $25 to spool with three hundred yards of 30 lb. Fireline. Where can I get the stuff for half price, without buying a few thousand yards at a time? I'm asking in all seriousness, since I have a VS and an Ahab that'll both take at least 300 yards each, as well as a Penn 965 that needs a new load.

I dunno. I think that you could try Tropicland B7T in Dedham, MA. I frequent there sometimes.

Dave,

That's what it costs, but it will be cheaper in the long run. Well worth the money.

Originally posted by davess23
Notaro, it's costing me about $25 to spool with three hundred yards of 30 lb. Fireline. Where can I get the stuff for half price, without buying a few thousand yards at a time? I'm asking in all seriousness, since I have a VS and an Ahab that'll both take at least 300 yards each, as well as a Penn 965 that needs a new load.

Notaro must mean that price for 125 yard spool, there is no way he got that price for 300 yards.

One thing I do if I'm spooling up a reel with braid (regardless of whether spinner, conventional, fly spool, etc) is to WET PACK the line.

Best if you have a friend helping you.

Get a pencil, stick it through the spool.

Place pencil and spool in a warm bucket of water.

With a friend applying moderate braking tension on the submerged spool, start winding the line on to your reel, making sure that tension is maintained.

Wet packing assists in laying of the line tightly.

Also, if you've never had wind knots with power pro, you will if you throw small jigs and swimmers on 30 lb. test.

-WW

One more thing to consider if you want to save some $$$.

On larger reels with large line capacity (say, greater than 300 yards), you don't need to fill up the entire spool with braid. It's expensive, and unless you're gonna go tuna fishing you're not likely to get spooled.

Use 20 or 25 test monofilament as the first layer on your spool - this is called "backing." Fill up the spool say 1/2 to 1/3 or more (depends on the reel) with mono, and then attach the braid via an albright knot with an overhand lock knot.

Not only will this help save money and avoid wasting line, but you'll also avoid the problem of line tangles and lumps deep into the spool which can influence the way the upper layers are spooled on the retrieve.

-WW

Originally posted by rwilhelm
Notaro must mean that price for 125 yard spool, there is no way he got that price for 300 yards.

i just checked my post out and realized one thing, you were right. i got it about 15 bucks. I just recalled the cost of the braided line spooling.

DaveSS, I didn't meant to mislead you or cause any false info on the pricing. My bad, man. I apologize for that.

Bassman18, listen to fishweewee.

FWW, is it possible to apply the spooling technique you just described on a berkley dogg bone spooling station?

No problem here, Notaro. I just got excited for a while, since I need a lot. Maybe I should get a bulk spool.

Paying full price for Fireline is okay, though, considering how long it lasts. I've gotten two seasons out of a single spooling, and that's got to represent at least four re-spoolings with a good quality mono, so it's definitely worth the money.

weewee, could you explain to me how to tie an overhand lock knot?

Originally posted by fishweewee
One thing I do if I'm spooling up a reel with braid (regardless of whether spinner, conventional, fly spool, etc) is to WET PACK the line.

Best if you have a friend helping you.

Get a pencil, stick it through the spool.

Place pencil and spool in a warm bucket of water.

With a friend applying moderate braking tension on the submerged spool, start winding the line on to your reel, making sure that tension is maintained.

Wet packing assists in laying of the line tightly.

-WW

ok, I have a little question with that process, I'm gonna spool some braided line on a penn 330GTi, however, it's also spooled with #40 mono. My question is this, if I use your method of wet packing, will the braided line be embedded in the mono and cause tangles within the spool? Or should I just reel in a good layer of braided line then wet pack it from there?

For what it's worth, I've been using braids since they first came out. PowerPro is now on all my spinning rigs; Suffix mono is on all my conventionals. Braids I've tried over the years are SpiderWire, FireLine, MagiBraid, Ripcord, and PP. I find PP is the best in terms of strength, small diameter, abrasion resistance, but it bleaches out in color very quickly (not an issue to me, though). It'll cut you like a knife if you're not careful pulling a fish out of the water, though.

Biggest problem I had with braids was on reels that have bushings instead of bearings in the line roller in the bail. Bushed rollers seem to roll less often than ones with bearings, so the line slides over the roller more, rather than causing the roller to roll with the line. This is exacerbated by braids that are almost greasy slick and cause less surface tension on the rollers. Further, most of the braids have a flat profile rather than round. They're like ribbon. So, when I was using all Penn SSs and Zs (bushed bearings), I'd get tremendous twists outside the roller, especially when landing a fish. As soon as slack would occur, the twisted line would next wrap onto the reel and then all hell would break loose.

PowerPro is round in profile, like mono. So it has a much lower tendency to twist outside a non-rolling roller. I also gave my Penns to sons-in-law, sons, and grandkids and bought Shimano Sustains, with good bearings in the line rollers but otherwise not as durable as the old Penns. Sustains require a lot of TLC but they are otherwise great reels, for my purposes anyway.

I even use 65# PP as shock leader on monster rods.

For knots, the only one that I haven't had problems with is the uni for attachment, and uni-to-uni for joining lines.

PP hasn't frayed like my SpiderWire and FireLine either. I know that they say the fraying isn't a problem, but I just didn't like it. They would get pretty ratty very fast.

I have almost all 20# PP on everything, with 65# shock leaders on the big rods. I load it myself and buy the biggest spools I can find to keep the per foot costs lower. It's still too expensive.

Last point: Biggest problem with PP and other braids is when you have to join two lines, such as putting a 65# shock leader on the end of, say, a 14#, 17# or 20# main line. That uni-to-uni now will pick up any loose wraps on the reel during a cast, and you instantly have a ball of line around the knot. I've had them pull the ceramic inserts right out of Fuji silicon carbide guides. I have used this stuff enough now that I can tell by the sound of a small clump going through the guides that it's there. And now I just cut it out and retie rather than ignoring it like I used to do.

'Sorry this is so long. Hope it helps someone. Oh, and if you try PP, bring your checkbook!!

Originally posted by Bob Senior
Biggest problem I had with braids was on reels that have bushings instead of bearings in the line roller in the bail. Bushed rollers seem to roll less often than ones with bearings, so the line slides over the roller more, rather than causing the roller to roll with the line. This is exacerbated by braids that are almost greasy slick and cause less surface tension on the rollers. Further, most of the braids have a flat profile rather than round. They're like ribbon. So, when I was using all Penn SSs and Zs (bushed bearings), I'd get tremendous twists outside the roller, especially when landing a fish. As soon as slack would occur, the twisted line would next wrap onto the reel and then all hell would break loose.

Thanks Bob, I'm a little confused about bushings and bearings. Are those found in spinning reels, conventional reels, or both?

Perhaps some close up pics would help clarify the bushing/bearing topic?

that might help a bit

Originally posted by Bassman18
weewee, could you explain to me how to tie an overhand lock knot?

just a simple knot, like you would tie your shoelaces with.

Originally posted by Bassman18
ok, I have a little question with that process, I'm gonna spool some braided line on a penn 330GTi, however, it's also spooled with #40 mono. My question is this, if I use your method of wet packing, will the braided line be embedded in the mono and cause tangles within the spool? Or should I just reel in a good layer of braided line then wet pack it from there?

You will actually NEED some mono base layers on the bottom for the braided line to "stick" to the spool. Otherwise, the line would slip as the spool revolves!

Wet pack the braid on top of the mono, after you have tied a modified albright knot that connects the mono to the braid.

Scoobe:

I don't have pictures of spinning reel line rollers on bushings. But it's a straightforward matter. It's Item # 6085 in the SF4000FD reel parts diagram on the shimano website: http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/us/en/fishing/products/reels/reels_spinning/sustain/sa4000fd.html

The line roller is the thing on the bail that line slides over as it is wrapped onto the spool. It is mounted on the pickup end of the bail. On cheap reels there is no roller, just the wire of the bail that the line slides over.

On better reels there is a roller, a grooved wheel, mounted in the bail so as to "pick up" the line when the bail closes after a cast, so that the reel can be cranked to bring back the line. The better the roller rotates as line slides over it, the less is the tendency for twist that might be in the line to be "blocked" and built up just outside the roller.

Rollers that are mounted on a bearing tend to hang up less than rollers mounted on bushings--no guarantees though. A bushing is simply a metal tube that slips over a metal rod so that the tube (with a line roller attached to it) can rotate around the rod. Penn SSs and Zs have bushed rollers. Shimanos, Daiwas, Van Staals, and others have rollers mounted on bearings.

On conventional reels, the only thing even remotely related to spining reels' line rollers would be the part of a levelwind system that the line slides through, like on an abu 6500 CS, for example, but they have much less affect on the performance of the pickup function of a conventional reel than on a spinning reel.

Does that help?

Well I knew what a line roller was. :D I think pretty much all the reels these days come with one.

I was just wondering if it was easy to tell between the bushing and bearing models. I guess you can't really tell from the outside and would have to look at a schematic.

Thanks for the thorough explanation, though.

For those of you who like Fireline... there is a sale going on for amost alll Berkley products at eangler.com. You can get the 125 yard spools of Fireline for 12.99. I'm not sure if that's a good price or not as I've never bought the stuff. I may stock up on PowerBait, though.

that's not a good price. that's the kind of price you get from wal-mart. if it's a 12.50 for one 300 yards of fireline, i will take it.