Been heavy into lure fishing and am now thinking of taking up fly-fishing this year.
The challenge and art of Saltwater fly-fishing has got to be the ultimate.

Have a few questions, if you don't mind.

Q1. Any suggestion on a halfway decent rod and real setup to start out with?
(Yes I am married, so price would be a factor. Later on once I paid my dues more I would invest more.) (Will be fishing from a boat, it that is a factor.)

I read once that it takes alot of dedication, so don't bring your spinning gear because it would be all to easy to fall back on.
Q2. Is their truth to this strategy?


Thanks in advance.
Al

Congrats on taking the plunge

Rod: Temple Fork Series 1, 9 wt. Cost $100. A great all around casting rod.

Reel choices, least expensive first:
If freshwater rinse is available after each outing: Pflueger Medalist $35, Okuma Integrity large arbor $80.
If fresh rinse is not available: Old Florida $175 ish

Line -: by order of importance for beginner fishing from a boat:
Clear intermediate to use in the shallow areas and useable when fishing poppers and sliders. This will probably be 75% of your fishing to begin.
Extra fast sinking: For most everything else. This should eventually become your 75% use line.
Floating: very shallow water, changing presentation, poppers, sliders, worm flies.

Hey, congrats on the "Switch"! Soon you'll be walking the beach with both set ups!

I'll preface my suggestions by saying that I come from a background of traditional flyfishing, having fished for trout, small and large mouth bass for many years before I began striper fishing. My comments are NOT intended to attack on all you guys out there who fish intermediate and sinking lines! I use them too, but it is not always my first choice. What I have learned is that I haven't had to change any of my techniques and equipment, other than to upgrade my rods and reels. So, I still use a floating line. I have always had a preferance for long rods, so I have a 10'-6" 8 weight that comfortably casts a 10 weight line and an 11/12 Teton Tioga reel on it. I'll explain this set up a bit later, as it's not what you will be sold in a store, but there is a logic to it.

First, the line. Why do I like a floating line? First, it is the most versitile line out there and it is also the easiest to cast. When I say versitile, I mean that you have many presentation alternatives. You can cast and strip, which is sort of the technique de jour. But you can also mend the line so that your fly is always drag free as it drifts in the current. This enables you to always keep in touch with the fly and feel those very subtle takes. You can do many different kinds of casts, such as roll casts, slack line casts, etc. which have appropriate applications in the salt. By adding split shot to your leader, you can get the fly down into the water column in a conrtolled and measurable manner, and it gets down faster than a sinking line. From a boat, to get the line down to a particualr depth, if the split shot isn't working, then add a sinking shooting head. Salmon and steelhead fishermen have been dojng this for years from boats in big water and in the ocean.

By being able to mend the line, I can actively mange the line. I can do up current presentations, wet fly swings and I can cast across currents of varying speeds and still keep the drift drag free. In the surf and in the rocks, by mending or lifting the line up and over a breaking wave, I can keep the fly where I want it, and am not be subject to the whim of the drag of the breaking waves.

Because I like to mend the line, I use a longer rod. The long rod enables me to lift and move more line at a time and I can get up and over taller waves (like 5' tall once you get the hang of it.).

I also like a softer rod. No more than a medium fast flex. This is because the rod loads easier than a fast action rod and in turn contributes substantially to the ease of casting the line. I would much rather have my fly rod do the work than have to feel like I'm having to throw the line with my arm, as you have to do with many of the fast action rods of today. (There are now published studies that show that a softer rod will generate more line speed and throw the line further than a fast rod.)

On to the reel. My prime criteria for buying a reel is to balance to rod. When the reel, loaded with line and backing, is on the rod, I like it to feel as though the rod will balance under my ring finger, when I am holding the rod as I would to make a cast. This puts the pivot point of the cast inside your hand. The casts become less tiring.

Line weight. Most rods today are capable of handling lines as high as 2 weights higher than their published ratings. Surprisingly, they often cast better as well (I call it fast rod syndrome). When you are buying a rod/reel set up, ask the sales person to set you up with three reels to try out. The line weight as published on the rod, and two reels with the next two weights up. This is called uplining or overlining. Try them all out and see which one feels most comfortable. My experience working with people starting out is that at least one or two line weights up makes it easier to cast, because the line is really helping load the rod.

Actual equipment. Look for a medium fast action rod. Today, these rods are the "beginner" rods. Don't be put off by that. They work just fine. And they are less expensive. Mostly, you find 9' rods. Orivis, LL Bean, Temple Fork. Redington makes a sweet "intro" rod. I have found one inexpensive 10'-6" rod made by Heritage that is a beauty that won't cost you an arm and a leg. (If you're intersted, PM me and I can tell you how to contact the manufacturer. He doesn't do alot of advertising....). I caught a 43" striper this fall on one of his 7" 3 weights. Had no problem handling and landing the fish! They are tough rods!

I like Teton reels. Their drag is fully sealed and they are a whole lot less than other reels with fully sealed drags. Unlike, some reels that I know of, if you accidently drop you rod in the sand, you can rinse it off and keep on going....

Flies: Rays flies, all sizes. Rays fly flatwings, all sizes. Have some deceivers or flatwings that are all yellow or yellow/charteuse top, especially for bright days or where the water is discolored. Same flies with blue, purple and black in them for cloudy days. I have had great luck with simple olive/white, blue white, pink/white combinatins. I happen to love black on top/purple bottom flies for night time, especually if they are big (12") long flatwings or eel punts. As a personal preference, I like flies that are tied very sparse, allowing the materials to expand and move in the water. I tie a clouser that a friend of mine introduced me to that he calls his Shameless Hooker that is a KILLER! All synthetic with big red eyes. If a jigging action is required, that's my go to pattern. (I'll throw this with a light tackle spinning rod) Always carry a few shrimp pattern (General Practitioner or something based on a Crazy Charlie) and some worm hatch patterns (small wiggly stuff tied in orange thru pink), and the usual Crease Flies.

What's interesting, is that the proven basic colors that you use for plugging are all proven color combinations for fly fishing, so draw from that experience.

Fly fishing does take practice, especially if you want to learn how to actively manage your fly line. It's rewards can be tremendous! But don't be afraid to bring your spinning gear along with you. The object is to catch fish. I know that there have been times that if I had not had my spinning gear with me, I would have been skunked! Fish on!

;) Steelhead:cool:

Excellent article:happy: :happy:

This spring... I live in Salem, MA. Always lookking for a partner.

We might be able to hook up once or twice. How much notice do ya need??? I stay pretty busy chartering but invite people out time to time.
I do allot of bait fishing.
Even tho I do fly fishing and have for the past 20+ years I'm known as the" Unorthodox Flyfisherman" I go aganist the rules of flyfishing, no tapered leaders. slap my line on the water and don't sneak up on fish and have a terrible cast, hook myself more then fish on a very windy day. Other then that I do O.K.

I mean, like, OH My God!, NO tapered leader???? You sond like me! At least you don't loose fish! You don't have to cast pretty. It's the fish catchin' that counts!

Would love to hook up a few times. I'm known for my impluse, short notice forays.... GIve me a holler! Would ove to try bait fishing. Never done it! Always wanted to.

I'm not sure how upstream presentations and mending line has much to do with saltwater fly fishing out of a boat, which is what Caffeine asked about. Assuming Caffeine wants to increase his chances of catching fish, the most important presentation aspect is vertical, getting down to the fish.

Even when fish are showing on top, there are many times that number down deep.

You haven't done bait fishin ?? Ya must do lures and fly fishin.

I just started lure fishing. Bought a couple from #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. I'll try them this year. Might be able to keep my hands out of that nasty old bait. Have to use bleach or lemon juice on the hands once in a while.

We will hook up hopefully when the big ones are in. May is good.

Fly Rod, Great! May sounds good. New moon on about the 19th or so. Just got some of SB's plugs as well. Can't wait to weta line while there are fish around.

Roger, I like fishing with sinking lines, too.There are specific situations where I will use a sinking line in order to fish a certain way or to address a certain situation. But for me, ultimately, a sinking line is less versitile.

I agree that vertical is important and that there are often fish feeding under breaking fish. Sometimes there's a trail of them several hundred yards long feeding on the dead and injured fish down current of where the action is! But, in order to deal with the vertical, you have to address current and how that affects your fly as it passes thru and travels thru the water column. There are all kinds of current around boats. If you are anchored and fishing the rocks, the waves generate current. If you are fishing the beach breaks, the wave action generates current. in both cases, ther is often current running parallel to shore. Even off shore, there are currents. Whether it's from a boat or from shore, if you can read and fish currents, mend line, you can keep your fly in front of feeding fish longer and create more opportunities to catch fish. As far as getting down to the fish. I have done timed tests. A long leader with split shot attached to a floating line will get a fly down to a fish faster than a sinking line. And if there is current, I can mend the line and keep the fly 8' down in the strike zone in front of a fish instead of the current sweeping the fly away as would happen with a sinking line. If I need to get deeper, I use a sink tip and I can still control my line.

As far as casting "upstream" from a boat. If my boat is drifting toward a pod of feeding fish, I can cast "upstream" into a pod of fish and keep my fly suspended in the pod at a specific depth while mending and managing my line as the boat drifts by the fish. At any time, I can easliy pick up the entire line up out of the water and reposition my fly if need be. These are all tried and true saltwater techniques that have been used since the 50's and their roots lie in the rich heritage of trout and salmon fishing, as these were the pioneers of saltwater fly fishing.

Take the time to learn of its heritage and the older proven techniques. I guarantee you, you will catch more fish because you have become a more versitile fisherman. And isn't this what it's all about? Hunting and catching fish!

Originally posted by steelhead
Take the time to learn of its heritage and the older proven techniques. I guarantee you, you will catch more fish because you have become a more versitile fisherman.

Um..excuse me? You may want to reconsider the lecture because clearly you know nothing of my experience. I am already very proficient at those techniques and after 35 years of fly fishing might actually be able to teach you a few new ones. This thread however was about a guy just starting fly fishing from a boat. You were making something pretty simple sound pretty complicated to a beginner.

Boat fishing is a different animal than fishing from shore or the rocks. Once I realized that and let go of my traditional trout fishing inspired conventions my success improved dramatically. When my guests on board do the same, their success improves as well.

Feel free to fish any way that you like, however telling a newbie that they need to concentrate on learning upstream presentations and using a floating line to fish from a boat is poor advice.

Roger, You and I could go on pissing at each other all night about this, but that won't accomplish anything. I have prefaced everything that I have suggested by saying that my perspective is based on fishing in saltwater using traditional SW techniques, which include floating line, and I have given specific examples as to why I feel so. Our experience with beginning fishermen is obviously very different. I have found that a beginning fisherman, even from a boat, can cast a floating line easier and can still get their line down into the feeding zone by using a split shot and/or sink tips. It gives you THE OPTION of either casting and stripping or presenting the fly in a controlled natural manner, whisch is extremely difficult with a sinking line as there is drag on the entire line.

Beginners that I have worked with are also very hungry to get connected with the roots of SW flyfishing and to learn where it has come from and how to do it. I have talked to many people over the past year who gave up fly finshing because they thought it was too one dimensional and too much like spin fishing. Upon further inquiry, I have always been told that the only techniques they had been taught were cast and strip clousers or deceivers with sinking lines or poppers with intermediate lines, etc. To me that says that something is missing in the equation.

I congratualte you on your success with sinking lines and your success with your clients. I hope you continue to catch many more fish in the future. Peace, Skyomish

Look !!!
When people give advice you have to read between the lines.
You yourself have to experiment being new to fly fishing and when I say you I don't mean you Roger I mean any new guy as you.

1st I don't agree with you about the Pflueger Medalist. I have owned a half dozen of them about $40.00 AND that is just what they are worth. Excellent in freah water but s--k in salt water. They will pit up instantly. I have a Cortland 200 which they stopped making cost $100.00

2nd A $100.00 rod does not compare to a good Sage Rpxl or an Orvis.

I agree with you about lines. Intermediate and a sinking line is a must here on Cape Ann. Brand is a matter of preferance. I use an Orvis Depth Charge. Would not have any other, but that is my preferance and the grain matches my #10 weight. And that is a good all around weight for stripers.

Anybody starting out in fly fishing is going to spend allot of money in the long run to get comfortabably suited.

Also I don't completly agree with steelhead. BUT IT WAS A GOOD ARTICLE. It was an all around article. Today people want you to take them by the hand and do there home work for them, what type of gear do I need;show me your fishing spots Etc Etc.

A floating line is not my preferance. An intermediate line will do the same thing even when using poppers just have to start moving it when it hits the water. I use a full sinking line in just 10' of water sometimes.

My finger tips are getting sore:smash: :smash:

Keep em coming. Outstanding. From reading all the well thought out advice you guys definitely have a passion for the sport. My fishing fever was in remission…….until now.

The reason that I went to lure fishing, and tried to dump bait, was for the challenge and the purist aspect. There is something about lure fishing where you become more of a better fisherman and start to understand better how they feed and hunt. You guys are definitely at the next level.

Over the years of fly fishing my little experience has shown me that flyfishermen out fish fresh water fishermen

Salt water fishermen out fish fly fishermen and catch more fish in a day of fishing.

Over the years of fly fishing my little experience has shown me that flyfishermen out fish fresh water fishermen

Salt water fishermen out fish fly fishermen and catch more fish in a day of fishing.

Hey caffeine !! Most fly shops will have an area for you to try out flyrods on there property. Take a day when you have some time and try out the rods You have plenty of time to go fishing.

And when your ready to buy Close your eyes and take out your charge card.

Steelhead:
I'm not interested in a pissing contest. It's just when someone makes personally condescending remark at me I set the record straight. Obviously, I've been where you are now in the saltwater scene and have progressed passed it. Though I admit that I still need to get my fix of trout fishing where I choose to limit myself to floating lines and dry flies.

Fly Rod:
No need to get excited with all the !!! I guess I am just not into all the elitist thinking that you have to spend lots of money to fly fish. The guy's criteria are that he wants to fly fish for not too much money. It might be more productive if you actually gave him some advice instead of just crapping on mine.

Also, your response about TFO’s $100 fly rods not casting well simply shows that you have not used one. That company has redefined the standard of price and performance. Of course lumping Sage’s fine casting tools and Whorvis’ overpriced and underperforming rods odd in and of itself. You don't need to take my word for it, you can just ask Lefty.

BTW, at the Martha's Vineyard C&R tournament last year 90% of the participants were skunked. It was a classic dark and stormy night. It was my first trip to the island and my partner's second. We caught fish. I used a TFO 8wt and my partner (who I just met that day) was using an old Medalist. So I stand by my advice.

I agree that Steelhead’s writing was a good article, but it was not good advice. It’s as if Caffeine asked the time and Steelhead wrote an article about how he feels about clocks.

All of this would be much more fun if we were fishing. You guys ever in Rhode Island? I’d be happy to take you all out. Just bring a good sense of humor and an open mind, this is just fishing after all.

Hey Roger,
I've promised myself to get down to Rhode Isalnd at least once a week this summer. I'll pop you an email when I head tour way. And I'll bet you are right that you can teach this old dog a few more tricks! :-)
Skyomish

Originally posted by steelhead
And I'll bet you are right that you can teach this old dog a few more tricks! :-)

That kind of stuff always goes both ways. I'll be happy to have ya.

1st I'm far from an elitest. I don't consider myself more superior then others. Equall "YES"

2nd As I said earlier I'm difinitely the most "unorthordox flyfisher"
and tye some of the most terible looking flies that will scare most fish away.

My experience with fly rods:

Bought and used a St. Croix for 3days. To me "junk", somebody else may think they are the best. took it back to kittery trading post.

bought and used an Orvis western series "Wasn't for me" Took it back.

Bought an Orvis and liked it. It is what I use in fresh water.

Tried a few more rods for salt water and ended up buying a Sage. Almost bought a redington life time warranty too.

Pflueger reels They are ment for" FRESH WATER" $40.00 cheap they serve the purpose. 40.00 x6= 240.00= one good reel that will last allot longer when in salt water.

OH ! do have an old rod with no name .Probably an old Sears.

When I do my fresh water fishing I don't try to match the hatch anymore .To me a waste of time. I tye ugly #4 muddlers which seem to work for me. One fly does it all.

Oops !!! Post office is open have to go mail some flies:happy: :happy: