Thinking of getting a new sand sled.

My Rover, at just under 90K miles, is requiring a lot of attention as of late and I think it's time to get rid of it or relegate it to short trips to the supermarket.

Need your input...with the following contraints in mind:

1) No Japanese makes. I just won't buy Japanese cars.

2) The Mrs. does not want me to get a pickup truck, as much as I'd like one.

3) It's got to be competent on the beach (4WD).

4) Not really looking at the luxury brands. They (for the most part) suck on the beach. I've also had it with paying a premium for parts and service (and the attitude that a lot of these import dealers have).

I'm leaning towards leasing a new Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD. They're comfy, are multi-purpose (good enough for fishing) and mechanically reliable, and reasonably-priced, and, being switchable 2WD/4WD, don't hog nearly as much gas as as my Disco I which is perma 4WD.

I heard these are the most frequently stolen vehicles. :(

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, I'm not a car expert by any measure.

-WW

Just curious, why no Japanese cars? I have a 94 4-runner, over 100k, I've driven it from San Franciscso to Mass, taking a month to roam around the country. Runs like a dream!

just got rid of the mrs 2001 grand cherokee with 37000miles and a burned out transmission.. jeep said that the sensors let go and subsequently smoked her tranny.. she never did off road, and just drove it normally.. always maintained it..

but i have heard many many horror storries about their transmissions letting go..

Why lease when 6 or 7k can get you into a really nice Jeep!

S10 Blazer!! I had 2 and the drive the beach great!! 4.6 motor!! Do not go with anything that has the 2.8!!!
They have a shift on the fly for the 4WD. It is a great Beach buggy and easy on the gas.

Good Luck

Originally posted by Bliz
Why lease when 6 or 7k can get you into a really nice Jeep!

I don't want to assume the risks (=costs) of ownership. I'd rather rent and have the dealer/leasing company deal with the warranty/maintenance issues.

-WW

I give the GC a big thumbs up, get the 4.0 inline 6, if you do go for one. Do it soon, last year for those, as we know them.

I knew I liked you Joe. I love my S 10 blazer ZR2. Great on the Vineyard beaches. Has the big wheels and 4 wheel drive. Only issue might be that it is only 2 doors. By the way, I tow my 22 ft Hydra-Sports with it.

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
Just curious, why no Japanese cars?

We didn't nuke those bastards twice for nuttin'.

Porsche Cayenne

buy my truck and be hunted like a wild animal

Krispy,

Some guy tried to convince me that the Volvo SUV (or was it VW) was functionally similar to the Porsche SUV.

Believe it or not, I thought I saw one last Fall in P-town, sporting rods (NY plates).

:laughs:

VW is very similar to the porsche. If I had my choice of new sleds it'd be the Toureg

Porsche on the beach. Yikes. Nouveau riche or no?

Originally posted by Krispy
VW is very similar to the porsche. If I had my choice of new sleds it'd be the Toureg

Are you being serious, man? :confused:

DUH!!! Posche, VW and Audi are like Chevy, Pontiac, and Buick...

I wouldn,t do a jeep =for free =every preson I know that has owned one =has had problems =============================why is it in the 4wd section of the classifieds =there are more jeeps than everthing else put together // not because they sell more :smash:

WW,
FWIW, I been driving a Chevy silverado for four years now. Currently has 120,000 on it and no major problems. The 1500 Suburban is basically the same truck. Does very well in the sand.

After the Nissan Titan

I like my 03 Silverado LESS than my 98 F150. I think the Ford is the better product. Probably the only reason I have the Chevy now is that it was the end of the old F150 run and too new for the new style. You need space and comfort and rod stashability, the GC is still small compared to a Tahoe or Expedition. It may be worth investigating the Tritan's SUV counterpart too. Or perhaps middle ground with an Avalance. Get a Hummer and we'll slash your tires.

Leasing is a terrible option for you as you drive too many miles and will put beyond normal wear and tear than a lease will be happy with. Maintenance and warranty are no different when buying and leasing and are still entirely the responsibility of the buyer. Macht Nichts.

As for no Japanese, are you taking your turn at NOT further increasing the defecit?

My 96 Gr Cherokee is a great sand sled.

It started as a 96 but it's got alot of newer parts so it's more like a 99 & a half. I've replaced the radiator, compressor, condenser, bus bar, water pump, fuel pump, heater core, blower, transmission, differential.

I'm afraid to change the oil.

I know you rockhoppers are a sensitive bunch, so don't take this the wrong way - cause I really have thought of this, and it wouldn't be too hard.
When I get too geeky or something to run my boat, I will retire to shore fishing - it's bound to be.
And the coolest sand sled would be an old Caddy hearse. Put it on a Chevy p/u frame, and then customize the crap out of it - think of the possibilities. It's not for everybody, but it would be a cool project.

Bill

John,

I think leasing is the way to go.

In dollar penalty terms, I was only in the hole for about $2,000 for overmileage on my lease when it was due to be turned in.

I mistakenly bought my truck out of the lease, and the result is that I've spent well over $8,000 in repairs (broken alternator, new set of tires, new set of wheel bearings, rebuilt one hub, new oilpan gasket, new engine valve cover, numerous suspension and axle repairs, and most recently new shocks, steering damper, and today three O2 sensors).

I think I have to rebuild the tranny too, which is another $4,000 (that's the cheapest!) and I'm scared to ask what replacing the diffy is gonna cost.

This despite religious dealer servicing and oil changes and just plain old taking care of it. The damn things should be called "Leak Rovers." They leak from every possible orifice.

My truck is just not very well built or mechanically reliable, and I would urge anyone out there to steer clear of Land Rovers, unless they love to tinker underneath the hood.

So everything is relative...I would have been better off paying the overmileage penalty and getting a newer sled.

-WW

I had good luck with my blazer til it got 8 years old. that's not bad. It goes great in the snad and i have had to tow a lot of guys out of holes with it. Much better than most in soft sand.

Also my sister has a ford explorer that is a bigger vehicle than the mid 90's explorer was. Its pretty nice but not sure what it would do in the sand.

Personally I would never lease for a couple of reasons. You will always have a car payment versus buying it will be yours after you are done with your payments. You have to watch you miles and you will always be paying higher taxes because you will always have a car that is relatively new(if that applies to your state I am not sure). I do not have one but I like the the Ford Explorers the best. Just my 2 cents.

Ben, i LOVE my durango. 8 cylinders of gas guzzling power. she is 6 years old now, and, besides the basic upkeep, has been great. i little TLC here and there is all that is needed. i just noticed the 1st pinhole of rust last fall. not bad for the 3rd complete season on the beach. as much as i hated the new design of the durangos at first, i may trade in for a new one when this girl finally dies.

:ss:

I have a 99 suburbon 1500 that handles real nice on the beach.Ialso have a Jeep Grd Cherokee that my wife drives ,that for the past 4 years has been my main ride on the beach with no problems at all ( I'm sure I just jinxed myself with that statement). the only reason for the GMC was size more room for more fishing stuff. I'ld say go for the Jeep its better on Gas.

Dodge Durango. That thing got a Hemi.

Everyone has their favorites and opions on this one....If a H2 is out of the question :) ...I like my Yukon XL, you don't have to get the XL lenght and you don't have to get the lux interior of the denali...has pleanty of power for towing and sledding and better ground clearence then most and a good turning dia. It has more room then the jeep, better visibility and is very easy to drive, your wife will love it.
It is made in the US (GMC) and is reasonably priced.
Gas mileage stinks but you don't buy this for commuting into the city.

I looked at the H2 but could not convice the wife, she thought it went agaist my "low profile" lifestyle. I need to fit in out here not stand out. ( I think she was right but they are boss vehicle!)

theres a reason why theres so many s-10 blazers around still and i know Bcuz i'm still driving an 85 and will get a newer one soon. the ford expeditions have been used for plowing snow quite a bit so they are tough trucks. the jeep is good for traction true...but the horror stories far out weigh the good luck stories i think. think of the s-10 as a jeep on steroids that has a super low 1rst gear which is great in sand when the going gets tough. i've driven mine through 4 feet of snow with ease.

Bah! Rovers, Hummers...give me a break.
I was at the gas station the other day and this guy with a Hummer came in and asked why the pump shut off....The clerk told him it automatically shut off at $50.
S_ _ _ that's the same price as a pair of K-1000 Korkers.

Give up the sand fishing and become a Rhody mountain goat fisherman. Get yourself an little electric hybrid and fish on the cheap. Take the extra money and become an even bigger tackle-ho.

Ben, if you buy a truck right, say an Avalanche within 400 of invoice (not hard to do on most vehicles), get the 3500 rebate plus the 1K bonus cache, skip the dealer F&I and got to your bank and get 4-4.5% for 48 months and BUY it, you will do better trading it in at 3 years for something NEW then by leasing. The trick is that getting the $4500 in rebates, throwing some downstroke, and taking advantage of 4% financing, you're payment will be close to that of a lease unless the vehicle has a high residual value (high lease residual vehicles do not make good "Sand Sleds" :laughs: ). After 3 years with one year left you flip it into a new car. If you lease you are not getting all the incentives and the cheap rate financing available now (auto leases typicaly won't disclose their internalized rates or what you are buying the car for and they get to cushion their bottom line as you negotiate payment and not "buy" price). So at the end of 3 years or so you pay 2K+ in overmileage fees plus any dents, nicks, tires, and scratches, then you need to come up with another 2-3K downstroke and start the entire lease process over again on a different vehicle.

Trust me, leasing is not a good fit for you. Buying is. If you were getting a car to drive 15 miles round trip per day to the commuter rail and once a month to the mom-in-law's house leasing would be OK. You are not a good lease candidate.

Thanks John, I'll look closer into the economics of lease vs. buy.

BTW, you can back out the lease rate from the monthly payment if you have a financial calculator, as long as you know the residual value (which obviously he has to disclosed by law), the term of the lease, and the capital cost reductions (down payment).

I've pissed off more than one sales manager by nitpicking the numbers.

-B

I had an S-10 Blazer that I used on the beach for years. The nice thing about it compared to some others of similar size (i.e., Durango) is that it has a tail gate rather than a lift gate, which I like as a surface for working on rods and gear. Has more clearance than some of the older Explorers, good power in the Vortec. However, I found it too small for all my junk. Also the non-slip differential went on it at about 60,000 miles.

If you buy a used 4x4, make SURE it has a non-slip differential AND that it actually works. They're expensive to fix when (not if) they go.

Recently upgraded to a Ram 1500 quad cab and I love it. Can use the quad space for extra passengers or to keep easy access to gear rather than in the bed. The bed is over 6 feet (6.25 feet) so you can catch a bit of sleep if need be (no Rangers heard me say that). Great clearance, but the hemi is a gas-pig.

The Ford 150 off road seems to have a bit higher profile than the dodge 1500 off road package.

Have you looked at the Tahoe? They look like they would make a fine beach buggy. I bet you can be into one for about 27-28

Yeah Bruce, the Tahoe's are schweet and just a tad more manageable than the Burban's. Very roomy and you can sleep in them. But I was thinking of something just a tad smaller and more fuel efficient.

My recommendation would be either an S10 Blazer, a Dodge Durango, or even a GMC Envoy/Chevy Trail Blazer (the last 2 a bit larger than the S10 model).

As I posted earlier, my S10 blazer did well for me for several years. I still have it (gave it to my daughter), has 125,000 on it and the engine is still running well. I have had some problems with body rust (who hasn't that runs the beaches). It has drum brakes in the rear and the sand seems to gunk them up over time too. Also, I had the electronic 4-wheel drive go on me and lock into permanent 4-wheel low. I (with the help of the Barnstable fire department) got it "hardwired" back into 2-wheel low for the ride home...but that was a pain!

I only would go with a manual 4-wheel shifter now.

I know how much gear you pack, get the Tahoe not something smaller. The 4.8 is decent on mileage isn't it? Or do you want a foreign vehicle like an Isuzzu or toyota? Popperjohn is selling his 4runner for 5 grand.

Bruce, gonna try to stick to an American nameplate. Sick of spending a premium on import parts and service.

Ben,

I don`t have a recommend but I`m in the business and have heard a ton of horror stories about the Jeep Grand Cherokees...

I`m considering a Toyota Tacoma even with the frame warnings related to salt.....I need a daily commuter to, that gets decent mileage....I might look at a high mileage lease.


Good luck...some good info. on this post.

Confused yet wee-wee? ;)

I don't like the newer Tahoes as much as I do the previous generation, but if ya do, get the barn doors, that I know you will like! 'Course you could upgrade and get the Denali, or the Escalade, which is just the Tahoe, with Yuppie trimmings ;)

WeeWee - my point about the disclosure is that seeing most people can't do that their have less incentive to negotiate on it. Again, the premise behind a lease is to negotiate the payments.

I've heard the new Envoy's are a little soft in the sand. As for economy, I bet my 4.8 V8 get's better mileage than your Land Lubber. Since the fuel blends stopped using "Winter Blend" fuels, ny fuel economy has popped up 2 MPG average in the past week where I'm now averaging 18+ mix city/highway. On Highway trips I can knock on 20MPG when not running AC. Not bad for a fullsize truck

you might consider having a tacoma sprayed from underneath while up on a lift and still brand new metal some of that undercoating aligator skin or rhino hide ? what ever it is...... as an alternative.

Hey Wee Wee do yourdelf a big favor and pick up a copy of Consumer reports before you buy.

As for getting a domestic I can understand that even though I sell Toyota's but also do yourself a favor and look at the parts content of anything you consider. I think you would be very unhappy with the amount of parts that they use from Mexico, China etc etc in a domestic.

If you need any help with anything let me know. Even if you would never consider a Toyota I would be happy to share info I have access to to help you find what will work best for you. ask Bliz how I do buisness and you will know that I would not steer you wrong.

KL

I wish someone would make a 4wd mini-van.

Originally posted by capesams
I wish someone would make a 4wd mini-van.

they do or at lest they did.. the VW Syncro-

Ben- Buy a Tacoma 4x4 and you'll never see your mechanic agian.....

Plus they're made in virginia:D

Ben you may want to look at the Explorer, I think it's just the size you want. Me expidition is 7 years old , with 120,000, only major problem has been the alternator last summer, and about 800 in front end work a couple of months ago.

Buy My truck Ben.......
It raises fish:D

Ok My 2cents

Overall Toyota makes by far the best Vehicles on the planet right now

FW & BC own the Izuzu Rodeos??? (4 door version) and they are suprising on the room inside and are by far the best riding Sleds I have ever ridden in

I would have to look at the H2 but it is way out of my money range

4 wheel drive Van is the most functional I have ever ridden in but are rare

S-10 Blazers are tiny and I think you will go nuts losing all that room

Damn they need to bring Back the V-1500 plain old Big boys

Suberbans are the sack but are bery large

"I wish someone would make a 4wd mini-van."

The old Mazda MPV's offered real 4wd I believe (not awd).



Anyone read anything about the new Chevy Equinox? Looks like another AWD suv from what I have seen.

Originally posted by JohnR
I bet my 4.8 V8 get's better mileage than your Land Lubber. Since the fuel blends stopped using "Winter Blend" fuels, ny fuel economy has popped up 2 MPG average in the past week where I'm now averaging 18+ mix city/highway. On Highway trips I can knock on 20MPG when not running AC. Not bad for a fullsize truck

I'm locked into permament 4WD, so there's no question you're getting better mileage. I'm getting 13 gallons to the mile. ;)

Good info on this thread, I didn't know the Jeep Cherokees had so many problems.

Suburbans are the sack???
Bite yer tongue.
LATER,
rICK

The Nissan was motor trends 4 wheel truck of the yr .the Crew cab P/U just beat out the ford.My dream vehicle is the Ford Van with the Quigley conversion.I will own one, the next truck. got bout 7 yrs to go.Set up ur bunk, tackle shop, no rods outside the vehicle, easy in an out,live bait in the back.I don't know why people bother with any thing else.I seen Bill Wetzel tryin to sleep on top of his tackle in his Tahoe.It wasn't pretty.

QUIGLEY4X4.COM :D

http://www.radiosonline.com/images/truck3.jpg

You can pull everyone else out when they get stuck :D

I own a Envoy SLT also....airbag rear end with a posi rocks...

I will take my 85 Jeep CJ-7 any day......top off...."anywhere". In a word...."FUN". Great in the sand. With the swapped 318 Chrysler engine it has great power and flies on the highway to get me to sand city quicker! If I had to buy a new vehicle for myself, I would either buy a new Jeep Rubicon.....or the new up-coming Jeep Limited which is a newer version of the old Jeep Scrambler. Looks pretty nice and I am gonna check them out! Good Luck FWW!:D :ss:

Just took a look over at Edmunds, the GC with the 4.0 gets high marks. I know a lot of people that own one, are on their second, or third, and swear by them. Seen several with more than 200K on them, with happy owners.

One thing to keep in mind, all brands have their reputations, and all brands break at some point, if they didn't, parts stores and mechanics would have nothing to do.

I'm sure your doing the web-auto review thing, and the tire kicking. Not a fun process. Whatever you get has to fit you.
Mid-full size SUV, the one thing I would stay away from, and it looks like they will all go that way soon enough, is the Independent Rear Axle, yes it does give a better ride, but those control arms look like they would be constantly plowing sand, where I go.

My wife has a 97 Expedition with 90 K on it, battery, tires, brakes, one O2 sensor, and oil changes, she saw the new ones, and (whew!) does not like them, 'cause they sit a lot lower than hers.. Independent rear axle helps them get lower for the insurance companies mandates. She has her reasons, I got mine ;)

My F150 is a 98 with 80K on it, tires, one brake line, altenator, and a front axle accuator, $40 part, but took a month to get!, and oil changes. Biggest cripe I have is that the 150 cab is a LOT smaller than the full sized half ton cabs on the Chebby and Dodge.

My son is on his second Jeep, GC 93 with 38 K (YES, that is why he bought it, had 31 on it when he bought it), I threaten to repo it at least once a week, 'cause I love it. I had it all day yesterday, he was peesed, took the keys away from me last night :crying:

Chevy Trailblazer. 2004 17" tires, 285 horse 6cyl and 18mpg. I pull a 6000lb Fleetwood travel trailer back and forth to the Cape at 70. Runs great on the beach, but not this year.

WeeWee-

What year is your Disco? I have a 2001 Disco and a 2002 Suburban. I had always heard that the LR's suck but being the stick in the mud I am, bought one anyhow. Currently it has 97K on it and besides some minor waranty work from the get go it has been pretty darn good, nothing besides routine maintence. I do however know any LR that is before 1999 is a joke, lucas electronics leaks like a sive etc etc.

My Landrover is much more reliable than the Suburban as a matter a fact. My Burban, in the shop right now, has been a proverbial nightmare. Blown Transmission at 40K, Fuel punp seals 2-3 times requiring new pumps each time, Brakes ever 20Kmiles. and some freak casting for the transfercase that blows fluid over 60mph (why its in the shop know) etc etc. It too has 95K on it and who knows what is going to rear its ugly head next. Granted, I do love the truck as i can not find anything similar I am conviced this one is a bad apple of the bunch as my previous 1997 Tahoe went 187K with only minor issues.

I do not think the perfect truck/suv exists.

get a VW bus and paint it multi colored with a peace sign and beeds all around the insdie with fuzzy dice . That should prove your no yuppie . Oh yeah grow some hair !

get a 4X4 van . then you can have the weewee motel . "you can enter but you cant leave "

Trayder, your Rover is probably a series II manufactured when BMW owned the Rover nameplate. So you might have gotten a slightly better product.

Mine is a Series I Disco ('99).

However, all Rovers suck according to JD Power. Land Rovers rank near dead-last for mechanical reliability.

Just wait a few more miles...you'll see what I mean.

-WW

Originally posted by fishweewee
Just wait a few more miles...you'll see what I mean.

-WW


:eek: :eek: I hope not :eek: :eek:

my 96 grand cherokee gets me from attleboro to narragansett 4 times a week (2 times in the off season) no problem. 147K on the chrysler 318 (same as the dodges) and still runs like a champ. unfortunately, some jeeps are lemons, but for the most part they are a good reliable ride. I do have to say that the all time 4wd is not to my liking, but I believe that you can get either or.
if u wanna REAL sand sled get a K5 blazer with the 350 and jacked to the sky:D

chris

How about a Mercedes UNIMOG??? :ss:

Ben Buy My truck:D

Jeep Grand Cherokee---I've had one since 2000---five of my freinds have had them for at least 5 years. None of us has had any of the problems mentioned. Comfort, reliability, easy parts.
I would recommend Select-Trac --switchable to 2 wheel drive.:)

On our second Jeep Grand Cherokee (2000)now. My daughter has one (also a 2000). Other than problems with the front brake rotors on my daughters', we've all been very happy with them. I've heard they corrected the brake rotor problems. I also agree on the Selec-Trac for switching from 2WD - 4WD or also AWD. Very economical with the 4.0L.
We wont talk about the mileage in my Dodge Ram.:yak: :doh:

Engine warning light went off again this morning. Third time in six days, this will be my third trip back to the dealer.

Will be car shopping this weekend I think.

small piece of black electrical tape, right over the check engine light, works everytime

this is the sand sled for you Ben

:laughs:

Does it wear korkers?

I would never consider a Jeep Grand Cherokee after owning one. After about a month the water pump started leaking. Within a year the fuel pump died. It was about 2 or 3 years old when the tranny started slipping in between shifts in cold weather. I was happy to see it go. My wife drove it on road. She didn't like it. She replaced it with a Hyundai Sante Fe which she loves.

On the other hand, my 1999 Toyota Tacoma has 155, 000 miles on it and I replaced the tires once, had it tuned up once and changed the oil in it every 4 or 5 thousand miles. Still runs great! It might need some front brake pads in the near future.

Originally posted by fishweewee
Engine warning light went off again this morning. Third time in six days, this will be my third trip back to the dealer.

Will be car shopping this weekend I think.

Just remember, there's no bigger oxymoron in the automotive world than "British reliability" :laughs:

I just went over 100K in my Grand Cherokee this morning. Spend the $300 for aftermarket front rotors once the factory ones warp. Other than that, zero problems.

1973 Land Rover Series III. Runs better than my GMC......Except for the gas gauge:gf:

I traded the Suburban for a 350 Econoline 14 pass I only got 26K I would have rather sold it to you this van will pay for it self just like the suburban my first night out saturday bachorlerette party 11 Drunk Girls oh Boy!!!:happy: :happy: :D

Buy My Truck You Yuppy SOB:mad:

oh just buy a toyota already and you can put an end to your problems!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by bassmaster
Buy My Truck You Yuppy SOB:mad:

Clean up ya effin chit stains on the seats and you could be permitted to dispose of it at the local junkyard and not a hazwaste facility. :bshake:

What Jenn said! LOL

KL

Happy with my Toyota, T-100(pre-Tundra), also! I've got over 178,000 miles on it and thats mostly from drving from Boston to South County and beach driving. No complaints:)

I drove my 94 GC with the 318 in it for 213,000 miles before a deer totalled it for me. Never had a problem with it except for the dreaded brake issue. The thing ran like a tank right up to the day the insurance company came and took it away. The only reason I didn't get another was the interior space was a tad too small.

I like chris' idea with the hippie bus. LOL Rick

Be Hunted like a barn Yard animal Ben.......
Buy It from Me................................................ .....

"Squeal like a pig, boy..."

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....


Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....


Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....

Oranges and apples these days.
American cars with mexican parts or Japanese cars made in the U.S.

My Toyota pickup was made in Kentucky.
My Corolla was made in Canada.
The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe are made in the same factory in California.

Ben Got My truck Back today.
Ralph does great work:)

still got a jimmy 1994 4x4 going, racked up mad miles, never had a problem with it except for the godforesaken occasional EGR valve crapping out with carbon deposits... once had a fuel injector replaced but that was a byproduct of the EGR valve chittin' the bed real fast...

anyhow, still using my jimmy, it works, it runs, and im thinking about tradin' up to a newer jimmy, i want a 4door pickup jimmy