According to this gov report. N.E. has surpassed ot goal for the piping plover. If this is the case, why are we still closing beaches?

http://pipingplover.fws.gov/status/index.html

Because the bigger they get....the better eatin' they are.:drool:

Here are the real problems...

yum

There you go Sandman....I have been saying that for a long time! We close the beaches so the plover nests are safe and the young hatch, and then the damn foxes just eat them after all is said and done!:smash:

I also must add that they are a beautiful bird.:)

The preditors like these too!

I was talking to a CCNS Ranger not to long ago and he mentioned with more PLovers than ever, some of the Plover Types will want to close more ORV access than ever to "protect" these birds. I would be afraid of accelerated loss of access....

it's coming for sure. The only good thing is is that is stops EVERYONE from access.

a few more weeks and it will all be over

Sad part is, it has never been about the piping plover, they are a pawn to close the beaches... this much has been admitted to me off the record, in a heated after a meeting discussion in a parking lot... I called one of them (antis) on it, and he admitted it, and with some very choice language to describe fishermen and ORV users.
If they can't use the plover, they will find another pawn, to deny access.

I thought that too Karl and I agree. But numbers are nu,bers. To go from 150ish pairs in 86 to 600 and something is progress

the damn enviros dont even want us to walk on the beach . we are destrying the planet by walking . stop where you are dont move stop breathing .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................. Ok continue on !

Don't drive... at all, anyplace anytime.
Don't walk on the beach
Don't use electricity
Don't eat animals
No fishing, hunting or camping
Don't burn anything
Don't fertilize
Don't water
Don't go in the sun
Don't own a power boat
Don't consume fossile fuels of anykind

Eat dirt and be happy.


I went to conservationist area last weekend I wish I took a photo of the sign....
No Sunbathing, No Fishing, No swimming, No camping, No eating, No ..I can't remember... it was like 6 or 7 No's...and the reason was that any of these activities would eventually ruin the area and is not the intent of the sancury.:rolleyes:...WTF can you do?
How can they say No Fishing on the beach or no Sunbathing? huh?

just wait...

the wrack line will be next
the source of all life for the beach, including the sand fleas.
humans walking or driving on or near the wrack line kill off the food source for even the most minute beach creatures.
(this will be how they sell it)
close the beaches to humans to save the sand fleas...

you think I'm kidding????


NOT!... it's coming soon to a beach near you, get ready, they know they can't use the plover forever, and they have poured thousands of $ and man hours studying the wrack line.....:rolleyes:

In new zealand the enviros wanted to boot mountainbikers off the trails. A govt funded study ensued. When it was completed the enviros tried to bury it.

Why?

Abuse to the trails was found caused by, from most to least:

1) human walking traffic
2) animal walking traffic
3) mountainbike traffic.

That's right...
the walking enviros caused the most mess to the NewZealand trails. The folks they wanted banned, the MTB'ers caused the least. And the middle ground was horses.

The problem is folks look at an area, think they know what is wrong and then try to make that fit.

The correct approach is:
1 - identify if there IS a problem.
With plovers, maybe the correct balance *IS* 80 pairs.
Too many and you attract predators 0 foxes and coyotes.

2 - study the ecology.
What effects the situation?
Nature (predation) Recreation (vehicle, foot, noise?)

3 - carefully modify the situation.
thin the predators?
thin the plovers?
thin the recreation?

4 - start over again.

remember...you do have the right to fish,fowl or navagate along the shore line as long as your standing in the water,,,go tell them to stuff it in their sea bag.......I've told more than one person an even said I'd be more than happy to call the cops for them....I keep a copy of the law in my wallet.

Originally posted by Karl F
just wait...

the wrack line will be next
the source of all life for the beach, including the sand fleas.
humans walking or driving on or near the wrack line kill off the food source for even the most minute beach creatures.
(this will be how they sell it)
close the beaches to humans to save the sand fleas...

you think I'm kidding????


NOT!... it's coming soon to a beach near you, get ready, they know they can't use the plover forever, and they have poured thousands of $ and man hours studying the wrack line.....:rolleyes:

Two studies are underway: The University of Rhode Island will examine whether the off-road vehicles harm the wrack line, the rows of dead seaweed that are home to insects and other critters that birds eat, and the University of Vermont will examine what beachgoers and off-road vehicle operators want from their beach access.

I think we need to pressure the state to open a "wrack line" ladder, kinda like a fish ladder used to get herring over the dams. Instead the "wrack ladder", or perhaps "wrack modulator", will elevate the "wrack line" as high tide approaches to where it can only be wetted out by the wave action instead of being constantly destroyed and rebuilt. Obviously, mother nature is also wracking havoc on the wrack line and must be dealt with as well.

Does anyone else have a potential proposal to save the wrack line? A sign & slogan campaing? "Dogs and ORV's - Keep Of The Wrack" or "Save the SandFleas, don't tread on wrack", or for Jersey beaches - "What the Wrack you lookin' at"

This is just getting rediculous.

Obviously, mother nature is also wracking havoc on the wrack line and must be dealt with as well.


Someone needs to go wrack mother nature.

WOMEN! :smash:

Check out todays Boston Globe for wrack line info. The article is somewhat miss leading and miss information also. The picture of the SC area is not a good image for the fisherman as it protrays everone as a beer guzzling, chair sitting ,rich mobil home owner.Those big campers are not a good image.

isn't part of the problem with lifting restrictions that it is the total #'s, not just the local #'s of birds? sure, new england has made progress, but other areas have not improved at our rate. so, the total is still below acceptable levels of successful nesting pairs. it really is scary to think that the GVT can keep me from land of which I am part owner. my access to land is restricted because some no-name hippies want us off property they have NEVER had any connection to. i would wager anything that i have more invested and care more for the overall wellfare of "my" beach than any of them! :af: it sucks to feel so helpless.

Well, the photo in the globe was interesting, however, I didn't see anyone sitting in a chair, or, guzzling beer. I did recognize a few of those rigs, and I know those people aren't rich either. Some of them pay for their weekends and gas bill by commercial fishing from the boats they trailer, and sell the fluke and stripers they catch. Granted, not all of them fish, but I know for a fact that some of them are real good fishermen.
This also plays into the anti's hand, get fishermen and beach users finger pointing and fighting amongst themselves... so, I ain't gonna play that game.

John :D SAVE THE SAND FLEAS... I'd probably buy the sticker, 'cause it's so ridiculous...
my favorite logo/slogan, is on my favorite t-shirt... from the annual Everill MacKay Fishing Derby held in the fall at Sandy Neck by the mbba....

You think these bird nerds want ot stare at your butt crack as you winch in a bass??? They want you off the beach so they can have it to themselves...:mad:

hehe, Bird Nerds :laughs: :laughs:

they are so gay it is scary :D

I wonder if they would freak if they saw a gull smashing into my line at night because he didn't see it. Or a bunch of coots skiddering away while I launch a 2.5 oz. plug their way.

And last but not least the hookup of a gannet or a gull when they just can't resist the presentation. Birds are great. They show you if you are doing it right or not :D

Albatross at night on race boats.

Bet the bird huggers would LOVE to hear the story about how an albatross came crashing through the rigging and straight into the face of the helmsman on that watch...

Needless to say he got the rest of the watch off... but I almost crapped myself when the thing landed in the cockpit and started thrashing around...

We threw it over the side and it flew off...

I bet sailboats are a menace to birds now. :rolleyes:

as long as the overall numbers do not meet the total to take the bird off the endangered species list, it will remain on the list. last i heard the usfw wants to have 2500 total nesting pairs before it is removed from the list. then, the gov't we no longer be involved, but local enforcement will - dep, dem, etc. i am not sure what the regs will be like then, but the power will not be as forceful. if they wanted to, they could move onto another bird, like the least tern, which is also on the endangered species list. it's fun to joke about the bird, i know as i did and still do, but when reality sets in you learn to adapt. the best way to adapt, learn the rules, rights, and about the bird.