what do you guys suggest for sealer and primer?

I'm still using Minwax woodhardner ( I'm looking for something less deadly) and BIN spray primer.

linseed oil/mineral spirits soak, (60/40), air dry for a week, Bin (gold can) spray can primer.

might be worth a search, there have been many ways discussed, from sealing them with epoxy, to sealing them with urethane, and everything in-between.

I like rustoilem painter's touch sandable primer.

I've tried red-label bin in both the spray can and the brush can. I found the spray can left a fussy texture on the wood and took awhile to sand clean. brush was much better-no fuzzy texture, but still took time to sand them down. The rust-oliem went on great and only needed a light sand.

For a sealer i do like Karl 60/40 BOILED linseed oil/mineral spirits.

Young Salt is correct, make sure you use the BOILED linseed, if that's the route your going to go.

60/40 to seal with and Benjamin Moore fresh start to prime,but after finishing Taggers homework :)i think i'll switch to the Bin spray,as it leaves a smoother finish imho.

How long in the linseed/min spirits soak?

Rocketman, i found after dipping one piece for 1 min and another overniht the penetration was the same in red cedar after cutting them in half. Clear through:D

that's a whole other can o' worms.....
some say 30 seconds, some say 60 seconds....
I say. why bother!

I want that sealer to penetrate the wood, I leave it about 6 hours... overnight. I leave 'em hang for a week... I give them a feel, if they are cool to the touch, I let them hang some more... they will feel room temp, when dry.

Karl what wood to you use most?

Whatever is free!!! ;)
I've used maple, oak, poplar, and mahogany.
I know some wouldn't use poplar for kindling, but I've had good luck with it.
I'm new at this, just passing along, whats worked for me... I hope some of our senior (more experienced) staff here will jump in.

Karl i'm sure the harder woods don't absorb the 60/40 as quickly as the red cedar. Sounds like the overnight would be the best.
Thanks for the tip about the room temp means their dry.:)

poplar makes good kindling :)

I use Alaskan Yellow cedar and don't bother to seal it, it works for me, they are just plugs afterall.

Originally posted by Slipknot


I use Alaskan Yellow cedar and don't bother to seal it, it works for me, they are just plugs afterall. [/B]

Slip,you can send me all the "just plugs"that you engineer anytime.:D

:D :D

poplar has worked for me in the past. Did some poppers and swimmers from it. Gotta seal it well. Have not used it in a while. AYC has a better action, paint holds better, and it is more resistant to rot and such. Depends on the action you want. If poplar works for you, go for it.

I still seal the AYC. 30 second bath in Boiled linseed/mineral spirits mix. I went back and forth on sealing the AYC for a while. Found that sealing it does help, more so with the smaller freshie stuff that I do. Unsealed, it will aborb some water. This will affect the plug's action and can compromise the paint/clear coat. Bear in mind that it takes a while for this to happen. However, in many cases I'll have the same plug on for 5-8 hours. I have had unsealed AYC plugs that swam on top just fine at the beginning of the night just fine. Towards the end of the night, had a hard time keeping them on top. Not a problem if they have been sealed.

My $0.02.

Jigman

Good idea Jigman
no wonder I use plastic plugs:eek: :smash: :smash:

Salty, so where does that leave us?:huh:I already stopped using Waterlox because of your odor post:D What do you reccomend?:)

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP. :btu:

Slip, Plastic plugs :shocked: Heathen :smash:

Wood = :jump: Lead = :jump: :happy:

:D

Jigman

Jigster,wood is good,but plastic can be fantastic!:boots::as:

Originally posted by justplugit
Salty, so where does that leave us?:huh:I already stopped using Waterlox because of your odor post:D What do you reccomend?:)


I wouldn't stop using waterlox. I personally think it's a great product. I have had ZERO problems with it.

Also, there are several reputable builders in your neck of the woods that have been using it for years.

That's my $.02

Bernzy

I'd like to hear what Habs has to say about this topic.

Salty,are you saying that a full alkyd primer will seal and prime if you are willing to take the time for it to dry?
Thanks to all you guys for keepin me learnin:D

Makes sense.WE are always in such a hurry and the paint companies are trying to appease us.
We live in a Quick Dry society.:laughs:

Some seem to change their finishes and their waterproofing ways like I change underwear........ And some seem to be on the Quest in Search of the HOLY GRAIL of Finishes.....Which I'm not even sure is there. You are dealing with a piece of wood that is submerged in water. Some things work better than others, some finishes last longer than others. BUT no one is going to make a piece of wood that lasts for ETERNITY. First of all, all wood should be sealed, no matter what you're using. This will prolong the life of your plug by sealing properly with whatever you're using; OILS or etc. It's up to you.... It's all in the APPLICATION AND CHEMICAL WARFARE, WITH PROPER PAINTS AND PRIMERS. AND PROPER DRYING TIMES. I've been at this a long time. Take it for what it's worth: OILS DO PRESERVE your wood. It seems to me that alot of you guys when using cedars, when going over it with water based paints, the oils bleeds out. This is your problem. DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXPERIMENT. Water based in water is a no no. It does not LAST. Oil based in water, REPELS. Let's talk about tung oil. PURE TUNG OIL is a finishing product that provides a tough, flexible coating. Tung Oil had been know for centuries to the Chinese since the 13th century. Tung Oil received wide application in China in the building trades, as a treatment for both wood and stone structures; and in marine trades AS A PRESERVATIVE and WATER REPELLANT on wooden boats. Tung oil is favored over linseed oil because it is faster drying. PURE TUNG OIL is WATER and ALKALI RESISTANT. It resists marring and penatrates well. This is just one of many things I've found out through trial and error. Good luck. Don't be afraid to experiment. THIS CONCLUDES OUR LESSON FOR TODAY. :)

Originally posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
Bernzy you can use what you want, but I am telling you this..... BOTH linseed oil and waterlox/tung oil act as a release agent to the primer layer when a wood plug body is dipped in it. The engineer I have been PAYING predicted this and the others we have consulted with have advised the same thing. Adhesion tests have proved it on wood sealed for 1 week or 2 months. Not only with bin products but with many other primers on the market today. Am I an expert in it or know it all? Nope that's what I'm paying this guy for right now. To develop a completely bullet proof and consistent finish. And the only way you can do it with any of these products is to use a full alkyd primer, that is the only thing we've done so far that will give us a solid base to expand the paint layer on. Problem with oil primer is length of time to dry especially in the humid weather lately. 3-4 days is what we've found for proper dry and adhesion. Suxx to tie up paint racks for 4 days of dry time....

Salty,

I am just saying what works for me. I have had ZERO problems with the primer I use, adhering to a Tung Oil sealed plug. I CANNOT scratch the primer off of a sealed plug. I let the tung oil dry for 12 hours then prime. No problems! You are correct however, with the humidity issue. It can affect the drying/curing time of many sealers, primers and finishes. My shop is in a controlled environment so I don't have to deal with humidity problems.

I'm not using what I want, but rather what I need to build plugs that are durable.

With the money I've spent trying various products, I may have been better off hiring someone to figure it out for me.

I've found the combo I've been looking for through testing and trial and error.

Bernzy

The info I gave is my opinion, BASED on my years of Trial and Error....................Someone asked What I think and Only answered the Question............................. :D

Habs, thanks for the reply. :)

HabHole:happy:

You guys are all plug sissys.

Got Tin !:D

JHabs;
Great write up. Just what a beginner needs to read!:claps:

I could use a Good Tin & Tonic later.......................

holeHab

YES Almighty P- TOWN GUIDE..........:bshake: :bshake: ....... :wave:

Good info guys. Thanks for sharing :kewl:

Oh, and I have found that lead does not need to be sealed :D

Jigman

great information thanks guys, very helpful topic.

Originally posted by JHABS
YES Almighty P- TOWN GUIDE..........:bshake: :bshake: ....... :wave:
Nice Bum Boy:laughs: back to work for You:smash:

tid bit more....urethane is a blend of different tung oils with a splash of hardner mixed in.

just make sure it's exterior/marine urethane.

don't use poly it's not the same.

soak for a half hour,,,,let drip for a few min's, then wipe the outside off an hang over nite.

lightly sand to get rid of any fuzzies,,blow the dust off, or wipe your plug down with wil-bond[has bonding agents to let the paint stick better] then prime with exterior OIL paint.

For those using Tung Oil,do you dilute,dip or brush on and how long do you dry? Thanks:)

Dip and dry overnight.

Bernzy

Bernzy thanks.How long do you keep them emersed?

salty,

you sure that your are letting that waterlox dry in heat WITH good air flow ?

that is the key to drying it. we paint floors over it but they ain't no plug :)

Originally posted by JHABS
Some seem to change their finishes and their waterproofing ways like I change underwear........ And some seem to be on the Quest in Search of the HOLY GRAIL of Finishes.....Which I'm not even sure is there. You are dealing with a piece of wood that is submerged in water. Some things work better than others, some finishes last longer than others. BUT no one is going to make a piece of wood that lasts for ETERNITY. First of all, all wood should be sealed, no matter what you're using. This will prolong the life of your plug by sealing properly with whatever you're using; OILS or etc. It's up to you.... It's all in the APPLICATION AND CHEMICAL WARFARE, WITH PROPER PAINTS AND PRIMERS. AND PROPER DRYING TIMES. I've been at this a long time. Take it for what it's worth: OILS DO PRESERVE your wood. It seems to me that alot of you guys when using cedars, when going over it with water based paints, the oils bleeds out. This is your problem. DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXPERIMENT. Water based in water is a no no. It does not LAST. Oil based in water, REPELS. Let's talk about tung oil. PURE TUNG OIL is a finishing product that provides a tough, flexible coating. Tung Oil had been know for centuries to the Chinese since the 13th century. Tung Oil received wide application in China in the building trades, as a treatment for both wood and stone structures; and in marine trades AS A PRESERVATIVE and WATER REPELLANT on wooden boats. Tung oil is favored over linseed oil because it is faster drying. PURE TUNG OIL is WATER and ALKALI RESISTANT. It resists marring and penatrates well. This is just one of many things I've found out through trial and error. Good luck. Don't be afraid to experiment. THIS CONCLUDES OUR LESSON FOR TODAY. :)

Very good info John, Thanks :D
I know how long it takes you to type, glad your puter didn't crash in the middle of that ;)

I've had problems with the waterlox, but good results with the boiled linseed oil. With the waterlox, the paint / primer did not adhere to the waterlox. After a few nights of fishing, the paint peeled off. The linseed oil sealed plugs have not had any problems. Even after the hook drags and bluefish have chewed the finish off on spots of the plug, I haven't seen any grain raising
or other problems associated with water absorption.
The first few I did with the boiled linseed, I used it straight, no mineral spirits. The linseed bled through the paint after a week of drying on some of them. It hasn't had any adverse effect on the plug other than it looks awful. I haven't had a problem with bleeding through since I've cut the linseed with mineral spirits.

AdamR, Your doing your HOMEWORK............... :btu:

I take the raw plug prime wait bout 47 seconds then paint wait one day then epoxy finish one more day an its catchin fish.i got no time to wait.an I don't care if it explodes i just make another one .thank U.

I bumped this up because there is a bunch of good info here.

Bernzy

Thanks John I needed that.

oil to oil to oil....very good.

oil to :gu: to laytex to oil...not good.

I gave up on BIN and linseed oil. One is too soft, the other doesn't dry well. I've used val oil/ mineral spirits, dry then sand with 220, then brush on Zspar marine undercoat, dry then sand with 220 and go from there. Am thinking about trying to airbrush oils rather than latex. Anybody doing this?

You guys make super lures, mine are not pretty but catch fish (for me).
I seal my lures with a couple coats of Testors plastic cement (contains methyl ethyl keytone) and then paint them with Testors paint and then add another couple coat of cement (it drys pretty clear and shiny).
Ever try liquid clear plastic cement ? (this "Testors plastic cement" stuff is like water).

i used to do my gun stocks....i sanded them for weeks it seemed like......
before i got them the way the grain looked just right...and brought it out.

i applied tung oil with my thumb the way this old timer showed me
nice smooth strokes.....like how sylvester stalone as Rambo sharpens his big ole knife....real slow and gentle like.

they used to come out mint...too and the weather never even phased them.....with 3-4 coats.
Those were the days...... :o
out on the salt marsh duck huntin with shells i loaded myself....
but i digress

i'd do the left side then the right.... on different days....light sand
in between coats...and the tac rag was so important.

thanks though guys for all that great info....
seems like tho..... :
we were just talkin about that super easy hardening wax recently....
we're all over the place.

Habs thankyou.....

Salty! hire +++> Jason of the Argonauts

nibs comment was awesome :rotf2:

and Justplugit...! we live in a quick dry society .....totally Richhttp://img116.exs.cx/img116/1231/z7shysterical.gif

Am thinking about trying to airbrush oils rather than latex. Anybody doing this?

I use to do this, but having to thin the oil made the paint way to light in color , watered it down to much......van dykes has some reel nice lacquer airbush paint and other kinds.

I use to do this, but having to thin the oil made the paint way to light in color , watered it down to much......van dykes has some reel nice lacquer airbush paint and other kinds.

I've sprayed one shot lettering enamel in the past without any problems. Just use their reducer. I haven't used it for plugs yet but I wouldn't hesitate to if I had the money for all the colors I want(stuff ain't cheap). Only problem with spraying oil based is that cleanup is a PIA. I stank like turpentine all the time when I used to use it(helped out a signpainter when I was younger).

I think I joined the site after this thread had come and gone so this was new to me. Lots if interesting info in here. 3 years later, are you guys still doing things the same way?

I know I've tried 3 different sealers each of the past 3 years.

I understand oil-oil-oil is good, is there a sprayable oil primer or do you need to brush it or dip em in it ?

The more I learn about this stuff the more I realize how much I still have to learn.

well since i stopped making plugs and selling them in a few tackleshops around my area, i will share my secrets. I never read about this technique, and just dreampt it up one day when i read that you could thin epoxy with acetone.
I was watering down each seperate part of a 1 to 1 epoxy with acetone and would dunk my blanks in one then the other for an hour each... hardens em up real strong. I mean real real strong to teh point that red cedar was as hard as iron. I had the luxury of lots of heat and would heat up my blanks to help the epoxy seep in. I was using pelucid with great results for a clearcoat on top of oil paints...If i used a clear enamel scratch coat the pelucid would peal off like dead skin form the bottom of your foot.
I dont know if you can do this in a cold garage or basement, but in a 90 degree room and 250 degree blanks it worked schweet.
Dont use pelucid without a massive exhaust system please. You will die.

NEBE... When you thinned your epoxy did you ever have any places that would not dry completely..? Finish coat...

I learned that with Devcon if you get a wrinkle in the epoxy coat you could use a fresh brush, dip it in M. E. K. Acetone then brush lightly to fix it.

But I was wondering if I thinned it all together if I could do more than 4 plugs at a time but still have a good result.

getta fish- i never had any problems. as long as the blank was dunked for the same time and was completley submerged, i was fine. i had a few needles crack on someone because i dunked with painting rods stuffed in the nose hole... the sealer didnt penetrate the wood where the rod was touching.. other than that zero problems.

BTW, just so you know and I'm stupid to be publicly posting something that I paid someone to research, but all of the spray primers on the market today are engineered for fast dry and as such use fast evaporating solvents. Acetone, ketone, etc etc. Problem is that there are only two classes of oil primers...fast and slow...and if you try and use the fast dry stuff then you're in effect drying the primer before it has a chance to react with the surface oils and make a proper bond... Slow dry base gives the chemicals time to allow the pigment to react with the oil and become PART of the surface oils and allow the pigment etc to actually bond to the surface.

Correct on all counts there Scott :btu:
I know you know that but I concure...

oil to oil to oil....very good.

oil to :gu: to laytex to oil...not good.

Actually not the case...

Unless you use light coats wet on wet.... Oil cannot penetrate itself once it's dried... it used to before the VOC laws came into effect but now they've taken everything good out of oil. (soon you won;t be able to get oil paints)... The preffered system for house paint in oil primer latex top. And Epoxy is NOT oil based. As for plugs..... as HABS says do your homework.

-Dave