Here is the article I read on the Pogies.

http://www.discover.com/sept_01/gthere.html?article=featfish.html

http://discover.com/current_issue/index.html

Mindi gave me the same copy in print. That's one of her favorite magazines. I have the copy in my room.

The one picture that frightens me is this one. It's pretty small on the website but in the magazine, it's a full page. The fish in the middle laying on it's stomach is a striper. In the full page photo, you can see some distinct stripes running along the sides. "Bycatch" I guess. I tried blowing up the photo but that just made things blurry. But trust me, it's a striper all right.

That's kind of sad that mainstream media got ahold of it. You know they must be in a bad way. It's a double edged sword though. Maybe this press will get people not directly related to fishing or menhaden reduction boats into the fight. I just hope they are smart enough to choose our side. Just another way of how big business runs the show and the little guys, us, get pushed aside. Hopefully, we all start pushing back. I really wanted to help the SaltyDogs out in NJ but I'm out of state but I think we should all have a say in what happens in other state's waters. They are the same fish that migrate up and down the coast. If they don't kill them in NJ, they'll kill them somewhere else. Very sad state of affairs. Haven't even seen any peanut bunker yet. Last year there were gazillions of them and they were here in late August. Nothing yet.

Hopefully, HOPEFULLY, someone will figure out a way to get a coastwide action going to protect the menhaden but until then, I guess it's a state by state battle. Each state that sides with us makes it easier for other states to see it clearly. But it's like bowling. You get a much better score if you knock all the pins down at once.

Maybe I'm onto something, and I'm sure others have the same idea. A conservation group out there lobbying just to protect these fish. Nothing else. Just the bunkers.

Obviously this topic is very close to my heart. But like the article basically says, the menhaden is the most important fish on the east coast. Everything in the ocean survives off it directly or not so far indirectly.

Interesting...

Patrick - scan that image and e-mail it to me if you could... thanx

Excellent article. I didn't know Menhaden were filter feeders. I know the bigger bass dwindled in numbers when the full size menhaden departed the scene (in our area) about8 to 10 years ago. I don't like bait fishing but do like snagging and livelining menhaden. Just like livelining herring only much higher expectations for the size bass that will take. Anyway those days have been gone a long time now.

Does anyone remember the Saturday Night Live skit from the 80's of the Tobacco Industry executive sitting there smoking like 8 cigarettes saying, "studies, what studies... I have studies that show cigarettes are good for you"

Why are the quotes from corporate heads always the same. All the people saying the menhaden are disappearing are lying? People don't know what's really going on... does that sound familiar to anyone.

Its like they have access to information that non of us have and we should just shut up let them make their millions... if that's the case than enlighten us.

Oh yes, its the overpopulation of striped bass that is wiping out the bunker stocks, not the huge boats that harvest entire schools.

Are we really supposed to believe that? Are they assuming the public is that fuc#ing stupid?

I have a great idea... they will stop overharvesting bunker if we open striped bass back up to commercial netting. Does that work for everyone here?

I'm sorry Patrick... I know you're gonna take this wrong, but you are way off base if your biggest concern is the striped bass bycatch. Its the ecosystem as a whole. If we don't manage the marine environment as a whole, it doesn't matter if stripers are completely protected and left alone. When the bunker are gone, they will move on to herring or mackerel... when they are gone, they will grind up small crabs or clams for fertilizer or something... then what, seaweed. All the while they use their millions to lobby for the lifting of restrictions on other species... they will just move on to the next exploitable resource that isn't protected and wipe it out. What are stripers, blues, tuna, etc. gonna eat... are they gonna become vegetarians, or are they going to hang out in the harbor waiting for tourists to throw them bread.

THEY ARE WIPING THESE FISH OUT FOR CHICKEN FOOD!!! Why do we think that this will end with stripers or bunker?

What really scares me is the efficiency that commercial fleets are capable of... and that article addresses that. They can virtually wipe out the population.

And this filter feeding issue... I also had no idea and that seems to be a threat to all species. But its all lies anyway. There's no problem. Plenty of fish in the sea or so the saying goes.

it amazes me that the reduction industry can make that statement saying the bass are eating all of the bunker with a straight face...there has never been a more absurd theory :confused: ...if that was the case then we should all be catching fat, healthy 50 lbers instead of the skinny 42 inch 25lbers that we are currently seeing...

schoolie monster nailed it by comparing this type of denial with the tobacco industry execs that got up before congress and said that nicotine was not addictive...;) ;) talk about a poker face!

the saddest thing is that on the one hand the reduction industry reps say that the population is healthy, but then they say there is a problem with recruitment of young fish...if you're looking for the young fish, check your nets!! If the population is so healthy, then why were the 2000 landings the lowest in the 60 years that records have been kept? :confused: :mad:

Oh yes, its the overpopulation of striped bass that is wiping out the bunker stocks, not the huge boats that harvest entire schools.
Are we really supposed to believe that? Are they assuming the public is that fuc#ing stupid?
It's not that the public is stupid but the public at large is uninformed. When you read an article on a topic you're not intimately familiar with in your Sunday paper, one tends to read in some common sense or what some of the "experts" say. But we look at this a little differently as we are more aware of the problem. I'd say the "Fishing Public" as a whole does not even realize the problem. (Would it be safe to say that between all of the fishing clubs, the internet, and the remaining knowledgeable & semi-knowledgeable anglers make up maybe less than 10% of the whole fishing scene?) Out of the balance of that “fishing public” and the public at large that have bothered to read about the bass and other game fish – these people still think that the Striped Bass was a wonder of proper fisheries management and that the stock is incredibly healthy. You get some yahoo like that making a statement, the majority of the public will probably believe it.

So it is up to us, in part, to help those addressing this issue because the Public at Large has no clue to what’s happening here.

And this filter feeding issue... I also had no idea and that seems to be a threat to all species. But its all lies anyway. There's no problem. Plenty of fish in the sea or so the saying goes.

The first time I had heard that was from Dan Pedro, he – with the support of several others and several clubs - was trying to get the Rhody legislature to pass a ban on seining in Narragansett Bay and a mile out from it. They heard the issue several times but kept conveniently coming to a split decision and table it for next year. Meanwhile the netter comes in and blows away the few N. Bay Menhaden in a couple days and moves on to the next stop along the coast.

From the article: White attributes the absence of adult fish in New England and eastern Long Island waters to cyclic factors. "Well-meaning people who don't know marine biology have been mistaking short-term occurrences for long-term trends," he says. "In fact, the reports I have show that more fish seem to be moving into the area." Moreover, White says, "the total biomass is sufficient to sustain the industry."

That’s BS as well as those of us in “New England” are not seeing any increase in ADULT menhaden. We may have had more nuts in southern New England last year. Tey – maybe that’s it – last year was an up cycle in BABY menhaden. Looks like the big ships missed a school or two and we got lucky. We’re not seeing that strong concentration this year, are we?
What are stripers, blues, tuna, etc. gonna eat... are they gonna become vegetarians, or are they going to hang out in the harbor waiting for tourists to throw them bread.

Everything would collapse. The other forage fish like the macks, mullet, and herring do not have the biomass of the current menhaden – let alone what was available 30 years ago. They are negligible in the overall forage for these fish – and many more species that what I thought would be impacted before reading this article…

The one picture that frightens me is this one. It's pretty small on the website but in the magazine, it's a full page. The fish in the middle laying on it's stomach is a striper. In the full page photo, you can see some distinct stripes running along the sides. "Bycatch" I guess. I tried blowing up the photo but that just made things blurry. But trust me, it's a striper all right. That’s another issue and fight altogether. That’s a very serious problem but perhaps not as grave as this one. The “bycatch” fight needs to be fough hard and won but it should not be confused with this one. They are both EXTREMELY important.

It’s easy for some of us in NE to forget about the bunker issue but it’s a bad thing to let happen. We don’t see them anywhere near what some in western CT, NY, and Jersey see. But they used to be found in Maine. Big, thick schools of ADULT menhaden way up the coast of Maine. And the guys I’ve run into telling me this said that it was only 25 years ago. The big schools of menhaden, for all practical purposes, vanished from Boston Harbor in the 80’s. Ask Got Stripers. When I was out on the boat with him a few weeks back, he told me of the good times he had when you could practically walk across the water they schooled on. GS – when was the last time you saw them?

In a nutshell – more needs to be done and we northern folk need to applaud AND assist our fellow anglers in Jersey/DelVarMar for the work they’ve been doing. I DO remember when I was a kid on the Chesapeke, seeing massive schools of fish going nuts all over the place. I didn’t know what they were at the time (hey, I was 10 when I moved the first time and had more important things on my mind when I was back at 14 – I think her name was Andrea). But now I do and you do too.

This is shaping up to be a very weird year in the fish. The late spring early summer fish in Boston Harbor were fat on Mackeral and Herring. The fish from ‘Ganestt and Boston have been pretty skinny as of late. Bryan Taplin, an environmental scientist in the Atlantic Ecology Division of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), has witnessed the destruction of all the large schools of menhaden by purse seiners in Rhode Island's Narragansett Bay. During the last two decades he has also studied changes in the diet of striped bass in the bay by analyzing the carbon isotope signature of their scales. What he has discovered is a steady shift away from fat-rich menhaden to invertebrates that provide considerably lower nutritional value. That has been accompanied by a loss of muscle and a decrease in the weight-to-length ratio of striped bass. The bass that remain in Narragansett Bay, says Taplin, are "long skinny stripers" that have been forced to shift their diet because "the menhaden population has crashed to an all-time low."

The thing that gets me the most? These kibble of the sea fetch only about 10 cents a pound at the dock

Here is a link to the Dan Pedro info on regulating Menhaden in Rhode Island waters... http://128.241.205.103/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=987&highlight=seine

I've ranted on this subject and they should have their corporate *sses handed to them on a platter. They will rationalize things until it works in their favor, like the tabacco companies claiming they don't target youth as it's now illegal...yeah right.

Educate those that will listen, don't promote anything that uses bunker oil and maybe a list of end use products that industry supplies to would be helpful. Does anyone have a list on that, it might be helpful to post it on numerous boards. It's not like banning fur sales, duh don't buy furs, this product could be in a hundred everyday products for all we know.

Think they will give us a list if we write them a nice note:rolleyes: ?

John,

I have the image scanned, can't find your email address though. If you could send me a line or just tell me the address. It's stripedbassguy@aol.com

it's john@striped-bass.com

Allright, you have mail. I couldn't remember if it was John or JohnR@striped-bass.com That solves that one.

Yep - some juvy bass in here... to see the big picture (400K), click here (http://www.striped-bass.com/Images/bunkera.jpg)

Bringing this back up. I originally searched for this because it had the article link on it and someone on another site is looking for bunker articles. Well I re-examined the picture and look right above the striper's head. See that dark fin? That's too dark for a bunker but it looks like either a flounder tail or another striper.