This is our modern day Pearl Harbor but maybe even worse. Our country banded together then as we shall band to gether now. Prayers out to everyone and let us stick together as there is no greater place on earth than this country.

That is also why we are so often the target of others.

This is an hour of need for our families, our friends, our country...

Fishing doesn/t matter today, God bless everyone !!!

Terrorism is a very serious part of life these days. Much of it is directed at our country and us American Citizens. To say that it is a part of life is difficult but hopefully ou nation can and will change that.

I lived in Germany from 83-86 during a very volatile time in our history. The Berlin wall was alive and kicking, oppression reigned across much of the globe, and America was a target for action from around the world. Back then; most kids in high school in the US at the time had fire drills. We had bomb scares, except these were not drills. We never seemed to be able to go beyond a month or two tops without having some kind of threat directed at our base, Alexander M. Patch – HQEUCOM, or sometimes the school itself. We had regional advisories when we were directed not to go off base or for those that did not live on the base, to limit our time out of our homes. Threats that a trip to the local gausthaus or bierstuepel might be one way.

Those threats became very real. There were the deaths of our Marines in Beirut. The bombing that occurred at Le Belle Diskoteka in Berlin where several American servicemen and German citizens lost their lives. Countless acts of violence directed at America. High-jackings, assassinations and the like. There was constant rumblings that the Bader-Meinhoff Gang and Red Army Faction had developed plans to attack my High School itself to further their political statement. At one time, when my step mother and I were leaving Breunigerland in Boeblingen (sorta Bloomindales meets BJ’s Wholesale outside Stuttgart ) a pipe fell of the back off the car (US servicemen and women had USA plates on their private vehicles and those of their dependants). We called it in and shaken, brought the car to a garage to have it inspected. Nothing was ever found missing from the car, but no evidence was ever found to indicate to us if it really was what it looked like at the time. Since then, I have always had an understanding of what it feels like to be a potential victim in the ongoing war of terrorism. None of that prepared me for today.

Even though one part of my mind was programmed by history to almost expect something of this magnitude, it is still difficult for me to grasp the enormity of the events unfolding before our eyes today. Many people have lost their husbands, their wives, their children and friends today. The Rescue Personnel across much of the east coast but especially those in New York City have answered the bell of need to help our friends and family get through this horrible morning and the events of today there must be a significant loss of the men and women in their ranks. The loss of the personnel in the military and those that just happen to be on the wrong flight this morning – it’s just too much to stomach at any time. The people in the towers, the tear in my heart just gets worse and worse as what remained collapsed into the streets below.

My wife and I hugged our son many times today. It’s disgusting that events like this may continue during his lifetime. Give all of your family and friends a hug when you see them. And pray for those that are not as lucky to have everyone come home. Life is just too precious.

But one thing I learned when I was overseas. The acts of small groups of people with demented ideology and rationalizations of their actions do not always reflect the entirety of a society (unless its an entire people want to fight, well, they made the wrong choice). When Badder-Meinhoff and the Red Army Faction acted out against our personnel in Germany, our government and that of the German people went after those directly responsible and brought those responsible to justice. That WILL happen again now. Our government and that of the rational world community WILL find out who did this and America WILL bring an angry, competent sword to those responsible for today’s events.

Those that committed these events have tried to attack Our National Heart, Our Identity, and Our collective Good. They will not bring what is AMERICA to its knees. One of those traits that is American is to embrace people of race, nationality, religion, and origin that may be different of our own. Let’s not go hate any particular people because we “assume” they are responsible. If we let that happen, then perhaps these terrorists have won this round.

Let’s go forward and find those who ARE responsible and then bring the full weight the American people and all of its resources. Find the bastards that did this and turn their surroundings into a molten parking lot unfit for the survival of the maggots they are... When they are gone, it's time to go rough over those that might think this was a good thing.

You read my mind, what's left of it today :(.

Ugh. I had gone up to my room to play playstation when my dad called me down after the first plane struck. We thought it was a freak accident and I was terribly saddened. Then, I went back upstairs and missed the second wave and the pentagon attack. Boy, I was shocked at first. Now I am just sickened. So sickened I turned off the TV.

We have to assume this is an attack by Osama Bin Ladin. No one has "officially" claimed responsibility but Bin Ladin is the only man smart enough, crazy enough, and mad at us enough to pull off an attack like this. Not to mention that one of his "associates" was to be sentenced tomorrow for the attacks on the US Embassies in Africa. According to the press, his sentencing was to be held across the street from the WTC.

This is why an aggressive foreign policy is bad. Take a look at history at all the times we've gone to help countries that didn't want our help. We took Panama from Colombian control and now they just love to ship their coke up here. We took over control of Cuba and they were just lining up to take nuclear weapons from the U.S.S.R. during the cold war. "Favors" always come back to bite you on the behind.

This time it was much worse though. Religion was involved. Ever been in a fight over religion? The outcome is always the same. Each side's position doesn't change and afterwards, there is always some bitterness between the two parties. Add to that armed radicals that go to the extreme, and you have a major problem on your hands.

We should have never gotten involved in the Palestine/Israeli wars. We should have just said, "Go ahead and kill each other." and washed our hands of both of them. But no, we had to choose sides. And don't act like we didn't choose a side. I don't care how many peace talks there have been, we always sided with the Israelis. What do we have to show for our actions? Israelis and Palestines still aren't at peace with each other and now thousands of our people are dead.

Don't think I am blaming our Government totally for these actions because I'm not. It's like my brother told me. He lives in a seedy part of NYC. He said the key to survival there is to keep to yourself, keep looking forward, don't look at anyone in the eye and just keep moving. I'm not saying the Governement spurred these attacks but when you have these radical militant groups, even the most honorable deeds can really come back to screw you.

Those poor people. I hope to God that those that have parished left this earth quickly, peacefully and without pain and those that have escaped with injuries make quick recoveries. My heart goes out to them. My brother used to work in one of the Twin Towers. Luckily he got out of there months ago and he is safely at his apartment.

God rest their souls.

Patrick - I can't believe I'm reading this $h*! from you - well, from you I can believe it. You're way off base here. For starters, YOU might assume it was Bin-Laden but we don't know that yet. The resources required for today's events are something most likely of a nation or a nation ASSISTING a terrorist organization. This is not hijacking an ocean liner or sending one guy out in a VW Bus packed with fertilizer - this seems something of a grander scale.

Find out who did it and make them PAY but find out first. Build the evidence like the FBI going on a full court press but once you know who it is - give it to the guys and gals with a little more than a side arm. But don't compromise our values as Americans. Find out FIRST who did it - then kick their A$$ in such a major way that anyone else in that buisiness will have nightmares for life.

As far as "aggressive foreign policy", you were still peeing in your shorts at night the last time our foreign policy might have been considered aggressive. (I'm not convinced that it is aggressive now, maybe a bit misdirected and this is a solid wakeup call for that)

War has been raging between the Israelis and Palestinians for thousands of years, people keeping their noses out hasn't worked either. If you haven't noticed or have forgotten some of your history, SOME peace, however short, has occured at the hands of US intervention. It probably just wasn't enough.

Somehow today I have lost all appetite for fishing! God blessed all the victims and their families!

You aren't normal Patrick! I cannot imagine a healthy American male who right now isn't torn apart with every fiber of his body calling for blood.

Normal, has anything he's posted ever been normal, way to go Patrick; give yourself yet another pat on the back. How many times does he have to put his foot in his mouth, before he chokes on it?:mad:

I had gone up to my room to play playstation

no more needs to be said

Saltheart,

I'm very upset by this. I know my first post doesn't express rage but I am enraged. I just don't see violence as a solution to all our problems. Make peace, not war. Right now, we have to focus on healing ourselves. Once we do that, then we can go after the responsible party. How would you feel if you were a person trapped in there and knew people cared more about getting back at the attackers then saving the lives of the people still alive?

Then we have people that are saying, "Nuke them all". Bah. Nuclear weapons are evil. They will destroy our earth. Let me tell you something about nuclear weapons. When one goes off, it releases strongtium into the enviroment. These nuclear clouds go out into the atmosphere where they return to the earth when it rains. This strongtium goes to the grass where livestock eat it. Strongtium is in the same family as calcium. If you were to drink the milk of a cow that has been contaminated, you wind up getting strongtium instead of calcium. It makes your bones weak. When you use nuclear weapons, you destroy your own.

I think we need to focus on saving life instead of taking it. Anyone can take a life. It takes a strong person to save one. I really wish I could give blood but I can't. Let's just leave it at that.

"Eye for an eye will leave us all blind."

The guilty ones will be found and they will be dealt with when that time comes. Let's get all the answers we can first, then we can focus on what to do next.

Personally, once we get that far, I think we should hang the guilty up and beat them with stick until they are dead. As far as I know, the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment) applies to only citizens of the US.

Not to get off topic here, but what's wrong with playstation? Or any video game for that matter?

Let me tell you, there are plenty of video games that feed you intellectually. Who Wants to be a Millionaire, Jeopardy, You Don't Know Jack and others like that.

Second, video games help with your eye hand coordination. I am able to do things most people cannot. I can tie most knots behind my back or with my eyes closed. I can juggle. I'm able to type better. Videogames can be very helpful in development. You would be suprised to see who uses Video games. The military, the police, airplane pilots to name a few. Of course they call them something different but they essentially are videogames.

GS, who says your definition of normal is right?

I'm upset right now. Why must you all be so closed minded? Sure, I think different. I approach problems from a different angle. But for the most part, I still value much of the same things all of you do. I do have feelings, and I have my humanity, please don't try to strip that from me.

I just gave blood 4 weeks ago and am not eligable till Oct. 15th
But I feel like going to a different place and lying and donating anyway. Tommorow when the kids go off to school I will get my wife to donate. Right now it's the least I can do. This time of year there is always a shortage, as a matter of fact they usually are always short of blood.

Call 1-800-givelife and make a donation folks. Sorry the edit was to fix it, 1 800-givelife not blood

Anyone with O posative or O negative, it's even more important


Patrick you are an American, and have the right to be different. But it is not wise to ruffle any feathers on a day like this.

Patrick... Playstation isn't the problem. The problem is that you decided to play it instead of doing something. Go give blood, volunteer for the red cross. Do something!! What else do you have to do...be usefull!!!

I'm sorry I turned this personal. Lets not pick on Patrick. Everyone gets an opinion.

Lets just say that when they find out who did it , I won't complain about them being too rough with them.


I'm not so much advocating revenge as I am advocating letting the military act proactively in prevention of future incidents

I am still in a state of shock. Whoever perpetrated this act of cowardice, deffinately had some serious backing. It must have been planned for years. I bet you that they had someone working in the airports, maybe maintenence, sky chefs, cleaners etc. They must of had small arms or explosives of some sort smuggled on the planes. How else coud you force a large plane down. It is very sad. Tears came to my eyes while watching this unfold on the news. My wife was at work , and she called me crying. It just goes to show you that we can't take anything for granted. We are not safe anywhere, yet we cannot go around being afraid.

Charlie,

I can't give blood for reasons I won't go into. Plus I have a nasty case of bronchitis. I don't know if they would take blood from a person that is sick, will they?

You know who I am very pissed at? As you all know, there are websites out there that publish the horriffic, the obscene, the revolting things out there. Personally, I think the WTC incident should be off limits but not to some websites. They post pictures like it's some kind of a movie. I won't post the addresses because people will write hatemail and they love hatemail but let me tell you, I'm thoroughly disgusted by it.

Guys, I understand how you all feel, trust me, I felt the same way until I thought of it this way:

You have all this anger and rage inside of you. You want these guys caught and hung up by their bits and pieces. Suppose this, what if they aren't caught? Where has that rage gone? What has that anger done for you? Not a darn thing.

Use this experience, even though it's an awful one, as a time for personal growth and a time to let you realize what is important in your life. Use this time to send good karma to the people who need it. Use whatever you have inside you for good. Close your eyes and let the good vibes out. Even though it's been an awful day, try to get some good out of it. I know that sounds selfish and sort of assinine, but even if you can draw some good things off of this awful awful disaster, then it wasn't a total waste.

If all we get out of this bad day is anger, rage, and hate then we have done the victims and ourselves a giant misjustice.

Remember "How the Grinch stole Christmas" by Dr. Seuss? The Grinch took away all of the christmas items from the people of Whoville but they overcame. Now this is much more than Christmas, we are talking about thousands of lives but the same principle still remains. Giving into what these terrorists want is just playing into their hands. We need to rise up and overcome. Show these punks that the american spirit, the will of the people, our "mojo" if you will cannot be broken by such cowardly acts.

"See to live, is to suffer. To survive, well, that's to find meaning in the sufferring." -DMX

Patrick, please stop explaining yourself. I have friends that are missing in the WTC. I've worked in the metropolitan NYC area for over 20 years. As I drove back home over the Varranzano Bridge today and looked at Lower Manhattan in flames, it made me angry. EXTREMELY angry. The people that died in NYC today were just trying to live their lives and sweat out an existance. They were the innocent people. The people responsible for this outrage have lived so far because the countries that hide them hate, I mean REALLY hate, the USA.

Patrick, your generation isn't taught history in school in favor of Social Studies. A lot of guys here give you slack because you weren't around when the News at night gave Death Totals for the fighting in Vietnam DURING DINNER!

It's nice that you feel that we should think about these events with peace in our hearts BUT, we are talking about people that don't think the same way you do. That would kill you because you are american.

Patrick, you live a "safe" existance up there in CT. NYC is not the scary place you wrote about and I feel safer in NYC now than I did 20 years ago.

Patrick, my friends are missing, they are REAL people , They have families. Please stop trying to explain yourself on this issue. OK?

"Folks Let it Go'

Arby, I agree... Patrick, just step away 'cause everything you write is completely out of place and this is no time for it.

This is not a time for debate, it is a time to watch, to listen, to learn, to support and to pray. Retribution will come and it will be violent. That is necessary and that is deserved.

Don't dare turn your back on what's happening no matter how sickening it is. These are your countrymen. You watch and you remember.

We all owe it to anyone missing loved ones to put ourselves in their shoes and understand the absolute shock and horror and helplessness they are feeling. This will directly affect hundreds of thousands and it should affect every person that lives and breathes in our GREAT COUNTRY.

Support your family, support your friends, support our government.

Fox news & MSNBC are saying that over 4700 are missing from the WTC... I hope that it is not what earlier speculation had at over 30000

How should we as a nation react to this?

ah yes the baader mainhof gang today they are known as the black friday something ( where did I leave them brain cells ) . In 1982 they blew up the post office on my post . luckily I was in the states when that happened . They killed a few GIs when I was working as a Unit Police ( gate guard )in Mainz Germany , to get their Id cards to access American posts for bombings and whatever !
Man I hate gutless cowards .

Patrick
As far as video games go . Join the Military and they will let you play with the real thing . I was a tanker 77-84 . we used a basic video games for gunnery practice while in garrison it was known as "burst on target" nothing like the videos that are used today . Yes thay are good for hand and eye coordination , but at your age you should be thinking of joining the services to stand up for your country . We need as many of you younguns to do as much of your part as possible ( they told me I was too old yesterday at the recruiters office )

I do believe we as Americans need to have a mandatory enlistment like they do in Germany . If for no other reason to grow up !

Chris L, I heartily agree that young Patrick should enlist in the service (I was in the Army from 1977 - 1980). It's easy to put your government down without doing ANYTHING. Your not in College, I don't think you have a full time job.

I know the answer you are about to give, medical reasons. :rolleyes:

How about the Coast Guard or Merchant Marine? Once you've served your country I think you'll see the situation a bit differently. Or do you expect someone else to make sure your tushy is safe like mommy and daddy do for you?

Guys, the military isn't for me. Honestly, I'm scared. I'm scared to point a weapon at a living creature and fire, knowing I could take it. Knowing that the people on the other side probably don't have those fears. I'm sure some do but a lot don't.

I'll leave that to the people who can. After I killed someone, I don't think I'd be able to live with myself. I'd probably off myself. I doubt they would take me with my ummm problems anyhow. I promised John I wouldn't go into them but you know what I speak of.

If I get drafted, God forbid, maybe I could do something else other than killing. I'd be willing to save lives but I just don't think I could bring myself to take a life. If they wanted me to work stateside, manufacturing weapons, I could probably do that. I wouldn't care for it because I know what they would be used for but it's better then me directly killing someone.

I know that makes me sound like a coward but I know, in the end, we all have to answer to a higher power and to ourselves. I just can't justify taking a life.

Patrick.....I have never been in those situations either....but my goodness, think about it this way (killing)....

I f someone entered your home and threatened you and your family....you mean to tell me if a gun fell from the sky you wouldnt grab the damn thing and blast them away with it????? If the answer is "no I wouldnt" I dont wanna hear it because your full of S%@*!!!!!!!! and if you DIDNT do anything to stop them I would say you were a cold hearted bastard....

NOW the comparison between the two, if you didnt quite catch on, is this.....

your home =U.S.
your families attackers=terrorists

I would also just lay off.......nobody gives two poops about your video games right now.......instead try this....ride your bike past the local police or fire station and REALLY think about what has happened. THEN tell us how you feel when you see our flag at half mast...........


sorry had to say my peace....

Jenn,

I have no clue what you are talking about. Of course I am sad about this. I never said I wasn't. My brother could have been one of those victims. He got out of the world trade center just a few months ago.

I don't know what your problem is but I think you haven't truly read my posts but skimmed over them and then just posted what you wanted without feeling the true meaning of what I posted.

John responded with the videogames thing and I felt they were getting a bum rap.

If someone broke into my house, would I kill them? Depends on the situation I guess. If I had the chance, I would disarm them but I would be hardpressed to actually kill a person.

To be fair, this is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm not going into the differences but it's not the same thing.

Today (9-13), the government said that Bin Laden is their chief suspect. He can't hide in his caves forever. It is no secret that the Taliban government supports him. The President has said "there will be no distinction between those who did this and those who support them." Paybacks are a bitch.

I know everyone is tense, angry, and scared. Patrick is an easy target at times because he doesn't believe in killing. But there's a difference between not believing in something and not having any support for our government or our armed forces.
I'm sorry to speak for him but I can tell you all that he's been affected and saddened by this just like the rest of us...

Everyone deals with things in their own way. Now is a time to stick together and remember that everyone is hurting. Attacking people because we are angry and need an outlet isn't going to do anybody any good.

mindi

oops....kinda glad I lost my first reply ......there really is someone watching over me tonite.....


Patrick you are right...thats just me talking out my bum;)

Originally posted by LINESIDES
"Folks Let it Go'

Thank you LINESIDES.

This thread's direction is not exactly dripping with the dignity the victims and their families deserve.

.....looking for the "close thread" command.....

nightfighter

These colors don't run