SEOUL, South Korea - A huge explosion rocked North Korea last week but U.S. and South Korean officials said Sunday it was unlikely to have been a nuclear weapons test despite the appearance of a "peculiar cloud" over the area.

:rolleyes: when we marching in there cause that threats a growing.

1) NK is China's backyard. We can't do anything without potentially involving several billion pissy Chinese.

2) Japan, Russia and China have a lot of history and thus diplomatic leverage with the kooky NK's.

3) SK is our ally. NK has a lot of artillery and troops pointed directly at the SK capital not too far from the DMZ. The capital city would likely be heavily damaged, if not destroyed if we commenced hostilites.

4) NK is starving as a result of its isolation. They won't last much longer.

Wee Wee is right about NK...

Iran will be next if we attack anyone. These are scary times, and scary decisons will be made I'm afraid.

eben, we agree again.

opps i thought this was another political question LOL

The "Peculiar Cloud" really means nothing. Some starving NK soldier accidentally drops his smoke into the fuel room for the People's Democratic Army's missle arsenal and it's going to make a massive mushroom cloud. It's no the first time. Russians had a little problem in Murmansk in the 80s and the NKs had a massive explosion just earlier this year when a train crashed with (if I remember right) lots O checmicals onboard.

Now if it was the glowing type of mushroom cloud, China, SK, Japan and others would have noticed radiation traces in the air in dust and the like. Have not seen heard any reports of that. When Chernobyl melted down in the 80s the first public announcement was a couple days after the event when some Eroupean countries noticed abnormal radiation levels. If this was a "nuke test" we would probably know by now because the Chinese tanks would be there investigating it.

Originally posted by afterhours
eben, we agree again.
i think what will happen is that we'll hit those nuclear sites in Iran with some cruise missles and call it even... I dont think we'll do anything like we did with iraq, instead we'll hit those hard targets and warn them if they build them again we'll bomb them agian...I'm totaly agianst this strategy, but it seems to me the status quo these days :smash: dont forget that Iran is just about surrounded with Us troops being in Afganistan and In Iraq... I bet the clerics arent too happy about that.

but like Navy chief pointed out, Iran hasnt attacked anyone in a long time and If anything, I believe that their nuke program is solely for political leverage.

Originally posted by green meanie
opps i thought this was another political question LOL

Dont feel bad. We all know how easily republicans are fooled:bshake:;)

Iran hasn't attacked anyone in a long time because if they did their French, Russian, and German friends might have a mildly more difficult time selling them some of their weapon systems and nuke systems.

And they do export war and attacks in the form of Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations....

There is no way we are going to get into a real fight with Iran. Unlike Afghanistan and Iraq they actually have a military and could put up a fight. I'm not saying we couldn't still kick their butts, but if we did anything on the ground it would be no cakewalk, and we simply do not have the troops to do it properly.

I could envision air strikes if they don't meet the IAEA goals by this fall, but even this is risky. Unless we are dead sure the EU and Russia are willing to play on our side, Iran may try to play it out long enough for them to get a stronger position.

-spence

i believe that both iran and north korea are using their nuke programs for political manuveuring, both damn well know that we won't allow them to possess them. north korea wants economic aid and iran wants assurances that we won't send a tomahawk storm their way.

screw every other country . Yo Mr President go get bin laden NOW ! and shut up already . thats the terrorist we need to eliminate and his threat !

be very careful of NK very very careful .

screw every other country . Yo Mr President go get bin laden NOW ! and shut up already . thats the terrorist we need to eliminate and his threat !
Thank you ChrisL! This country has lost its war-on-terrorists direction because of our "slowdown" in Iraq. I truly hope we do not lose site of what we need to do. Some folks here may not feel as strongly about 9/11 as 3 years ago, but I still do, and the price is not high enough to get a strangle hold on those bastards and terrorism on US soil.

I wonder what this election would be like if we did catch Osama 2 years ago at that big mountian fortress in western afganistan.... I bet the american people would be feeling alot safer and would be making different choices at the voting machines this november.

Yup. Al Queda would have packed up and went home if Bin Laden was caught.
We would be all set, no more worries.

RIJIMMY Yup. Al Queda would have packed up and went home if Bin Laden was caught.
We would be all set, no more worries.

except of course for hezbollah, iran's nukes, north korea's nukes and oh yea the other zealots other then osama's regime =] u know......the plf, hamas pij(palestinian islamic jihad) to name a few but whos countin as long as bin laden's dead right?

I guess my sarcasm was lost on you.

:smash: :smash: cant tell conotation over the net cant blame me for that one!:happy:

ahh yes the peanut gallery !

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
Yup. Al Queda would have packed up and went home if Bin Laden was caught.
We would be all set, no more worries.

Cut off the head and 2 more will grow in its place.
The whole Osama game is just political crap to make ma and pa American feel good. Most terrorist organizations of this scale operate in cells that function autonomously from the rest.

"Arresting" bin Laden won't do anything but piss them off and make them fight harder as he'll be a matyr to the rest.

please see above post, I was being sarcastic :rolleyes:

Iraq beat the hell out of Iran for along time. Iran has a wimpy military and we would crush them like a peanut.

We want to be friends with Iran. They are on the verge of democracy and are a stabilizing influence in the gulf.

We'll just hang out and if they have a nuclear program, Israel will take care of it.

Originally posted by Navy Chief

We'll just hang out and if they have a nuclear program, Israel will take care of it.

yes they'll take care of it with their lobbyists in DC:smash:

Israel only runs children and crippled people in wheelchairs over with tanks (oh im sorry, those are terrorists)

They can't be expected to deal with their own conflicts without having another 4 bil pumped into them.

Originally posted by likwid
Israel only runs children and crippled people in wheelchairs over with tanks (oh im sorry, those are terrorists)

They can't be expected to deal with their own conflicts without having another 4 bil pumped into them.

If only that were the truth. The press in this country show us every time the Israelis do some thing but rarely do they show us when the Palestinians do something. I have a friend who now lives there, there are attacks EVERY DAY. There is an incredible amount of restraint being showed by the Israeli government in not simplely killing or pushing out every Palestinian. Every time the Israelis give something to the Palestinians they ask for more. Israel has every right to be there like it or not and by the way most of the Palestinians who are there were pushed out by Egypt and Jordan, Why you ask? Because those country's knew they would be able to carry out a covert war against Israel by using the Palestinians. These people NEVER had there own country and Israel has and probably will offer them such, but like they have done before they will refuse. We do give allot to Israel, what I'm pissed about is the money we give to the PLO who inturn goes to Jordan to buy more guns ect ect ect to attack with. Thanks Mr. Bill, lets give money to them and then say how much you and your blond haired Bit&h of a wife love Israel.:af: :af: :af:

Then lets look at the fact that for YEARS the Israelis have been stealing more and more land from the Palestinians.

Land that wasn't theirs in the first place, but because of the fact that the US pumps what? 3-4 billion a year into Israel's pockets (mostly military pockets) nobody does a damn thing, just rediculous "peace talks" that go nowhere and piss off one side or the other and the violence continues and escalates.

I've heard both sides of the story and even from people in peace corps type groups that have been over there. Yeah, the Palestinian terrorists are blowing up people all over the country, but the Israelis do the same to "suspected terrorist hideouts" (nevermind the fact that there could be innocent people there too... but oh wait... they can't be innocent could they? course not)
and continue to bulldoze more land that ISN'T theirs so they can build more houses for their own people, not the people who's land they totaled.

Originally posted by Navy Chief
Iraq beat the hell out of Iran for along time. Iran has a wimpy military and we would crush them like a peanut.

We want to be friends with Iran. They are on the verge of democracy and are a stabilizing influence in the gulf.

We'll just hang out and if they have a nuclear program, Israel will take care of it.



Again - the chief and I see eye-to-eye

Most of you guys are such democrats. Iwannakeeper, it's good to have an ally.

Remember that nuclear powerplant that Iraq built in the late 80's? What happened to that?

Oh, that's right, the Israelies blew it up. (without a UN resolution). You see if you are a threat to Israel, they remove the threat.

Israel learned their lesson once, we learned our lesson once. 9/11 won't happen again.

Again, Iranians want what we have. They don't want the Islamic ruling counsel to have all the power. Wait for a few choice clerics to die (maybe help them) and Iran will become democratic.

KL, the Israelis are just as guilty for the violence as are the Palestenians. I won't bother with a dissertation on this, but do some homework and it's crystal clear that there has been extensive brutality on both sides.

-spence

Originally posted by Navy Chief
Most of you guys are such democrats. Iwannakeeper, it's good to have an ally.

Remember that nuclear powerplant that Iraq built in the late 80's? What happened to that?

Oh, that's right, the Israelies blew it up. (without a UN resolution). You see if you are a threat to Israel, they remove the threat.

Israel learned their lesson once, we learned our lesson once. 9/11 won't happen again.



lets hope not

Originally posted by Navy Chief
we learned our lesson once. 9/11 won't happen again.


So you're saying we're impervious to another terrorist attack?
I suppose "Homeland Security" is now patrolling our shores 24/7 to stop any foreign flagged ship from coming in and inspecting every single one?

Riiiight.

Guess thats why illegals still cross the mexican border without any problem and plenty of contraband makes it way here via cargo ships.

All it takes is one idiot to beleive in the cause and it'll happen all over again.

it could happen again.......but i doubt to the same scale. we could be attacked of course, any one can make a bomb =] guides are available online...but i dont think we'll be seeing anything to the scale of 9/11 ever again.

Originally posted by likwid
So you're saying we're impervious to another terrorist attack?
I suppose "Homeland Security" is now patrolling our shores 24/7 to stop any foreign flagged ship from coming in and inspecting every single one?

Yes, this is true.

All foreign flagged vessels entering US ports are boarded, inspected and cleared or turned away. I am not saying this is fool-proof. Some vessels are inspected prior to departing their port of origin. If you have a panamanian flagged, japanese owed container vessel that carries 2500 containers not every container will be open. But those vessels are checked at their port of origin. Good luck trying to bring a vessel into the US from India or Pakistan. Is it fool-proof? No, but it's 300% more than we were doing before 9/11. Our intel services have changed the way that they think as well.

After the Cole incident, the Navy started taking "force protection" really seriously. It is now illegal in US waters to close a US warship closer than 100 yards without 1st communicating with us. Will we shoot you ? not right away, but there will be a security boat with weapons talking to you, or you might get pulled over by the coasties. Is it fool-proof, no, but if you break our security zone, there will be action and they escalate to deadly force.

Here's a weird example for you.
For years (and even a year after 9/11) when we did Newport-Bermuda or any other long distance offshore race to a foreign country, when we brought the boat back we never bothered to clear customs.

Why? Why bother.
Nobody cared.
Obviously because there is now the chance of legal action taken by the federal gov. thats all changed, but if someone is looking to get into this country illegally by ship/boat, its completely possible and nobody would know any better.

Navy Chief,

I agree with you that maritime security has increased dramatically in recent years, however there is a long way to go. Considering it is almost a boundless problem, much technology and cooperation between enforcement agencies need to implemented. Unless something has recently changed (which it may have) I don't believe we board and inspect every vessel that comes to our shores. The Maritime Transportation Security Act of 2002 (which was supposed to go into full effect in July of this year) is a sort of self implementing / self policing sort of legislation. Which means each ship develops and implements its own security plans. Now the USCG does do some "racial profiling" if you will. Ships that have a questionable history or fly flags of contentious contries will be boarded every single time. There is constant technology insertions in this arena. One of the hottest is container security.

Carl

I agree that the system isn't perfected yet. The Coast Guard has started boarding all vessels to verify documents and manifest. They don't racially profile anyone, but there is a watch list and certain countries are considered suspect. There are also "frequent flyer" programs implemented.

I agree that it is possible to put a WMD in a container at the bottom of a containership and not have it searched. Most major ports (well, I know LA/Long Beach for a fact) have huge X-ray and radiation detection devices that all containers must pass through.
A couple of the larger Japanese ports have these installed over there.

So, I agree it's not perfect, nor will it ever be. But it's a whole lot more than was happening pre-9/11

You know, I'd bring up the topic of Bush and allowing amnesty to ILLEGAL immigrants now being allowed to stay here and take American's jobs, but hey, who wants to hear about Bush making it harder for Americans to get jobs? :D

Originally posted by likwid
You know, I'd bring up the topic of Bush and allowing amnesty to ILLEGAL immigrants now being allowed to stay here and take American's jobs, but hey, who wants to hear about Bush making it harder for Americans to get jobs? :D

If you did that you would also have to talk about Clinton rushing them thru the naturalization process before he was reelected so they could vote. If someone just shortened the process by 6 month's to a year for me I would vote fore him was his thought and it worked.

Al Queda pack up and leave? I wouldn't count on it. There are plenty of rag-heads out there that would gladly take over to just be a marder. Osama will be caught, just a matter of time. He has way more sympathetic followers than Sadamm ever did. Start taking them out first and then maybe the beast will rear its ugly self.:err: :rocketem: :kewl: