Can you say.......Quagmyre?? (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/16/us.iraq.ap/index.html)

Why do i get the fealing you almost want Iraq to be a mess so you can brag about it and blame Bush. Its tough over there for sure but lets stop acting happy about it for political gain. Thats just sick and twisted. I will even say Bush needs to step back and let the military do its job. Stop the PC bull Sh@& and lets kick ass. If they want to use a Mosque to hide in.....Blow the Fu@*@ thing up! screw what CNN will say....Lets fight a WWII stlye fight and just kick ass and let the military do its thing. Blow the friggen place up if it will win the war faster if you ask me.

:hs: no skip I'm not happy about this at all... But this just goes to show that bush is leading us down the wrong road :smash:

Not at all....He totally did the right thing by taking out a known enenmy of the US and one of worlds worst guys in Saddam. We are trying to rebuild a nation that doesnt know what freedom is and its tough. But there is no question in my mind Iraq is a better country now and the world is MUCH safer with saddam not capable of using or aquiring WMDs and supporting terror like he did. How can one argue with that. Ive said it before and ill say it again...Bad news for the US is good news for the Dems with the election coming up. And that is totally F'ed up! We should all want to kick major ass in iraq no matter what political belifs one has. But i really get the sense the left in some strange way gets happy when bad new comes from iraq becuase it gives them something to run on this election. Thats just not right.....maybe thats not you ebon but there are alot who are like that.

if we keep this up there will be 10 osamas in the next ten years. Furthermore, blowing stuff up and killing people really doesnt bring about peace now does it??? The fact is that this is going to turn into another vietnam really quickly... we are creating more insurgnts everyday...remember, england called our patriots insurgents.... we will never win this war. and if we do tens of thousands of americans will die.

I think you've been watching too many terminator movies skip...


hasta lavista baby :bshake:

further more, think about how many people have died just to take ONE man out of office... that is disgusting

Furthermore, blowing stuff up and killing people really doesnt bring about peace now does it???


You dont know much about history do you? Just look back 60 years and see how much WE changed Germany and Japan. So yes war sometimes is the only way to bring about a stable nation. Go try and talk peace with Saddam and Osama and the palestinian terrosts and see how far ya get. They ONLY know violence and sometimes thats the only way to achieve peace and stop the slaughter. Think about it and please pick up a history book. You might learn something. Oh yea, talking has done lots of good with Isreal and the palestenians hasnt it? All that could end tomorrow if isreal decided to wipe put Hamas. Thats the only way im afaid that conflict will ever end...Mark my words on that one.

germany and Iraq actually had the weapons of mass distruction of that era...
I guess you skiped the chapter about Hitler fooling his people into believing the jews were the problem with society.. kind of like bush has fooled most americans into believing Iraq is the focal point of the war on terrorism.
you've been bushwacked into thinking Iraq is the problem skip. You'd make bush proud...I can just see him now smiling upon you like a shepard leading his sheep to slaughter.
4 more years.....:yak:

oh oh... i'm ranting agian :smash:

Originally posted by Eben
germany and Iraq actually had the weapons of mass distruction of that era...
I guess you skiped the chapter about Hitler fooling his people into believing the jews were the problem with society.. kind of like bush has fooled most americans into believing Iraq is the focal point of the war on terrorism.
you've been bushwacked into thinking Iraq is the problem skip. You'd make bush proud...I can just see him now smiling upon you like a shepard leading his sheep to slaughter.


Comparing Bush to Hitler is pretty dicey.Love him or hate him he's fooled no one,we live in an open society where info is readily available to all who wish it if they spend the time looking for it.You kinda come off as a FANATIC Bush hater.Remember he didn't fly THOSE planes or plant any bombs.Quoting sources like CNN doesn't help your agenda either.

Ask your self these three questions:Is the WORLD better off without Saddam Hussein?Is the WORLD better off without the Taliban?Will the WORLD be better off without Al-Quada?Answer these questions either yes or no.Not yes or no with an explanation just simply yes or no.I'll bet you can't.THE ONLY answers I should see is: yes/no...yes/no...yes/no.But that ain't gonna happen because you can't answer without explaining yourself.

Whether you wish to believe this is up to you but your attitude and ranting is more demoralizing to our troops than being shot at will ever be.Trust me I KNOW.

There you go again just like a good little liberal comparing Bush to Hitler. You people are friggen nutty:rolleyes:

Well said Basswipe:)

I agree with Basswipe.

The entire, "we support the troops" line doesn't mean anything without supporting the cause they are fighting and dying for.

Originally posted by basswipe
Ask your self these three questions:Is the WORLD better off without Saddam Hussein?Is the WORLD better off without the Taliban?Will the WORLD be better off without Al-Quada?Answer these questions either yes or no.Not yes or no with an explanation just simply yes or no.I'll bet you can't.THE ONLY answers I should see is: yes/no...yes/no...yes/no.But that ain't gonna happen because you can't answer without explaining yourself.
That's because they arn't the questions you should be asking. They are loaded questions to distract you from reality.

How about, should you go to war unprepared?

The President is holding course in Iraq because he doesn't want to look weak, and it's killing our guys. There is now a clear consensus that we do not have the troops in Iraq to get the job done. It's also clear that Bush has been misleading the American people on what's really going on there.

This is exactly what happened in Vietnam.

Chief, the greatist respect we can show for our troops is to recognize our faults and give them what they need to complete the mission. To continue with Bush's course of action is only going to make matters worse, and according to our own NIC could lead very soon to civil war.

Bush says Iraq is central to the war on terror. If that's the case the war on terror isn't going very well at all.

We need new leadership, and fast.

-spence

We didn't go to war unprepared. We were trained and ready. The greatest respect you can give the troops is to support our mission. Trust me on this one, I am a troop. That's why I get so annoyed with you guys. You guys talk, you wag your lips, take your butt over there and you will find out the truth.

The truth is different than what you see on CNN. On my last ship, the crew voted to shut off CNN, because it was clearly bogus and biased, the crew made the decision to watch Fox news instead.

What if Truman didn't hold the course against the Japanese ?
What if Lincoln didn't hold the course against the South ?
What if Washington didn't hold the course against the British ?

All you guys hear about Iraq is from this slanted, skewed, totally democrat CNN point of view. Why don't they tell about the Iraqi kids being able to go to school ? Why don't they tell about the oil that's flowing out? Why don't they talk about the new freedoms that these people now enjoy. Why does CBS put out forgeries as fact? What happened to un-biased, truthfull news ? Why am I hearing about what's in a classified document on the news ?

Are there issues in Iraq ? Yes. Is Iraq worth our troops dying ? Yes, anytime, we as a country can further freedom we should. And we have an obligation to do it.

Originally posted by Skip N
There you go again just like a good little liberal comparing Bush to Hitler. You people are friggen nutty:rolleyes:

Not the people.... Hitler was much more intelegent, and obviously more of a crazy finatic than Bush... I'm comparing the propaganda and scare tactics that bush and cheeney use to scare the american people into believing thier cause.

Skip and Chief, well said !

Heres one for ya -
Omaha Beach - D-day, someone, lets blame Eienshower screwed up on the bombing of the beachhead. The German defenses were barely damaged, when our troops landed, the surviival rate was less than 10%, for every 100 guys, 90 were killed.
What if CNN was there callin the minute by minute shots? Americans would have said it was an outrage, blamed Eisenhower and said the invasion was a failure.
But, as part of a the big picture, teh invasion was one of teh most successful miltary operations of all time.

We are fighint a new war in Iraq. We're bund to make mistakes and in war mistkaes end lives. I beleive in the big picture., I agree 100% with Skip, lets stop the pC crap, if Sadr is in a mosque, bomb the mosque, we're not making friends by playing nice.

Originally posted by basswipe
.Love him or hate him he's fooled no one,

um... I think he's fooled about every american that is going to vote for him in november:hihi:

RIJIMMY the only difference is that D-DAY was a battle in a war that was a noble cause. the Germans really did try to take over europe, and were killing millions of people to further their 'perfect race', and japan really did attack Pearl Harbor. Those were the reasons we entered WW2...

sorry, but the reasons we were givin to eneter the War in Iraq were bogus.
NO WMD, NO CONECTIONS TO 9/11:smash:

I generally try and keep out of politial talk and religion. But I strongly disagree with the comment that

"We are fighting a new war."

The US has put the lives of its service men and women, up against $2 bicycles, mounted with $5 rpg launchers in the past.

What I'm trying to say is its tough to win a battle when we're putting the lives of service men / women on the line also their 14 million dollar jets, against a $2 schwinn with a Rocket launcher taped onto it.

RIJIMMY the only difference is that D-DAY was a battle in a war that was a noble cause. the Germans really did try to take over europe, and were killing millions of people to further their 'perfect race', and japan really did attack Pearl Harbor. Those were the reasons we entered WW2...


Now if we went by John Kerry's philosophy we couldnt attack Germany becuase they never did anything to us right? Oh yea, just think how many lives would have been saved if the US went over to europe a couple years prior to help out the Btits. Maybe alot less jews would have been slaughtered. I meen we only went to war with germany after pearl harbor was attacked and germany declared war on us. If pearl harbor was never attacked how much longer would the US have waited to go over to Europe?? Would Ebon have favored preemtption if Germany never harmed us or declared war on the US??? Hitler was killing people by the thousands....Saddam killed thousands of people and Def was a threat to the US with being capable of supporing terror like he did and murdering his own people on a daily basis. What is Ebons theory on when an when not to use miltary force? This outta be good:rolleyes:

i think the men and women when they sign up for the military know they may be called to war and die for there country and i am proud of them!

since when is joining the military suppose to be a free ride?

easy you dont want to risk your life dont join the military it is a simple as that!

Originally posted by Skip N
[Now if we went by John Kerry's philosophy we couldnt attack Germany becuase they never did anything to us right?
:yawn:

-spence

It's pretty easy to just sit around and complain about a situation. Especially when you have no say in what goes on. Especially when the situation doesn't affect you directly. You have not entered the war in Iraq, you watch it on TV and drink beer.

You guys bash Bush because he avoided Vietnam. You say he didn't serve when he could have helped the country. That he wimped out. You guys can help the country now, and you won't serve. So quit bashing Bush about it or join up. Can you say Hypocrite.

When in a position of leadership, you are not doing your job unless somebody gets pissed off. President Bush is a leader, ask him a question, he will give you an answer. Ask Kerry a question and you will get a song and dance.

You know, in the Navy Chief community we have a rule. We argue and disagree and fight amonst ourselves in the goatlocker. Sometimes it's ugly, but when we walk out the door, we are a united front and we all abide by the decision that has been agreed on. Even if we don't like it. So, the decision has been made, support the troops, support the cause.

The citizens of Iraq have choices now, they have some small freedoms that you take for granted everyday. Therefore, our invasion of Iraq was and is a good and noble thing. So, in November, go out and exercise the right that you owe to others and would deny to others and vote for the candidate of your choice.

I feel better.

CHief I totally agree with you.. and I do support out troops. I am doing my part by trying to bring them home. Sitting by and watching a couple soldiers die every day in a war based on lies is unfathomable.
____________________________
QUOTE:
Benjamin Franklin:
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

Root, Root, Root for the home team. Man, get over there and play ball.

Lies ? Hussien is a bad guy, he gassed his own people, he invaded and wrecked Kuwait, he gassed Iran, he blew off UN sanctions for 15 years.

Lies ? Did you see the photos of mass graves ? Last election in Iraq, if you didn't vote for Hussien you were executed. Lies ? was Hussien launching Scuds during our invasion ? He wasn't allowed to have them. Again, what happened to his WMD's. He had them, where did they go?

Soldiers and Sailors die, it's a hazard of our job, tragic as it seems. It's what we signed up to do. Give freedom to those who can't get it themselves. Take down evil dictators.

Basswipe said
"Whether you wish to believe this is up to you but your attitude and ranting is more demoralizing to our troops than being shot at will ever be.Trust me I KNOW."

If you knock the cause, you knock the GI's that are fighting for it.
That, my friend is Bull-$hit.

so is this (http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=084435ac-0abe-421a-0195-7116da61b4e2&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf)

I am an army of one :D

Originally posted by Navy Chief
Root, Root, Root for the home team. Man, get over there and play ball.



hopefully the coach of our home team will be traded. :D

That's nothing Eben.

We are in the military we get orders. I've been forced to take orders on numerous occasions that I didn't want. "Needs of the Navy" we say. I didn't say "please send me to the gulf for 8 months" , but I went.

I got folks in my office that just got back from the gulf that got ordered to Baghdad for 6 months, no choice in the matter at all. We are in the military! Not Mcdonalds, not Home Depot. If they don't want to fight, they shouldn't have joined the army.

At least those guys had a choice.

You need to read that agian.. thats blackmail. I bet we'll see a draft in a year or 2. And thats with Bush or Kerry at the wheel.

It's not blackmail. It's a big choice. For some folks it would be a bad choice, for some folks it could be a good choice.

What's the purpose for the Military ? Answer: Combat

I think that most of the people in the military are against the draft. The quality of our troops will go down.

If you don't like, to late.

i agree if you sign on for combat, you signed on for combat, but if I signed on for a tour, fought my tour and came home expecting to have filled my obligations, then was told if I didnt re-enlist for another tour, I would seek a lawyer.
Think about it. This is like going to a college for a 4 year undergrad study, then before graduation, the presidint of the school tells you that if you dont sign up for graduate school, you'll have to take the same classes over agian.

If you ask me, this is an attempt from the higher command to scare our troops into staying on when these troops have done their duty.

Eben

This is the military you're talking about. You can seek a lawyer and pay him a million dollars. Makes no difference. Your CO can throw him off base before he introduces himself.

You see the standard military contract it's for 8 years, 4 active, 4 inactive reserve. The reserve time can be turned to active without your consent. (It's been this way since the draft ended) It's not really a contract. It's more like a binding document. The contract can be changed at anytime by the military. You can be forced to stay in past your initial end of obligation. No choice in this matter, we call it "stop gap"

But if you read the rest of that article, the Lt. Col. said that they probably would not send them back to Iraq with less than a year on their contract. It sounded from the article that this "threat" did not come from higher command.

If you joined the military, you joined for combat.

a draft LOL you got to be kidding.
we lost 1000 men and women we have tons of troops so they will just send some of the troops back over that came home like my friend.
my friend served in IRAQ and his biggest bitch was sleeping in sand and not having junk food LOL.. we sent all the junk food for him and his friends we could :)



Originally posted by Eben
You need to read that agian.. thats blackmail. I bet we'll see a draft in a year or 2. And thats with Bush or Kerry at the wheel.

aha.. I didnt know about the reserve system. Now that I understand this I can see the logic.

thanks navy chief:D

Agian good point Green Meanie. I think this is why Bush anounced a few weeks ago that there will be a major re-shifting of the troops world wide.. before we were in a cold war stage... I guess he will bring most troops back to the states so they can be sent to Iraq.

i think its scary and downright corrupt that we have only spent 6% of the money intended for rebuilding Iraq.

Some folks have already forgotten that Islamic militants HAVE DECLARED WAR ON US! The've bombed our ships, taken down our airliners, bombed our embassy's, bombed night clubs around the world, slaughtered innocent school children and on and on and on.....So as president I would not stop at Iraq and Afganistan. Iran's nuke facilites would have been detroyed by now, Syria would be made to come clean about recieving Saddam's WMD or else the cruise's are a comin:rocketem: The Saudi's would be made to cooperate, cease supporting the militants or else all your oil fields will be confiscated immediately. The world reacts with shock about the Iraqi prison scandel, yet says NOTHING about innocent people being beheaded. Militants bombed several church's in Iraq recently, no problem there right? Just don't go near our mosques. Are you Sh#*tin Me? Where's the outcry from the decent Muslims(if there are any) about the atrocities being done by these thugs? None, zip, nadda.... We've got the bombs so lets use them and make a "REAL" reality show:lurk: . God bless america and George Bush!

Very suspicious....

while i will not mention any presidents here and I know I sholdnt even reply to this, I will say one last thing. there are 2 trains of thought about the war on terrorism... kill em all, or diplomacy. You have to at least consider the diplomacy part. Killing is the easy way out for both sides. The terrorists have declared war on us becasue we have helped israel take land from the palestineans and out troops are on Islamic holy lands. If we adress these issues we will win the war on terrror. (you wont hear that on the news)

dont forget that the colonial patriots of america were looked at as terrorists too by the english.

eben i would agree with you on diplomacy but for one reason i think kill em all is better. did u get a chance to see the video of eugene armstrongs beheading that i had posted before the thread was deleted? if so then i think u would be more inclined to abandon diplomacy in the same fashion that these barbarians have abandoned the sanctity of human life. these militants deserve no faith worse then death, death itself may not be enough for these people.

Do you honestly think the rest of the Arab world gives a flying two cents worth about the Palestinian's problems? Its just a smokescreen, an excuse to wreak havoc around the world. Their real agenda is to turn back time (about two thousand years) to a time that was so archaic and brutal and all in the name of religion. Don't forget the Palestians lost that land not so long ago by supporting attacks on Israel. Read your history books. You gamble, you loose, sorry. If the rest of the Arab world was so concerned about the plight of the Palestinians then why is it that NO other Arab country wants them? Just my opinion:eek: