:o no need to reply to this just vote.

I support Pres B, but I truly thought the debate stunk. No real new points or new clear goals from either side. i thought Sen K finally made some points and was clear on his position. I think Bush was on the defensive when he had a lot of ops to turn it around. For style and presentation, Sen K won. For substance, direction and believeability - it was a tie. IMHO.

Didn't watch, don't plan on watching.

Debate's not going to change my mind as to who I'm voting for.

"DEBATE"

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
I support Pres B, but I truly thought the debate stunk. No real new points or new clear goals from either side. i thought Sen K finally made some points and was clear on his position. I think Bush was on the defensive when he had a lot of ops to turn it around. For style and presentation, Sen K won. For substance, direction and believeability - it was a tie. IMHO.

I totally agree. kerry finally looked like he had his act together and was on the attack. George wasn't enjoying it too much if you watched his face.
i disagree on the tie... Kerry won that one if you go by the fact that he sayed cool while W acted pretty whimpery a few times.

Not one of W's best performances i will admit. I thought Kerry Looked better and sounded better but W's message still destroyed Kerrys. I doubt anyone will change their mind over a single debate. You could tell W sooooo wanted to jump all over Kerry after all the crap he said. He did look kinda ripped. But i dont blame him for that:D

its the mark of a man whos lost an argument when he resorts to violence. bush was unable to keep up with kerry and looked about rdy to "jump all over him" as skip n just said. is that really the type u want leading ur country? is he gona "jump all over" nk 2?

I think Bush was just frustrated because his debate coach probably told him to not stray beyond the rehearsed lines. Kerry clearly put Bush on his heels for a good portion of the debate and Bush was unable to articulate a response many times.

It was much more dynamic than I had expected.

The fact that we have a president that can't pronounce nuclear, calls terrorists "folks" and is unable to string together more than 4 words without rehearsal is an embarrasment to our country.

-spence

Originally posted by fishweewee
Didn't watch, don't plan on watching.

Debate's not going to change my mind as to who I'm voting for.
Ditto

i also loved bush on pre-emptive war " the enemy attacked us"
and sen kerr.y reponse "osama bin laden attacked us saddam hussein did not attack us"
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

SPence, The fact that we have a president that can't pronounce nuclear, calls terrorists "folks" and is unable to string together more than 4 words without rehearsal is an embarrasment to our country

- he graduated Harvard and Yale and can fly a jet fighter.

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
- he graduated Harvard and Yale and can fly a jet fighter.
Doesn't mean He's a bright guy.

My issue is this. Bush didn't seem like he had any ability to formulate a response to K3rry's attacks, He could only recite canned lines. At times he would say the same thing over and over muttering and stumbling. Several times Bush's retort had nothing at all to do with the question.

It's not that He just isn't an articluate speaker, I don't believe Bush has a real understanding of the issues or an ability to think critically. Many times I've given Bush the benefit of doubt on this issue, but last night scared me to death. This guy has the football :err:

-spence

Many times I've given Bush the benefit of doubt on this issue, but last night scared me to death. This guy has the football

- and most Americans still want him to be Pres and even after the debate believe he is the better leader based on the polls


I'm going to quit now before I/we get in trouble....;)

Stop all this Bush Vs, Kerry stuff before JohnR axes us all!!!:laughs:

I can't help it :smash: :laughs:

-spence

Bush is soooo much better in a relaxed envirement...If you see him out giving speaches and talking with the people he blows Kerry away. Just something about the debate format that doesnt bring out the best in him. Just relax W and kick ass like you normaly do. I still take Bush's policy no question over Kerrys...but he just didnt look smooth on his delivery of his info. Good info and good arguments...Just didnt look like the W im used to:confused: Just one of them nights i guess...Im curious to see if the debate had any effect in the national polls....Not the ones from last night but a week down the road. I doubt there will be much change...maybe a slight jump for johney. See this people, I can be objective when it comes to politics!!!:D

"I can't help it "

Your not the only one spence!
:D

I cant help it either!
Skip, the next debate format is supposed to be more realxed, town hall type, we'll see how GW and JK do.
I used to hate this stiff now I love it. I am a geek.

The look on Bush's face explained it all... I guess Kerry brought up some topics that that the Bush campaign didn't rehearse. Bush's defense was to overemphasize on the fact that we had allies no matter how many troops they actually were, and that attacking Saddam Hussein is the best thing to do. What about North Korea and Iran? I guess the war on Saddam distracted our focus on these countries making nu"clear":rolleyes: weapons.

To be honest, Kerry had this one in the bag. Let's hope Bush is well prepared for the next one.:kewl:

Originally posted by spence
The fact that we have a president that can't pronounce nuclear, calls terrorists "folks" and is unable to string together more than 4 words without rehearsal is an embarrasment to our country.

-spence

We had another President that had a degree in nuclear physics from Annapolis, who pronounced it "nook-ular" too, and who still calls terrorists freedom fighters. Good ol' Jimmah.

Ike couldn't pronounce it either.

Good point Mike, but at least Carter and Ike could string a sentence together :laughs:

-spence

Originally posted by Skip N
Bush is soooo much better in a relaxed envirement...If you see him out giving speaches and talking with the people he blows Kerry away. Just something about the debate format that doesnt bring out the best in him.
Skip you're killing me :laughs:

The "something" about the debate format is the debate!

Did you know that Bush has been requiring campaign stop listeners to be registered republicans and even sign an oath of loyalty?

It's one thing to preach to the choir, it's entirely another thing to have your ideas challenged and be prepared to defend them.

-spence

If you were unimformed on the issues Kerry won, if you were informed Bush won...in the following week the true results will come.

I dunno Spence, a lot of the intellectual left in the 50s thought that Ike was a buffoon.

The Democrats had one of the most intelligent, eloquent and urbane candidates ever in Adlai Stevenson, who had all the personality of a block of cement. It killed the egg heads that Ike blew his ass off twice.

"If you were unimformed on the issues Kerry won, if you were informed Bush won...in the following week the true results will come"

Ummm...I'd say its more like: If you have a half a brain, you know Kerry won the debate. He might not have won your vote, but he did win the debate.

Also, I'm about as informed as one gets in these matters, and I thought Kerry demolished Bush last night. I don't see how being informed makes a difference. One candidate presented a plan, and one said absolutely nothing of substance.

Don you took the words right out of my mouth..:)

Likwid posted a few month back that "Us intlelegent people want our country back" About 90% of my friends who read the newspaper every day and pay attention to world events cant stand Bush... Then there are some of my friends who watch way too many action movies and have this twisted idea from these movies that violence is the answer to all problems, think W is gods gift to democracy :smash:
Kerry did a great job last night... W was a whimpering idiot

"Us intlelegent people want our country back"

Eben, I know its just a typo, but it was still good for a laugh :hihi:

:smash:


DURRRRR:gf: :angel: :faga:


good to see you today toooooonoc :D

" About 90% of my friends who read the newspaper every day and pay attention to world events cant stand Bush"


You must be reading that liberal NY times or the Projo:smash: :D I dont recall the last positive story about Bush.

This is kinda off topic but thought it was kinda interseting and something for the left to get annoyed with! I heard for the last quarter in ratings that FoxNews beat CNN,MSNBC,CNN Headline news all combined. Possible change in the American mindset? God i hope so!! Just something that kinda seemed fascinating to me.

"Skip you're killing me"

Thats my job on here Spence! Hey, Bush had a crappy night and i was trying my best to help my buddy out!! Thankfully he has two left to get his act together.

hate to say it but these debates will really show us what these 2 guys are really like. You hear propaganda from both sides, and anyone can stand up behind a podium and give a speach. W has been coached and told what to say by so many people that his doesnt know up form down some times, and so has the senator but these debates will bring out who these guys really are.

it was a 4th grade debate for both of them LOL..

i really think PRES BUSH was trying to be the bigger man and not play bitch slap games like kerry likes to.

if kerry has a plan why didnt he mention it? we know he was in vietnam we dont need to hear it anymore jees :smash:

its the idiots who watch MTV who will vote for KERRY.

and the spinless that are afraid of a draft that will never happen.

Originally posted by Eben
Don you took the words right out of my mouth..:)

Likwid posted a few month back that "Us intlelegent people want our country back" About 90% of my friends who read the newspaper every day and pay attention to world events cant stand Bush... Then there are some of my friends who watch way too many action movies and have this twisted idea from these movies that violence is the answer to all problems, think W is gods gift to democracy :smash:
Kerry did a great job last night... W was a whimpering idiot

ummm whatever:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Eben
ummm whatever:rolleyes:

This is a phrase commonly used by MTV watching freaks.:laughs:

MTV's target audience are 12 to 17 year olds...they don't vote.

-spence

Originally posted by KLMulder
This is a phrase commonly used by MTV watching freaks.:laughs:

why do you think i said that:smash:

Just haveing fun:laughs:

PS Hey Spence I was top salesman for the month.:happy:

MTV's target audience are 12 to 17 year olds...they don't vote

Trust me...Im 24 and lots of people my age and MOST college kids who are of voting age watch MTV. MTV is soooo far left that it scares me the kind of influence its having on the kids. I flipped it on the other day and there was a scene from one of their shows showing to gay dudes getting freaky(at least the stuff leading up to getting freaky) :eek: That aint right for kids. MTV if F@&@ing sick

Skip, don't worry about me...I think MTV is plenty sick.

KL, good job...but that was last month, what have you done for me this month ;)

-spence

Originally posted by Skip N
MTV's target audience are 12 to 17 year olds...they don't vote

Trust me...Im 24 and lots of people my age and MOST college kids who are of voting age watch MTV. MTV is soooo far left that it scares me the kind of influence its having on the kids. I flipped it on the other day and there was a scene from one of their shows showing to gay dudes getting freaky(at least the stuff leading up to getting freaky) :eek: That aint right for kids. MTV if F@&@ing sick

Skip you would've loved Wheaton College. I went there for a year and it was an interesting experience to put it kindly. I was required to take Gender Inequalities for a semester, where we had to watch "documentaries" on the "lifestyles" of trannies(2 types: transgendered and tranvestite). absolutely, positively friggin disgusting, even more so than scup hunters.

needless to say i withdrew from the class and quit school.......

sorry for the hijack.....

Bart I was wondering why you were wearing womens waders the other night:hihi:

Yea i want to spend $30,000 a year to learn about friggen trannies:smash: Thats what ya get when all the college administion is brain washed with the PC Bull Sh@#!!! Thats just some sick bastards at that school i guess. Props to you for getting outta that place.

heaven forbid skip that you might open your mind and accept those for who they want to be. Being a Tranny or whatever you want to call it is possible by what 'W' calls "freedom". Freedom to express yourself, Freedom to love whoever you want, freedom to wear what you want. This is what our troops have died for and are going to die for, and here you are bashing peoples freedoms.

You should think about this stuff while you blindly support what 'W' is doing. He is restricting certian americans freedoms, while force feeding 'christian morals' to american citizens who might not follow christianity.

And i have the freedom to call them all freaks:D

And i have the freedom to call them all freaks

Originally posted by Skip N
And i have the freedom to call them all freaks:D

And you have the freedom to vote in a manner that would limit their liberties, or grant them the freedoms that anyone deserves as a citizen of the United States.

http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html

shows kerry taking notes out of pocket?
against the rules in the debate :af:

Your right Eben they are citizens of this country and i cant argue with that. I will argue with what places like San Francisco do by offering to pay for sex changes for city employees so they dont offend them:smash: What is this world coming too!?:eek:

Originally posted by Skip N
Your right Eben they are citizens of this country and i cant argue with that. I will argue with what places like San Francisco do by offering to pay for sex changes for city employees so they dont offend them:smash: What is this world coming too!?:eek:

Sanfransisco pays for sexchanges?? Now thats wrong. Recognizing a gay couple as a bonded couple so they can make medical choices for each other in times of need, thats right.

There is a happy middleground than can be found.

Originally posted by green meanie
http://www.dailyrecycler.com/blog/2004/10/winners-never-cheat.html

shows kerry taking notes out of pocket?
against the rules in the debate :af:

someone brought their notes, and someone forgot their brain.... :D

Bush is arranging a piece of paper too if you look closely.

yes he did but it was supplied by the moderator ;)
rules state nothing is to be brought to the debate.


"Bush is arranging a piece of paper too if you look closely."

There's nothing in that video, cept for paranoia...will destroy ya!

-spence

The Three stooges all rolled up into one.
G W B.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20041002/mdf715303.jpg

My 14 yr old watched the debate as homework.
He told me that Bush is an idiot and that he makes no sense half the time when he is talking.

Originally posted by mrmacey
:o no need to reply to this just vote.

:laughs: :laughs: :laughs: :laughs: :laughs:

Can you just imagin?

Originally posted by "uffah!!"
Can you just imagin?
Classic Bush shortsightness or simply spin.

Why would other nations help the US in Iraq when we are the ones who isolated them from the process in the first place? Open up the contracts and rebuilding to a real global community and their tune will change faster than a Tito Puente conga line.

Cha cha cha.

-spence

We really should stop this. John R asked for no Bush vs Kerry talk. There is going to be a lot going on in the next month or so and I think we all just need to bite our lips and speak with our vote.

Why would our troops and more countrys be more apt to support Kerry and the US when he says we shoudnt be in Iraq and is the wrong war to fight?? Yea, thats how ya get more help:rolleyes: That sends a bad message to our troops if you ask me.

Glitz and sound bites for kerry. George looked like a dope but had some substance. I might have to vote for Nader! :)

Originally posted by Skip N
Why would our troops and more countrys be more apt to support Kerry and the US when he says we shoudnt be in Iraq and is the wrong war to fight?? Yea, thats how ya get more help:rolleyes: That sends a bad message to our troops if you ask me.
The history of why we're there is really moot at this point and Kerry needs to lambast Bush for his screwups to win.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Putting troops in harms way without proper planning is 100 times the sin of critisizing a wartime President's mistakes. Period.

-spence

This is a war though people....I dont recall any war or battle when planning was perfect or when things didnt go wrong. Go back to WWII....Every battle and major invsaion was carfully planned out and nothing ever went perfect and things ALWAYS went wrong. D-day was tough, battle of the Bulge was an utter failure of US intellegence, Anzio was a near disaster. If we had the media and all the second guessing we have now during WWII we never would have seen victory. As soon as the troops got pinned down on Omaha beach CNN would have been calling it a failure and questioning EVERYTHING. The Occupation of Germany was no cake walk either. You people just dont get it smetimes that #^&#^&#^&#^& never goes perfectly and as planned.

Any idiot could plan...:smash: not every idiot can have a good plan

You people make it sound like ONLY Bush did the planning....All the top generals were involved in the planning and right on down the line. So you guys must be saying the generals did a #^&#^&#^&#^&ty job too?:confused:

Skip, Bush ignored Generals who said we needed twice the troops to get the job done.

In the 1990's congress spent tens of millions researching what a post Saddam would look like, this work was completely ignored.

An intelligence report written just before the war predicted Iraq would become very unstable if Saddam was removed, it was ignored.

The Administration's only response to this is that they didn't think they needed a post-war plan because we would be greeted as liberators and Iraq would just be safe and happy.

2300 attacks last month and Bush maintains things aren't that bad in Iraq.

The only thing that's consistant between then and now is the lack of truth flowing from the President's lips :bsod:

-spence

Ok then, things are terrible over there so lets release Saddam back to run the place and get outta there. I meen occording to Kerry we shouldnt have been there anyway. Yea lets go home. I fault alot of this to the Iraqi people. For god sake you idiots fight for your freedom!! They are really strating to piss me off to be honest. The US has to do all the work and they sit back and bitch that we arent doing ot good enough:af: Get off your asses and help out you and fight for your freedom, kill the terroists and turn them in you morons

Why do we all even bother arguing over all this stuff....No one is gonna change their minds over anything that I say or anyone elses comments :smash: Although i does feel good to vent! But its pretty pointless to be honest:smash:

It's not completly worthless. The debate may in fact help someone to better understand what's going on, and they may vote differently because of it or it may reinforce their beliefs.

-spence

:D

Originally posted by 179
Kerry / Fonda 2004 :)
Ok, perhaps it it worthless :smash:

-spence

Being a veteran there is nothing Mr. Kerry could ever say to me whether he was a republican or democrat that could ever earn my vote.

Originally posted by The Dad Fisherman
:laughs: :laughs: :laughs: :laughs: :laughs:
Jeeez I hear ya I asked for a vote with no replys and get 5 pages wait till the boss gets back Ive allready been told once.:smash: :smash: