for 4 more years of turmoil!!`"May God bless America" we are gonna need it.:af: :af:

Lets hope for the best. So many people say that want a united America, nows the time to step up to the plate.
I've learned one thing these past few months, you cannot beleive 80% of what the media says. So much hype has been spewed that in the end is just not true. I hope AMericans open their eyes adn demand a higher level of truth in the news and not the spin that comes from the networks.

Mike,

I'm sorry if you are bitterly disappointed at the outcome.

Try to cheer up and keep some perspective.

You have your health and a wonderful family to enjoy (and maybe you'll even get some time off of work to fish!).

I find those things keep me going when things don't necessarily go my way.

did nader win ?

Mike, thanks for stopping by last night. Jenna loved the ride. Sorry you are disappointed, it is what it is. Like Ben said, have faith things will be good.

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
Lets hope for the best. So many people say that want a united America, nows the time to step up to the plate.
I've learned one thing these past few months, you cannot beleive 80% of what the media says. So much hype has been spewed that in the end is just not true. I hope AMericans open their eyes adn demand a higher level of truth in the news and not the spin that comes from the networks.

I was going to say the same thing about 'W':smash:

4 more unless the dems can manage to sue someone and get 130,000 votes thrown out in Ohio! Wouldnt put it past them to try like hell though:smash: I think the most interesting thing is that something like 25% of voters voted on moral issues. Thats an incredible abount. Thats why W won this election. To see all the Gay marriage amendments in 11 states get voted down overwellmingly was a tell tale sign that things looked good for W on moral issues. Like 75% of the people said screw gay marriage. Now why couldnt we vote on this in MA instead of the courts deciding it all??:smash: :mad: Bottom linw....Great night for the repubs picking up seats in both the house and senate and re elcting president Bush. And yes all you dems....this time he won the popular vote too!:D

"So you can see, this cluster of blue states in the northeast is where most of us will be HUDDLED IN FEAR FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS" - Jon Stewart

Originally posted by Skip N
Now why couldnt we vote on this in MA instead of the courts deciding it all??

MA would have voted to allow it.

Originally posted by Skip N
I think the most interesting thing is that something like 25% of voters voted on moral issues. Thats an incredible abount. Thats why W won this election. To see all the Gay marriage amendments in 11 states get voted down overwellmingly was a tell tale sign that things looked good for W on moral issues.
This really makes me sick. Since when to the Republicans have a freaking monopoly on "Moral Issues". That's right, Dems don't believe in family or right and wrong???

Every day in this country gays are denied health care, visitation and inheritance rights because of the freaking religious right, and thier families are probably stronger than 50% of traditional ones.

If you don't believe a gay family shouldn't have the same legal perks as a straight one...YOU'RE AN IGNORANT BIGOT. Sorry but it's true. Doesn't mean you have to redefine marriage one bit.

Skip, this isn't directed at you...just venting...

-spence

Spence we live ina whole country of ignorant bigots... If we werent ignorant bigots 9/11 would never have happened

I think people place too much emphasis on the President. The senate and the congress have more power to control the things that happen in this country by the policies they make.

I was just watching CNBC, and they are exspecting a very prosperous year for the stock market if W is elected.

You all need to look at your day to day lives, and honestly say that your life has been much worse over these past 4 years.
I know that speaking for my self, I was able to purchase a house last year because of the historically low interest rates. My 401k plan is looking up. My job is looking very secure for the next 10 years.

I know that others went hrough some layoffs, but some of them had gotten new jobs, and a couple even had more than one new job since being laid off. Some people's small businesses are thriving, I believe that Mike your business is one of them, as well as Mr. Habs.

One thing about the gay marriage issue. I am not against it, however I belive that men and women should be afforded the same rights with out getting marriedthen, gay or not. Health insurance, the right to SSI, and such.

Am I concerned about the deficit, yes I am. I don't think that by putting Kerry in would have made a significant dent in it though. I also feel that as a taxpayer, I would like to see less of my money going to social programs, unless those programs are overhauled. I am sick and tired of hearing about people coming here from other countries, and getting Medicaid, food stamps, etc. Then hearing about hard working people, who have been in this country for years getting shut out of those same benifits. Is our country perfect I think not. Can we change America maybe .

I am happy with my life, and thats all I can say

:humpty: yeah baby, that was sweet! Someone wake Kerry up so we can get on with the party.

a few thoughts:

For me the highlight of the night was seeing Tom Daschle go down in flames...good riddance! That guy was an as*hole.

With a 3.5+ mil popular vote margin
a clear majority (first since 1988)
increases in the house
increases in the senate
senate incumbent minority leader voted out (yippee)
record turn out on both sides
5 dem representatives retired...all replace by republicans.

I think it is pretty clear the nation is moving slightly to the conservative side.

08 will be exciting too. I am predicting it will be a Hillary Clinton vs. Bill Frist battle and Frist will win big.

Looks like Edwards is out of a job now too, his own state NC did not even support the ticket.

Obama seems like a smart and articulate guy, he has potential but he has to change that name.

The US map was bleading red, the libs only have big support in inner cities these days, IMO they have a few decent canditates who are sincere but need to take a hard look at the party platform. The obsession with power, win at all costs, and "anyone would be better then Bush" statements they made in the primarys really shows where there heart is.

Big night for the majority of the nation!


Now that this is behind us (no matter which side you are on) enough about politics, lets focus on fishing for the next 4 years here at sb.com

God Bless America...

Eben, do you really beleive " If we werent ignorant bigots 9/11 would never have happened"

You really think that 9/11 is our fault? Who do you blame? You cant say GWB, BIn Laden has been attacking the US years before GWB was in office. Its truly frightening that you beleive that.

I would have bowed out gracefully if JFK won, but you guys can't do that. The Dem tactics to scare the youth into voting to avoide the draft did not work. GWB has thd largest popular vote in HISTORY. Time to move on, you want a unified country? Then work for it!

Democratic tactics to avoid a draft?
Everyone knew there would be no draft.

On October 5, 2004, the House of Representatives voted 402 - 2 to defeat H.R. 163, the bill cited as proof that the Selective Service was preparing to reinstate a military draft. The vote made official what has been a reality since January 7, 2003, when H.R. 163 was introduced despite nearly total opposition in Congress to restoring the draft. Without Congressional support, the draft cannot be reinstated. A similar bill languishes in the Senate.

Both President George W. Bush and Senator John F. Kerry have stated for the record that they oppose a draft. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld also has opposed the draft on numerous occasions.

Since 1980, the Selective Service System has discharged its mission of preparing to manage a draft if and when Congress and the President so direct. The House action proves that the Selective Service has gotten no such direction. That being the case, the Agency will maintain its readiness as required by law, and to register young men between the ages of 18 and 25. That mission has been reaffirmed frequently by successive Administrations and by Congress under the leadership of both parties.

www.sss.gov


Charlie Rangel put out the bill for a draft because he wants the sons of senators to serve in iraq, not just poor voulunteers. It was sort of an anti-war in iraq bill more than a pro-draft one.

I have listened to the news for the last 3 days. One of the factors that most believed would motivate the youth vote was the belief that Bush would reinstate the draft. See below from USA today.........


Edwards: No military draft if Democrats win
PARKERSBURG, W.Va. (AP) — Vice presidential candidate John Edwards promised a West Virginia mother on Wednesday that if the Democratic ticket is elected in November the military draft would not be revived.

During a question-and-answer session, the mother of a 23-year-old who recently graduated from West Virginia University asked Edwards whether the draft would be reinstated.

"There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," Edwards said, a statement that drew a standing ovation.

And I'm sure Bush was saying the same thing.

Gah, its like you ignore the spin cycle.

Spence we live ina whole country of ignorant bigots... If we werent ignorant bigots 9/11 would never have happened
:hs: a sad commentary. Maybe you should not say anything at all Eben :(

I think Eben articulated himself poorly. It wouldn't be the first time :hihi:

What I believe he means is that 9/11 happened as a radical response to US foreign policy over many years. We certianly didn't deserve it, but it would be foolish to think our behavior didn't in some way shape the actions that led to it.

It's the absolute denial of this which makes the Bush foreign policy extremely dangerous to our future. We don't have to ceed anything, but we do need to listen to what history has to teach. Otherwise we'll continue to make the same mistakes, and as we all know the stakes are now much higher.

That's what you meant Eben...right???

-spence

75% of the vote in the midwest was pushed by fear of terrorism.

sorry guys, i don't think walmart or grain silos are a prime target.

Originally posted by likwid
75% of the vote in the midwest was pushed by fear of terrorism.
I think the single most damning accusation was that Kerry was a liberal against the military. I've spoken with many who believed the Bush claims lock stock and barrel.

Unfortunately for Kerry these claims were wild fabrications by the Bush Admin. I guess it's the Dems fault they didn't counter effectively, but it's sad to see an Election won on lies.

-spence

It's over!

Kerry has phoned Pres. Bush and has conceded by telephone. He will make a public announcement at 1:00p.m.

Originally posted by likwid
75% of the vote in the midwest was pushed by fear of terrorism.

sorry guys, i don't think walmart or grain silos are a prime target.

But the US as a whole is a target and that should matter to everyone.
Get over it Likwid, GWB won, fair and square. JKerry said it best, if you are happy with the last few years, vote for the Pres, if you want a change vote for me.
The people have spoken, lets move forward.

Originally posted by spence


I guess it's the Dems fault they didn't counter effectively, but it's sad to see an Election won on lies.

-spence

You are right Spence, Kerry lied and the voters called him on it.:smash:

Originally posted by RIJIMMY
But the US as a whole is a target and that should matter to everyone.

Terrorists don't target walmarts.
They target things that will cause an impact.

And those things aren't 1500 miles away from us.

Originally posted by spence
I think Eben articulated himself poorly. It wouldn't be the first time :hihi:

What I believe he means is that 9/11 happened as a radical response to US foreign policy over many years. We certianly didn't deserve it, but it would be foolish to think our behavior didn't in some way shape the actions that led to it.

It's the absolute denial of this which makes the Bush foreign policy extremely dangerous to our future. We don't have to ceed anything, but we do need to listen to what history has to teach. Otherwise we'll continue to make the same mistakes, and as we all know the stakes are now much higher.

That's what you meant Eben...right???

-spence


thats exactly what I meant... I had a screaming baby next to me and i was rushed.

Had the US treated Palestine with respect, and had the US pulled its troops out of Saudi Arabia after Kuwait, non of this would have happened.. (or at least thats my opinion) Out country is hated world wide because of our arrogance. Bush's actions with the UN before Iraq clearly show we ddont care what anyone else thinks.

9/11 should have been a wakeup call to forreign policy gone wrong but instead it was the match which ignited a war caused by our cowardness. (attacking another country because we were scared of them) the shame:hs:

End of discussion please - And we're not having 4 more years of political talk like this. I'm really tired of it so I'm going to modify the no Kerry -v- Buch debate until the election to for the forseeable future...


Just, nobody wins in this argument