I gotta say, very few of you guys make darters... Is there a reason for this?? This past season I fell in love with teh darter at a few of my spots... I've got some in the works here.. not sure how they will swim.

I've made a half dozen or so of different hardwoods. I made them with no weight and haven't had any troble with the action. That one in the pic has a nice shape and should swim well.

eben i have some blanks that are masters I will try to take pics.

The one thing that i should have done was to bring the upper lip back a bit. This would make the lower lip a bit larger, and i think thats what makes it wiggle and dart. I just did these by :eyes:

eben the plug will wiggle like that you have made.

Originally posted by Eben
The one thing that i should have done was to bring the upper lip back a bit. This would make the lower lip a bit larger, and i think thats what makes it wiggle and dart. I just did these by :eyes:

it's not too late, you can still take some out of it

heres a good comparison of lips..

mine-

tattoo

beachmaster

supahstrike

Does anyone what wood the Beachmasters are made out of.. they are my favorite darter:love:

I make a killer darter i simply copied a 3oz wooden musso.made it out of hard maple an it swims pissa.6 inches no weight.i put one up on the MAC auction and should be in the next bunch on SOL.I drill the front line tie hole down an then pick it up from the rear it makes it a pain to wire but after i epoxie it in it never comes loose or pulls up.This is important as many i have seen an fished with come out of tune very easily an don't work well after a few fish.the reason i don't do many is the hard maple is really hard an I'm to lazy to constantly sharpen my tools as they gotta be razor sharp to do the right job.If u wanna see how its done right I suggest u win the bid when the auction comes up.Might sound cockey but i just copied the way another one of the many masters designs an did it the way he did.

Nib..I used Red Maple, do you think its a big difference?

I'm tossing this beachmsater in my hand and its got to be hard maple if it is in teh maple family.. I dont have a scale, but its alot heavier than mine. Tattoo's and mine weigh the same.

I hear ya about sharp tools, and Today i remembered that my drillpress' belt was set at a medium speed, which was making my bits wander.. Once I sped it up to high, all my drilling was straight as an arrow :D

Metal lip makes his out of rock maple no weight. they swim deeper than most .best in some moderate current.. .not shure what the lip cuts do i have varied some from one to the next i think line tie placement a slope of the top makes it do what it does most.The darting action comes from the boyancy of the plug workin against the design to pull it down.Some are better for faster water an some for slower water.as the darting action is a kin to a plug burning out of the water.there is a fine line.

Nice shape Eben. What color?

Not sure on the red maple is that the chinese tree in the front yrd.they get big money for those.when I went to exotic lumber dude they had hard an rock i asked the guy which was harder he said hard.could just be what they call it.mine is smaller than the BM an Tatoo's.which i think makes it cast better....tough to get a better built plug than a Beachmaster.he's been at this a Long time.

Thanks Nib... I figured that the higer the loop, the more it would want to dig and Vise versa- Also, I would bet that a very round loop is super important so your snap can slide up the loop as the darter digs in... I have 5 here that are ready to seal and I wonder if I should put some lead in one or 2 and see how they act-
I'm getting into these and they werent that hard to make-
To anyone wanting to try a darter, the key is a bandsaw and to leave the squarestock on teh tail so you can get all your holes and lip cuts square- once all your cutting is done, then and only then should you cut off the tail stock-
as for colors- ya cant not have a yellow darter:hihi: so yellow, black, white, and maybe a black/gold one- nothing fancy

here are a few dartersC:\Documents and Settings\Dad\My Documents\My Pictures\lure\darters1.jpg these are made from hard maple or rock maple. red maple is a soft maple it is not as dense as hard maple.

made these 4 years ago
maple

http://bmwoodworking.com/LURES/darters.JPG

Nice darters guys:D FishinVT i was just reading some old posts of yours over at SOL about darter making.... very helpful, thanks :D

Slip I dont have any Slip darters :mad: :hihi:

Originally posted by Eben


Slip I dont have any Slip darters :mad: :hihi:

ya, well I don't either :( I need to make some

all gone, hoed and lost. ask weewee where his slip darter is :wall:

http://bmwoodworking.com/LURES/mintjulepdarter.JPG

Slip i have one.. its seXXXy

jack frech style montauk darta

Is the hook hangers where frech has em in the Diagram??.I heard good things bout LIfishes darters.i have a coupla Oz darters very nice.as far as colors i paint mostly what i can't buy.Like cool pinkanpearls an black an pinks like the old bomber color got em on a trip to RI wit that one. an Chartruesians i like the minty green one slip is holdin u cant get that color Hahn used to do that color very good fish getter for me.If ur gonna weight em make the hook hangers like a Gibbs 2 5/8's an put the lead in the same spot.i made some out of ayc i did like that an they work good.

I haven't made a darter yet,, just doing other things and waiting for more knowledge.. Does everyone that you guys make peform well ? That is a plug that if it isn't made perfect in everyway,fails in the water, rolling out and coming in upside down .. I've seen it with my own eyes,,by great builders .. no names.. what makes them roll out like that and I mean easily ,, The cut ? The slope ?
the wire placement as nib refered to ? . Ifish Vt has it down pat ..makes a great darter... never had a nib .. any thoughts on this ..

I posted this before. It was a discarded Bassmaster Blank that was supposed to be something else. I chopped it and sanded down the face. No cut but it swims very nicely. It's maple.

you guys are killing me, gotta run downstairs and try! :smash:

Eddie not all my darters have swam good an like i said i'm not sure if the front makes much difference as log as its close.I don't own a Creek Chub darter but iknow the mouth on them is very different.I think if u translate the front to stainless lip philosophy more angle makes it wiggle more an less angle makes it go down more but the top figures into the equasion also.I think the line tie should be in the center of the plug an on top of the slope.i like to make the top part 2 cuts the first cut where the line tie comes out shuold be short an sharp then the second part slopes bout halfway to the back of the plug.like a Gibbs.I have several of the smaller gibbs not swim at all no matter how i changed them up.like i said its a balance thing its the tail fighting the front.mess around with it an see what u come up with.them plastic superstrikes are some of my favorite ones they swim probably the shallowest of all production ones an it u look at the clear ones an see the lead u wonder how they swimm at all.but the lead placemnt being place horizontal on the bottom like that is a good place to put it i have toyed with that idea also.

just a thought....although I've never made one,,I look at the top of the plug an see atleast half the wood gone...now to my way of thinking[even with hardwood] that without lead in the belly and most of the wood on the bottom side, any plug is going to roll out upside down. I see two types of darta's being built,,,,chuppy an thin....will the real darta please stand up:confused: I have a Danny p, it's by far the largest darta I,ve seen to date...should I try my hand and copy this one??

Originally posted by thefishingfreak
nice.
fuax grain:hihi:

bet yer butt Mike that is faux grain :D I apply it in the primer stage and it shows though the paint. The trick is all in the paintbrush you use for primer :D and the primer drying fast.

Originally posted by NIB
.but the lead placemnt being place horizontal on the bottom like that is a good place to put it i have toyed with that idea also.

Yep

me too, especially with ayc darters

Originally posted by NIB
Eddie not all my darters have swam good an like i said i'm not sure if the front makes much difference as log as its close.I don't own a Creek Chub darter but iknow the mouth on them is very different.I think if u translate the front to stainless lip philosophy more angle makes it wiggle more an less angle makes it go down more but the top figures into the equasion also.I think the line tie should be in the center of the plug an on top of the slope.i like to make the top part 2 cuts the first cut where the line tie comes out shuold be short an sharp then the second part slopes bout halfway to the back of the plug.like a Gibbs.I have several of the smaller gibbs not swim at all no matter how i changed them up.like i said its a balance thing its the tail fighting the front.mess around with it an see what u come up with.them plastic superstrikes are some of my favorite ones they swim probably the shallowest of all production ones an it u look at the clear ones an see the lead u wonder how they swimm at all.but the lead placemnt being place horizontal on the bottom like that is a good place to put it i have toyed with that idea also.
musso makes the best darter I have seen you internet queen

Here's a few from last year.

(attachement was too big, I'll try again)

I gots to make one of these Jointed ones :humpty:

Here goes again ...

I made these about fifteen years ago. I made ten of the bigger ones in variuos colors ( Bliz has a blue/white one in his display thingie I gave him and Slip grabbed an all black to copy when he was over a couple weeks back) The little one is the last of the smallest ones I made in jointed and of the ten or so I made of these this too is the last one. ( I gotta make more) I made a much bigger version and Jim Greicci took it and was considering making a version then he sold the company and I never got my one and only test one back.

ohh I like where this thread is going!!!!

Rich- those are some cool darters.. how do they swim??? they remind me of a bottle plug.

Flaptail- you read my mind!!!! that jointed darter i posted had inspired me to try and make a darting needle.... long and skinny... a nice little slope on the nose..... basically exactly what you posted :kewl: Did those catch well for you when you were fishing them?

Oh yes! The trick, as in needle fishing, was S-L-O-W-L-Y retrieve them and they snake thru the water. I can't wait to see Slip's version.

:cool:

I been to Slips an his garage is a graveyard for proto's an plugs to copie.:D good luck ever seen one o those.CS gave him a plug to copie I think CS turned it drilled it an did everything but the prime an paint.an he still aint put it together.

Originally posted by capesams
just a thought....although I've never made one,,I look at the top of the plug an see atleast half the wood gone...now to my way of thinking[even with hardwood] that without lead in the belly and most of the wood on the bottom side, any plug is going to roll out upside down. I see two types of darta's being built,,,,chuppy an thin....will the real darta please stand up:confused: I have a Danny p, it's by far the largest darta I,ve seen to date...should I try my hand and copy this one??

it comes in upside down when it pops out of the water.If u could match the Danny P.to a beachmaster. u would see they are similar.Musso's wooden one is closer to a Tatoo but its smaller in diameter.kinda between a tattoo an a Gibbs.copie a gibbs 2 5/8 an make it a little fatter with the head just a little smaller than the middle.an u basically have it My Favorite.No Lead....

Originally posted by NIB
I been to Slips an his garage is a graveyard for proto's an plugs to copie.:D good luck ever seen one o those.CS gave him a plug to copie I think CS turned it drilled it an did everything but the prime an paint.an he still aint put it together.

Ha ha ha , you funny guy

that CS is a master copy to model after, it stays as is.

I want ALL the plugs :D every plug ever made:soon: :devil:

NIB..what I have noticed on some [that won't b seen on any site] is that the upper lip? is very small,,and the lower lip is at a steeper angle than what I've seen on most....these plugs were slim as well,,,on straight an jointed as well. the backs were cut almost to the rear and the line loop was further up from the smaller upper lip.

heres a lupo darter from mr tattoo's collection :D

Hey Steve how bout postin a pic of the lip.Ebster. nice pics. the mussuo is just like that but the tail is turned thinner I like it better like that I think it casts better an looks more groovy.I made one this smornin like a bob hahn stubby 5 inches an 1 3/8 at its widest part i just sealed it so I'll see how it swims later.One of those LI guys made one like it also.I think BM it wieghs 2 oz.

Nib whats your feelings on hooks? One forward of middle? or 2. I made all of mine with one hook- I always rig up my beachmasters with one 4/0 on the head and thats it- When I do this to the BM's they really dig deep, as the head is heavier..

Nib...sorry no pic's...I was lucky to get to see the plugs...as they r hidden under the guy's truck seat and never get taken out if there's anyone else is around.....secret chitt don't ya know:rolleyes:

cs, like this lil guy from 'bay

not darters, but i think these are Musso dannies...

wonder how many fish they caught??

Some more Darter porn.... I think i'm getting obsessed with these :hihi:

:drool:

Nice pic are they urs.

no they are SOL member's... i dont remember who made the ones with the fancy paint and the lower one was posted my Paulbo.

darter

ahhh darters :D

Now the question is... "when do you throw a darter?" Goosefish opened my eyes to darters, and then Tlapinski proved to me that darters arent just for fishing outflows... June cant come fast enough :crying:

Eben there are four musso's in that last pic.one thin one looks like the last wooden one maybe a proto to his plastic model.

Breezy........that lip looks like the same one:kewl:

Originally posted by NIB
Eben there are four musso's in that last pic.one thin one looks like the last wooden one maybe a proto to his plastic model.
yer right... in paulbo's post he said that that the ones on th eleft were musso's... except for that ditaki (sp?) on the top.
I just got some hard maple from a friend so i'll give it a whirl tomorrow :bo:

in NJ I always have one or 2 in my bag I am partial to the gibbs.Any time i have a sweeping current i will break one out.I have done good with the yellow,Bl.purple an black scale.i have one 1 1/2 one in black an silver bottom thats killed for me.Actually I don't care for em in a direct outgoing pull as they seem to pop out more frequently.In Montauk i prefer the Super strikes dark colors an white an pink an yellow an white an chartruese an white.had many good nights on a chartruese an white.Seems for me the thinner profile ones always produced better.I fished watch hill one time an i threw a black an purple one I made.i did pretty well throwin at this school bus sized rock till the water disappeared.

I have one in a package made by a NJ guy name berksomething.Called em Surf Master Lures from neptune NJ.i had a chance to buy 1200 turned blanks for almost nothing but i didn't return the call fast enough he made them prbly15- 20 yrs ago an made a mint wit em in montauck i never see em on any of the post's of darters people put up.One of the nicest through wire production darters i seen.he paid some one to turn the bodies an would do the rest.

Thanks nib.. I agree about casting straight down current, One night i learned my lesson when I only brought darters with me and the tide was really cranking....I had to switch to jigs because my darters were rolling out.
My next batch will have more of a taper in the tail and i'll turn the body a nit narrower. Also it looks like those mussos have a slight taper in the nose too so i'll give that a shot-:D

Originally posted by Eben
ahhh darters :D

Now the question is... "when do you throw a darter?" Goosefish opened my eyes to darters, and then Tlapinski proved to me that darters arent just for fishing outflows... June cant come fast enough :crying:
there are 2 musso's hanging up there.
1 is black and the other pink
i like yellow darters at chatham inlet and i toss 3 hook gibbs in the bay in june some times.
but my fav is the inlet
I use to throw them in the canal in the 70s and 80s and still have the same blue and white darter I bought from Bunny
the lips use to get messed up on the rocks.
they make there rounds in the bag
but the inlet aint been as good as it coulda been.
I snapped a 1083 xra on a yellow darter tatto made me
10X10 and I was beating the %$%$%$%$ out of nice bass, they would stop on the needle and turn on the darter and vice versa.
I made some really nice darter and lost them but i have the master blanks still for my desighn.
dont make many as I dont toss them alot so My stash is good.

Very little taper in the nose look at the bottom its almos flat.

Originally posted by bassmaster
there are 2 musso's hanging up there.
1 is black and the other pink
i like yellow darters at chatham inlet and i toss 3 hook gibbs in the bay in june some times.
but my fav is the inlet
I use to throw them in the canal in the 70s and 80s and still have the same blue and white darter I bought from Bunny
the lips use to get messed up on the rocks.
they make there rounds in the bag
but the inlet aint been as good as it coulda been.
I snapped a 1083 xra on a yellow darter tatto made me
10X10 and I was beating the %$%$%$%$ out of nice bass, they would stop on the needle and turn on the darter and vice versa.
I made some really nice darter and lost them but i have the master blanks still for my desighn.
dont make many as I dont toss them alot so My stash is good.

What happened to the mac Darter.

Originally posted by NIB
What happened to the mac Darter.
the one i made what about it and whats your point

I didn't see it that was a nice paintjob.Whats ur point.

you guys kill me :laughs:

Just spun up this one.. what do you guys think?? its narrower at the snout and has more taper in the tail

* now that i see this as a picture i can tell I screwed up the taper in the nose :smash: time to make another one:D

Eben,
Don't chuck it. I collect screw ups. That looks like a good plug from here!
Dan;)

Some more of my little collection ( I am bored I am snowed in)

And these misc. ones

:thanks: :think:

Originally posted by NIB
I didn't see it that was a nice paintjob.Whats ur point.
i dont know, i like you better when your tired
that one swims nice
i dont make alot of them maybe i will fish darters in a few yers:confused: i like Fartham inlet with them things and p bay
its funny I use to throw bottle plugs but have not in so long
i guess Ya get into what ya get into.
whats Your point:confused:

Flap, your top pic there, bottom darter with sparkles and olive looks very CreekChubish

Good eyes there Bruce. That's because it is. In box with Catalog insert. 7400 series I believe. I fished that thing a couple times then figured I better not anymore and put her back in the box.:D

I don't remember the painted eyes on em.

batch 3 :smash:

Eben, you may want to extend the lower lip a little more, to help with the initial dig

Thats a good idea Krispy- I just wish i didnt cut off the tailstocks:(

Originally posted by Slipknot
Flap, your top pic there, bottom darter with sparkles and olive looks very CreekChubish

Thats a 7600 Surf Darter, money plug, hard to find in that condition

Ebby make some wit the eye in the rear like a squid an Paint accordinlgy add bigfeatherysiwashtailhook. no plug made resembles the action of a squid more than a darta.some of my best nights usin one was when squid where present.

Nib i did that on one of them.. the place i hammered the fish in June with dartahs is a herring run inlet so these are going to mostly be herring-

but i hear ya... about the squid resemblance:D

Used Homemades with some Mileage on them (all have caught fish) .

Duplicates of

Left 2 of BeachMaster 3oz (Hard Maple)

Next 2 Frech Medium (Birch)

Beachmaster 2oz

Right two are gibs 1 5/8 clones

Nice Darters paulbo :kewl:

Originally posted by Eben
Nib i did that on one of them.. the place i hammered the fish in June with dartahs is a herring run inlet so these are going to mostly be herring-

but i hear ya... about the squid resemblance:D


Thats the nicest one so far body shape wise.Paint it rustoleum copper an add some pearl white fog an chamleon violet streak down the sides if u don't got that spray a pink or red underneath an lightly for over it with the copper.find some of the silver sparkles that look black an add some o that to the finish.Then send it to me.:D

ohhh Copper:love: Habs gave me some copper needles and I was suspicious at first fo that color- The fish thougt they were tasty-
It will take me a while to paint- I'm waiting for a new airbrush.

as for a plug, you'll get one for all the help you've givin me.. maybe I will call you Yoda for a while:D

Looking good Eben.:btu:
I hope I can do as well.
I need an Eben plug....:D

I prefer David Carradine....Snatch the darta from ur hand .weedhoppa.

A few of mine:

BM - Don't forget that Pink Musso is mine.

Flaptail - Black Musso - you dont need that do you? I wont even ask about the gibbs squid.:smash:

Tattoo has a nice collection of darters.

Superman will have to reverse the planets rotation an turn back time in order for him to get that back from BM.

the Gibbs squid is cool Flap has the most unique gibbs collection i ever seen.

Some large Musso's:D

Medium Musso's:D

Originally posted by tobias
Some large Musso's:D

Andy, ya been holdin out on me. You don't need all those yellow ones do ya?

Baby Musso's:D

Jointed Musso:D

:drool: :drool: jointed darter

Small Hahn:D

Medium Hahn:D

Large Hahn:D

Hey Dave - Might be willing to let go of one of the yellow ones. I'll bring them with me the next time I visit:D

Originally posted by tobias
Hey Dave - Might be willing to let go of one of the yellow ones go. I'll bring them with me the next time I visit:D :happy: :happy: I'm sure we can work out a trade:happy: :happy:

Nice Hahn collection.

Originally posted by Eben
Nice Darters paulbo :kewl:

Thanks Eben

One additonal think I learned is correct weight. Some in the middle or none at all on hard maple. Too much weight especially in the back will kill your darter.

Tobias,

Great collection. Want to jump right out and snatch them.

Paulbo

Very nice. very very nice.Hows that for some smoochery.

Lemme try this again.

Try another one.

Same midnight blue darter, different view.

Tobias!!!! :humpty: :humpty: now after seing those musso's it looks like he takes less wood off the top than say a beachmaster or a gibbs-

Flukinnuki- very nice darters-

progress report
I painted up some today at work and now I have to Wire some up.. Nib, I mean KUng FoO guy, I got some copper paint :hee:

Nice Nooki...

Good one ebby, now wax ka an sand froor.oops wrong movie.

Bump to the future. Some interesting stuff in here from before NIB forgot more than I know, and Eben still fished plugs.

Great BUMP Numbskull, I can't wait to start making darters...I got a ton of maple to spin up! Good info here!

And some darter jigs!!! I cant get those angles consistently right.

But I can't get other stuff right either.

Bump to the future. Some interesting stuff in here from before NIB forgot more than I know, and Eben still fished plugs.
hey I still fish plugs. :fury:

Bump to the future. Some interesting stuff in here from before NIB forgot more than I know, and Eben still fished plugs.


I hate reading my old post's I was so sure of myself.
I think I know less now that I think I might know something.
I know this, I still like darters and bottle plugs.Give me some sweeping current, and nice slow retrieve.Only to have it interrupted by the strike.It doesn't get any better than that.
The thing about darters is that the emulate so many bait fish well,From snapper blues,herring,spike weaks to squid.If you have small bait present there's a good chance your gonna have some squid with em.A darter with it's sweeping side to side action is basically the only plug made that does not track straight in.IMO it is best at emulating the darty stop and start swimming actions of squid.Something to remember next time your just reeling one in.
Get funky wit it.
That being said most darters that have a good side to side sweep will run the risk of popping out,They are generally more broad in the face.Better used in less current,still a good plug.There is a fine line to optimum action and coming in upside down.Thinner ones like the SS will track in straight.Don't believe all that is written the Plastic ones are not all created equal.Some swim better than others.It may take some hook tweaking to get the desired results..With all of the wooden creations I have made or fished with. I am coming to the realization that thinner profiles catch better for me.It is so easy to get a fatter plug to do what I want I just don't seem to get the desired results,catch wise.Food for thought.

hey I still fish plugs. :fury:

Sorry, my bad. :tm:
Send me your address, I owe you one.

.With all of the wooden creations I have made or fished with. I am coming to the realization that thinner profiles catch better for me.It is so easy to get a fatter plug to do what I want I just don't seem to get the desired results,catch wise.Food for thought.

There is definitely something in this. I've also begun to believe that long thin profiles tend to trigger a strike reflex in stripers, even when the artificial looks all wrong. I think this has a lot to do with why tubes and needles work so well.

I have to agree with this %100... thinner seems to imitate more styles of bait fish, I do make a short stubby darter that works well in the spring, but I've never done well with it in the fall...

This thread is killing me.

Sorry, my bad. :tm:
Send me your address, I owe you one.


really?? :hee:

George, you owe me one too and a banana :walk:

Here's a few of mine, I've got more pictures somewhere, I guess it's time to clean up the files on my home PC....

The plain darters are 7 1/4" birch darters, inspired by Jack Frech

The one decorated with the fish, is a 4 1/2" maple darter...

really?? :hee:
Yup, if you'll use it, I'll send it.

My thoughts on thinner profiles. Most baitfish are thin side to side and most plugs are fished near the top of the water column, so if a fish is looking at a plug from below the thin profile emulates the body profile better.

Yup, if you'll use it, I'll send it.

of course I will use it..

PM on its way..
thanks!

Bump again. Good read

Dear God my head is spinning from all this. Glad the existentialist in me is extremely happy I haven't been able to start making lures yet as this thread showed me waaaay more details. And a bonus schematic! Though, it'll be interesting making these things out of Pine.

Oh man... Seeing this thread agian got me wanting to fire up the lathe agian. :drool:

I miss flaptail :(
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

Oh man... Seeing this thread agian got me wanting to fire up the lathe agian. :drool:

I miss flaptail :(
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

More inspiration? This one works great.

It was touching reading all these posts and coming across Flaptails writings.

This should get your hearts racing...

This should get your hearts' racing...

Soon will have that covered.

Soon will have that covered.

VERY NICE!!!!! Would love to fish one of those darters in Montauk!!!

This should get your hearts' racing...

very nice collection! always wondered if the jointeds were big producers

Soon will have that covered.

as will I once i get done turning bowls and bracelets for Christmas...

I promised myself that I will wait till after christmas to disappear into the cellar and my wife agrees with me.

bump again

Great thread! Darters were my number one producer last season, as long as the water was moving even a little they got first pick out of the bag.

Funny because I started last year having zero confidence in them, then changed my technique and method and put a lot of fish and some quality ones at my feet.

Great plug, need to get a couple bigger tattoo plugs once Kevin starts making some again.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

well now I need to hear your technique and method. I have no problem making them just catching quality fish with them.

I have the best luck fishing them over a rocky bar with at least a little sweep. Start with a Superstrike, it's a nearly perfect darter

well now I need to hear your technique and method. I have no problem making them just catching quality fish with them.

Paul my method is stupid easy! After reading zenos the art of Surfcasting with lures book I took a lot away from the darter chapter, it's a great read.

I use to fish my darters very fast and erratic, lots of twitches and steady to fast retrieve, never caught on them and had zero confidence on them. then after reading that chapter I changed my technique.

A slow steady retrieve similiar to how I fish a needle, then every 4th or 5th full crank I give the rod a short tap, with a open hand on the foregrip. then pause, then repeat. Works like crazy.

Fishngrega was my darter guru! This kid would outfish me 6 to 1 throwing darters while I was throwing redfins or needles, so I'd put on a darter but still nothing.

Wasn't til I watched him and read that chapter and put it to use that it clicked.

I feel like I missed out not fishing them more or earlier.

One spot has a very slow water moving over a bar, I throw past the bar so it's dug in, right after it washes over the sandbar it gets crushed or makes it a few feet in the wash.

My number one is a super strike plastic darter, doesn't dive deep enough when the surfs big but for the most part it's my first plug out
Of the bag if there's moving water.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

bump, great thread

well now I need to hear your technique and method. I have no problem making them just catching quality fish with them.

Paul i agree with what chef said about loving the plug and the technique. I fish mine a little different but i produce on em when they are on nothing else. But for me i cant stand the SS darters, i cant feel them like others. (Nnot a SS platic fan at all by the way).
I have a different problem then you though,i can fish the hell outta them i just can' t / dont understand how to cut the lip consistently, as well as what the effects are with the line tie locations on the face or on top, im one of those guys where you can tell me the tops the best but i need the science behind it.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

ok Skippy I can help you out with cutting the angles with fixtures. Now remember my fixtures might be a tad over the top because I enjoy making them more than the plugs to be honest but you can apply these principles to wooden built fixtures for sure. Don't get the idea you have to use alum. for the fixtures. Please remember these are my opinions and may not be in line with other builders of these plugs. I am not going to give my opinion on wood types, weighting or not, line tie locations, sealing and weight gain opinions, angle and slope details. These are all builder preferences that each person selects to get to the end result and way too many variables to really try and discuss in this thread. I am only going to try and give you a specific way to try and achieve a consistent end result using my way of fixturing the blanks.
There are a few operations that in my mind are very critical to having your darters repeat if you go about machining them using fixtures like I describe below.
First is after you have turned them you need to thru drill them. The thru drilling has to be very accurate in the center of the blank for at least the first inch or two, depending the size of the darter, from both ends. The middle part is not as critical as long as they meet. The fixture in the tail end will position the plug from the rear with a pin and the thru hole from the front is where the line tie will go and you need the hole to be in the center of the plug so both have to be accurate.

Next is the belly holes. My fixtures hold the plug and locate the plug using the belly hole, the front one to be specific. Most all my fixtures for any plugs I make use the belly holes to locate the plug for all operations. That being said you want a nice fit, size, for the pin, be it steel or wood, that goes in the belly hole. I do hydro my darters after turning and thru hole. My darters are not weighted so I feel important and a pretty easy step. Some do not, some think unimportant, some have other reasons. In a talk with Mr. Musso he said I really should, so I do. I will try and include a few pics to help. Here is the fixture, sled that carries the blank. I use a table saw with a dado blade to cut the first angle. You can see the pin in the rear end that goes into the blank and the pin on the bottom closer to the cut that locates the blank. I really don't even have to clamp the blank to the fixture as it is locked into the sled but I do just in case.

here you can see how the sled slides along the table and the fence. Now remember this is a completed darter so you would not have the slope angle on the blank as it is in the picture but I had a large darter laying around so I stuck it on the sled to show you how it looks. I just sneak up on the final cut depth and then once I get it to where I want it I just take the cut all at once. I also wrap blue tape around the blank in the area to be cut. It will eliminate and chipping of the wood on the edges which does happen.

Now once at this point I go to another fixture to cut the top slope. It holds the blank in much the same manner but lays on the band saw table. I don't even clamp this in. I then cut the slope freehand about a 1/16 to and 1/8 inch away from final size. I just mark a line on blank and cut. As you can see there are lots of different holes that allow for many different size darters. Lots of adjustability.

here you can see on a different size darter how the roughed out size and the finished size look.. To get the final finished size I just lay a piece of sand paper on a flat surface and hand sand the slope angle. I find it much easier than using a belt sander as you can really screw up the slope quickly. Going by hand you can sneak up on final size. It really is easy to do as the wood comes off quick and the flat made by the band saw makes it easy to stay in the shape and you are only going to be taking off a pretty small amount of wood. Now if I was making these things by the boat load I would come up with a faster method but for me this is perfect and produces very accurate repetitive plugs.
I hope this gives you an idea as to how to make consistent cuts and some ideas as to how to fashion a fixture or 2 for yourself.

Geez that is some sweet jig.......Do you know a machinist? :rotf2:

my favorite lure (under correct conditions of course) is a black darter on a running tide at night. it appears his work best with loop right at front of top lip. wobble is so seductive. I have had great luck with yellow darters in moderate surf during daylight in fall as well (similar to a yellow bottle plug).

Bill

Here is another pic to show what the plug will look like after the first angle is cut with the table saw. It was hard to see looking at the finished one mounted int he fixture. It will also look like this too when it is mounted in fixture to cut the slope. Also a bunch of darters in different sizes the fixtures fits.

This was Amazing Paul! Thanks a ton, a lot of the thoughts and ideas i had about to do this were confirmed, not that i was thinking i was getting bad Intel, just wasn't making sense to some of the techniques i was told. This was Perfect, thanks again!

Nice work

Amazing talents.........................

I started building after oct for this year

nice looking plug

Aluminum jigs with Allen heads for sizing.....:smash: Your killing me. I wanna vise!!!!! Nice work Paul.

So what wood are we using and how are you weighting darters made with lighter woods? I have been using maple, but am only in the turning, drilling phase. (Did a run of spooks followed by pencils before I go darter crazy...)

Make 6 plugs and try different weights in different places ... I use black powder balls :)
Paint them white and swim them to see how they swim in the current.
If you like what you see get a few ready for the night bite :)
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

All these pictures and no schematics, aaarrrrrgggghhhhhh!

PM - The Rolls Royce of jigs & fixtures.

I'm sure you make your own pins but do you know of any source on the web that sells pins? I've tried in the past but searching "(insert diameter here) pins" but I'm guessing that is too vague.

Usually turn them (or use drill bits) and use finish nails for tail holes.

here's one of Chucky's, he gave me to paint.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/541892_10151333163745629_462720533_n.jpg

PM - The Rolls Royce of jigs & fixtures.

I'm sure you make your own pins but do you know of any source on the web that sells pins? I've tried in the past but searching "(insert diameter here) pins" but I'm guessing that is too vague.

Usually turn them (or use drill bits) and use finish nails for tail holes.

McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-dowel-pins/=l4ymoh)

yeah you can use dowel pins but are limited to specific sizes. You would probably be better off using the back end of a longer drill that way you can use a specific size drill you want and will fit your belly grommet and make your fixtures to fit your pins. You could use drill blanks too which would be a good choice. I just turn up the size I need out of stainless.:)

here's one I made last fall for a fund raiser... Tatoo Bob ended up buying it

That puts the lead in my pencil Chris!
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

yeah you can use dowel pins but are limited to specific sizes. You would probably be better off using the back end of a longer drill that way you can use a specific size drill you want and will fit your belly grommet and make your fixtures to fit your pins. You could use drill blanks too which would be a good choice. I just turn up the size I need out of stainless.:)

Didn't know drill blanks were so readily available. 5/32" for $2. Perfect.
Blanks around 8mm are bit tricky as they are pricier then a 8mm drill.

you may want to try a drill blank about .003 or maybe even .005 below .156, if they are possible to find but may not be as they are usually just drill sizes which has got me wondering why I told you to use drill blanks, as it will most likely be very tight if you use a 5/32 drill and that particular hole is not as important as the belly hole will be so a small amount of play is ok and may make things work smoother. I actually use hardened gage pins of the specific size I want. The hole is really only supporting the rear end of the plug and you will find you want some play there. The belly hole is the important hole and where you want a pretty tight fit to your pin, a few thousands under, but not too sloppy as this is your locator for the whole machining of the plug. Again the hole you drill in the wood will tend to be smaller than the drill you use so you want to allow for the shrinkage. Just some food for thought. That is why the rear end of a drill may be a good choice as they tend to be a thousands or 2 smaller than the bushiness end of the drill.

here are gage pins but they are not chea, but come in any size you want. MSC will carry individual pin sizes. an example is below.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Measuring-Inspecting/Dimensional-Measuring-Tools-Instruments/Inside-Diameter-Measurement-Gages/Plug-Pin-Gages-Go-No-Go-Gages-Accessories/_/N-77d6z?cm_mmc=Didit-_-SEM-_-ItmDtl-_-PypClk&002=2167139&004=2206399264&005=317698465&006=12529493344&007=Search&mkwid=sTuJR4tat&pcrid=12529493344&cid=ppc-google-Product+-+Measuring+%26+Inspecting

http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Measuring-Inspecting/Dimensional-Measuring-Tools-Instruments/Inside-Diameter-Measurement-Gages/Plug-Pin-Gages-Go-No-Go-Gages-Accessories/Class-X-Minus-Plug-Pin-Gages/_/N-77dd8?refinement=4288828718&searchandizedOk=Y

If thats the case I might have lucked out on the belly hole as 8.7mm wasn't available and I had to order 8.5mm but I figured after I hydro it will swell just enough that .2mm wouldn't be much? I almost didn't place the order as I didn't want it loose and the back of the drills was perfect. I had no clue the drill changed diameters?

For the tail hole I can always go back to the same nails I use for pins for my lead molds. If they don't work out and I'm not feeling cheap I'll reorder the tail pins as they were only $1.50.

The pins you linked was originally what I was looking for but $19 I kept using the back of my drills.