The Martha's Vineyard derby commitee has been discussing wether or not to have False Albacore in the Derby this year.

As many of you know, Albies are not the best eating fish in the ocean. If a person weigh's in a fish for the derby it is used for lobster bait for the local lobster guys, but after so many they just do not have a use for them and they get tossed off the docks in Edgartown harbor, where you can see a ton of the carcusses in the water. And so that some of you know whom might not, the fish that are weighed in ie. Bass, Blues, Bonito are filleted by volunteers and donated to the Island people for food.

The Derby is trying to consider ways to prevent this species from getting killed just to be weighed in for the derby. Some suggestion have been made such as, raising the size limit for weigh in, either by measuring to the fork of the tail, or overall lenght so that so many fish are not being weighed in. This is the only species in the derby which you can only win a weekly prize with. The bass, blues, and bonito come with a daily, mystery or weekly prize. This had been done to prevent so many albies from being weighed in in the past.

There have been some discussions on the MV derby web site and We will be responding there to our concerns about removing the ablies all together as that is pretty much the only species, Bill & I fish for, and if we get a good one then we will weigh it in as the derby comes second in our minds. We go there to fish for the albies because it is one of a few places you can actually target them from shore in NE. But that is just Bill and I and I am sure that there are alot of different ways other people like to fish the derby.

The real concern is how much will removing the albies from the derby, hurt the revenue to the Island and the Derby if this species is dropped. We need to think of some ways to be able to keep the albies in the derby and also ways for the fish to be used instead of just tossing them back in the water dead.

My 2 cents on the issue is not just that these fish are being thrown back dead into the water, because at least if they go back in the water they are still feeding something else, not just going to waste in a dumpster some where. But I also think that if the ablies are removed they will lose at least 1/2 the amount of people in the derby, because many guys just go for the speed demonds and sign up for the derby just incase they get a good one.

Some things I think that would be good are as follow's!!!

1. Measure fish to the fork in the tail for total length.

2. Place instructions on ways to handle each species of fish in the derby book or size limit sheet you get when you sign up for the derby, so that people are not just killing them from keeping them out of the water too long, (Which we see happen alot). Three things you should have on you at all times is a tape measure, pliers, and a camera. You should not be running back and forth to your vehicle to get these things while the fish is possibley not big enough to weigh in and kill that fish because you don't know what you are doing. ALso a few instructions about gear types to use and how to fight a fish as some guys just don't have a clue. This information coulb be very usefull to people who are not used to fishing for this type of species.

3. They should also place average weight to inch sizes in the derby rules so that if someone catches one, that is say 26 inches and will probably weigh around 71/2-8 lb and the leader is already listed as having a fish weighed in at 12lb, you have no chance of beating that fish, so you know to throw it back.

4. If it is a weekly prize, each competitor can only weigh in 1 fish per week? Which leaves it in the fisherman's discretion on wether to keep the fish or not.

5. I also feel that throwing the fish in the water right at Edgartown dock probably isn't the best Idea as it is a big tourist area also and some people will just never understand the theory of giving back to the resource. Maybe the committee could have some of the lobster guys or local guys take the carcusses off shore and dump them back in the water so that they are still feeding something out there.

These are just my thoughts on the issue, I am sure there will be alot of other points of view, but my reccomendation is that if you are concerned, and fish the derby and want to help them figure out ways to rectify these issue's is that you go to www.mvderby.com and post on there site ways that may help them out. The real reason that Bill & I have such a passion for fishing the island is it's beauty, different species to catch and renting a house full of buddy's that we love to fish with and just spend time doing what we love best FISHING!!!!

I remember when they first put bass back in. No daily/weekly prizes whatsoever. Top 3 shore/boat places got plaques only, and the winners weren't eligible for the Grand Prize. That'd be a good start. I also think you could only weigh in 3 during the run of the Derby, but I'm not sure. Having a Derby-long restriction would keep people from weighing in 20# bass, and it should keep people from weighing in 7# albies. Take them out of the Grand Slam picture, too.

The other problem I see is that albies and bones often feed together, and that a certain percentage of the folks who enter the Derby will always have a problem with "species identification" between the two tunoids. It's easy for experienced fishermen to tell the difference, but that isn't the case across the board. You'll always have albie by-catch when people target bonito, and they aren't the easiest fish to release. I was fishing with a bunch of guys once behind Pogue Light, and one of them caught a micro albie--about 4#s. He landed it within 5 minutes, never took it out of the water, and it went straight to the bottom when he released the tail.

they should also put regs on your tackle so albies are not killed from a very long fight you can only use a 10wt or 11wt fly rod or stronger,med action surf rod or stronger,single hooks on plugs or tin squids use to catch bones or ablies. single hooks on the back of all striper/blue plugs,tin squids. circle hooks must be used when bait fishing.

I can think of several things to do with albies when they are killed and weighed in.

Save them for the offshore anglers. Albie chunks are awesome for shark and mahi-mahi.

If bled, gutted, and iced promptly, albies are PRETTY DARN GOOD SASHIMI. One could do this shortly after weighing in the fish, as long as the fish haven't been dead too long.

It is a shame to kill something just to weigh it in. If I weren't gonna eat it, I'd rather release it to fight another day.

CR---rules that are impossible to enforce are worse than no rules at all ;)

Originally posted by Mike P
CR---rules that are impossible to enforce are worse than no rules at all ;)

just some ideas:doh:

I've never fished the derby but have a house promised to me for free this fall :happy: :humpty:

Heres my thoughts
the ideas to limit albie weigh-ins to 2 or 3 per angler for the whole derby and set a minimum size are great. Also it might be helpful to hand out a card with a picture of an Albie and a bonito with a list of diferent features so the novices (like myself:hihi: ) can learn how to tell which is which....And maybe have a penalty for those who weigh in an albiw that is too small.

You should only be allowed to weigh an albie if you caught it bare handed while swimming after it in water over your head!:D

"Reading the Water" is a love story

I've come close to that by the way :D. I caught 11 of them from shore this year and killed two of them for a RISAA tournament. I hate doing it, I feel like I commited murder or something. So I'm for minimum sizes, and limit the amount each angler can enter or don't have tournament at all. Or as previously posted support your local offshore angler and give him one for shark bait

there easy to tell apart a albie looks like a fat football and has no teeth. a bonito looks like a rocket and has teeth. the card with a bone and a albie makes sense

Originally posted by Eben
I've never fished the derby but have a house promised to me for free this fall :happy: :humpty:
.

I will carry your plug bag for ya:rolleyes: :D

2005 will be Derby button #17 (including when I was a kid)

there are already no daily prizes for albies...
Weekly and Grand only...

I say make the Albie minimium VERY HIGH...if the average caught last year was 28" then make it 30" minimum

I agree with you BP...Raise the length of the Albies...I can honestly say I dont fish for them because they are part of the derby.I would still fish for them anyway.They are an aewsome fish to catch...I weighed only one last derby and that was because it was a wee bit over 29"..All the others were under and released

Ya know, some of the best years I ever had for bass was when they weren't in the Derby at all :D

And best of all was having the beach to yourself, or just to your own crew ;)

I went there to fish and to enjoy the Island---the Derby was always a secondary consideration.

Originally posted by Mike P
I went there to fish and to enjoy the Island---the Derby was always a secondary consideration.

I highly enjoy the Island and that's where I would live if I somehow could. On the other hand - I truly enjoy fishing the Derby. The History, the competitiveness, and as some would say, the astronaut training, are not to be missed. I have also had the serious fortune to spend my MV Derby time, well, all of my MV time but especially the Derby, with GREAT PEOPLE.

But I still want to live there - someday :D

I agree...It's not really the fish you are catching or not,Its the people you are fishing with and just enjoying the island..

It is incredible the sense of camaraderie that we all have fishing the Vineyard. Whether it is at the house or on the beach with someone you know or a complete stranger. It the only place where lying is morally correct and brings a laugh everytime a fib is told.
And I agree with everyone that 30" should be the minimum length for a albie to be weighed in. Even make the measurement from the fork of the tail and not the pinched tail method would be fine. Increasing the competitiveness will increase the interest in the derby.


Reading the Water is a love story:D



:sled:

I think the reason many albies are weighed in is to have a shot at the grand slam. I was lucky enough to get one over 10 lbs this year and had a shot at a weekly. I must have caught at least 20, but only weighed in the single fish.

I love the competition as I'm sure many do. It would be difficult for me to throw away a fish that I knew would increase my grand slam weight even if it would not win the weekly prize. Raising the minumim length seems like the right thing to do. I would bet that 50% of the albies I caught were under 28" and another 40% were under 29". I don't know the statistics but I'll bet a mere inch raise in the lmit to 29" would cut out more than half of the 600 fish that were weighed in this year. I would much rather see the minimum length increased than to see the fish left out of the derby.

I'd love to see the histogram on the 600 fish. I'm sure the weights can be easily transformed accurately into length.

Some feel we are killing fish for no reason. My argument to that is that it is not for "no reason"...there are PLENTY of good causes that come out of the death of the albies during the derby. The soc-eco benefits alone to the island make it more then worth it...not to mention the serious college scholarships that result for some lucky island kids who plan on studying a marine science. It allows fisherman to have a good time with a little competition thrown in. Many come to fish them because in large part it levels the playing field and it has been mentioned already that to have a shot at bass you have got to be in the know and as you know the locals have this pretty much sewn up...between the comm bass guys fishing out of Menemsha and the private access to many hotspots, it is near impossible for the visitor to have a realistic shot...don't think that is so...the weigh in's bear this out. Albies and bones allow others to really particapate (and in many cases win) in the derby. I love the fact that a 10-12# fish caught off the dock in the middle of town can take the grand prize...that is just great IMO and I would hate to see that elminated.

When you have such serious fishermen (like the entire B&J gang) that in large part come for an extended period of time to target these species I think there are some serious "reasons". The cash layout for a stay like that (not to mention fishing expenses) goes in large part to support the island economy outside of fishing circles.

Two other important FACTS...marine biologists have told the derby that the 4 or 5 weeks of the event does no measurable harm to the biomass and that the fish is under literally no pressure elsewhere. The population of the species is fine. These are facts.

IMO I would like to see the rules uniform for all species. All the awards (daily, weekly, mystery ect). Yes, there should be reasonable limits but I would like to see anyone who fishes for them get a reasonable shot of weighing in an albie and getting a shot of at least a mystery prize.

The sole reason on why they are considering removal is based on it is not eaten in the US. I have eaten them and they kinda suck but just because you don't eat them does not mean they are worthless (look at the Bunker!). There is someone who has said that they are willing to take them all as well as the carcasses of the other edible fish to be used in for special fertilizer. Personally I think that is as good a use as eating the meat and discarding the remains.

Frankly, I think everyone is getting concerned about nothing. IMO it is not a problem and just by finding a good use for them should make this non-problem go away.

One thing that really does irk me is that I see the ultra light and fly rod crowd preaching that we need to remove them form the derby because we are killing fish yet they continue to fish for them day in and day out catching and releasing them. They are killing more albies then they can imagine yet don't know it. I have see albies fight to the near death and then after being measured and gawked at they revive it like a brook trout and think it lives. Most of these fish will die. Just about any exhausted and bleeding albie will die. Just because it slips off into the darkness of the ocean does not mean it will live.

I think there will be more education on catch and release in the future and that should help. And not just about ablies….some need to be educated on icing down fish to be donated. But again, this species is not seeing any fishing pressure and this 5-week event does no harm yet it helps many. I would like to see the fish live on in the derby.

If we had weakfish (and the netters didn't wipe them) I imagine they would still be in the derby. Or if the Spanish Mac was more abundant that would be a good (and tasty) substitute. But the albi has put *many* smiles on fishermen’s faces each sept/oct here and it would be foolish to remove it in the name of “conservation” just because you can't eat it.

BTW, some Asians have said that we Americans don't know what we are talking about and the albi is a great fish to eat...far better then the Bonito, we just don't prepare it right.:rolleyes:

Long live the albi....Hey I just got four sweet pairs of rod/reels just to target these fish!(st. croix and shimano's) don't take them out now!!;)

I am not really an albi fisherman…I have to say I catch them each season but last season was so hot that I have to say I had a ball some days. Next year might not be the same. The year prior was not that hot if you remember and very few shore albies were caught.

While I am sure the derby will live in regardless of what happens it is good that the derby gets all your inputs. no matter what side you are on. If you feel strongly about it post it on their site...


On a sad note, I heard the guy who won the bass (from boat) catagory died recently. He was in his late 80's...He caught it off a MV charter boat.

On a happy note I hear the derby will be broadcast on TV (NESN) on 1/9 @ 7:30pm and on 1/11 and 1/14 @ 6:00pm