i believe it was 20 games in a row in which they scored first that was stopped 2day =[

new streak time!!!:D

You guys will hang onto anything:rolleyes:

yeah- like super bowl championships in the last two DECADES!! the burger frauds will be exposed soon enough:D hey VF- was that you on eei today?

Originally posted by Vectorfisher
You guys will hang onto anything:rolleyes:


Yeah......including the Superbowl Trophy :D


Not quite ready to give that thing up yet.

YEs TDF we have a few more trophies;)
Afterhours no I would not call WEEI way too biased in my opinion, anybody who goes on the air and makes a statement that Brady is better than Manning loses all credibility with me I dont care who has a Lombardi trophy. Manning is better than Ben R by light years and if you ask me Ben can stand toe to toe with Brady all day long as a rookie and will only improve:D

Originally posted by Vectorfisher
You guys will hang onto anything:rolleyes:

Yeah it was a stupid steak...thanks for bringin that to everyones attention:rolleyes:

You guys sure can talk some smack, how about the Pittsburgh losses to aid in the Pats getting home field:eek: They showed yesterday what type of team they are by beating a BILLS team THAT NEEDED A WIN to get in the playoffs with 2,3 string players, while your team was held up until the half 7-7 with the crappiest team in the NFL if your team comes out slow in 2 weeks like they have quite a few times this year YOU ARE ALL DONE mark my words!! You can talk all you want about your team and it's most recent accomplishments but when they lose just remember which team has had more success in it's overall history;) Not just the Johnny come lately's :laughs:

Goose that streak sure did help them against Pittsburgh and Miami:rolleyes: Gimme a break, like I said you guys will hang onto anything;)

johnny come latlely... how about johnny won the superbowl lately.

Tell me when the last time the Pats went 15-1 or for that matter only lost 1 game in the regular season, I think that could be some kind of record NO:confused:

never and no record for you!

Didn't I just agree that the steak was stupid? Hello!!!!

Like Big Fish said, patroits don't turn the ball over and they are tuff to beat....and don't forget Dillon didn't play when they met, he is a Huge part of the pats offense. Yes I beleive The Bills shoulda won, just like the pats could have won with Dillon. Hopefully the two teams will meet so we can find out.

"More success in its over all history"???? so freakin what! Will any of those players be playin this year?? HELLO unlike the pats where many of the same key player are there. Sayin crap like " you are all done" your the one talkin crap here.

Goose a little news flash if the 1st string Pittsburgh team plays yesterday the Bills get literally destroyed and thats a fact!

the only team to beat pittsburgh this year was the ravens. the pats crushed the ravens, ur 2nd string beat the bills first string yup so what?? buffalo is mediocre at best, they lost to the patriots twice. the steelers are not gonna have a cakewalk through the divisional round, i wouldn't be thinking ahead to either the pats/colts i'd worry about the chargers come the divisional round, that will be a tough team to beat. 1200+ yrd back and a qb that has had the best year of his career and a very capable defence. dont be surprised if the steelers have a very tough day against em, perhaps even lose. we may not get pats/steelers in afc championship, you could end up with colts/chargers rematch. if ty law is still hampered by that foot and seymour is also banged up the pats stand a very good chance at getting picked apart by the colts. earthwind moreland and randall gay just wont cut it against harrison/wayne/prohle unfortunately
i think the pats match up worse with the colts then any other team and barring a denver miracle thats who we see. if the pats get past the colts i think whomever they play on championship weekend is in trouble

When was the last time the Steelers won the Superbowl???

Oh, yeah and we won 14 games this season, most of them while missing one of the premier corners in the league. We have had a ruffed up secondary for most of the season. I hope it is Pitt and NE in the Afc Showdown, then we will see if they can stop Corey. He tosses linebackers around like they are ragdolls.

By the way if Peyton is so great why does'nt he have a ring????

The NFL is all about one thing, winning the SUPER BOWL. What you do during the season means jack schitt if you don't win the big game.

Surfcasting4life you keep bringing up the one game the Steelers lost against the Ravens w/o Ben R and somehow making a connection between the Pats beating :smash: The Steelers beat them game before Buffalo 20-7 also beat the Dolphins and the Bengals 2x and the Jets also we crushed the Pats and Eagles so tell me how that loss to the Ravens means anything? I never said the Steelers would have a cake walk in any way shape or form READ ALL OF MY POSTS any team can be beat on any given day, but that doesn't seem to be the attitude with the Pats fans, they seem more like yankee fans

Specialist Peyton doesnt have a ring because the game is a team effort. Put Peyton on the Pats replacing Brady and I bet they go 16-0 this past season and go to the superbowl beating Pittsburgh in the playoffs:D The 2 games the Pats lost were due to Brady's interceptions and Dillon fumbles as well as the Defense giving up a bit Also don't flatter yourself with injury's the Steelers have had defensive pro bowlers out quite a bit of the 15-1 season

Originally posted by Vectorfisher
Specialist Peyton doesnt have a ring because the game is a team effort. Put Peyton on the Pats replacing Brady and I bet they go 16-0 this past season and go to the superbowl beating Pittsburgh in the playoffs:D The 2 games the Pats lost were due to Brady's interceptions and Dillon fumbles as well as the Defense giving up a bit Also don't flatter yourself with injury's the Steelers have had defensive pro bowlers out quite a bit of the 15-1 season

I agree!!!
Peyton has to carry the whole team on his back, just like Marino had to in Miami,
Put Brady on the colts, and they are NOT that good!!!

If you put Ben R on the Colts....does that make him not as good a quarterback....like your Brady scenario?:confused: I think Brady and Ben R are great quarterbacks regardless....but I agree it takes a team to win a Superbowl!;)

......do we sound like yankee fans ?:eek:

I will only say Ben R has had a great rookie season, to say he is a great quarterback is a stretch being that he has only played in 13 games. When I think of Brady as a quarterback great does not come to mind, he is a solid quarterback don't get me wrong but I think guys like Manning, Marino, Elway reserve the right to be called great!

I also will agree on the team aspect of winning.




Corey did not play in Pitt, had he played it might have been a different game. If I remember correctly Randall Gay got burned for the 1st touchdown, after replacing Law. If Law had been in the secondary, do you honestly think that would have been a TD? I admit that the Pats had a lousy game, and had like 3 fumbles, and 2 interceptions. The Steelers were on the ball, and took advantage of the turnovers.

In the Miami game, the turning point was the Rodney Harrison penalty in the end zone. IMO when that happened it was a momentum change, Miami was able to score and make it a 28-23 ball game. Brady then fumbled trying to make a play, as he was being sacked. If he had connected like the week before everyone would have been calling him a god, instead they hung him out to dry for 1 bad play. Then Troy Brown, a wide reciever playing as a corner got burned in the end zone for a td. Now had the Pats secondary been healthy we would not have had a wideout playing corner.

I am now going to my imitation of Bill Belicheck:

The past is the past, we had a couple of bad games on the way to our 2nd 14-2 season. (Only done by 3 other teams by the way), We are gonna put that in the past, and focus on our upcoming game. We have some tough competition ahead of us.

Originally posted by Raider Ronnie
Peyton has to carry the whole team on his back, just like Marino had to in Miami,


What's Edgerrin James, chopped liver? Marino never had an RB as good as James.

Ben hasn't done S--t yet, when he wins two super bowl you can talk about Ben, The steelers have had a good year, The Pats had a good year. you don't really believe if Law hadn't gone down and Dillion was out the steelers win, do you?.

Originally posted by Mike P
What's Edgerrin James, chopped liver? Marino never had an RB as good as James.

And Marino never had 3 recievers who all caught for 1000+ yards.

Originally posted by Mike P
What's Edgerrin James, chopped liver? Marino never had an RB as good as James.

I think James is MUCH overated,
And yes , I think Marino is BY FAR the best of all time!!!
The numbers are not even close!!!
It's a shame he never won a superbowl!!!
Elway would never have won one without Terell Davis!!!
It;s a shame a Terell Davis never came allong for Marino!!!

2 time Superbowl winner, 2 Superbowl MVP awards....consistently high QB rating which indicates he is more than capable of getting the job done and one of the best winning percentages among quarterbacks ever and you do not consider him GREAT?:smash: :smash: :smash: What do you want the guy to do?:confused: Stand on his head and shoot gold bullion out of his butt?:laughs:

Montana was the best ever...he has the rings and the stats! The best of both worlds and you can take that to the bank!:happy:

Originally posted by BigFish
Montana was the best ever...he has the rings and the stats! The best of both worlds and you can take that to the bank!:happy:

If Montana was so great,
How is that Steve Young stepped in and the team never missed a beat?
It was the team and NOT Montana!!!
The 9ers always had a great denense when they won their superbowls also.
Marino NEVER had a running game and never had an even good defense!!!
I'l take Marino anyday!!!

Marino didn't have Jerry Rice either!!!

Pretty naive view from someone I thought had some football knowledge Ron.....you and one other guy in here can't seem to give credit where credit is due!:smash: Because Montana happened to be surrounded by a great team somehow makes him more fortunate than talented?:smash: :smash: Favre has not had great teams? Bradshaw? Tarkenton? The list is endless....Marino had some pretty great teams Ron and you know what....he could not rally his troops and take them to the promised land like a truely gifted, talented and great quarterback can!:D Bledsoe has numbers coming out of his butt, but he can't get it done and neither could Marino!:smash:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigFish
[B]...Marino had some pretty great teams Ron and you know what....

Great teams?
Name one of them!!!
He had one of the greatest centers and a few other good linemen!!! a GREAT Punter (Reggie Roby) also!!!
As for Favre, he had about 4 great years in a row !!!
And if the Pats had a clue how to NOT kick off to Desmond Howard, he would not have won a superbowl.
It didn't hurt that he had Reggie White and Sean jones and a few othere on the defense!!!

Stats aside, how could you objectively decide who is the best quarterback? Personally Brady could be the worst QB in the league for all I care, as long as THE TEAM keeps winning SuperBowls. :D

My mind is a little blurry cause it was so long ago, but didn't Marino and one of his recievers share the record for the most touchdown connections all-time between a QB and a reciever?:confused: I will do my homework Ron and force feed you the info....but I am sure you will have some lame reason as to why Marino could not win a Superbowl anyway.....I can give you the best reason why he did not win one.........Joe "Cool" Montana!:D

Bigfish in your earlier post you bring up QB rating, well I already told you I did not think Ben R was great he has not been time tested however he did rate a 98.1 in his Rookie season! Does that make him great? And do you know what Brady's rating is this year?? And did you know this is his highest QB rating since he has started???An Islander and everyone else who thinks Corey Dillon makes a huge difference in that game, did you really watch that game?? The Steelers manhandled the Patriots on both sides of the ball, if you have it on tape look again, the Pats don't win that day with or without him it wasn't there day;)

Food for thought Ron....Marino had a tandem consisting of two of the best recievers in NFL history in Mark Clayton and Mark Duper for most of his career......guess thats why Marinos passing numbers are so "padded"! Who was carrying who on whos back?:laughs: 1984 season the Dolphins started the season 11-0....went on to the Superbowl against the 49'ers and I remember watching that one well....the great Marino was anemic! He could not start a fire with a flamethrower that day......I remember he looked so nervous and flustered in that one. He had a team that season every bit as good as SF and he lost because he could not beat the best. (Period) :smash:

For the record....I am not knocking Marino as a quarterback, simply trying to make my point to Ron that Marino failed to get it done.;)

There are great quarterbacks....like Marino, who have all the passing records and numbers and such.....but no ring.

Then there is the best quarterback....Montana, who has some of the best passing stats of any quarterback ever, holds just as many records as Marino and his career numbers are almost as good......difference is he has 4 rings on his finger....he earned them......he was the coolest ever under pressure and handled a two minute offense better than any other quarterback ever has.....and that was the one thing Marino did not possess.......coolness under pressure!:happy:

VF...you can't be a great quarterback after only 12 games and no Superbowl appearances......I was simply using the QB rating to make my point.:D Anyone who tells me that Brady is not a great Quarterback will be considered a fool in my book!:read: Bledsoe, with all the "numbers" talent in the world with almost the same team and coaching could not get it done! Brady did....twice! And he ain't done yet my friends not by a longshot! He is the only other QB I have ever seen as cool in the pocket as Montana.....how many other "decent" quarterbacks have 2 Superbowl rings and MVP awards? How many great quarterbacks have 2 Superbowl rings and 2 MVP awards? Riddle me that Batman!:smash:

I bow to you master of the pigskin.....:read:

Ahh BF let's face it Brady is good not great;)

two super bowl wins, two super bowl mvp's, 6-0 record in post season. brady's record speaks for itself. ( not to mention 31-4 and counting in past two seasons ).

I think you guys are confusing Talent with Greatness. A Great Quarterback is presented w/ an oppportunity in the face of great adversity and rises to the occasion. A talented Quarterback just keeps putting up numbers.

For this reason Peyton Manning should not be considered as a Great QB. He has been presented with great opportunities but has done nothing w/ them. Until he does he is just a VERY VERY talented QB.

Same w/ Marino, The guy was the most talented QB to ever play the game but Greatest? You need to rise up and Take charge of the opportunities presented to you....he didn't

Say what you want about Brady, but he was given an opportunity 3 seasons ago and grabbed it and took his team to a championship....and he did it in the final seconds of the superbowl.....twice as a matter of fact.

Montana has done that too. he was presented w/ an opportunity and he shined.

It doen't matter what your season long stats are, it matters what you do at the moment of truth that dictates your greatness. Until Peyton wins the big one and rises to the occasion he can't be considered one of the greatest. He DID orchestrate the greatest season by a QB though.


There that should ad some fuel to the fire

TDF....you absolutely encapsulated the very essence of what greatness means....though the few here who are bitter because the Patriots sit upon the top of the football world will never give in to simple reasoning.;) Your definition is perfect, logical, and reasonable. I am done trying to teach the blind to see....for they can't!:smash: Maybe one more Superbowl win and they will be unable to deny what is fact!:D

well said TFD!!:D

Originally posted by Raider Ronnie
I think James is MUCH overated,


OK, so that means he's among the AFC leaders in rushing because he has a great O-line opening the holes for him, right?

Which might also explain why Peyton doesn't get sacked a lot and has time to set up and throw, right?

So--is Peyton carrying the whole team on his back
:rolleyes:

Lets pig-pile on Raider Ron!:laughs:

Ok so if then Ben R takes the Steelers to the bowl and wins he is GREATER than Brady, Montana and all the others because he didnt lose a single game and went into the superbowl and won???? WHy not say he is the greatest if he accomplishes this because is there anyone that has done this?

VF- how can you compare ben to montana, brady, and all the others:rolleyes: you got the good stuff?:smokin:

Ben might....and I say "might" just be a flash in the pan...lets see him play like Brady has his first 3 years, put up the same numbers Brady has and win 2 Superbowl rings and 2 Superbowl MVP awards like Brady has and then we can talk about how "great" Ben is!:smash: Can't you see how uneven the scales are VF?:confused: Brady has been here and Ben just got here....that is all the difference we need to talk about right now!;)

ther's no doubt that ben is having an excellent rookie year. he's showing a lot of POTENTIONAL not greatness. like BF said - let's talk after 3 years.

My comments were based on TDF's post about talent and greatness

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Dad Fisherman
[B]I think you guys are confusing Talent with Greatness. A Great Quarterback is presented w/ an oppportunity in the face of great adversity and rises to the occasion. A talented Quarterback just keeps putting up numbers.

For this reason Peyton Manning should not be considered as a Great QB. He has been presented with great opportunities but has done nothing w/ them. Until he does he is just a VERY VERY talented QB.

Same w/ Marino, The guy was the most talented QB to ever play the game but Greatest? You need to rise up and Take charge of the opportunities presented to you....he didn't

Say what you want about Brady, but he was given an opportunity 3 seasons ago and grabbed it and took his team to a championship....and he did it in the final seconds of the superbowl.....twice as a matter of fact.

Montana has done that too. he was presented w/ an opportunity and he shined.

It doen't matter what your season long stats are, it matters what you do at the moment of truth that dictates your greatness. Until Peyton wins the big one and rises to the occasion he can't be considered one of the greatest. He DID orchestrate the greatest season by a QB though.


Well put!!!
But,
Being surrounded with talent allows you to "Rise to the occasion)

Oh please.....just another excuse monger!:rolleyes: I don't know any quarterbacks Ron that have won a single game all by themselves! :laughs: Give up the props already.:laughs: Any quarterback has won because he has a good supporting cast to one degree or the other.;)

Originally posted by Vectorfisher
Ok so if then Ben R takes the Steelers to the bowl and wins he is GREATER than Brady, Montana and all the others because he didnt lose a single game and went into the superbowl and won???? WHy not say he is the greatest if he accomplishes this because is there anyone that has done this?

I don't think it makes him the GREATEST....but its a hell of a start. He pulls off a few of these during his career and you can start throwing around his name w/ montana.

Its definitely the greatest Rookie performance IF he pulls it off (Lets not put the cart before the horse). And he also needs to be one of the reasons they win the superbowl......handing off to the "Bus" doesn't qualify you as a great QB. :D 15 games does not constitute a career either. he needs a little longevity.

You have to remember he didn't just lead his team to the superbowl...he was the MVP of both of them. Last year the Pats leading rusher had only 600+ yards...yet they won 14 in a row enroute to winning the superbowl, a lot of which was on Brady's arm.

I don't think Brady is one of the greatest ever....yet....but he is definitely well on his way. Once he wins another....Superbowl....that will pretty much do it :D


Basically........Big Ben can never be considered greater than Brady until he has MORE than 2 rings and 2 MVP's.....thats just basic logic right there

<<Basically........Big Ben can never be considered greater than Brady until he has MORE than 2 rings and 2 MVP's.....thats just basic logic right there>>

TDF I totally disagree!! That is crap just because Brady was fortunate enough to fall into the right team/coaching staff and get by in 2 superbowls wins that another Quarterbacl can ever be considered better, BULLSHEEET so you are saying Marino wasn't better than Brady????? You need your head examined for that analogy:smash:

As far as I'm concerned he is........Marino was one of the Most Talented to play the game but the Greatest??? Its all up to interpretation. Which would you...as a fan... rather have on your team, A Record Breaker or a Superbowl Winner? I know which one I want.

And Brady didn't actually "Get By" in 2 superbowls. he ran the 2 minute drill to WIN both superbowls. A little different. I also said I don't consider Brady great....yet. The only reason I made that statement was because you seem to already have Big Ben enshrined in Canton....

Oh and I used to have my head examined on a weekly basis.....but the bartenders insisted that I tip them better if i was going to continue my therapy. :D


Ahhhh Playoff Time

Montana shattered records and won the ring 4 times.....he is a lock in my mind for the greatest ever!:D

TDF you must be misreading all of my posts because I have said more than once I do not think he is a great Quarterback he still has much to prove, however you cannot takeaway the fact he is setting records and has had a phenomenal season to date.

Big Ben had a phenominal season without a doubt.....and outside of beating the Patriots, I wish him well and can't wait to see what his future holds.;) You got a diamond in the rough VF....just a little more seasoning and he may just be a full blown "GEM"!:D

And hey...what if Ben caps his season with a ring? I hope the Pats win of course but if he did do that......he will be on his way to greatness.;)

Montana's got the four rings, but Unitas called his own plays. That's gotta count for something. Tonite, I'm saying Johny U is the greatest ever...next time I think about it, I'll pick Montana.:D

But Johnny "U" doesn't have any Superbowl rings!:tm:

Don't forget, before the Super Bowl, there was something called the "NFL Championship" and Johnny U won that more than once, too---and it wasn't just by handing off to Alan Ameche or Tom Matte ;)

Of course, back then, if you wanted a ring, you had to pay for it yourself.

I hope you saw the "smilie" with his thumb in his ear......just being funny MikeP. Hey Mike...gonna post some eye candy for you soon!:D

Look at the post times big guy---even I can't type that fast. ;) Just mentioned it since 28" brought him up.

hey bf diamond in the rough? he was a top 10 pick i dont think that qualifies as "rough" just yet :P im thinkin 6th round...272nd pick, now thats a diamond in the rough. a nice shiny 2 superbowl diamond :)

If the NFL season were to end right now, Brady would have 2 Rings and 2 Superbowl MVP's, Ben R would be a footnote.

why you guys so concerned about jewlery guys wear?:hee: 05' is what counts

Surfcastinglife....I was paying a compliment in that post. Making reference to the fact that this is just his first season and he has had a great one....not comparing draft selection against Brady.;) You are right though.....isn't it amazing where Brady was selected!:smash:

ah ic ;) my mistake then and yea great job scouting by the league guys on brady :D. troy brown was an 8th round selection way back when and hes had a great carreer. i guess no matter how much scouting u cant predict what will happen to a player once he gets his hands on that money and is faced with the pressures of having to earn it

Great battle going on here with many good points but you guys are missing one crucial one. The best palyer on the Patriots is not the QB or the running back or even a player at all. It is the COACH!! No one prepares his team better for a game better than Belicheck. He knows every little detail about his opponent and takes advantage of every tiny weakness. The Pats coaching staff is "greater" than any other and has been for two seasons now. Sure, the players hafta perform but the coach gives the team a definate edge. I hope the Pats play Pitt so I can laugh at Cowher's facial contractions and scowls as he is out-coached (again)

:D

spinn

Spinn don't pat yourself to hard on the back, you are only partially right. While Bill B might be a good coach I think the entire staff has to be credited for the teams play. I hear all of this talk about Bill B being the best coach, well if you look back to his days as Clevelands coach what do you say about that, Bill Cowher his staff and the Steelers owned the Browns, so I don't think you can say it is one coach making the team as succesful as it has been.

Originally posted by Vectorfisher
While Bill B might be a good coach I think the entire staff has to be credited for the teams play.


Of course the staff is credited....and who hired the Staff?



Originally posted by Vectorfisher
I hear all of this talk about Bill B being the best coach, well if you look back to his days as Clevelands coach what do you say about that, Bill Cowher his staff and the Steelers owned the Browns, so I don't think you can say it is one coach making the team as succesful as it has been.

That was 10 years ago......Oh I forgot the past is fine, the Steelers won 4 Superbowls, of course that was when I was still getting a nickle a day for my Milk Money.

Bill B is 2-1 against the Steelers w/ his Current Team including beating them in the AFC Championship game AT Pittsburgh.

If its not the Quarterback and its not the Coach then who/what are the reason that a team goes to that next level?

I already told you it is the whole coaching staff and the whole team, if they dont play as a team they dont win. Does anyone know what the Patriots payroll is ?? That would anwer alot of questions, I have heard they will be 80 mill over the cap.