Was at a friends house today and of course the talk turned to fishing.He owns a 704 as well myself and many others here.We started to discuss the manual bail conversion.

I did a search here and didn't find much other than a referance to doing it on a 6500ss.

My question is:Is converting a 704 easy to do or would a "pro" be needed?

PS.I plan on drilling drain holes in the rotor cup.Any recommendations on bit size or does it really matter?Where should the holes be...near the center or out towards the edge?

Can't you just get the conversion kit :confused:

I remember an old thread on the drilling operation with photos, perhaps someone still has them...

-spence

Maybe we can get BM, to come out of hiding and give us a walk thru....
Dave's Von Penn :hihi:

Originally posted by spence
Can't you just get the conversion kit :confused:
-spence

I know there's a kit.I guess should've been more precise in my questioning.Is the kit easy to install?

Originally posted by Karl F
Maybe we can get BM, to come out of hiding and give us a walk thru....
Dave's Von Penn :hihi:

Two holes would suffice:) Just need to know the recommended bit size and where to drill for best drainage.

If you can take your reel apart to clean it the conversion should be a nobrainer...I would imagine any decent shop would do it for free or next to free.

-spence

Takin the reel down ain't a problem.Done that enough times.
Never seen a conversion kit.Didn't know what it entails.

If it took you 2 minutes to install the conversion kit, that would be too long. Very simple to do.

Thanks Surf.

The conversion kit comes with instructions and is very simple to do. They used to cost $7, now I think they're up to $18...it's silly.Try Bucko's in Fall River ,they would probably have the kit . If you drill the drain holes remember the 704 is not sealed like the Van Stahl. It needs to be taken apart and cleaned and greased if it gets dunked in the salt water.

I havent seen anyone do this but you could order the roller bracket for a VS 200 and mount it on yoru penn's rotor cup.. You would have to grind off the existing bailspring housing, but it would be well worth it.

Great site for Penn parts, very good customer service also

Manual bail conversion kit

http://www.scottsbt.com/acb_sbt/showdetl.cfm?&DID=8&Product_ID=27032&CATID=52


I thought 'thefishingfreak' did a step by step on drilling holes/vanstallizing a 704 but did a search and came up empty. Maybe he'll chime in here.....

The Surfcaster has the manual conversion for the 704 for $14. The 706 has 3 holes (equally spaced apart that would form a triangle if connected) on the outer edge of the bottom of the rotor cup, easy enough to drill on your own and basically all you need for water to drain.

Use a 1/4" bit. The bottom of the 704 cup is divided into sections. Just drill in the center of each section. If you only want two drain holes, pick opposing sections---just don't try to drill thru the lead counterweight ;)

Thanks guys.It all sounds simple enough.I'll be able to do the holes at lunch.Head to Buckos after work.

Hope this works...

Iceman, I saw that reel recently, and spoke with the guy who's going to be selling those as a complete conversion.

Just a question. I don't use spinning gear anymore but would like to know why you would drill holes all over the reel like in the first photo? Weight?
Thanks P.M.

I just drill the base of the cup to make it easier to flush out sand. It also gives water a place to drain after the reel gets dunked---water in the cup creates a "pumping" suction when you first turn the handle.

After last year I have an even more appreciation of just how tuff that reel is. I also drilled it out removed the bail packed with lube. I used it as my go to reel when wetsuiting. Some guys here know how much I fish and I literial used rod as a walking stick out there, that means the reel was under water consideral amount of time every night I fished. Yes the VS is better suited for that type of fishin but my buget I could flex that far last year. Although it wasn't a big fish year in the surf, on the weekends I did get a bunch of large off the boat useing the same reel. I use wd40 and repack about every third trip. I will get the VS250 but that reel will always be in the truck and part of my go to gear. For the $$ you just ain't gonna find a more reliable workhoarse.

Interesting, thanks guys. P.M.

Do you get a problem with corrosion where the anodizing has been drilled thru and the raw aluminum has been exposed. If these reels are used by a lot of fisherman maybe a good aftermarket item would be a spool that has been drilled and anodized or a good quality plastic, delrin or glass- filled delrin, very strong, or even better a titanium spool. I am a machinist in the oceanagraphic industry and am always looking for fishing products to make. Interested in opinions. If someone has a spool for these reels hanging around and wants to send it to me so I can speck it out and see if feasible I am up for it. PM me. Maybe there is no demand for this or maybe the spools are so cheap that you can just buy new ones when they corrode. Always said I wanted to make a complete titanium reel. Would be expensive but some fisherman would remortgage their home for anything associated with fishing. Not looking to make a lot of money here maybe trade for some fishing related stuff, like I need more fishing stuff. P.M.

nah, they dont rust

Krispy -

Yup, I know the guy's father. The guy does nice work for being a "flyguy" by trade.....

Originally posted by Professor Moriarty
Do you get a problem with corrosion where the anodizing has been drilled thru and the raw aluminum has been exposed.

That I can answer as I've quite a bit experience in painting and various chemical coatings.

Salt will eventually degrade it over time.The simple solution I'll be using is to smooth the edges and ID of the the drilled holes with 320-400grit sandpaper.Then mask tape the holes in/out for overspray.A quick spray of Rustoleum Clean Metal Primer from both sides.Do the same with Rustoleum FLAT black.Then remove the tape and spray a final coat of laqeur from both sides.The laqeur I'll be using is a two part industrial grade.Basically raw laqeur you add your own catalyst to.Solid finish.

I found a few other sites useful for pics and discussions, but I am not sure of linking rules so I won't post them. If you want, PM me.

However, what everyone recommends sounds fine. The manual kit is easy; I don;t own a 704 yet, but did one for a friend and it took seconds.

For drilling rotor cups, I would recommend that you make sure your bit is a metal drill bit, and that the more drain holes, the better. I added 3 more holes to my 706 cup, and cut slots on the sides. Slots are hard to do- I did them by hand and had my machinist friend clean em up. Basically, you mark about 6 dots near the top of the cup, then measure about 1/2" to the side, then down and mark your next spot to drill. Repeat for the rest so you have 2 rows of offset holes. The next step is to use a dremel cutting wheel to connect the holes a la Van Staal.

What is easier is to just use the 1/4" bit and drill a few holes in the inset ring on the rotor cup (where the line cap saticker is on Z series), then enlargen them with a larger bit (maybe 1/2"). Make sure you paint and/or clear coat the newly exposed metal.

To keep your housing water-resistant, just open, disconnenct handle and remove. Unscrew the top gear off. Cram in blue marine grease from a marine supply store. Add to the cone where the handle fits. Replace handle, screw back the gear. Close case, and turn the handle a few times. Ope her u=p and add more grease. Close up case, replaces housing screws. Wipe clean. Fish, dunk, and catch.

Not my original ideas by any means. I will post pics later.

Have fun!

Sam

Iceman,

Is that a 704 or a 706? It looks like a 706 to me.


Steve

Looks like a 706, black bail arm appears to be part of the rotor cup.

Prof. Moriarity: Given that the rotor cups cost $45 for a 706 and a little less for a 704, and about $35 for a710 cup, after drilling, painting, etc., I assume you'd want to charge about $60? Is it worth it?

Probably more feasible if you provided the service rather than the product.

Sam

I would help out any members for hell of it. Not looking to make any profit. I am a big fan of trading. Maybe some of the great plug builders could throw me a plug or two for doing it for them. Would like to see pictures of the finished spools. Building a spool would be time consuming and I would have to charge something for that, esp. titanium, but modifying one should not be too hard. I have enough projects of my own and winter is only so long, once fishing starts I don't even want to be in the" Hell Hole", aka machine shop, but would do it if anybody asked just might take a little longer. Always interested in any projects anyone has. I have the access and great way to meet other fisherman and maybe make one for myself. Fisherman are great tinker's and always trying to improve on a theme. Just offering my help. Paul M.

Professor:

That's really awesome. I hope you get some nice plugs, etc. Personally, I think there would be people willing to send you their rotor cups and spools AND pay you because they can;t do it themselves for whatever reason. I would have, and maybe I will have some business for you soon :).

I'll post pics tonight of mine, and some from other people I have met on other sites (I bet some people will recognize these) if that's okay with the administrators.

Sam

Any time just send me a PM and I'll see what I can do. I will even help out a Yankee fan, I noticed you are from NYC. Looking forward to the photo's. Paul

Thanks for the offer. I knew it would be a risky undertaking joining this site before The Curse was broken.

Here's pic of my 710:

Bad picture, can't see the slots in my 706 too well.

AKA "Hank" from Noreast... this is a 704.

A Penn 700 next to a VS. I forg to who posted this, but I found it on SOL.

I am not sure if you can easily drill through the bottom of the roto cup since it's stainless, but a good machinist can...

These last 3 were from the same dude on SOL. Penn 700..

From "Addict" on SOL & Noreast...

From NoEQL... BTW, nice reels Karl & Iceman!

Sam

Gotta love the coffe grind handle...

Good photos. Shouldn't be a problem. I have a 650ss down the cellar I will have to look at it and see how it comes apart. Probably somewhat similar. At one time I used spinning gear all the time but now only use spinning gear now when a novice is with me . It is easier to let them use the spinning gear then to pick backlashes out every five mins. Do you run into sand getting into the drag washer with the cup, as you call it, open on the sides. As I said I am willing to machine what ever you want. Just drop me a PM and we will discuss. Paul

How much weight do you lose when drilling and slotting a 706Z?

Originally posted by rwilhelm
How much weight do you lose when drilling and slotting a 706Z?

I'm kinda curious about that myself.

very very little,,,if i knew a drug dealer i'd borrow his scale, oh well:hee:

I agree with Goose. I haven't weighed them after the job because I didn't care about the weight savings. I would guess about a half an ounce if you drill & cut slots, maybe more if you drill the spool too.

I figured as much.Some of those reels look real nice though.

i'd be curious to have a conversion made. as well. i've always been a fan of the 704/706 series reels, but they had negative qualities that finally made me buy a VS. i still feel that they are the best overall alternative in the surf if you cannot buy a VS. now mine are backups.

the 706 was one of my original workhorses, but the roller noise finally got to me and the 704 w/ a manual bail returned. to my lineup. i figured that if penn would only take the time and money to put into this reel better metals and a few technology advancements, this would be the end all reel again. some of those included a anti-reverse roller bearing to replace the anti-reverse gear, dog, and spring which always fail. next, use higher quality aluminum in the spool, body, handle, and rotor to limit annodization. i know that when you scratch the annodized spool, salt corrodes it quickly and you need to paint it. i'd pay $200 for that type of reel all day long, but that will never come. i'm surprized no aftermarket company never did this like accurate did for the senator/squidder/jm reels. between painting spools, regreasing the reel weekly, cleaning drags daily, i just got tired of the tlc this reel needed for everyday service in the surf. thus, a VS.

now, professor, i taken my rotors and drilled holes in the bottom. each opening had a 1/4" drill hole in it. i didn't care about the sides of the cup as that just sprays water on my hands. sucks when it's cold. i'd pay for a higher quality metal cup with just those holes made in it and no stupid penn stickers on the side. of course, no bail - man conv. now, the next item would be a better housing cover. the new ones are plastic and the old ones are aluminum. both do not do a good job. i'd like to see a higher tollerance cover that is tigher and maybe includes a %$%$%$%$ing to make it water tight. i'm sure just extending the lips on both side that cover the housing would work, as well as tighter tolerences.

Originally posted by SeaWolf


i'd like to see a higher tollerance cover that is tigher and maybe includes a %$%$%$%$ing to make it water tight. i'm sure just extending the lips on both side that cover the housing would work, as well as tighter tolerences.

good point.

As far as making a cup, as you call them, I would have to see what they look like up close. I am not sure how the bail thing would be machined in. I would like to see how these manual bail things work too. I have an idea but am unfamilar with them. I think a member is going to come over tonite to give me one to modify and then I can see what they look like in person. As far as the side plate I will look at that too. Couldn't you just make a gasket out of thin neoprene rubber and squish it between the cover and the body. Draw file the body and cover flat and x-acto knife the gasket and tighten down. The only problem is you file off the anodizing and then you will get corrosion. Also wouldn't h2o get in thru the %$%$%$%$ing where the shaft goes in and out and into the gearcase. O rings could be incorporated into it. Not having one of these reels I am just speculating on these things. I will make an effort to get a hold of one of these reels in the near future so I will not be talking out my as.. Paul

What is up with the word %$%$%$%$ing? A bird in the hand is worth two in the %$%$%$%$. I guess it is just the word %$%$%$%$.:eek: Guess I will leave it there. P.M.

Originally posted by Moses


I thought 'thefishingfreak' did a step by step on drilling holes/vanstallizing a 704 but did a search and came up empty. Maybe he'll chime in here.....

i did a 9500SS.
i will never go back to having a bail/plug donator again.
i just cut the bail off and filed down the nub super spooth
i think the smaller ones you can just take the bail out of? the 9500 you have to cut.

testors gold model paint is as close as you can get to the gold anodizing, thats what i touched up the holes in the spool with:)

I drilled my holes last night and replaced the bail with manual kit.Took all of about a half hour for the whole job.

Gonna start on the finish after my coffee.

What did you use to strip the paint- Zipstrip? Also, what kind of clear finish and how has it held up to rigorous use?

i used chemical aircraft stripper. then dremeled the ba-jesus out of it.
too smooth for the clear to stick, so it just gets oiled.

Very nice work, Freak!


:humpty: