which make/model conventional do you guys prefer or would use for dunkin'? i don't mean chunk dunkin' i mean standing in the surf up to my eyeballs dunkin'. the whole breaking down the real and cleaning bit would suck so i'd like to know which one i could use all night, rinse it off and head back out the next night with less worry. you guys are starting to get me addicted!

I dont own one, but i hear the saltiga is sweet and corrosian resistant.

thanks eben, just checked them out. sweet reels but at that price, looks like i won't be owning one either. i might add that levelwind is my preference, night fishing is that much easier with it.

from personal experience, the avet is the only reel i have found that can take that kind of fishing. the bearings are sealed, and the drag is not affected by water. all it needs is a good rinse. the SX looks small, but holds a ton of line. you just need to be able to get used to the lever drag. i never wetsuited with mine this past season, but i will be taking it out with a suit this year.

Hunan,
A levelwind is going to be fragile in the water, especially if salt or sand gets clogged in the worm gear. I haven't done this yet so I am not speaking from experience, but IMHO a reel with no bearings will be a better choice. A %$%$%$%$ing model that is clean and oiled will last longer than a bearing model. The %$%$%$%$ing model will not cast as far on dry land where you can get some leverage when casting. While in the water casting for any kind of distance is limited, so bearings are not the issue they are on land.
I am going to grease up the jack, yoke, springs, main and pinion gears well and give it a shot. Also any reel with casting blocks is going to act like a paddle wheel once the block drum loads up with water. The reel I am thinking of is not expensive and has been around for a long time.
Good Luck,
Steve

The word I wanted to use obviously is part of a no-no list. Sounds like our presidents last name with a ing on the end.
Booooooshing is as close as I can get.
Steve:)

Steve- you thinking a squidder? well, it won't work. the drag will be ruined after getting soaked with saltwater. they will stand up to splashings of salt every once in a while, but if the reel is to be dunked and only rinsed off afterwards without being broken down, the squidder will fail pretty fast. to fit the parameters Hunan is looing for, there is to be no daily maintenance aside from rinsing.

This is one of the reasons I got a sealed spinning reel for wading :D

-spence

Originally posted by spence
This is one of the reasons I got a sealed spinning reel for wading :D it is the ONLY reason i even own spinning reel.

tlapinski,
Not a Squidder, a Squidder has ball bearings. The drag washers on all the newer penns and Newells are pretty much the same 3 fiber and 3 stainless or brass. Newells as per Carl Newells directions are to be soaked in fresh water (submerged) for 15 minutes. Avet drags are very much like the same material as HT-100.
The reel I am thinking of and not mentioning will be packed with grease and dunked in fresh water after salt water submersion. Once a month I will break it down and regrease and oil the %$%$%$%$ings. Nothing much new under the sun unless your manufacturing the item. Can't get worked up over all the new shiny stuff that has less substance than the older items.
Good Luck,
Steve:)

the Avet drag does look like the HT-100 material, but i beleive i read it is a different material. care to divulge the name of your super secret reel? :confused:

I've plugged and chunked with the 7000 BG many a time in big surf. I'ld wade over 150 yrds so when rebaiting or releaseing fish the 7000 was under often, fishing that set-up was not a 1 or 2 night thing. I always try and keep my reel high and treat it like what it is but calm waters mean quite nights. Religously I rinse and clean as soon as I get home. I replace drag washers maybe once a year. Even under those conditions I am laying into my casts just about every time with little problem. I'll still fish the 7000 in that manner if I have to but prefer a spinner, if you continually fish conv. then its just a matter of time before salt takes its toll.

thanks for the help fellas. i thought about the worm gear right after i typed that post. maybe i just might have to go with a spinner, although that means having to buy another rod. could be worse things i guess. it's just that i have a lami convench that i matched up with an abu rocket and would prefer just having to switch reels when the going gets real wet. i'll take a look at the avets also. what's up with the super secret reel? like i said, i will do the rinsing after each use just not the cleaning. just got in from shoveling out a snowplow hero who got stuck not once but twice in my driveway. it winds downhill! pushed snow where we told him not to and he couldn't back up. no weight in the bed and steel coming out of his rear tires (read bald). if it was legal to snap someone in half, today would have been my day. i'm done venting now and thanks again.

hunan, did the reel have to be a levelwind? if so, the avet is out. sorry if i missed that part. :smash:

I second or third the squidder as a bad choice... great workhorse, but not happy when wet..... :smash:

Has anyone ever tried the Okuma reels? Specifically the Titus Gold.

Below is a quote from one of the big tackle web-sites

"A precision aligned T6061 aluminum spool and five sealed stainless steel ball bearings assure silky-smooth free spooling and enhanced castability. Angled teeth on the stainless steel pinion and oversized main gear provide the strongest gearing available. Lever drag with oversized composite and sealed, stainless steel drag washers make certain that these reels can endure multiple long runs in harsh conditions. "

Sealed bearing and sealed drag. I don't swim with my reels and I am very careful to avoid dunking, but it does happen. I am going with the Avet based on the information I have gotten from this site (a lot from TLap) and additional research. But for those of you skish (or whatever it's called) or swim out to a location....people that really need a reel that can stand a dunking, might want to take a look at these. I have not fished with them, or spoken to anyone who has.

anyone have any practical experience with these reels?

-IWK

I've been using one for the last 3 years, but it's a trolling or bait reel. Way too big for surf casting.
Great reel though.

Bernzy

hey tlap, actually a levelwind isn't needed they are just easier. i taught myself conventional on a non-levelwind figuring i might as well learn on the harder of the 2. casting IN the surf i won't need the distance i would need if i was casting INTO the surf so i won't mind thumbing the spool before it lands.

Another thing you could do is just stick a spinning reel on your conventional rod. I have no spinning rods and when I take somebody along who has no gear I just stick a 704 on one of my conventionals. You may lose a little distance, but you said you're in the soup and don't need to cast that far.

hey longshot, would i have to reel upside-down? :laughs: just playin'. after further review i think i might try the avet or saltiga. i do want to get my hands on them both to get a feel as to which one i might prefer though. anybody know who might carry them both for a side by side showdown?

Whatever you do – go with a reel without the level wind!
I’ve dunked many conventional outfits and suffice to say, no reel was able to sustain the saltwater dunking. I’ve modified a few (with extra thick gug, consistent lubing) but with limited results. However, if you are willing to rinse it accordingly to every trip or so, your best bet would be the Abu non-levelwind models or the Newell 229-332. Those reels are underrated but treasured by those in the know. ;)

“Crazy” Alberto
NonStopFisher@Optonline.net

The Newells and Abus are also a lot easier to take down and clean, than say, a Squidder, Daiwa Sealine or a Penn GS.

Hiya Al :D

Abu's are much easier to take down than Newells.

Keep in mind all the abu's have casting blocks that rotate inside of a drum, which give you backlash control. When you dunk that reel the drum will fill with water and slow the spool down excessively, even if the blocks are removed there are four spokes on the 7000 models and two spokes on the 6500 and lower models.
Yes it is easier to take down an abu, but the abu is a more delicate reel when fished under ideal conditions. All the stainless steel bearings on these reels will fail very quickly. I just changed a seized bearing on my Newell S-235-5, which never was submerged and was treated with care. If you service your own reels you will quickly see that all this multiple bearing "mania "is actually a weakeness when it comes to reel durability, if not treated with reasonable care. Yes, it will cast further and feel smoother , but that will be the first thing that will not work. All the mag models (rare earth mags) if not anodized or coated with epoxy or nail polish/epoxy will rust up even faster.
The quick take down screw on the Squidder and Jigmaster is a nice feature and they are not hard to strip down to the right side plate. The Newell has all stainless steel guts and has an integrated stainless plate, making it a nice reel to strip down.
The Penn GS reels are built like tanks, but have multiple ball bearings and an anti reverse roller bearing, which the salt will probably love to ruin, even if they claim the ball bearings are sealed.
A less complicated reel gooped up well and submerged in fresh water after swimming may be the answer IMHO.
Good Luck,
Steve:)

My guess is that Steve is referring to a surfmaster or beachmaster. Jigmaster would be too heavy and bulky.
:happy:

thanks guys for your help. so basically, nobody has developed a bullet proof or should i say watertight reel yet. i've got an abu 7000 pro rocket w/levelwind but am looking for another rod/reel combo for night time. maybe i should go with a custom spinner and manual bail reel because this seems more the way to go for this application. probably will be used for throwing swimmers and eels. i just don't like too much throwing braid with my finger, you guys tape up your fingers? i'm looking for someone to build me a custom so if anyone's up to it let me know. i mean measuring arm length and everything else that goes with it. so, with all that said i think i'll go with a spinner combo, any suggestions now? let's try and keep it under 4 beans if that is possible.

Hunan- Conventionals are great in some ways but for what you want a spinner would be fine. Penn 706 with grease (not too expensive) and a basic 10-11ft rod would be fine. As for braid, youll cut you finger bad if you use a really thin diameter with a loose drag. The drag slips and the line cuts into your finger. If you keep a tight enough drag so the line doesnt slip in mid cast youll be fine. When youre in the surf, with waves dunking your reel and a strong wind in your face casting an eel, its nice to have a spinning reel.

Originally posted by hunan
i just don't like too much throwing braid with my finger, you guys tape up your fingers? go to a restaurant supply store and buy finger cots. they are basically little tiny condoms that fit on your finger. you want the heavy restaurant grade rubber, not the cheap ones that CVS sells. you can buy a box of 1000 for maybe $15 - $20. i have been using them for many years, and i never cut my fingers on the braid. you also get a much better grip on the braid than using the old school leather finger guards or tape will EVER give you! everyone i have shown them to has gone out and bought some of their own.

I have tried all kinds of gaurds hated most of them and ended up taping my my finger with waterproof medical tape. It is a little slick at firsts but after a few casts it wears a little and you get a decent grip. I have never tried a rubber finger cot but I will. I wouldn't think they would be heavy enough but I trust Toby's judgement. If they work for him they probaly will work for me.


Nothing like the feeling of braid cutting your wet finger to the bone in the morning as the sun is coming up...feel the burn.:eek:

Sandman, make sure you get the heavier ones. If you can' find any, let me know and i can get you some.

Are you guys talking about Power Pro cutting you? I use Fireline and never have had this problem. I am think about trying PP this year.

Power pro is much thinner than fireline pound for pound.. for example, I hve 20 lb fire line on my schoolie rod and its a tad thicker in diameter than the 50lb powerpro on my cow stick. All my cuts on my index finder are always on the inside of my knuckle and they come from either tightening knots or pulling agianst my drag to get some line out of the reel... All on the power pro, none form the fireline :mad:

Yeah that is why I want to try PP, I guess I will have to be careful.

Due to wetsuiting my fingers shrivel and made casting #50 PP a nightmare by day break. I normaly wouldn't use any finger protection if fishin 3 or 4 hrs. If you plan on being in the water useing #30 wear something or learn to cast with each finger.:rolleyes::D

I end up putting a wrap of tape on the crease of my pinky where the line always cuts in for knots.. You do need to protect your skin from braid a lot more then mono.

IMO PP is worth it. I found fireline to work ok but seems too thick for the # test, also I think it is not a round line (or at least the line I used wasn't round). I like the thin-ness feature of PP.

PP is great for casting distance... and even better for bottom fishing from a boat. I can fish 100' of water with a 2-3 oz sinker in a good drift and my line is almost straight down. The mono fishermen next to me has an 8 oz weight and his line is a mile away from the boat. Then there is the stretch and feel factor and is lasts much longer and is much better in cold weather then mono...no question about it braid is better for many types of fishing. Also I love the squeeeling sound it makes as it screems thru SIC guides.

The only problems I see with braid is that
1) tangles are harder to fix
2) cuts in hands
3) It is not as abraisve resistant as mono
4) you need the right reel to fish it else it is a nightmare.

Last summer I loaded the same reel with PP, fireline, stren braid, and cortland braid. Fished a couple days with each. For me I liked PP.

Also did a rock test....under tension ran it accross a rock, not super scientific but as uniform as I could...mono lasts the longest before breaking. Braid cuts the soonest. Good mono is pretty abraision resistant. I have heard there is a new braid that is very abrisive resistant but I have not tried it.

I think PP made some improvements last year...no more mystery breakoffs but I did snap a couple lures off due to my own screw-ups. Set up on the right reel I have had less problems with PP then mono. Your mileage may vary :)

If you fish less then 30# PP you are taking really thin line. It casts like you snaped off the plug but it cuts. 50# + is not that bad and casts like 14# mono I found. Some of my lighter spinners have 15-30# PP and it is like casting a line with almost hair-like thickness.


Getting back on topic...What I would like to know is what is your favorite conv reel (stock from the factory with no mods) (cost no object) just for surfcasting?

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Getting back on topic...What I would like to know is what is your favorite conv reel (stock from the factory with no mods) (cost no object) just for surfcasting? day in and day out, no dunking general surfcasting, any of the 7xxx Abu's. for specialized surf situatons, avet sx or penn 525gs.

Originally posted by Steve HC
Keep in mind all the abu's have casting blocks that rotate inside of a drum, which give you backlash control. When you dunk that reel the drum will fill with water and slow the spool down excessively, even if the blocks are removed there are four spokes on the 7000 models and two spokes on the 6500 and lower models.
Yes it is easier to take down an abu, but the abu is a more delicate reel when fished under ideal conditions. All the stainless steel bearings on these reels will fail very quickly. I just changed a seized bearing on my Newell S-235-5, which never was submerged and was treated with care. If you service your own reels you will quickly see that all this multiple bearing "mania "is actually a weakeness when it comes to reel durability, if not treated with reasonable care. Yes, it will cast further and feel smoother , but that will be the first thing that will not work. All the mag models (rare earth mags) if not anodized or coated with epoxy or nail polish/epoxy will rust up even faster.
The quick take down screw on the Squidder and Jigmaster is a nice feature and they are not hard to strip down to the right side plate. The Newell has all stainless steel guts and has an integrated stainless plate, making it a nice reel to strip down.
The Penn GS reels are built like tanks, but have multiple ball bearings and an anti reverse roller bearing, which the salt will probably love to ruin, even if they claim the ball bearings are sealed.
A less complicated reel gooped up well and submerged in fresh water after swimming may be the answer IMHO.
Good Luck,
Steve:)

Hello Steve,
That's a great reply and I agree with most of your assessments. However, I still have to stand on my recommendation (Newells and “Non-level” wind Abu) because it has served me well (and other sharpies) and on many occasions, yours truly has culled several bragging fish with it. Again, I have to reinstate that I don’t believe there is one single reel in today’s marketplace that is able to sustain the saltwater dunking abuse but given the circumstances, I recommend the reel with great functionality and that allows easy modifications.

What I like to know is... what are your reel recommendations? I am duly impressed with your knowledge of the integral / internal components - in your best assessments, which reel do you recommend? :)

“Crazy” Alberto
NonStopFisher@Optonline.net

you guys brought back some very painful memories of braid slicing my fingers. :crying: boy does that hurt. i'm thinking if i wrap, tape or cot my finger that should do the trick. with the spinner it will be lobbing eels and smaller plugs not as far or with as much force as trying to put a 5 oz. jig halfway across the canal. i will leave that up to my conventional.

I want one of these baaad :D

hey eben, maybe we can get a discount on buying 2.

Hello Crazy Alberto,
Hope your winter is going well. I agree with you on the Newells. Have the 235 and 229 they are excellent casting reels, although noisy. As the commercial goes "they are the most corrosion resistant reels". It seems that you have to grease (white lithium) the spool axle otherwise those no-lub bearings (1997 on)will seize right on the shaft. I was using 3 in 1 red can on the spool axle (pinion). The grease doesn't seem to effect the cast much at all.
This past fall watched a fellow skish/ wade with a Penn 965 International, I wonder if the reel survived the punishment?
Why abuse a somewhat pricey reel like that?
My idea involves a Penn 155L or 209M with the levelwind removed, basically the same reel. The drags are the same as the Penn 500 Jigmaster, which are also the same set up as the Newells. Plain, inexpensive reels with %$%$%$%$ings instead of bearing s that are going to seize. If you rip one Penn down they are all basically the same design. I'll keep you posted on the results of my experiment. Hopefully I'll have something good to pass along.
Probably see you at a sweetwater spot.
Good Luck,
Steve:)

Anyone have any idea why a decent sealed reel has not been put on the market?


For the price of reels and the marketplace to sell them in, seems like one of these companies would have found a solution by now.

At this point, I am starting to lean towards the, buy cheap and replace as needed.

-IWK

holy cow iwk, you just wrote what i was thinking!! you'd think there would be an absolute "go to" reel when dunking is a must.

Iwanakeepa,
That's my line of reasoning. Go cheap and have fun!
No one has made a sealed conventional because there is such a small percentage of guys who enter the water with a reel and a still smaller group that uses a conventional to plug with. To give you an example there are four guys I know of on the South shore of long island that actually plug with a conventional reel. I am sure there are many more that chunk with them, but that is a different ball game all together. If the boat users found a need for a waterproof conventional it would have been done years ago.
The fact of the mater is the surf fisherman is a mere fart in a hurricane when it comes to the fishing populace. Even if they did make a sealed conventional it would be expensive and I probably wouldn't buy it if I had a reasonable alternative.
Good Luck,
Steve:)

Originally posted by Steve HC
To give you an example there are four guys I know of on the South shore of long island that actually plug with a conventional reel.

Well, if you ever run into me, you'll know of 5 ;)

6! :D

uh, hello! make that 7. Democrat Point to to Shinny, it's mostly conventional for me. Can we say XRA 132-2? :hihi:

Originally posted by Steve HC
My idea involves a Penn 155L or 209M with the levelwind removed, basically the same reel. The drags are the same as the Penn 500 Jigmaster, which are also the same set up as the Newells. Plain, inexpensive reels with %$%$%$%$ings instead of bearing s that are going to seize. If you rip one Penn down they are all basically the same design. I'll keep you posted on the results of my experiment. Hopefully I'll have something good to pass along. my one issue with this idea is the drag will still absorb saltwater and need to be changed after each time they are totally submerged. this is a big reason why i moved away from Penn Z's. unless you want to service your reel every time out, you need either a sealed drag or a drag un-affected by water. this is where the Avet comes in. as i stated earlier, their drag can be totally soaked and it still functions 100%. give the reel a quick fresh water soaking after each trip, and you are good to go. why use a bus-hing reel to prevent the reel from seizing, when your drag will still crap out? :huh:

tlapinski,
A Penn Z reel was used for this purpose before any sealed drag system reels came along. The original wetsuiters used these reels with the Ht-100 drag washers and never had a problem. If you open up a Penn conventional drag stack or Newell,you will see they are larger than the majority of spinner drag stacks and that's why the boat fisherman use them, because of their superior drag systems. I am sure the Avet is a well designed reel. I wish you the best with your Avet.
Good Luck,
Steve:)

i know the wetsuiters used to use the Z's until better, sealed drags came along. there may be more drag washers in the penn conventionals, but they will still absorb the water, then they dry, leave a crust of salt, which renders the drag crap. i lost a couple good fish to 706 drags sticking because i didn't remember to change the washers after the reel was totally submerged. sure, this was my fault for not tending my gear, but i would rather not have to deal with an uncertain drag. hell, i killed a pile of VS drags, so i have my issues with them any way.

let me know how your reel works out, as i am always interested in other options. like yourself, i throw conventional the vast majority of the time when plugging. when i am not dunking the reel, i throw 7xxx class abus.