I have a meeting to go to with DEM about enforcement issues. Can you give me some what you saw over the past year regarding DEM enforcement? Not looking for philosophical discussion as much as ideas or instances. I may or may not be able to bring things to the table but I would like to forward some concerns for you anglers if the opportunity presents itself - thanks!

John

people from other lands killing shorts, people ignoring herring regs, no dem after numerious calls...

Herring poaching
short bass being kept
over the limit being kept
access being blocked/hidden/posted when it is public


are you looking for specifics?

More enforcement in the field is needed

Originally posted by Slipknot
Herring poaching
short bass being kept
over the limit being kept
access being blocked/hidden/posted when it is public


are you looking for specifics?

More enforcement in the field is needed
Yep, That's a good start.
Look, I spend a heck of a lot of time fishing, it'd be nice to see those guys once in a while. I spotted the green truck with thw gold stripe maybe 5 times last season. Maybe 5. No more.

YES, ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!!! IT IS ABSOLUTELY AWFUL. THERE IS TOTAL DISREGARD FOR THE LAW. DEM needs to make it somehow hurt and spread the word that they will get fined big time. I also think some DEM officers need to go undercover and nail some of these slobs and poachers. I see them all the time, particularly at Beavertail. There is no way that just a fisherman could say something to these poachers without getting into a major confrontation. Lobo

I totally agree with everything already said. Now maybe it isn't the DEM's responsibility, but while there's ranting going on, I absolutely can't stand going somewhere beautiful, which most spots are, and seeing litter all over the place. Also, people that fight a fish for a really long time, tire it out, jiggle the hook out of its mouth, and kick it down the rocks or shore back to the water may as well just keep the darn fish since they've likely killed it. Are improper release methods an offense? I haven't seen any enforcement officers all year. We obviously need more.

Illegally spear fishing and private property tresspass, followed by tire slashing when called out.

Originally posted by Lobo
I see them all the time, particularly at Beavertail.

:uhuh:

u can definitely start there for aggressive enforcement.

hate to say it, but it's the damn scuppers/toggers that poach AND litter there.

can kill 2 birds with one stone if they could just get more people out there.

They should have officers out of uniform at a different harbor every day of the week counting the charter boat catches when the first mate unloads the catch.

Castle Hill ,especially the point facing north to the bridge during blackfish season , always has people keeping shorts and way more than the allotted number of fish. (and they throw all the trash on the rocks too) . The during the rest of the scup season Brenton Point and adjacent rocks will have the scup army out there poaching away . Same thing at Sachuest Point ,but that's Federal property .

Lack of enforcement/ visibility

I mean cripes dont get out of the truck FINE.. check ppl/coolers as they leave ;)

Castle hill area is reallly bad joe, i watch all those num nutz over there while i work every day. There probally is the most trash there of any area by far.

In my experience, most of the 6 pack charter boats are pretty legit... you have to remember when there are 6 guys plus capt and mate, the legal limit looks like a lot of fish..

That being said I have seen certain boats take small/too many fish of a certain fall/winter species.... but I think its more the exception than the rule...

As far as enforcement....

All of the named spots so far... DEM should have a more visible pressanse; Have a guy in a truck make the rounds on a Sat/Sun morning everyweek... hit B-tail, Brenton etc... they cant be everywhere at once, but at least be visible...

Potent fines which actually discourage the offenders would probably be the best bet.

I doubt we'll ever see more green trucks with gold stripes, currently the money just isn't there.

If people had more fear of the consequences, even with thin enforcement more people would think twice about "keeping a few shorts."

John,
From a boater's perspective. They should crack down on all the out of state party and charter boats fishing in RI waters without the required permits. There are also more than few boaters keepong short bass on the north bar and SW corner of Block Island.

Boost the possession fines to $1,000 a pop for violations plus gear (tackle, boat, auto) seizures like they do elsewhere - and have the officers check catch coolers. A $50 fine is hardly a deterrent.

The word will get out if they enforce the law vigorously - and if the prosecutors and the courts take it all seriously rather than hand out what is barely a slap on the wrist now.

Mike;
re: out of state boats

They'd have to crack down on the RI boats fishing in Mass and Ct. one prominant RI party boat fishes in Mass waters all fall... even when we (my family) ran a head boat (10+yrs ago) most of our scup fishing was done in mass waters...

I think thats a tough call to enforce...

That being said a green truck at Great I bridge ramp etc.. would be a good thing on a busy weekend....

beavertail and black point are where i saw the most poaching taking place. in both spots i saw people filleting short fish on the rocks and then hiding them. One guy told me he saw them put a fillet down his shirt so that it wouldn't be visible when he came up the path. i called the DEM hotline a coupla times and they never showed up.

i'm sure this has already been mentioned before but maybe you could suggest posting signs detailing what will happen (ie. fines, confiscation of personal belongings, etc.) in a coupla different languages.

How bout a ratt line that realy works.

sounds like the problem is not enough manpower to cover the area.

either DEM should partner up with local law enforcement or hire/assign new people.

it's going to cost more money, but I wonder if the extra hiring will be paid for by all those fines and seized asset liquidations. :laughs:

Originally posted by bart
beavertail and black point are where i saw the most poaching taking place. in both spots i saw people filleting short fish on the rocks and then hiding them. One guy told me he saw them put a fillet down his shirt so that it wouldn't be visible when he came up the path. i called the DEM hotline a coupla times and they never showed up.

i'm sure this has already been mentioned before but maybe you could suggest posting signs detailing what will happen (ie. fines, confiscation of personal belongings, etc.) in a coupla different languages.

One thing that was promoted a couple years ago by the Newport club was to post regs in many languages regarding bag limits / fines. I fully concur that it is a relatively low cost enforcement tool that could be implemented.

One thing to keep in mind is that RI DEM does not have a lot of EPOs to go around doing this work. One thing that was explained to us was that there are 37 (edited the number as I was off) some EPOs in the state to cover inland enforcement, FW recreational fishing, SW Rec fishing, Commercial fishing, Environmental concerns / disasters. Even though they have added 8 or so officers this year, they only have something less than 42 officers to handle inland (where the senior officers apparently like to work), investigations, covering 3 8 hour shifts per day, court dates, weekends, shellfishing, the fish dealers, etc. So even if they increased EPOs by 50%, they would still be way undergunned for coverage. Also, the EPOs hired actually go thru the states police academy and are real officers in addition to their environmental specific training.

sad to say, but the park rangers at places like Beavertail bust more nude sunbathers than fish poachers and litterbugs. :rolleyes:

Enforcing the RI licensing laws on out of state boats shouldn't be too tough. The officers can just print out a listing of out of state boats that have licenses before they go out. Then they'll know which ones to stop.

Also, they need to do something about people fishing for bass in the EEZ! Go out to the sub buoy or SW ledge any day and look at all the boats fishing in the EEZ for stripers!

plus they could do both with one patrol out there.

Originally posted by fishweewee
sad to say, but the park rangers at places like Beavertail bust more nude sunbathers than fish poachers and litterbugs. :rolleyes:

One intersting note, a lot of the summer DEM staff at the parks are not EPOs and have no legal authority to bust people...

well, if you've got a badge and a gun and a ticket book, you're a sworn peace officer, right?

i'm no legal expert, but aren't sworn peace officers obligated to uphold ALL laws of the state?

:laughs: "DEM Enforcement" is an oximoron. There is no real enforcement. And what little enforcement there is has no teeth to it. Fines are lame. Jail time? Ask about the punishment for taking too many sb or an undersize fish. Ask how many arrests were made in 04 and what was the magnitude of the fines?


Until the law has real teeth...enforcement cannot be effective.

Besides you're talking RI here...a few cops with out much resourses in an openly corrupt state..fogetaboutit


Personally, I suggest you swing by Hooters for a more productive evening.

Originally posted by Mr. Sandman
Besides you're talking RI here...a few cops with out much resourses in an openly corrupt state..fogetaboutit

okay. Rhody must be a great place to be a crook.

John,
Try and get some statistics from last season on how many busts were made for rod and reel finfish violations - this will help us see what we're up against. Also see if anyone was busted for "Littering". That has always been an issue when discussing surf fishing access areas.
Might be nice to know just how many DEM enforcement staff are working at any given time - especially weekends.
Looking forward to your answers.
DZ

How about a DEM hot line. That way they may be able to concertrate on problem areas. This would be up to people who respect the ocean to report violators.

After a while hopefully it will weed out the bad apples.



Nothing bugs me more that people treating thr fishing areas as there own personal DUMP.

Does anybody know if the finds get back to the DEM to help fund their budget

Jeff

JBuck,
Re:"Does anybody know if the finds get back to the DEM to help fund their budget."

You're kidding right? After all this is RI.

I know silly me!

I was just thinking as the more fines they give the more they would have to spend on inforcement.

DEM HOTLINE VIOLATIONS 800-498-1336

I have the following numbers on my phone.

RI DEM =========> 401-222-3070

MA EPO =========> 800-632-8075

The best that you can do without confronting these poachers and litterbugs is to call the above numbers. If there is no response then call again until there so peed off that when they do arrive they will have fire in there blood and I wouldn't want to be the one that is poaching.

Interesting meeting, discussed a few issues that were going for some review and clarification. Hopefully have some info soon...

I don't know if you will meet with them again John, but if you do could you drop a word or 2 for me? Being a minority myself I try to keep friends and others aware of the regs. Often times iget dumped into the catagory: since I'm a minority I litter, take shorts and ignore regs.

Now I admit there are some from my background who do blatantly abuse regs. Matter a fact, one time after I released an undersized striper last year, this guy comes screaming at me: you give ME fish. I was pissed, told him to f* off and that you couldn't keep it since it's too small. He started fishing next to me and I was glad he couldn't catch a cold never mind a fish.

However there are many of us who follow the regs so dumping us all into one catagory is frustrating. I only ran into officers twice last season, both times at the same area of Boston. It so happened at both times there were only minorities fishing and many of them. Ididn't see any regs broken b/c everybody would tell any newcomers about the laws and possible fines associated. I was glad when I saw the officers actively checking (one on the pier and a boat as well) and enforcing regs, but after they checked they ran their boat right along the pier at full throttle scaring fish and running over everybody's lines. Everyone reset, then 20-30 min later. The boat comes slowly along the pier, then a little ways from eveybody the driver throws it into full throttle and it became a mad dash to get your line in before you lost it. Digusted I left with many others.

Point is I follow the regs and hate to see others abuse them, but call the DEM? Not high on my priority list anymore, don't need harrassed along with those breaking the law. :mad: