What do you guys think of this dirtbag's allegation? Personally I'm inclined to believe SOME of what he said and what i've heard, only based on the fact that if he is trying to make money off this book, he stands to lose a lot more money in lawsuits for slander so why even bother if the allgations aren't true? He's either one of the biggest idiots on the face of the earth or he is dead on accurate with his allegations. I just don't see his motives for the timing of this book either...why now? Why when he's 5 years removed from the game? Why not when McGuire and Sosa (both implicated in the book) were in the middle of their HR race? I think he missed his boat...his original plan was probably to out the MLB and thier lack of a roid policy, but Victor Conte and BALCO beat him to the punch. This is either going to shed a whole new light on a bunch of players metioned in the book or absolutely blow up in his face and he's gonna come out as even more of a fool than he already is.

honestly i dont think the man is all there. i think that flyball did more damage then we think :P

One---Canseco is and always has been a dirtbag.

Two--most of those "Bash Brothers" were on the juice. You'd have to have your head in the sand to believe otherwise. Guys like McGwire, Parker, both Hendersons, Canseco--you could see how cut their thigh muscles were thru their uniform pants.

Parker was always big--but in Oakland he was cut like a bodybuilder.

Rickey--always nursing that pulled hamstring. Whe you juice, your muscles gain strength way out of proportion to the connecting ligaments and tendons. You're always pulling something, it seems.

Mike, being an attorney, beside actually being guilty of juicing what other reasons would you say guys like Clemens, Bret Boone, McQuire etc. would have for not filing a slander suit against Canseco? A guy at work and I are having that arguement. He feels that these guys have a lot to lose going to court with him, I feel the same way except they have more to lose NOT suing him.

TBONE - --Off topic sorry --- but I'm listening to Don't Fear the Reaper - and looking at your avitar - very funny. MORE COWBELL!!

Canseco is looking for $$ anywhere he can find it, tossing folks under the bus is down and dirty, he'll get his.
Until then MORE COWBELL!!!!!

They won't sue because it's almost impossible to prove a negative. Plus, being public figures, they have a higher burden to sustain to prove a defamation case than someone who's not in the public eye.

McGwire will never convince a jury that he didn't use steroids---it's (literally) written all over his face. He went from being a smooth faced young man to having a face pock-marked with acne scars, well after the age where he'd develop acne naturally. Same thing with Pudge Rodriguez.

Also---it wasn't contrary to baseball's rules to use steroids until recently, and in many states, they weren't classified as controlled substances until the 1990s. They're still legal to use under medical supervision--altho no doctor in his right mind would prescribe them for adding muscle. So he's not really accusing them of breaking the rules, or engaging in criminal acts.

jose is a pos, you don't name names.

Originally posted by afterhours
jose is a pos, you don't name names.

He is a POS,
But anyone can see that guys like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, and lots of others used steroids!!!
I've got to think that the older guys who set the records honestly,
don't mind !!! seeing that their records are being broken by CHEATERS!!!

Narc and a Scab and a rat..:smash:

Forget Conseco, I think MLB . should get some nads, and change the rules for records. A rule that would allow them to takes all of Bonds records away.


The guy wonders why no one respects him :rolleyes:

i'd like to know why we as fans are letting this bother us now. we all knew when these guys were hitting 60 and 70 homeruns that they were on the juice. yet we still watched and cheered them on to break the 61 homerun barrier. no one said then, we'd better test these guys. was it because it was good for baseball, of course. take a look at some of these guys' rookie cards and then tell me that you couldn't tell. i also don't understand what cana$$o thinks he has to gain from this. he's a dope who will probably get his for writing that book. also, all of professional bodybuilding is on steroids and nobody is saying anything about them. while i realize we're talking apples and orchards here it is still a professional "sport" where the fans want to see bigger, badder and freakier specimens every day. if we keep filling their seats, then they'll keep shooting their arses. i say let's forget it all and go fishing!

If you really want to see how steroids have changed sports, go the the Pro Football Hall of Fame website and check the weights of some of the all-time great linemen and linebackers, and compare them to the average weight of guys playing those positions today.

John Hannah--265 lbs
Forrest Gregg--249 lbs
Dan Dierdorf--275 lbs
Rosey Brown--255 lbs
Larry Little--265 lbs
Ron Mix---250 lbs
Anthony Munoz--278 lbs
Jim Otto--255 lbs
Jim Ringo--232 lbs
Art Shell--265 lbs
Gene Upshaw--255 lbs
Mike Webster--255 lbs
Ron Yary---255 lbs
Carl Eller--247 lbs
Mean Joe Green--275 lbs
Deacon Jones--272 lbs
Howie Long--268 lbs
Bob Lilly--269 lbs
Merlin Olsen--270 lbs
Alan Page--245 lbs
Andy Robustelli--230 lbs
Jack Youngblood--247 lbs
Nick Buoniconti--220 lbs
#^&#^&#^&#^& Butkus---240 lbs
Jack Ham--225 lbs
Jack Lambert--220 lbs
Sam Huff--230 lbs
Ray Nitschke--235 lbs
Mike Singletary--230 lbs
Lawrence Taylor---237 lbs


Look at some of the current players who play the same positions:

Larry Allen, Cowboys--325 lbs
Adam Timmerman, Rams--310 lbs
Damian Woody, Lions--325 lbs
Benny Anderson, Ravens--345 lbs
Chris Dishman, Rams--375 lbs
Jamaal Jackson, Eagles--330 lbs
Frank Middleton, Raiders--330 lbs
Orlando Brown, Ravens---370 lbs
Chad Clifton, Packers--330 lbs
Jonathan Ogden, Ravens--345 lbs
Jon Runyan, Eagles--330 lbs
Sam Adams, Bills--330 lbs
Grady Jackson, Packers--340 lbs
Fred Robbins, Giants--330 lbs
Ted Washington, Raiders--365 lbs

The Ravens' offensive line averages something like 330. You can count on one hand the number of offensive linemen in the whole league who weigh less than 300. Munoz is the heaviest Hall of Famer at 278. And you could say the same for defensive tackles. Not many under 300. Defensive end is more of a speed position, so they've held at around 280, average. But, you'd never see guys like Eller and Youngblood at under 250 playing DE today. Linebackers like Lambert and Ham, they'd either play safety, or not play at all.

Yeah, but alot of those guys today are a bunch of lard-asses. Not like the real athletes of yesteryear. I don't think someone like Ted Washington is on steroids. Could be, but doesn't look it.

Actually, offensive linemen have become faster and more athletic over the years. Back then, the only athletes on the O-line were the guards. The center mostly blocked straight ahead on the nose tackle or MLB, and the tackles were slow-footed oafs who also blocked straight ahead.

Today, you have much more complex blocking schemes. Tackles and centers routinely pull and have to block OLBs, safeties and corners. You have guys like Gallery who weigh 325 and have 4.7 speed in the 40.

Roster weights are usually taken in training camp. I'll bet you Washington carries closer to 400 lbs by season's end. But under that blubber, there are quick muscles. I remember the Colts regular season game in 2003 where he beat his block and stopped Edgerinn James in the backfield on 4th and goal---saved the game for the Pats.

With guys like him and Sapp--it's not so much what they look like now, but what they did along the way to get to the point where they can carry all that weight without losing much quickness. Boil away the blubber and you'd see some impressive muscle mass underneath, I guarantee ya ;) On guys like Eller and Page, you saw big boned guys with those long, lean, natural muscles. Page, a judge these days, looks thin now but I'll bet you he still goes a good 225--all bone and lean muscle.

I am going to start juicing...maybe my fish will get bigger!:smash: The almighty dollar has ruined sports as we used to know it.....I am almost ready to give them up all together.:rolleyes:

stick to college sports! cept the pats ;)