There have been a lot of rumblings recently about a Recreational Saltwater License. The DEM, after having recently aquired, well pretty much stolen, fisheries management from having a voice (the groups are now only making recommendations, not managing anything :mad: ) has now started drafting plans for a Recreational Saltwater License like several other coastal states, but there is a twist.

Now most states that have a SW license do so to get a more accurate count of how many people are actually fishing and to get a better feel on the millions & millions that fishing brings to the local economies. These states also collect the license revenues and (usually) put them back into programs like access, angler education, better angler surveying, state of the fishies, enforcement, ya know - that sort of thing. There is also a federal program that will partially match funds generated by the state for many different environmental revenues, including the recreational fisheries. But the powers that be in Rhode Island are not looking to do that.

First, the federal matching is already fully implemented. No additional matching funds would be available as they've already been applied to other programs.

Second, as opposed to what you would think these monies would go towards, like back into making things better for either the fish or the recreational angler (I don't like that term), these monies would eventually just go into the general fund. I was not at the meeting but it was relayed to me that this money would initially go into it's own account, but there is no plan to put the money back in to anything related to fishing. More like a TAX than what we consider a Fishing License to be. Plus, after hearing from a state employee (nothing to do with DEM) that happens to be an angler opposed to this license, he says that many of these fees exist for other programs that are put into their own accounts which then get rolled directly into the general fund just days or hours before the legislative sessions end. That way they won't need to listen to the people make noise about it. Now this apparently has happened with many other "funds" from various state agencies but I have not been in Rhody long enough to witness it. This is common practice I'm told and they are pretty much already admitting that the money is not going back to support those that will be "taxed" to fish.

Third, a large majority of Rhode Island anglers are not opposed to this License provided that the money goes BACK into efforts that support our fishing and research of our fisheries - not some elected official's rainy day fund. Most out of state anglers are opposed because there is little doubt that a season's license would be more than that of a resident with them seeing perhaps smaller benefit. Now, personally, there is not a whole heck of a lot that I would benefit from better ramp facilities and fishing piers or handicap access to fishing spots but I do think they are all worthy initiatives. They improve the access to people in Rhode Island. Me?, I'd just like to not get a parking ticket when I park The Beast.

Fourth, it dies not seem likely that a SW License would be managed anything like the FW License (well, other than collecting the dinero for it) and it would not serve the same benefits that the FW fisherman receive - like stocking ponds, hatcheries, creating access, and studying the state of the fish...

This is really appearing to be a grab for cash with no substanital reinvestment to where this money could be properly used.

Now I think we would all benefit from these monies being returned to support fishing in Rhode Island. But that is pretty unlikely to happen. The state government just get's a little extra dough in the till... Hotel taxes to travelers - much of the money goes back in to that. The airport taxes, well they tend to support that infrastructure. Builder's licensing? Yep - at least some of that money goes back into that (although not as much as they generate). But a SW Fishing License? Nahh, they'll just spend that doing something totally unrelated....

When I find more info about this, such as meetings (there was one last week but I just heard about it last night) I'll pass that along.

I'm also interested in hearing what you think about it and under what conditions would you consider the license to be acceptable or not...

Thanks,

John

John,

I think your poins 3&4 hit it on the nail: Most anglers would accept, maybe even support, a license if all the money collected went towards helping the sport in terms of jetties and piers, law enforcement, stocking (as much as you can do or similar in saltwater), some habitat protection etc.

Most of the saltwater license issues here in NY have been the same thing. Only a fraction of the money ear marked for the fishery and the rest into the general fund. So it's another hidden tax.

Given the size and growth of the saltwater fishing industry even if a license did start out with all the money going back to the fishery I don't see how you could prevent the eventual redirection of the funds into other things, little by little.

I think a license is inevitable either way.

its all about $.

I am against it. Who will police it? This has been talked about for 20 years.

I support a recreational SW license as long as the money goes back into recreational SW fishing related programs. I would be very happy if the monies went to purchasing some small parking lots within reasonable walking distance of fishing locations. We could use upgraded ramps, rights of way for shore bound fishermen, increased enforcement the list goes on.

I am totally opposed to paying ANOTHER tax that goes into the general fund............

My fishing is already taxed, I pay tax on bait, I pay tax on the gas I use to drive to fish, I pay tax on when I buy equipment and if I'm not careful I pay tax when I park my car:eek:

First of all I am an avid fisherman and Hunter, all monies collected should go directly to that organization and its supporters not to some beaurocrat ?sp, with nothing better to do than sit in a chair all day making decisions with " the people's money". When I go home to PA to hunt, even though I hunt on my families property, I pay for an out of state liscence, because I know that the money will go back into conservation for wildlife habitat and keeping hunting property open to the public, as well as protecting the resource. I know this because my dad was a farm game manager and Deputy Game Warden for 25 + years.

Since I have moved to MA I have heard talk about a saltwater fishing liscence for the past several years. I agree with you JohnR that the money and I mean all of the money should go back into the fisheries. NOT INTO SOMETHING ELSE!!!!! After all it is the angler who is paying the fee, not all American's!!!

I would like to know what the logic is in giving the money to something else, when we have lost access, have had declining, if not desimated fishing stocks, have to fight all the time about the fish,fowl and whatever the name of it ACT, just to be able to wet a line and it is supposed to be a LAW. Plus alot of research that could be done to maybe help the commercial/recreational fishermen work together to preserve this resource without fighting about who should get what.

In my opinion I would rather they make the Striped Bass a game fish than create a Saltwater Liscence that will do nothing to protect this great species and many others.

OK I have to stop now before I go Balisitic!!!!!!

I support a SW license with major conditions that I would expect would be laughed at... But I believe making the bass a gamefish is more of a coastal decision than a local one. Sure, they did it in Jersey but they still lose a ton of there fish to netters and such - not to mention all of the forage fish.... I don't see game fish status being too much of a salvation for the fish. That's something I've been on the fence about for a while. The Rhody bass rod & reel comms don't make as much of a dent in things like the Va/Mar/Potomac chaps or like the Mass guys do... I think 40 per day in Mass is excessive...

Anyway - Sandman, you're partially right, it's all about the money AND THE CONTROL of a resource. Not for the benefit of the resource but the benefit of control. If a SW License was able to generate say 150,000 anglers by $25-30 a head, you would have almost 4 million in revenue to drop back in to the system if it all went there. To be able to hire an additional 30 bodies (mostly enforcement officers & some staff) for 1 million per year would be a start. How many people rolling out of a Marine Bio program would be thrilled to make 35K a year in Environmental Management? Probably a fair amount of them. The reason why the Richard Dreyfuss in Jaws could afford to be a Marine Biologist was because his family was loaded - not because many jobs in that field pay well...

We are at a day & age where if the right plan was put forward, things could be manageable... The problem is that we are not at the right day & age to agree to do what needs to be done, instead we have a handfull of people without a clearly defined scope deciding things where they have little knowledge or care to know.

You better get it in more than writing, where the money is going to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


when they jump up the shellfish ones ,they said it was going back to our industry, not so it went into a general fund , with no accounting for monies spent/were it came from//////////////



WE live in RI need i say more.......................:eek:

Originally posted by clamdigger
You better get it in more than writing, where the money is going to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Won't help. There's nothing to stop gov from changing thier minds later anyway. You can't stop that from happening (it's happened before :( ).

Well I am for the SW fishing license. I wish the money would go to the fishery but i can almost Guarantee that the money will be going elsewhere even if they say its going towards the fishery. I guess the only good point about this whole SW fishing license is it might stop the crowding on the beaches. I would pay 500 bucks a year if it stops the kmart fishers. Lost a lot of good fish due to ignorant people. Its ok to learn but when they think they know what they are doing and won't listen to others tips its annoying. Also it might stop ignorant people from taking undersized fish. So it may help some after all less people fishing means less impact on the fishery = more fish for me!

I know i know sounds pretty selfish but when people see you catch a fish and they crowd right next to you casting over your line with a fish on littering and starting fights it gets me mad.

Anthony, if it weren't for the K-mart hacks, a lot of B&T's would run out of business... I feel (even though I hate it often) that everyone has a right to fish but they also have an obligation to learn what's right and what's wrong. That's the hard part...

One area where a SW License would help is to REQUIRE people to know what they can do and what they can't. If the money went back in to the program and more enforcement types were hired, you would see a reductiuon in the keeping of undersized fish.

As you become more intuned with your surroundings you realize that a little walk tends to stop the yahoos from following you. As you learn these new spots and work the nights, you'll see less and less people while the people you see will tend to be more competent... Although we'll still crowd ya when you got a nice fish on ;)

John:
Check your PM...sent you a PM.

After sending the PM when I clicked return to Home I was taken to an old home page(picture of Bruce and his canal bass)

Well - you guys are all about right! And I wish the RI folks the very best!!

I happen to live in a state (Florida) that has a recreational salt water fishing license and it is a good thing! I must confess, I was not happy with the idea at first but it has been handled very well!!

I am having a colleague over at the Div. of Marine Fisheries gather the data on specifically how the money collected is disbursed and I'll send you that info as soon as I get the auditors report.

However, there are a couple of things right off the top that contribute to success:
1) All monies collected go into a special trust find that is not available to the legislature nor can be rolled into the general fund.
2) The lions share of disbursements go toward law enforcement!!!!

Florida also has a tax on non-consumptive recreational gear like binoculars, kyaks, etc that likewise goes into a trust fund not available to the legislature or general fund. This money is then used strictly to purchase wetlands, watershed areas, river habitat and sportsmans improved access and security to these areas.

Maybe y'all have too many tax and spend left wing liberals in the area - ha ha ha --- Just having some fun based on posts from SOL.

Anyway - keep an open mind BUT-BUT-BUT raise the roof for special designation of the funds strictly back into fish stuff!!!

john

I would highly appreciate that John...

Things ain't lookin' good as my "source ;) " says that the Rhody Governmant wants to push this through hard... All we are looking at here is a pure grab for money & power. How does 125 smackers for an out-of-state SW license sound? There was talk of that.

I'm hoping to have some more details later this week but it looks like we'll need to battle here.

John,

Yikes!!!! 125 smackers!!! That does seem EXCESSIVE!!!
I'll try to attach a listing of the Florida hunting and fishing license fees. By the way, I've had some colleagues come down from Woods Hole and it was abreeze to get their licenses via eAngler.com
You might also go to eAngler.com for a review of other fees for the other states.

Later,
john H

The information below relates to recreational hunting and fishing only.
Freshwater Fishing | Hunting | Hunter Education Requirement
Lifetime Licenses | Saltwater Fishing
HUNTING
Resident Licenses
Sportsman's License (includes Hunting and Freshwater Fishing licenses; and Type I Wildlife Management Area, Archery, Muzzleloading Gun, Turkey and Florida Waterfowl permits) $67.50
Annual Hunting $12.50
5-Year Hunting (no permits included) $67.50
Annual Hunting/Freshwater Fishing Combination $23.50
Annual Hunting/Freshwater/Saltwater Fishing Combination $35.50
Senior Citizen Hunting and Fishing Certificate Free
Nonresident Licenses
Annual Hunting $151.50
10-Day Hunting $ 26.50
Permits (Resident and Nonresident)
Wildlife Management Area Permit $26.50
Archery Permit $ 5.00
Muzzleloading Gun Permit $ 5.00
Turkey Permit $ 5.00
Florida Waterfowl Permit $ 3.00
Collectors and sportsmen may obtain the pictorial Waterfowl Stamp and Turkey Stamp from any tax collector or subagent.
Back to Index


HUNTER EDUCATION REQUIREMENT
A person born on or after June 1, 1975 may not be issued a license to take or attempt to take wild animal life in this state with the use of a firearm, gun (including a muzzleloading gun), bow or crossbow without first having successfully completed a hunter safety course. A valid hunter safety certification card must be presented prior to issuing a license which includes a hunting privilege (excluding lifetime licenses) for anyone who meets the above requirement. Individuals exempted from purchasing a hunting license but born on or after June 1, 1975 are exempted from the hunter safety requirement. Lifetime license holders born on or after June 1, 1975 whose licenses do not indicate on the face of the licenses that a hunter safety course has been completed must have in their possession the hunter safety certification card while taking or attempting to take wild animal life.
For more information and class schedules, contact the nearest regional FWC office.

Panama City (850) 265-3676
Lake City (904) 758-0525
Ocala (352) 625-2804
Lakeland (863) 648-3200
West Palm Beach (561) 625-5126
Back to Index


FRESHWATER FISHING LICENSES
Resident
Annual $13.50
Annual Freshwater/Saltwater Fishing Combo $25.50
Annual Freshwater Fishing/Hunting Combo $23.50
Annual Freshwater/Saltwater Fishing/Hunting Combo $35.50
64 or Older Freshwater Fishing and Hunting (includes Freshwater Fishing and Hunting licenses; and Type I WMA, Archery, Muzzleloading Gun, Turkey, Florida Waterfowl permits) $13.50
Sportsman's License (includes Freshwater Fishing and Hunting licenses; and Type I WMA, Archery, Muzzleloading Gun, Turkey, Florida Waterfowl permits) $67.50
5-Year $61.50
Nonresident
7-Day $16.50
Annual $31.50
Back to Index



SALTWATER FISHING
Resident
Annual $ 13.50
5-year $ 61.50
Nonresident
Annual $ 31.50
Nonresident 3-Day $ 6.50
Nonresident 7-Day $ 16.50
Snook Permit $ 2.00
Crawfish Permit $ 2.00
Vessel - Small $ 201.50
Vessel - Medium $ 401.50
Vessel - Large $ 801.50
Vessel - Recreational $2,001.50
Saltwater Fishing Pier $ 501.50
Tarpon Tag $ 51.50

Back to Index

LIFETIME LICENSES(Sold only at Tax Collectors' offices)
Lifetime Sportsman's License (includes hunting, freshwater fishing and saltwater fishing licenses; and wildlife management area, archery, muzzleloading gun, turkey, Florida waterfowl, snook and crawfish permits)
4 years or younger $ 401.50
5-12 years $ 701.50
13 years and older $1,001.50

Lifetime Hunting License (includes hunting license; and wildlife management area, archery, muzzleloading gun, turkey, and Florida waterfowl permits)
4 years or younger $201.50
5-12 years $351.50
13 years or older $501.50

Lifetime Freshwater Fishing License
4 years or younger $126.50
5-12 years $226.50
13 years or older $301.50

Lifetime Saltwater Fishing License (includes snook and crawfish permits)
4 years or younger $126.50
5-12 years $226.50
13 years or older $301.50
For more information or for applications for Lifetime licenses contact your county tax collector's office or the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

I was thinking and hopefully the price isn't to steep. I sometimes take my brother in law, my wife, and some friends who don't fish regularly out fishing now and then. I don't think they would like to pay 125 bucks to go fishing a couple times a year and i don't want to shell out that amount out of my pocket for my wife. My wife is starting to get into it as well. But with my son its hard for her to get out as much fishing with me since hes only 8 months. And i can't justify buying her a SW license as well for about 15 days of fishing out of the season. So hopefully the price will be no more that 60 bucks.

Rhode Island Anglers better speak with one (loud) voice if this is to be stopped.

NY faced the same threat 10 years or so back.
George Scocca was central in stopping it cold.

Nobody objects to a reasonable registration fee, provided the funds go back into the fishery. But if it's just another tax, and a steep one at that, it will make outlaws out of the residents, and cause the non-residents to vacation elsewhere. Ultimately, it is the tackle shops that suffer, from loss of their customer base.

There's a lot to be said about "tradition".

Flounder

There is a good article on this topic at...

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=2592923&BRD=1710&PAG=461&dept_id=99784&rfi=8

This is a quote from that article...

When the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries made its second attempt to license our saltwater fishermen I was one of the most active and vocal opponents to their proposal. I have witnessed, first hand, what the Florida saltwater license has done to the small tackle shop and livery operators along with their support restaurant and supply industry in that state

I agree with most of the article but he author doesn't elaborate on what became of bait and tackle shops. Perhaps John W. can explain the impact (if any) on Florida B&T shops.

It is demostrable fact that you can lobby all you want for the funds to go back to fishing related expenditures but a new legislature is voted in every two years and it can all change overnight in a double secret backroom legislative session (and it will).

I remember when a resident freshwater Mass license used to cost $12. Now it is $27 and the fishing hasn't improved that much to justify it.

The recreational fishermen don't need another burden placed on them. Keep it simple. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

First off , I'm for the license if it goes back to the sport. Secondly , In New England , a higher fee for out of states is rediculous. How are you suppose to know exactly where state lines are if you are on a boat. Do the lines run like lines of lattitude and longitude. If you are a little east of Fisher's Island are you in RI , CT , or NY?? Where is the line beteen between BI and Montauk. I live 400 yards from the Mass boarder. That means I'd have to buy the license in at least two states.

Money grab!!! I hope the politicians know that people will vote based on who supports what.

Saltheart, that's just as good of an argument for having the same regs coastwide ;) - fishing in the triborder area there...

Anthony - an arguement like that is precisely what the government needs to hear. But they also need to hear how much you won't buy in bait & tackle because it won't be worth it for your out of state relatives to come and fish Rhode Island anymore. That instead, you're gonna need to take your Mass relatives fishing in Mass instead...

Flatts - Good article, I don't know if Charley is anti-license period or anti-license if the money doesn't go back into SW fishing... As far as If it ain't broke, don't fix it. - Part of the problem is that it is seriously broken. The state has absolutely no clue as to how much revenue is generated by how many anglers keeping how many fish or releasing how many fish per season or how many anglers are keeping illegal fish or how many anglers are not knowingly harming fish. There are many good reasons to have a reasonable SW license provided the money goes back. If it ends up purely as a major grab for cash - that will have far reaching effects for the tourism industry and the local B&Ts. Me, I'll have more open beach to myself but that would be pretty selfish :rolleyes: ;) :D

Flatts,

Not sure about the death of tackle shops in Florida. It seesm to me that the opposite is happening. Many of the former little dingy bait and tackle shops are flourishing and expanding into the beer, sandwiches, even small restaurant add on. And, with the increase and improvement in recreational salt water fishing many of the access areas near the bait and tackle shops are likewise experiencing growth in many different ways -SO --- I'm not seeing what the article seemed to say???

With the slightly different mindest of Floridians -v- New Englanders ;) , I doubt we'll actually see the laws change to allow B&Ts to sell Beer & Wine. Talk of liquor store drive thrus were quickly squashed when they came around.

I am worried that the family on vacation (whether out of state or a resident) would not rent a rod and fish if it needed to pay 25 bucks per head for a weekly license on top of renting and clams or worms or whatever...

I am worried that area tackle shops that get high out of state traffic would really suffer. Shops like Weekapaug that get a high percentage of visitors from MA, CT & NY. I really can't see them asking if you want to supersize your fries with those eels too :rolleyes: . Remember, some shops in that area have already closed doors - like Covedge near Watch Hill...

But what also worries me is that this money wouldn't go back into fishing but to be used for something entirely unrelated, like a legal defense fund or anything not relavent to the source of the money.

We've always had the right to go down to the water and wet a line. Now becuase of all the problems these days with the fisheries and everyone wetting a line, the ONLY reason I could conceivably support a SW license would be if the funds went directly back into fighting a lot of the existing problems we face on the water today...