I got to thinking about this the other day and wanted to see what everybody here thinks....

What make one angler better than another? Is it that they are more attentive to detail, more driven, more in tune with what is going on with tide, current and pattern or did they have a mentor that taught them all they know or is it just "luck"?

We all realize that with the advent of web sites, there is a vast pool of information available at our finger tips, people are almost completely eliminating the learning curve....most with limited time in actually putting the techniques to work on the water.

I have seen this many times as I am sure many here have as well. There are two (or more guys) who always fish with each other but one always seems to do better than the other(s). "They" also seem to always know when to change up or switch to something else just at the right time. This can be said of charter captains as well, many will catch their fill but the few will always excel with consistently catching larger fish year in and year out.

Why is that the few are always ahead of the rest?

Rock Hopper

They have the knack :)

their line is wet...

the length, girth, and firmness of one's rod.

Dwende, 6th sense, people that go beyond the shortened and flattened learning curve of the Internet... People that put time in with their mind open and sharp.

I am not one of them but I have fished with a few of them (there are but a handfull) and I can recognize it in them and can recognize that I don't have it yet...

Good question

Yes John, I would have to agree with you to a degree but there are those that put the time in, read voraciously, pick the brains of the successful "ones" but still come up short...

I mean we have all been there I am sure, two or more guys, equal skills, equal equipment, same place, ususally same plug....one guy consistently does better.... WHY?

Slip, you may have a point.

Beachwalker, so are a lot of others but without the tighness :D

iluvspots, gotta say, love your answer but that applies to another form of success :D

Rock Hopper

I would say that patience, while it may not make the fisherman, will definitely make them a better fisherman.
Patience... to listen to and learn from others mistakes.
Patience... to learn for yourself. Take the time to do things on your own, and learn from your experiences.
Patience... to offer assistance to others and accept their response when they say "no thanks".
Patience... to enjoy the moment, let others have their "moments" to themselves. Not everyone reacts the same way, or sees things as you do.

Most important (for me at least) is the patience to have fun.
There is a saying that goes "The more complex the mind, the simpler fun needs to be!"

there are 2 things that seem to always make the difference where I fish. The first is knowing the window of oppurtunity when the large fish will be in the area. You have to play the game of probability, and sometimes fish at times where its not most enjoyable to you. I constantly try to target that window of oppurtunity in each spot whether it by 15 minutes or 3 hours. Many times too this window of opportunity is only valid on a certain wind, time of year, tide and moon phase. To be successful you have to be out there on those producing tides all the time, even if they are horribly inconvinient for your sleep schedule.

The second is the use of eels or other live bait. It did not take me long to learn that youre gonna get outfished for quality if you dont use eels from the surf. Eels are worth their weight in gold while fishing the surf, and a lot of guys fail to realize how important this is. Its youre responsibility to always have a supply on hand. Many are lazy and figure, plugs will do, I'll be happy enough catching a low 20 pound fish, no need to spend the money and effort on eels. Their attitude changes when the guy next to them catches many nice fish and weeds out a 40#+ fish. Plugs do catch their share of large fish, but if youre playing the game of probability, live bait consistantly produces much better.

In addition to these 2 factors you have to be the driving force behind yourself. You have to be aware off all the conditions and details that will affect your fishing, constantly making mental note and looking for patterns. Fishing is never mindless for me,I'm constantly thinkin of all the variables and planning what to do next. Its a full time job in being successful from the surf constantly monitoring the weather and other factors.

FT,

Yes, patience is a big part of the success. In today's instant gratification mode, a lot of folks lack that and quickly get frustrated.

I for one, have been on both side of the coin. When I am in the "zone" I can hone in and feel everything, almost think like a fish as far what I would want to target and go after. In tose times, I was almost always successful.

Maybe it's a mind set.....maybe that is what seperates everyone.

RH

rizzo,

I couldn't agree with you more on the live and the thinking aspect. Like you, I am always thinking too. What are they on? How does it swim, what does it look like in distress, it's size, how does the moving water affect its motion etc...

Eels, slow is the gospel but depth is the key....do you come back from the bottom (where most large stay and where most eels will move around) or mid-water for the likely opportunity or is it just off the top....the time of day/night changes this scenerio as well as the tide stages, moon phases and current in a given area.

Thinking is key but again, I come full circle to mind set....does thinking successfully, breed success and do the successful ones always know they will be successful?

RH

i know i will have achieved greatness when the back of my truck smells just like Alberto's. :yak:

ils,
You funny....
:laughs: :laughs:

That's not greatness, that just plain "Crazy":D

RH

Rock,
re:"two or more guys, equal skills, equal equipment, same place, ususally same plug....one guy consistently does better.... WHY?"

becuse the skill is not equal. One has it the other doesn't. Just because two guys tie the same knots doesn't mean their skills are equal. Remember the old saw, 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.

I think (unfortunetly for me) its the details, and observation that will make/break someone... Paying attention to conditions and presenting a bait/lure so it looks "natural" is part of this whole thing... think like a fish, and put your time in... someday I'll get there with bass...

they have the rosetta stone to crack the "code" :laugha:

Sorry I had to say it..

Originally posted by rizzo

Many are lazy and figure, plugs will do, I'll be happy enough catching a low 20 pound fish, no need to spend the money and effort on eels.

Remember, some rarely use eels not out of lazyness, but out of enviromental awareness.

MM,

Assuming they both know what they are doing, proper retrieve (speed, depth), presentation etc. one catches where the other does not. I agree with the 10/90 rule if you will, but that again begs the question. Are they just more talented or do they almost will it? Is it confidence combined with knowledge?

There was a time when I was the most successful amongst the group of friends I fished with regularly, but after moving and such, I developed a whole new set of friends to fish with. In this new group, there were a bunch of very, very good fisherman (more so than the first group) who I knew as much as and we all had the same gear so there was no dis-advantage.

The difference was amongst this new group I was no longer the most successful consistently. My skills did not change so what was it?

RH

Originally posted by Rock Hopper
The difference was amongst this new group I was no longer the most successful consistently. My skills did not change so what was it?

RH

Time...... They fished more than you.

Eben,

As much as I am aware that the American Eel pop. is in decline based on the studies, they are extremely productive (I know I don't have to tell you this... ;) ).

I use eels (and throw plugs) but my favorite way to use eels is rigged or on a skin jig. When I get eels, I tend to cherry pick them (for the bigger ones) so when they die (if I don't lose them on a cast or to a blue), I can recycle them for either the rigged or the skin.

I tend to always have eels with me in some manner because when they don't want plugs, they will almost always take the eel.

RH

i call it the force...
you can tell right away. even before they start catching fish. hard to explain.

Some people just "have it". Its innate and undefinable, it is what makes great fishermen.
Fishing hard, being intellectual, proper gear, etc. is what makes you a good fisherman, and thats takes alot of work in its own.

Kadir is turning into an old fart. Not quite grumpy, but very farty.

That's what happens when you're too busy workin burnin' the candle at both ends.

When ya gonna fish man?

"Oh, I'm too tired to pack up the truck." :bshake: :bshake:

p.s. After I renew my 4x4 permit @ Robert Moses, I'm coming over to harass you into a trip out to Demo.

indepth local knowlage of the area there fishing. And a good network of dedicated fishermen to share information with. Big Dave

There are a lot of guys out there who have been fishing for many years and have never caught a quality fish from the surf. Some have put in a lot of time and still havnt been successful. On the other hand theres younger guys 20-30 year olds who have caught many 40s from the surf... Some catch on quick and can see the importance of certain strategies, others never seem to get it. Each person is unique, but it doesnt take long to tell if someone "has it" or "has the potential to have it" just by talking to them/fishing with them.

Wetting line

For those that have their "hot spots", think about what it feels like when YOU are in "th zone". Foe me, it's fishing the east end during the start of the flood tide, an learning how to differentiate between the Sluggo/jig bouncing on the bottom, and the VERY subtle pickup by the bass. It took some time before I realized why I was missing the strikes. Once I corrected for that, I was slaying them. I may not have gotten a keeper every time, but I was regularly pulling fish from that area.
Like virtually everything worth while in life, if you put your time in, you WILL seem like an expert to someone less experienced.
Heck, I've been approached a number of times by fellow fishermen wanting to know what my secret was. My answer: No secret, just keep trying.

Christian, Krispy, rizzo,

You guys are right on! You know, when you see it..hard toexplain what 'it' is but you know it. The question then is what the hell is "it".

BD,

You too are rigt but the ones that "have it" can make "it" work anywhere. That's what seperates them.

ILS,

LOL, you are so right pal. I welcome it, get your pass and let's get out there for a tide or three
:D

Kadir

I think some of you guys are missing the point of what a great fisherman is.
Its more than just someone who puts their time in or knows how to fish a some spots really well. Or enjoys the full spectrum of the sport and gives alot to the fishing community. Thats nice..
You have to catch ALOT OF LARGE FISH for a LONG TIME to be considered great.

luck plays a major part but there are somethings you can do to up your odds of catching big bass like ,putting your time in,not quiting not matter what,being observant, knowing the habits and biology of your prey,fishing at night,ruling out unproductive areas, and keeping on the move

Krispy, Canal Rat,

Great points by both. There are other elements/factors/aspects that make some better than others, we have gotten a general concencus that time put in, patience, attention to detail, learning, overal knowledge are all part of the successful ones MO but there a few more that I can think of..... what are they?

Kadir

Being versital,, but above all I think you have to have will and the ability to learn from your mistakes.

SOOO TRUE!

I always get mixed feelings from these types of threads.... one part says one part of me thinks, its only fishing - its not some high art form and we shoudnt over analyze. Another side of me thinks there is more to the spiritual side, being in touch with nature.

I grew up in a fishing family so my viewpoint is biased. I remember cutting open the bellies of bass when I was 8yrs old to see what they were feeding on. Fsihing is like eating, its something we've always done. I think my dad is a great fisherman, he has a number of trophy bass under his belt and knows the water. He's consistent
I don't consider myself a great or even good fisherman, its something I do and don't care to compare myself to others. I know one thing. 80% of my life, I feel out of place and not quite right, I've felt like thsi since I was a kid. As soon as I am in the water, I feel at home, everything feels right , my purpose is clear and my focus is on the fish. Everyting is aligned.
I'd also would say that most "great" fsiherman get skunked a lot, becasue they fish alot. History only rememebrs the catches.

Personally I think that nowledge takes a big part in someone's ability to catch fish consistently. Given the time, we can all master are waters and the lures or baits we use. That's why my favorite lure mite catch fish for me, but mite be the worst lure in your tackle box. I belive that fish aren't as hard to catch as its portraid to be, but then again luck does enter into the game when it comes to big fish tho, but for those how can do it consistently its a skill. Thats why I teach the kids at the fishing academy that a true throphy fish is your personal best. To be good at fishing or anything for that matter you have to just do it. Confidence plays a big part in fishing and being open to change. I have showed many people tricks on the beach and have watched them up there catch within minutes. So it is something that can be thaught, but knowing when to impose them is the hard part.

Sorry I got a little carried away it won't happen again

i have been fishing since i was born and when i hold a rod in my hands if feels so natural like a extension of my body like i was ment to do this and have done it million times before.sometimes i get this feeling about a particular spot i go there and catch fish. this has happend when i got into a massive bass blitz also.
also i have dreams about a spot or a plug and plug color and i catch fish at that spot the next time im there

to me what separates the good from the great,is for good fishing is part of their lives, for the great fishing is their life,. it is much more than just fishing a lot for one species of fish.the truly great fisherman is in tune with thier envoirnment, they put their time in chasing bait,they know how fish relate to the bottom. often times fish will gather in a spot no bigger than a garbage can if you aren't putting your offering in the right spot you twitch everyway under the sun and still not catch even if you are bumping shoulders with your buudy catching fish after fish. i don't think that catching large makes you any better than the next guy, you might have the opportuntiy to fish were large fish congregate. guys with some knowledge ,and the time to follow the large are going to put more large than a guy who can only fish a certain area.

to me its a guy who is in the suds at least 4 nights a week, can adapt and react to every situation the surf may throw at them, they know spots that will hold fish at certain times of the year most of which are depended on tide wind and bait, they know how to fish a certain plug in any given area the correct way, I could go on and on, but its really all about putting your time in and having good gear to fish with...

Hunger. Hungry enough to forego sleep, family and comfort. Hungry enough that you are constantly thinking about it. Hunger that drives you each night to make one more cast, drive farther than most and walk around that next bend on the beach. Hunger that makes you analyze each and every facet of of the fishes world, the bait, the weather, the moon, the tide and how it all relates to what you experienced. Hunger that drives you to read everything you can find on the subject and drives you to seek out those that are consistently successful and ask thier counsel. It's an insatiable quest, a spirit journey to master the art of Striped Bass fishng.:)

Great question Kadir, no doubt one that has been debated many times. Yes luck plays a small role in this equation because I believe that I have had my share of it and I agree with many of the answers posted but I still feel it is more. I chuckle at the thought that I go out to relax and enjoy myself. I enjoy fishing but there is a lot of thought and preparation involved. We would be fooling ourselves not to believe that this is a thinking mans sport, knowing how to read the water and what makes it productive, find structure and understand how to use (fish) it. What bait, plugs, tackle or gear to use under various conditions. Understanding the tides, wind, phases of the moon, weather conditions and time of year. The speed of our retreive, the depth we fish our bait or plugs. Knowing and understanding these things is what gives us that confidence. But sometimes it takes more, we have to let the fish tell us what they want. If we know the water is productive and the fish are there, yet we can't generate a strike know when to change it up. Vary the presentation, then change plugs or jig etc. and go through the formalities again. The fish will tell you what they want and how they want it,thus the learning continues. We need to understand how to make each cast productive and fish with a purpose with a limited number of casts and not just continue casting thinking maybe on the next cast I'll hook up. We also need to spend a couple of moments each time out and observe the environment and condtions around us, ask ourselves what worked and what didn't, then ask why. Make a mental note or better yet keep a log. Guarenteed over time this will make you a better fisherman. Yes we can learn some of this through our fishing forums and having a fishing buddy that's a sharpy certainly helps but for most of us it's putting in the time and paying our dues. Just remember to take away something you learned every time you go.
;)

No doubt hunger/drive is huge, knowledge is key, time put is important and confidence breeds success or vise versa.

The real question then is, what do we really measure "the great ones" by? Knowledge? Drive? Time? Success?

Plus, is it a case of longevity, reputation or pure dominance on their part in their ability to be successful?

They have put in their time, they are driven, they have the knowledge and have been successful for the most part.

Some are record holders, some are not. Some have caught large and some have not but what is it that makes them better than most in most peoples minds?

Is it fact, fiction or perception? Is it myth or lore and how do we really know which? Is it in our minds?

Interesting questions I think. Many people are very knowledgable and many people fish A LOT and catch quite a lot but are not seen as "great". What's the seperation?

Thanks INS!! :)

Kadir

i think it takes an obsessive compulsive disorder and a trust fund :hihi:

[i]\

Interesting questions I think. Many people are very knowledgable and many people fish A LOT and catch quite a lot but are not seen as "great". What's the seperation? [/B]

The age old struggle between the "lucky" and the "good", something I still can't explain.

I like the old saying "Luck is simply oppurtunity meeting preperation" The best seem to be always prepared, have a game plan, good equipment and the knowledge to enact it all properly..
I had an argument with a non-fishing friend (they do exist) about luck and fishing... I agreed that sometimes it is luck that causes you to drag that plug/bait in front of a lifetime fish, but if you put yourself in the right places, your "luck" increases, and if you hook it you better have the skill, gear and knowledge to land it... thats where luck ends and skill takes over..

Being able to do it consitently in ALL conditions is key as well

In certain cases longevity/experience help... I'm an average bass fisherman, but consider myself well above average when it comes to catching blackfish, especially big ones in the late fall, it's been in my blood for generations, soemthing passed down from my grandfather to my father to me.. and as good as I know I am, and even though the last few years I've taken the bigger fish between my father and I, most days the two of us fish togethor I get out fished, sometimes 2:1 or 3:1, he has "it" when it comes to catching 'chins... what "IT" is... I dunno, but he has it...

Then again in my case.. if I didnt have Bad luck... I'd have no luck at all :rolleyes: :D

RIRockHound, You are right aboout what you say, and some do have 'it" and that "it" is what seperates us.

I think that "it" is knowledge and passion for what they do. They don't do it just to do it...they do it with passion and are confident in their ability and are keen in their knowledge.

Not to sound too over the top but they almost have become one with their environment and their target. They always seem to be two steps ahead because they know what is going on in the other world.

Kadir

The superior fishermen constantly assesses current/learned information and integrates that knowledge with previous knowledge and can adapt to the constantly changing situation he is faced with.
Secondly experience time on the water yields a great deal to becoming "great" at fishing. Recognizing patterns and situations lends itself to greater numbers of fish caught.
Thirdly not being afraid to experiment and fail helps become solvent in the suds or on a boat. Experimentation yields itself to evolution = productive fishing.

BTW- I am NOT a master, great, or even decent fisherman but I strive to better myself each time out.

Originally posted by Slipknot
They have the knack :)
thanks

:D :D :D :D

your welcome:ss: :soon:

cant wait

Examining anglers that excel, the fist thing I notice is that excellent anglers fish a lot. They dont seem to accept things as they come. They constantly yearn to fish smarter, not harder.

you cant win if you dont play

Practicing thier skill on the water :smash: Man am I rusty :eek:

Having 3 sets of clothes in the truck so you can take lots of different pictures of the same fish and put them on the internet.

:cool:


Seriously though, - :huh:

Due to the fact that we cannot predict the size of the fish.. nor the size of the school that are holding up at one of our favorite spots on a given day (except for time of year)...a lot of what makes a great fisherman...........is LUCK :D, yeah...I'll say it first.

How do you increase your odds/luck/greatness?, you fish more than the average Joe, like a great fishermen does. The more time you put in, the more you learn, adapt, and CATCH. A great fisherman has more fishless days than you do, but at the same time...has 4X as many fish-filled days than you do, WHY ?... time spent on the water. As stated above, 2 avid fishermen can share the same hole with the same plug using very similar retrieves, what decides who catches the biggest fish??

To me, it's consistency, not size that determines a great fisherman. Someone who can adapt to what's available EVEN when large are not present. Someone who can make a popper swim because the opportunity is at hand and there's no time to switch plugs. Someone who knows where to place the lure when a fish surfaces on a crisp early morning...again, time on the water along with some luck will take you a long way. I could bore you with more details but I'm sure many don't agree....just wanted to share my .02, ...It's been awhile -

I fully agree Bloo...time =fish.

Originally posted by bloocrab
Having 3 sets of clothes in the truck so you can take lots of different pictures of the same fish and put them on the internet.

Gosh dangit, Bloo, now ya figured me out. :wall:

From the master...
http://www.finefishing.com/1saltfish/stripedbass/strictlystripers.htm