on the cover of the fisherman mag. it says the m.s.b.a. fishing expo is in kingston ri. :peessed: the worst part is they are going to have a booth there

You are joking right? :smash:

:rotfl: I live in Kingston RI :hihi:

I noticed that too. Didn't they have the wrong dates last week.

Yeah...Gawd forbid they read the other 2 ads we placed in there for the show and figure hey....whats wrong with this picture! The error was all theirs! :tm: I wonder if they will be going to Kingston RI?

I tryed to carry the fisherman mag in the shop a few years ago. out of 5 weeks I got the Mag on the first week. The only reason I got that one was they droped it off when they signed my shop up to carry them. Never got the other weeks.
They sure knew where to send the F**in bill. :nailem:

I ran advertising with them last year for my cod charter trips. It took them over 6 weeks for them to correct the spelling of Stellwagon to Stellwagen. Also some weeks the ad never even appeared, and then just reappeared?? But like previously mentioned the bill always came in on time. :smash:

You guys may not know it, but the Print edition of Nor'east Saltwater is expanding into RI. If you are interested in either carrying the magazine or advertising in it e-mail Nick@noreast.com. BTW the magazine is free, but you have to pick it up in the local tackle shops that carry it. You will be able to get the march and April editions (it doesn't go weekly until May) at the RISAA show. I'll be working the booth on Sat. & Sun. so if you come by be sure to say hello.

After 25 years of getting the New England Fisherman, I let my subscription expire. I really feel the quality of the articles and the information just wasn't the same after Coleman left.

After 25 years of getting the New England Fisherman, I let my subscription expire. I really feel the quality of the articles and the information just wasn't the same after Coleman left.


EXACTLY, it also seems to have become cover to cover advertising.

I stopped getting it years ago....

In the past I only read The Fisherman at the barber shop or at MSBA meetings at the "magazine table" that George P. has self-maintained for a while now.

Recently though, I started buying it at the news stand and I find it quite informative. A couple examples that I found useful were...

- The article on cheaply but effectively covering my boat using 4'' PVC as the frame along with a tarp and sections of rope to serve as "ribbing".

- The article on Monomoy that described why it is a good place to go when the temp kicks up everywhere else.

Again, I don't have much of a historical reference to compare it with but I do find it useful and one of these days I'm going to finally write the check for a subscription rather than pay the newsstand prices.

With regard to Ads, they all do it. Turn to nearly any given page of OTW and you will find that 2/3 of it is Ads too - just on bigger paper :huh:


Mike

The editor, Zach, he's got next to no help....Putting out a weekly on your own is not easy.....They're still paying only a $100 for a feature....
All that ad revenue too

I've been getting the Fisherman and On the water for 10 years now, and I saved the old ones ( I just read a Joe Lyons article on "Road Kill flies" ), I'm not renewing either this year, both are all ad's and rehashed articles.
I've come to learn that fishing catches fish, reading about others fishing doesn't.

Screwing up Kingston, RI for Kingston, MA on the cover is huge! I hope they give you free advertisement for the show next year, or give a full page to MSBA, in upcoming issues.

I think that people are learning more & more about fishing different locations,technique's,habits and most of all meeting other people who have the same Crazy addiction from forums like this one vs a cover to cover advertising mag.

Hi my name is Bob & I have a fishing problem :rotf3:

"Tying The Roady Roadkill" :biglaugh:
I liked that one....but they got a few letters from people who thought it was serious

Guys, Neal Larsson from OTW checking in. I just wanted to address a couple misconceptions going on with regards to On The Water... first is that the magazine is all "advertising". I really would like you guys to check out an issue of the magazine and take a hard look... Let me explain...

You will find more feature articles (usually 10-14) and columns (10 going to over 20 from April to October with the Insiders) in OTW than any other National or Regional fishing magazine and the beauty of it is that we are all fishing for the same species some just about every article can be applied to wherever you live in the region. That's not the case with "rooster fish", "bonefish", and "arctic grayling" that the national magazines write up while throwing you a striper bone once in a while. Most national pubs give you 5 or 6 real features and 5 or 6 columns and they stack their advertising to give you the illusion there's some meat there. We chose not to try and fool our readers with a "continued on pg. 98" format and let you read the articles from beginning to end. Unfortunately some of you are left with the impression that it's all advertising.

As for the advertising... The reality is that it pays the bills, but neither Chris Megan as Publisher, Gene Bourque the Editor nor myself as GM will be buying a waterfront home or 45' Cabo anytime soon. We publish this magazine because, like all of you on this message board we have a passion for fishing and enjoy sharing that with our readers. We consider the magazine's true owners the readers of the publication. The direction of the magazine is formulated by feedback we receive from our readers at Sportsman shows, emails; message boards like yours as well as out on the beach or on the docks.

As for the Fisherman, there's room for the 2 formats, of course I like our quality and format better, you guys ultimately can be the judge on that... But mistakes happen and we're all human. Zach, I Can say is a great guy that works hard and my hat's off to him for putting that magazine out 50 weeks a year with little support from the home office in NY.

As for OTW, keep in mind if we don’t know there’s a problem we can’t fix it, any direct input to us here at the magazine, again, is appreciated and always welcome. Step to the plate and drop us an email or give us a call if you have any issues. Thanks!

Sincerely,

Neal Larsson
800/614-3000
neal@onthewater.com

Here is a problem - only Gene Bourque and Elvis Flaptail are allowed to :spam: on S-B or to abduct writers :splat:


Just kidding Neal - welcome to S-B. While I agree with The Fisherman taking a down turn after Tim left it has gotten a bit better since Zach took over the reigns. But OTW is still the cat's ass for a monthly in these waters...

Keep up the good work.

I agree, On The Water is the only mag worth reading. The TV show is pretty good too.

While I agree with The Fisherman taking a down turn after Tim left it has gotten a bit better since Zach took over the reigns. But OTW is still the cat's ass for a monthly in these waters...

I totally agree. I don't mind the advertisements, as I know it helps keep the price of the magazine in check. I am not thrilled with seeing the same article over and over again. Although they are not exactly the same I have noticed that one writer will write 5 or 6 different articles, and use things back and forth between them. Keep up the good work.

Neal,

I agree completely that your mag has more reading material (atricles/columns) than most or all of the competition. And OTW, in my opinion, is the best regional fishing mag there is for the inshore and offshore fisheries in new england. I also want to compliment you on a format option. I absolutely love that your articles are complete...and not (continued on page 98).

Where I think the complaints lie or at least my complaints lie in terms of advertising is the sheer volume an distribution of the advertising. I really doubt I could balence the volume and distribution any better, but I do find it distracting and takes away from the overall enjoyment of the magazine.

the other complaint I want to echo is the "rehashing of info" I do agree that I get a sense of De ja vue often reading OTW. I am part way through an article, and I start thinking I have already read it before, seems like a re-use of information. Who knows maybe I read the info here, which became the inspiration for the article.

Keep up the good work. I do like the magazine and will be renewing my subscription. But I do encourage some changes in advertising.

-IWK

"Elvis Flaptail" I will have you know John that I am going for a new look this year. Kinda Johnny Damon meets Johnny Rotten meets Marilyn Manson meets James Bond. Kinda a grand slam, spit in yer face, shock value but shaken not stirred thing, you know. :smokin:

Well, guys to back up what Joe said, Zach is always buried, I have been writing for them for a few years now and I fell confident in predicting a nervous breakdown or a heart attack for Zach before his 35th. I know he's really trying hard to put out a good publication each week, but think about what putting out 50 issues in a year takes... that's 5 - 12 articles per week, I have noticed that all of the magazines are getting a little stagnent.... I dunno... :huh:

-DAve

I miss TC at the helm of the fisherman (NE), his bass and other fishing articles were great. But I still enjoy getting THE FISHERMAN weekly and will continue to read it cover to cover. When I see it amongst the catalogs and daily bills, it brings a smile to my face and is the first thing I like to flip through. My biggest gripe with the fisherman is the lack of any way to research past articles from years back. Here is a service I would pay for but can’t get. Some of that stuff was priceless and great info.

OTW is clearly a big step up in that it targets our backyard and provides some hard-core details from guys in the know. I think I most enjoy the area-by-area coverage in the summer months from folks who live and fish there. (Cape, MV, ACK, Eliz Island, ect) . I also like almost all the regular features about fishing. While I also like hearing about individuals who have done great things in fishing, I am not one for hero worship. I think these if done too often tend to put certain guys on a pedestal and it can get a little over done. But those are still fun to get some insight into their character. Lastly the plug building articles are a good winter theme. The cooking (recipes, we have tried a bunch and some are damn good!), trouble shooting tips, and plug of the month features are both fun and interesting to read.

As far as Ads, I like them. Between the fisherman and OTW I have the "yellow pages" of boating and fishing in my truck, office and bathroom at all times :bl: . I almost always have a copy of OTW when I go back and forth on the ferry. I can't tell you how many other fisherman strike up a conversation when they see with that under your arm...."You fish the island?" is generally how it starts and I have gotten some pretty good tips from tourists on the way home who hit big the night before and gave me the dump on where when and how…. all from a magazine under my arm.

Lastly, the TV show you guys are doing is first rate. Yes, too many TV ads there too but it drove me to buy a TIVO so now I never miss a show and skip thru the ads within a few seconds. I imagine the cost to compile a TV show is pretty substantial.

(slightly OT :devil2: ) The only time I got upset with both magazines is when a so called "rec" fisherman "who has no comm interests whatsoever..."(yeahright), uses it as their own personal soap-box to lecture all of us other rec sb fisherman on how we should feel towards comm sb fishing. Enough already, give it a rest.

Considering fuel looks to go well over $3/gal at the dock this year, the cost of the both papers is well worth it. (just don't raise the rate again next year :bl: )

Perhaps this may seem odd, but after I read all the articles in OTW, I go back and read all the ads until I have literally read the mag cover to cover. I am an info-hound and simply cannot get enough of it. Even if some of the articles are recycled info, it cannot hurt to be reminded of how something works or have a proven method re-inforced.

I renew my subscription every year at the MSBA show and will absolutely be doing so again this Sunday. :jump1:

spinn

I want the Sales Job.
The only problem that I have with OTW is that I can't put it down. Then it is gone and I am waiting a whole month for the next one.

the other problem with this weeks fisherman (other than getting the state wrong) is it says m.s.b.a. sport & fishing show.makes it sound like mabey i can get a new tennis racquet along with a couple of new plugs :huh: our ad reads sportfishing show , i think that sums it up.as far as otw i recieve both and i think they are great reads lets face though its got to be tough writting fresh articles about fishing 12 months a year . my only problem is both are sporatic in there mailing .

BO,
Re:"my only problem is both are sporatic in there mailing .

Then you're gonna love Noreast, its not mailed you just pick it up when you visit your local tackle shop!

"Elvis Flaptail" I will have you know John that I am going for a new look this year. Kinda Johnny Damon meets Johnny Rotten meets Marilyn Manson meets James Bond. Kinda a grand slam, spit in yer face, shock value but shaken not stirred thing, you know. :smokin:

Flappunktail ;)
Had a kid in the store almost as tall as you last night, except went maybe 150 pounds soakin wet, tight black jeans, leather jacket with more studs in it then ya can count, pointed toe leather boots, and sporting a tall mohawk with the hair dyed bleach blonde and the tips done up in black, brown roots ta boot, gelled and blow dryed to look like a bunch of feathers blowing around... theres a look for ya Flap :jump1:

oh and by the way OTW hands down, read the new england fishermen at the barber shop, but get my OTW in the mail... earlier than most, Thank You for that!... and OTW is by far the better ink.

Zach Harvey, here:
Just wanted to weigh in quickly on a few things that seem to be going on.
The first, obviously, is the callout on the cover of this week's issue. Due to miscommunication, the actual name of the show somehow got listed as "Sport & Fishing Expo." Our publisher, in the eleventh hour, added "Kingston," feeling--rightly so--that the addition of the location would help attendence. The intentions were good, but the finished product suffered. I was as surprised as any of you were. I'm scrambling to put together some basketballs and tennis rackets, but time is short.
Which brings up a second point: Due to our production process, it's not always possible to catch errors until it's too late. Putting out 50 issues a year, our entire staff is under intense and constant deadline pressure. Mistakes happen, and some--like this one--are worse than others. Last fall, we listed the Norwalk Show as running through the 36th of September, and I'm hoping no one went there on the 34th.
No magazine goes to press without tremendous effort, but monthlies do have the advantage of time. Issues can be proofed multiple times, and errors can be fixed. With weeklies, time is always short, with the next deadline always coming up in 4 days.
Rehash also seems to be a concern for a few of you. Consider: in an average year, we run somewhere in the vicinity of 300 feature articles a year. I personally read over 500 articles a year, and try to select the best line-up, weighing the diversity of fishing opportunities our fishiest of New England waters. What's a year's fishing without trolling the Block Island ledges, flounder fishing in Boston Harbor, or cod fishing at Jeffreys Ledge? There are very specific local areas with unique fishing situations, but I'd be neglecting my post if I omitted major fisheries and locations just because they were discussed in previous years. I hate to say it, but there are no new fisheries and no new spots, just new ways of approaching the old ones.
On the balance, we're giving you somewhere between five and twelve current, local (barring a handful of winter travel pieces) articles PER WEEK, and that's nearly three times more than you'll get anywhere else. In the course of a year. In the coming season, we've got a terrific line-up, and here's hoping you'll agree.
If anyone has ideas or comments that he'd like to bring to light, shoot me an e-mail at fishpaper@aol.com.

Zach Harvey

Zach nicely said You got your hands full over there and its not easy to Put a weekly magazine together every week,Ive been advertising with you people for the last 13 years when tim was editor I have nothing but good to say about you and the job your doing As far as what people say about rehashing the same stories This is new england not florida or the galapagos or whatever Lets face it we don't have the variety of species of other parts of the country But what we do have is the best striped bass fishing in the world And the magazine covers every way to catch them in an informative easy to read style every week thanks And people do make mistakes nobody is perfect

Good to see folks come to the defense of their respective mags. I do enjoy both magazines. My feeling is if the frequency and the enormity of erros is increasing in any production, then it is time to step back and take a look at the processes. When quantity is more important than quality, no one wins. Just my opinion of course but why not go bi-weekly? Articles would be fresher and accuracy would improve. I am not in the business so this may not be a practical solution.

spinn

Zach,
Just curious, are you still paying $100 for a feature article or has the rate gone up?

Rates have gone up. I'd prefer to pursue that discussion through a different venue (see above, or call the office)

Z

Good to see folks come to the defense of their respective mags. I do enjoy both magazines. My feeling is if the frequency and the enormity of erros is increasing in any production, then it is time to step back and take a look at the processes. When quantity is more important than quality, no one wins. Just my opinion of course but why not go bi-weekly? Articles would be fresher and accuracy would improve. I am not in the business so this may not be a practical solution.

spinn

Barring the MSBA callout debacle, I don't think anyone could faitly say the "frequency and enormity" is on the increase. Nor do I think you could say that The Fisherman is about quantity above quality. I think you get both--some stuff just may not apply as directly to the fishing you do.

:drool: I for one would love to see more eros in both magazines!

who really cares if they make minor mistakes once in a while? it's not like it's gonna throw your whole life out of whack.

i love reading both your mags. gets me through the winter. keep up the good work :kewl:

I have been a subscriber to the Fisherman since 86 or 87 and OTW since a couple of issues of it's inception in 96 and I like both of them.

I believe that the Fisherman's ability to put out a weekly publication gives it a unique niche that no other magazine has ever filled. With the flip of a few pages in the report section you can get a feel for everything that's going on from Lake Ontario to Quabbin, Wachusett, Cod Reports, Surf Reports, Tuna Reports etc.. and lots of times mentioning people you know. Do I really care if the reports are a week old. Nope not in the least. I prefer to see that some dude I haven't seen in five years weighed in two six pound smallmouths last week at Wachusett, or what DZ or Tim Coleman did in the surf. It's all part of what makes fishing in New England great.

And the Fisherman gives you weekly articles by the likes of Coleman, Sampson, Lyons, Daignault, White, Teehan, Soares and other good writers who have been around for a long time. Zach I give you two thumbs up for a great job. :kewl: :kewl:

Ed

I still get the Fisherman every wednesday at work. Definetly lightens up the work week. I have read many informative articles and I don't believe anyone knows how much work you must put in to it each week. Keep up the good work. :kewl:

I am going to chime in although its a little out of my "territory".
As someone who writes for Fisherman (NY) I can honestly say that the hardest part of writing an article is giving something to the reader to take with him after finishing it.Think about it ,what in the world is there that hasn't been written?Livelining pogies?Done.Large bait ,large plugs?Done.Teasers?Done.Even the "poppers at night" concept has been covered.Now think about the problem for a writer who wants to give something to the reader but has a quandary on his hands.Does he mentions something that has been written before?That's repeating ,right? Well ,if I don't put that darters should be used in "moving" water I will get killed by criticism.But if I do you will say "I know that ,its been written before".
The point I am trying to make is there are no secret techniques and no secret spots ,only a variation to old tried and true things.
And now for something most people don't ever consider when reading an article.............
When I just stared in the sport the articles in the magazines seemed to me like they we written by "Gods".These brutes of the men who braved Nor'easters and dragged cows on the sand behind them.Some of these writers inspired me to try harder even although at times I had no clue as what I was trying to accomplish.Over the years I got to meet some of these fellows in person and although I have "I knew that" attitude when reading an article at times I never forget the impression that those written word have had on my development as a surfcaster.There are guys and girls just like that who are reading the pages of these magazines today ,some of them soaking the written words like sponges.They are thirsty for information including some of the things we long forgotten ,to them are new.They are the future of this sport and although some articles might seem redundant they do serve a purpose because chances are to a certain percentage of a readers these things are new .
Lets face it ,we cant reinvent the wheel ,just improve it.

Zach I don't think anyone is bashing the job you guys are doing. I think the magazine hos gotten 150 % better since you have taken it over. I think part of the problem of rehashing might stem from reading the article in your publication early in the year, and then seeing it in another publication three months later. I am not sure if there is a cure for that or not.

One of my favorite reads now is the one by Charlie Soares talking about the large fish and where they were caught. I read that and think to myself there is still hope of getting that 50. Maybe a change of pace might be a weekly on some of the shops in the report section. Something along the lines of who owns the shop, their hours, address,phone number, what lines of reels, rods, and lures they carry.

Zach - I'm glad you are there over your predecessor...

Nice avatar John :bl: :devil2:

I have been a subscriber to the fisherman for over 12 years and I had been saving every issue. So ther are 50 issues a year times 12 years equals about 600 mags. I started going thru them and cutting out articles I thought worthwhile as reference material and then throwing out the rest.

What I found was quite interesting. The mag repeats the same articles periodiacally. Almost exactly as printed. I found articles that Tim Coleman wrote in 93, reprinted verbatum in 98 and again in 02.

I always found that the fishing reports were inaccurate. This clearly is not the fault of the mag but the tackle store dealers who inflate the catches to get guys in the door.

I believe that Zack has a tough job and works hard at what he does with virtually a skeleton staff. The mag is probably good for new guys but I personally will not be renewing when my subscription runs out.

:tm: I live in Brooklyn NY and love the magazine! Although it is aNew England mag, much of the "info" applies everywhere striped bastages roam... love the magazine!

I love the authors on OTW:), hey Gene I was asking for you today, but never bumped into you. Stop by the booth tomorrow if your there.

Zulu,
hats off to you for stepping up and defending your magazine, I'm done with both mags for a while, but I have enjoyed both.
on a side note -
Little ole Striped-Bass.com brings out the brass of New England's fishing scribes. Nice job John!!