My buddy that works for the Penn repair department told me yesterday that the company has fired the President and CEO, the National Service Manager, and the Vice President of Manufacturing. He say's morale is very low. He also said that he doubts that there will ever be a made in America spinning reel made by Penn again. That was the factory that all but closed down a month ago, they made the spinning reel's there. He also said that they are slow but sure making even the replacement parts in China too. Too bad because that was a big selling point for Penn, the made in America tag. Stiff competion requires the use of the cheapest labor I guess. The way he see's it eventually all the manufacturing will be done overseas. :hs: Paul

Every salt water reel I have is a Penn! I consider Penn an American icon just like Harley Davidson, what are they doing?????

, what are they doing?????

Making money. :smash:

made in usa....a fading logo. china- next industrial superpower, they will shape the globes economy :smash:

My buddy that works for the Penn repair department told me yesterday that the company has fired the President and CEO, the National Service Manager, and the Vice President of Manufacturing. He say's morale is very low. He also said that he doubts that there will ever be a made in America spinning reel made by Penn again. That was the factory that all but closed down a month ago, they made the spinning reel's there. He also said that they are slow but sure making even the replacement parts in China too. Too bad because that was a big selling point for Penn, the made in America tag. Stiff competion requires the use of the cheapest labor I guess. The way he see's it eventually all the manufacturing will be done overseas. :hs: Paul

bummer. but that is the result of living in a POST- INDUSTRIAL NATION. No such thing as out sourcing.

FREE ENTERPRISE RULES !

Every salt water reel I have is a Penn! I consider Penn an American icon just like Harley Davidson, what are they doing?????

Trying to survive... It's a dog eat dog world out there. Whether we like it or not, China's where it's at til further notice. Sadly, we're gutting our own work force in the process.

Penn's first problem is they are out of touch with the consumer.
They IMO just placed the nail in the coffin.
Once again they have underestimated the consumer.
In the past when Penn was top of the line reels they refused address the problem issues with their reels. When they did respond it was out of desperation because of lost market share. How many years of the consumer telling them that Penn’s bails flip does it take for them to listen? Well apparently they still do not get it because we are going on 20 years and nothing has been done other than telling the consumer they have the reel handle in the wrong position while casting.
They addressed the issues on the 5500SS and after 3 changes and 15 years they still did not get it right. So they discontinue the reel and come out with a new version called the SSg .
Well lets talk about their newest.
It finally got a infinite Anti-Reverse. All other companies have had it for over 5 years. Even on their cheapest $20 reels! They have not addressed the spool taper. And with every one running braid today they did not even put an oversized line roller on the series of reels. So their newest reel is already outdated.

If Penn would just listen.
For at least 4 years I have committed to a large quaint of reels. I call it the improved 704 /706
Give me this reel with a infinite Anti-Reverse , newer improved Bail spring ,drilled out rotor like a VS, Anodized finish not painted, oversized Line Roller Bearing. Does not have to be sealed .Hell with only 3 moving internal parts a kid could clean it in 5 min.
They could sell this reel in the $200 range
What does Penn do??
They move a problem reel that most guys were on the edge of using to a fixed rediculious price
From $85 to $129. and move its production overseas. Thus guaranteeing it’s extension.

The only way people are going to go back to Penn is if they get the same reel as they have been getting for 10 years and drop the price to $50 in level with all the other imported reels.
There is no reason for the consumer to support Penn now that they have moved their spinning reels overseas.

The steps that should have been taken are .
Clean house starting with the Management and then moving to the design and research and development. Replace them with a new team that will directly listen to the consumer and address the issues with their reels. And most of all remain in the USA

Mike, don't hold back...please tell us what you're thinking :grins:

As someone who was just shopping for a new reel I couldn't agree more. There are very few options available for the surfcaster, and the one diehard has recently sold it's soul.

-spence

I would but this is a family board :wall:
But then what do I know been only listening the the consumer complain over their reels fro 20 years.

mike,

three four years ago penn sends two prototype slammers to Bill Pew (Fishers) out here. I bet you got a couple or more.

Bill gives the medium one to me (which would become the 460) and the smaller one to Captain Tom M. and tells both of us to NEVER rinse and give it back in November.

The friggin thing was the greatest reel I had ever used and worked perfectly all season. I dunked, sanded it, puked on it and it still worked great. It broke my heart to give it back but the season was over.

So the next year I buy the 360, 460 and they are so so. The drag is good, if you maintain it but the components overall work so so.

I wish I had that proto still it was the best reel ever. number 80 hand inked on it.... :crying: :crying: :crying:

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

I remember as a kid(not too long ago) when items were all made in Japan and that was considered cheap/low quality. Things have changed with Japanese products since then. Resume now with China, but a big problem with China is that they do not respect any type of patents. They have hundreds and hundreds of law suits against companies that replicate cars, and other products. Worse yet, is that the Chinese government has done nothing about all of this.

When I have the chance to buy similar products, whether made in USA or another country and China, even if I have to pay more, I will always buy the American or other country's part. China's tactics are a disgrace!

I have to agree, if Penn made a better version of the 704 or 6 that was priced around 200 or 250 bucks, VS would be in big trouble. annodized, sealed drag... i'd buy one.

20 years of selling penn reels they have never brought in proto types nor asked my opinion of their reels.
The only time I have ever seen the peolpe from penn other that the local rep is when they were having a photo shoot with Atlantic boats. For new at the time international reels. Some one shipped their rods up and they were damaged in shipment.They had me stay late about 4 hours after closing and repair all the rods.

then they really do suck.

i came through your shop once a couple of years ago. it was impressive. incredible looking rods, great conversation going on (I must have hit a lucky moment :rotf3: ) everything organized. all the good stuff....

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

sorry guys but if a quality reel comes from overseas I will buy it. However, if there is a quality reel within the same price range as the overseas reel I will buy the american reel.

i hope Penn is seeing this post from Mikecc!! Let it rip big fella!!!

Is Penn changing the design on the 704Z and 706Z? I went to their website and they have the 706Z weighing at 25.5 ozs and the gear ratio at 4.6. I remember the weight being 21 ozs and I think the gear ratio was 3.7 or 3.8. They have the 704Z listed at 22 ozs, before the 704Z was heavier than the 706Z?

Bill sold out last Fall. He's done. no one picked up his shop. i wish i was more experienced...

this is gonna be the best season ever....

So who is goign to sell all the honey lamis and Penn reels to the tourists? And will the tourists finally stop flipping the reels over and backwinding when they see some of us with conventionals :whackin:

Interesting to hear that about Bill. Very nice guy and I wish him luck (though I've often wondered if he has poured too much lead over the years without a mask)...

What does that leave for a decent shop on the island? The gas station?


Penn - they have screwed the pooch. Anyone have any method for them to come on and engage some of their customers? No, I'm not holding my breath

I noticed the same thing. Maybe if we are lucky they will improve the anti-reverse and limit all that play.

After a lot of research and shopping around (and around and around) I went with Shimano. Hard to beat the features and quality for the price. And it was on SALE, something I never saw from Penn. I looked long and hard at the Penns, believe me, I wanted one. But I couldn't justify the cost vs. value for my hard earned green. You're right- they did it to themselves. Another example of arrogant management not listening to anybody. I'm sure some of the people at Penn have been trying to tell their bosses for years what the score is. Same problem where I work. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't necessarily Chinese business practices, its poor American leadership in the manufacturing sector.

I agree with you in that if Penn could just "update" the 704 and 706 to improve things such as the line roller(706) and the significant handle play, I would have no need to buy a VS, Saltiga or any other reel for that matter. But, they choose not to embrace change nor listen to their customers, the anglers. Sure I still use my Penns, but I like the fact that other companies who DO listen to the customer, and they will get my business.

As usual MikeCC fills us in on all the pertinent inside guff with a manufacturer. That is one of the things that make this list what it is. Where else after reading and listeneing too our buddies could we go to get this information and make an informed decision? No where. Mike has told us many things about Penn before but today we learn some more.

I sent a Penn 9500 back for premature bail floppage and when I called the factory to check someone in the office wanted to know how much or long I have been fishing. I supposed that is a fair question though in retrospect. The direct cause of all of the manufacturing and replacement parts coming out of China no doubt is managements confusion over how important the consumer and retailer opinon is.

Just remember the NAFTA bill was signed into legislation by Bill, spread the wealth, Clinton, not Goerge %$%$%$%$. NAFTA accelerated the rush to outsource like nothing else ever.

Another example of arrogant management not listening to anybody. I'm sure some of the people at Penn have been trying to tell their bosses for years what the score is. Same problem where I work. I'm beginning to think the problem isn't necessarily Chinese business practices, its poor American leadership in the manufacturing sector.
You hit the nail on the head. Several years ago there was an article in Fine Woodworking where they went to Taiwan and toured factories that made woodworking equipment. US buyers bought the cheapest equipment that was available. Price is not the only thing that counts.

In today's economy, I can see how things are being made elsewhere, but something that really has to be done is regarding China's government that allows companies to infringe patents. Honda alone has several patent lawsuits against Chinese companies that are literally producing Honda vehicles such as the Civic, with a Honda logo and everything, when in fact they are pure knock-offs. That is scary.

China should at least be made to play by the same rules that other foreign countries do.

How are you gonna make China play by the same rules when they have a complete different set of priorities?Things like the environment,safety,patents they don't mean squat to a country like China.
Most of these people don't have drinking water, electricity, infrastructure, health care, etc. Do you think they care about patent infringement?
So, you say the U.S. should not import goods from a country like this? We should not be trade partners with a country that doesn't play by the rules, right?
Who's gonna push this? The irony is that the big U.S. manufacturers are the one's migrating to China.Their rushing over there to build their plants and take advantage of the cheap labor market.And, they have the lobby $ behind them to make damn sure the gates stay open.Meanwhile, wall street's loving the ROI, the company's are making money, and the gov't is telling you this is good for the economy.
Wait til it all comes crashing down.

What you say is true. I'm not saying we shouldn't import anything, I', just saying I wish something would be done about what is going on. Too bad the Chinese govt. is in cohoots with the companies. That really makes it a toughy!

How are you gonna make China play by the same rules when they have a complete different set of priorities?Things like the environment,safety,patents they don't mean squat to a country like China.
Most of these people don't have drinking water, electricity, infrastructure, health care, etc. Do you think they care about patent infringement?
So, you say the U.S. should not import goods from a country like this? We should not be trade partners with a country that doesn't play by the rules, right?
Who's gonna push this? The irony is that the big U.S. manufacturers are the one's migrating to China.Their rushing over there to build their plants and take advantage of the cheap labor market.And, they have the lobby $ behind them to make damn sure the gates stay open.Meanwhile, wall street's loving the ROI, the company's are making money, and the gov't is telling you this is good for the economy.
Wait til it all comes crashing down.

BB - who is going to but the products when we get into the same unemployment situations like in Europe?

Van Staal.

Simple solution.

End this free-market nonsense as practiced by Buhs and Clinton because it is selling our very foundation in the name of corporate profits.

I really don't think our standard of living will be impacted that dramatically if we can't buy .69 cent potato peelers and 15 dollar DVD players.

There's a balance point there somewhere.

-spence

John - That's exactly my point. Maybe the corporate big shots don't realize, or maybe they just don't care because this process will take a while. But, the fact is that everytime they migrate an operation to China they are firing their BEST CUSTOMERS.
When Billybob loses his good paying job in the brass mill and gets a job at Walmart, he ain't buying no Plasma TV's - neither is Wonhunglo, who's working at the new brass mill in Xianjang cause he's only making 25 yuan a month!
Walmart's gonna have to layoff Billybob, cause their sales are down.All these wonderful service jobs disappear because there's no manufacturing base to support them.
Unemployment rises as the tax base shrinks and we have a crises on our hands.
The incumbent will get blamed, a new party voted in, but it's too late - the damage is done.
And the CEO retires to Cancun :peessed:

Is the price of gas going up or is the value of the dollar going down?
This might be happening faster than you think.

Wunhunglo doesn't have electricity in his mud hut floor abode, so getting a plasma TV is not high on his to-do list. Don't forget these people still kill their female born children without government repudiaton. :(

no one saw the news I guess...china just built a [something like] 250 million gal.oil tank and refinery..an nothing to put in it...their looking to fill those tanks with the same oil we're after....oil going to the highest bidder?

had a talk with a shop owner yesterday about reel's...he's not happy with penn. he said look at these cheap reel's I get from oversea's,,can't get part's for them...penn goes oversea's, think I'll get part's for them? he has his dought's....the co's just want you to buy a new one when the one you have now goes south.....they don't give a rat's behind about getting the one you have fixed.. there's no profit in that.

John - That's exactly my point. Maybe the corporate big shots don't realize, or maybe they just don't care because this process will take a while. But, the fact is that everytime they migrate an operation to China they are firing their BEST CUSTOMERS.
When Billybob loses his good paying job in the brass mill and gets a job at Walmart, he ain't buying no Plasma TV's - neither is Wonhunglo, who's working at the new brass mill in Xianjang cause he's only making 25 yuan a month!
Walmart's gonna have to layoff Billybob, cause their sales are down.All these wonderful service jobs disappear because there's no manufacturing base to support them.
Unemployment rises as the tax base shrinks and we have a crises on our hands.
The incumbent will get blamed, a new party voted in, but it's too late - the damage is done.
And the CEO retires to Cancun :peessed:

Wal Mart is the single biggest importer of Products manufactured in China according to a 60 minutes program recently aired. $18Bil (thats billion)in 2004 or approx 70% of their goods are manufactured in china, and they expect this to grow at 20% yearly. They are a big part of the problem. They squeeze manufacturers til its unprofitable for the manufacturer to deal with them, then they suggest to that manufacturer, "hey. why dont you consider manufacturing overseas(asia) to reduce yourt costs". Think about that next time you shop at Wal Mart.

I was at The Gap the other day and I was looking for socks. Surprisingly all the socks they had were either made in the USA or in Canada. I felt good about that and bought a couple more pairs.

BillBob - I know, that's what I meant.

Sadly funny, "the world needs ditch diggers" is true, but our economy needs a swath of people representing the entire spectrum of the job market from the bottom to the top, and we need the jobs that support them. So a few years back Wall Street ups the stock of a company for cutting costs by laying off a few thousand here and a few there, and then other companies follow suit. (Yeh, I'm picking unrelated situations here)... But now some of those workers are working again, sometimes in the same field and sometimes in new careers, often at a lower pay and position than before as there is somewhat of a glut, yet they no longer count against the unemployment becuase the 80K job has been replaced with a 50K job. And the 50 with a 30 yada,yada,yada...

People are getting retrained at the governments expense (read ours) to learn new skills, ie computers, or various corners of the service industry because their job was moved overseas.

In my field of IT, the loss of jobs to the dot.com boom (partially the fault of STOOOPID investers not knowing what WTF they were doing), the offshoring of positions (plenty of interesting articles saying how well that is working :rollem: ) and I was competing for positions with my certs, skills, and 9 years on the job against someone with a masters and 15 years that may be severly overqualified but that's where the market was. Now I'm not buying a lot of stuff too. (Anyone looking for a network geek?)

So we have this wasting away of our industry and manufacturing base as the jobs go overseas. That person that spun metal is now landscaping or painting if they are lucky or Walmarting if they are not. The buying power remaining requires thay shop at Walmart further fueling the cycle. Wall Street raves about WM's success.

Housing costs in New England as well as other areas have skyrocketed. I moved to RI a few years ago but could never move back to mass now if I wanted. In the Boston area, pretty much between Providence and Nashua NH you need to spend 450-500K and up for a decent 3-4br in the average comunities. How much does Joe and Sally just got married need to have in combined income to turn that kind of nut? 120K household income? More? And Joe CEO has managed a company half into the ground but gets a big dollar bonus?

We have big effing problems in this great country.

Our schools suck for the most part.

We can't graduate ONE THIRD of our kids even though 20-30 percent of those that do probably should not in the first place.

The parents that should be reading to their kids when young are pulling three jobs to keep above water.

We're buying so much imported product that our dollars are all overseas, mostly in Asia.

The dollar is devauling. Sure, now our products are more attractive but what do we have left to trade with? Boeings? Sure, China will take some Boeings from us. The first 10 and then they start license production... Oil is going theu the roof from demand overseas and to the weak dollar.

Corporations are setting up shop in the Carribean so to evade taxes and pumping more money, then offshoring the jobs to save more money.

We are losing our technical edge.

We have lost our manufacturing edge.

How many service jobs will there be replace the industrial economy that we had?

China keeps ignoring patents and builds or rev-engineers when they want. They are building SIGNIFICANT military forces in their neck of the woods that while we may more and better, our stuff is not all in there neck of the woods. They control the access to the Panama Canal

We were the cat's nuts before. We are losing it people.

Time to send the Union Organizers Overseas....

Simple solution.

End this free-market nonsense as practiced by Buhs and Clinton because it is selling our very foundation in the name of corporate profits.

I really don't think our standard of living will be impacted that dramatically if we can't buy .69 cent potato peelers and 15 dollar DVD players.

There's a balance point there somewhere.

-spence

exactly :humpty:

Certain free market issues are already starting to show up in India relative to It suppport etc... Competition for qualified people, (can't be found) and wage scales and benefit packages are skyrocketing, etc... Sound familiar? Humpty may not be too far off as an analogy. Bottom line, all's fair in Love and War. We're at War economically speaking right now. Ask any Joe on the street. Question is, does anyone in Washington know it????

does anyone believe that free market is natural and healthy ?

does anyone remember Korea ? Mexico ? The Free market (through industry) has hopped and skipped it's way around the 3rd world looking for labor to exploit or moves on when the countries standard of living gets to high

IMO, unfortunately that seems to be the norm in the animal kingdom. kill or be killed i guess....

it means we feel slighted because our quest for profit has superceeded our quest for excellence

I have to agree, if Penn made a better version of the 704 or 6 that was priced around 200 or 250 bucks, VS would be in big trouble. annodized, sealed drag... i'd buy one.

The only flaw with this is that VS already tried it. US built, US assembled, built like we want it to be (not counting an easy way to get inside) and look where it got them. Starting from day 1 it's apparently never exactly worked, at least in terms of the company making money. I guess Penn could learn from the mistakes and give it a try, but there is already a business model out there for built to last, built in the US reels and it's not encouraging.

In the past I've had several engineers stop by the shop, look at the VS, and be surprised they sold for what they did a few years ago. Which makes sense considering the company ended up being bought by Bradley Company. It's just an expensive reel to make, there's no way around it.

Lastly, not listening to customers is a reminder that the surf casting community; especially hard core surf casters, is a very small group. Many of the products we use weren't built with surf fishing in mind, they just happen to work there. I doubt the Saltiga was built with the surf in mind but it apprently works there. Support those who DO listen. Besides VS there aren't many reel makers, but Aquaskinz and your local plug builders certainly do. :)

yep, well said

That's what happens when your economy is based on growth as opposed to sustainability.

Beachwalker, your right. Companies have been chasing the cheap labor around the third world for decades.Gradually the standard of living and costs rise and they move on to the next.This migration has always had an effect on American jobs.But, China's gonna be the mother of all job busters.They just have sooo many people, and the investment community is Jumping all over it despite the political and economic risks. China is allowed to grow at an unprecedented rate on someone else's dime.
So perhaps it's survival of the fittest, and there's a new world order around the bend. The gravy train is pulling into the station.
The part I don't understand is: Why aren't we fighting it?
We are taking on water and standing on the foredeck, when maybe it's time to pull it into drydock and shore her up before we lose her.
If you know what I mean.

Why aren't we fighting it?



This country puts money and power ahead of all else. Things are not changed until the brink of catastrophe, and even then, the politicians have it all figured out so they will stand to benefit from it all somehow. In the end, it is always us that pay the price.

Well hopefully Penn has moved forward with the firing of all that upper management and can get some people in there that can turn the ship around. They do have the Penn name and that is probably the most widely recognized name in fishing. Now they just need to get back to the drawing board and make some decent quality products. It can be done but they need to hire people that know how to turn them in that direction. Seems they have been resting on their laurels too long. If they wait too long though there are a lot of reel manufacturers out there just waiting to jump on their market share, if it hasn't happened already. As far as the relationship with their customers I guess they need work in that area too from what I have read. I hate to see any American manufacturing buisness that was so good at one time fall so far. Paul

a few years back I had some problems with my penn reels and got no satisfaction from penn resolving these issues.... I went to shimmanno and haven't looked back......(well I did look at some of the penns last season, but walked away) .... it is a sad fact that all the sacred items that we used to pride ourselves with making have been outsourced ........ :af:

So what is my alternative to a Penn Senator for wire line??? I have switched on the spinning side to shimano due to many of the poor quality/feature issues with Penn, but what about for wire??

For wire or for trolling I feel Penn is still the way to go. Simple and effective reels. I am not sure if any other manufacture's offer a stainless, or chromed cast bronze spool. Aluminum spools just don't hold up to wire or leadcore for that matter, corrosion. I still like the old Penns before they went to the plastic bodies. There are millions out there. I have asked many times why they do not make anymore bronze spools for any of their reels, jigmaster, 112H, etc. except for the 113HSP. I guess they just want to sell you a new spool every year. I buy all my Penns on E-Bay and then have the old corroded spools stripped and chromed. All replacment parts are still readily available. Good as new. Paul

I said this once before if Shimano offered the Stradic with a waterproof drag and a sealed housing for under $250 they'd be the balls.Will they do it...probably
not knowing that the hardcore surf guy will pay huge dollars for a VS.

Until then I'll to stick with my Spheros and 704z.Or possibly an Okuma VS reel depending on how well IT works out.

First time posting on this board, so a quick intro is probably appropriate. My name is Brent Kane. I am the Advertising & Communication Mgr for Penn Fishing Tackle. Having been with the company for just over two years, I have seen a fair amount of the changes and can appreciate the concern and resentment towards Penn. I also worked at Fisherman's Headquarters in NJ for about 10 years prior and saw what was happening to Penn. About five years ago, I had given up any faith on the company. They allowed quality to slip, processes to slide, and their name to turn. Quite honestly, it pi$$ed me off, and when the company sold to the new owners I knew things would improve. Two years ago, I managed to get a position with Penn, and I have been holding on tight ever since; it is a bumpy ride. There were many things wrong, and to fix them is not an overnight process. As they say, what a long strange trip it's been.

From what I have read on this board so far, it seems like a pretty good group, and is the reason why I am offerring my email address to answer questions on Penn issues. Please feel free to ask anything with the exception of pricing, deals, product specifications, or what reel is best matched with what rod. My answer to these is simply see your local Penn Gold Label Dealer. As far as questions that pertain to Penn issues, I'll answer anything as honestly as I can. Quality, decisions, direction, production, relationships with Dealers, new product suggestions, whatever else you can think of??? I can be reached at bkane@pennreels.com I will have no problem with my reply being copied onto the site for others to read or even argue back to me with their take on my comments. I apologize for taking this approach, but the last time I spent time on a fishing forum it became impossible to keep up with all the topics, threads, and posts. I hope this approach works.

I look forward to receiving your emails, and all I ask for is patience; I will try my best to answer any inquiries the same day, but depending on other priorities, it may take a day or two.

Best regards,
Brent

Penn's first problem is they are out of touch with the consumer.
They IMO just placed the nail in the coffin.
Once again they have underestimated the consumer.
In the past when Penn was top of the line reels they refused address the problem issues with their reels. When they did respond it was out of desperation because of lost market share. How many years of the consumer telling them that Penn’s bails flip does it take for them to listen? Well apparently they still do not get it because we are going on 20 years and nothing has been done other than telling the consumer they have the reel handle in the wrong position while casting.
They addressed the issues on the 5500SS and after 3 changes and 15 years they still did not get it right. So they discontinue the reel and come out with a new version called the SSg .
Well lets talk about their newest.
It finally got a infinite Anti-Reverse. All other companies have had it for over 5 years. Even on their cheapest $20 reels! They have not addressed the spool taper. And with every one running braid today they did not even put an oversized line roller on the series of reels. So their newest reel is already outdated.

If Penn would just listen.
For at least 4 years I have committed to a large quaint of reels. I call it the improved 704 /706
Give me this reel with a infinite Anti-Reverse , newer improved Bail spring ,drilled out rotor like a VS, Anodized finish not painted, oversized Line Roller Bearing. Does not have to be sealed .Hell with only 3 moving internal parts a kid could clean it in 5 min.
They could sell this reel in the $200 range
What does Penn do??
They move a problem reel that most guys were on the edge of using to a fixed rediculious price
From $85 to $129. and move its production overseas. Thus guaranteeing it’s extension.

The only way people are going to go back to Penn is if they get the same reel as they have been getting for 10 years and drop the price to $50 in level with all the other imported reels.
There is no reason for the consumer to support Penn now that they have moved their spinning reels overseas.

The steps that should have been taken are .
Clean house starting with the Management and then moving to the design and research and development. Replace them with a new team that will directly listen to the consumer and address the issues with their reels. And most of all remain in the USA
..

Brent, welcome, and somehow I knew Mike would be the first to respond... oh yeah, make Mike a Penn dealer again :D I saw you wanted to address relationships with Dealers, as well.....

Brent, welcome, and somehow I knew Mike would be the first to respond... oh yeah, make Mike a Penn dealer again :D I saw you wanted to address relationships with Dealers, as well.....

I am still a dealer .Just not a very happy one. :splat:

BK Hope you dont mind keeping this in public I have nothing to hide.

I love Penn ,just wish they would take their heads out of their. :bshake:
I would never again use a penn spinning reel after past problems. I sell them to people who demand them which is fewer and fewer each year.After we are out of the US made spinning reels we will most likely drop all spinning reels by penn. There is to much out there better quality for the money.
Their Boat reels are now starting to take a hit, but they still remain on top

Brent - Welcome to S-B...

I do not know what kind of influence, if any, that you may have in the upper workings of Penn. I truly hope you have some. As "Advertising & Communication Mgr" I'm willing to guess that you have been either tasked with trying to curb some of the disenchantment on the street or are taking it upon yourself to do that. If you have any true power beyond that, just maybe Penn has a chance.

Penn is in Deep Kimshe right now – certainly in the eyes of the former faithful and likely on the balance sheet as well. Perhaps your big water International reels are still top dog in their market segment but the products sought after and purchased by the Average Joe are no longer very sought after and less likely to be purchased. Up and down the coast, Penn probably owned 75% of the market, coffee grinders grinding….

Penn has languished in innovation and thoroughly embarrassed itself in product quality. Simple issues that have gone on for years like flipping bails and tiny line rollers have been ignored by the old ownership and apparently skipped by the new ownership.

Now that you are moving spinning reel production over to the shoe factory nation, what POSSIBLE incentive remains for us to purchase a Penn reel? The first reel I ever bought with my own money was a Penn. I have Penn reels my grandfather fished in the 50’s surf and bigger game. I have purchased numerous Penn reels over the years but it looks like my 975 from last year will be my last Penn unless something drastic happens at your company.

Issues with Penn:

Little innovation, Cannot even incorporate best practices developed by other companies (larger line rollers anyone?, Anti-Reverse?? Come on, this is bush league stuff guys)

Overseas production

Introduction of CRAP product

Ridiculously stupid Gold Label Dealer program

Re-badging of other crap product, Roddy Reels? Junk. Walmart JUNK. Actually Walmart might even pass on that stuff.

I am really not trying to be negative here but I can honestly NOT think of anything positive to say about Penn Reels or from Penn Reels over the past few years. There was mild hope with the Slammers but even those fell short. It is disappointing to see how bad Penn Reels is operating as a company, frustrating, disappointing, and suffering from a complete disconnect for it’s user base. We as a community WANT Penn to succeed and not need to stumble into the crap on this post but it is up to Penn to produce the World Class Reels that they falsely claim, and it is up to Penn to lead the American Reel market. Right now, you guys are not doing it.

I hope you can at least stay with this thread as you replied here.

Sincerely,

John

Chief Cook & Bottle Washer

www.Striped-Bass.com

for what its worth, i have a slammer and absolutely love it. :wiggle:

for what its worth, i have a slammer and absolutely love it. :wiggle:

And that's why your go to reels are a VS and some tuned Old 704/6 reels, right? I have debated a Slammer time and again but the C/B ratio just don't seem right. I dropped that coin (and then some) on something else... a used VS. Imagine, needing to pay 3 times the value of Penns' premeire surf reel on a USED REEL because the Penn does not do what I want it to do where I want to do it :humpty: .

The only Penn's I buy now are the old models. I probably own 20 to 30 Penn reels, 80 % are boat stuff. Nothing newer than 1990. I buy them off the auction sites and fix or repair them myself. I feel all the new stuff just doesn't measure up to the old stuff. I feel way more comfortable with a 20 year old Penn than a brand new one. What I do have I love. What I like about the Penn stuff is the simplicity of the design and the ease of repair. My opinion is Penn has gotten lazy, collected the $ and put nothing back into the company, living off the once prestigious Penn name. Times are changing and you are being left in the dust. Paul

I started cutting my surfcasting teeth just as Daiwa and Shimano started making inroads in the American market.

IMO, the only reason Penn was able to retain a market share in the face of comparable, and even superior, products from the Japanese was the loyalty consumers paid to "the Great AMERICAN Reel Company". Once you move spinning reel production to China, Penn is going to get lost in a sea of cheap-assed "entry-level" junk offered by a gazillion other companies--Tica, Okuma, Marado, you name it.

It's a pretty telling fact that the two Penn reels most favored by hard core surfcasters are a spinning reel designed in the early 1960s and a conventional designed in the 1930s. If I put a Captiva thru the paces I've put the green 704 on my shelf, it wouldn't have lasted for 30 weeks, let alone 30 years. Same with an International 975 as opposed to the 60 year old Squidder I still use.

Your main selling points for over 20 years, in the face of increased import competition, was simplicity of design, interchangeability of parts between similar models, parts availability, continuity of product, and above all else, products engineered and manufactured in the US of A. IMO that last point was the only thing that's kept Penn in business.

I wonder what the future holds for the Z series.Discontinuation or overseas production?Either way we lose.

I guess its Shimano from here on out.

Seems to me Penn management has the same arrogance of the Big 3 Auto Manufacture’s of the 70's versus the Japanese auto's and look what happened to them.

I hope you (Penn) will listen to what is being said here because it's been falling on deaf ears for so long.

I "was" dyed in the wool Penn (spin) but sold every one I had opting for Shimano, that was hard to do. Convince me & others to come back but for now I am sticking with a much greater performing product.

Throw this at management - I bet MikeCC has sold 75 Shimano to a lonely 1 Penn (both spin) and, AND if Shimano changes the spool on their boat reel to be wire friendly watch out your 112/113/114's are in trouble. He is one small shop in one small town, add'm up.

Penn = :smash:

how maeny surf caught fish were on a 704?penn needs to step up to the plate

Here's what I would suggest.

Van Staal proved there was a market for a premium spinning reel. Right now, Penn has written off that market. Shimano and Daiwa jumped in with both feet, with the Stella and Saltiga. They're proving guys will spend $600-$700, or even close to $800, for a quality product. If you could engineer a similar product, build it here, and bring it to the market in the $400-$500 price point, you'd have an instant success.

You want to make Zebco rue the day they ever acquired Van Staal? Re-engineer the 704 and 706. One little tweak--figure a way to retro-design them with "instant" roller-bearing anti-reverse. You could bump the price to $200 or even $250 and sell every one you make. Bring back the 710 and 712 with the same tweak---maybe even manual conversion capability, and you'd wipe the VS 150 and 100 out.

Oh yeah---one other thing. Tell the guys in production to ship the damn things with adequate grease inside a new reel. Most of the Slammers are dry as a bone inside, new out of the box. I hate spending $135 for a reel only to have to break it down and grease it before I use it.

I bet MikeCC has sold 75 Shimano to a lonely 1 Penn (both spin)
Close chris. we have sold 78 Shimano and only 1 Penn Spinning (706) but we have sold 6 Penn 113HSP ,1 - 330GTI and only 1 Shimano Boat reel.

This is lhe last post for me on this subject.

I'll I have to say is there is no reason for me to believe in Penn when the Company does not believe in themselves.

Shimano makes a fantastic reel, and has terrific customer service.

But I have to echo everything Mike P just said. I love my VS, but needing another spinner I fretted over another VS or the Saltiga. I ended up buying a 704 off ebay...I would have easily spent up to 400 on any other product that had a nice anti-reverse and could deal with the suds...

-spence

mike p hit the nail on the head.

You want to make Zebco rue the day they ever acquired Van Staal? Re-engineer the 704 and 706. One little tweak--figure a way to retro-design them with "instant" roller-bearing anti-reverse. You could bump the price to $200 or even $250 and sell every one you make. Bring back the 710 and 712 with the same tweak---maybe even manual conversion capability, and you'd wipe the VS 150 and 100 out.


Available Manual conversion
Instant Reverse
Tapered Spool
Large Roller
Sealed Drag
Ventilated/Cross drilled spool * cup
Otherwise gasketed/sealed reel
Get rid of the damn clicker (pisses off some nighttime guys that don't lube the crap out of it)
Fix the Bail Flip

Roller bearing "instant" anti-reverse would do away with the clicker. No one I know back-reels those things with the anti-reverse off anyway, so there's no need for a switchable on/off anti-reverse. All it would do is add needless parts to a simple design.

Some machinists already slot the rotor cups, and most users drill the bottom of the cup. It's possible to make them that way (even with cast aluminum) without weaking the cup.

You don't even have to make them "sealed" like the VS. They're so simply designed inside that anyone who can turn a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench can break it down, clean it and re-lube them in less than half an hour.

For guys who want a bail, you could design the 704/710/712 so the bail only flips manually, like the Saltiga's. I can do it now by using the manual conversion kit, if I wanted a 704 with a bail that only flips by hand. I prefer the pure manual pick-up, but using the piece of the conversion kit that locks down the external bail trip, and removing the bail spring, you can have a "manual bail" instead of a pick-up.

The biggest beef guys have with Van Staal, besides the price, is the costly "annual service", and the difficulty in self-servicing them. I'm telling you, with mine and John's tweaks to the 7-series Spinfishers, you'd put a big dent in VS sales. We're out there fishing with the hard cores, and we listen. Penn management should listen, too. I know the surfcasting market is kind of a niche one, but the potential to sell these "Penn Staal" dreams is there ;)

Brent, print all this out and take it to management, your company should listen hard to this advise, they could spend thousands of dollars and up in market research, and not come up with advise as good as what's been written here.
Build them like the above recommendations, and watch them fly.

Man years ago, a top executive at Motorola decided to actually listen to an employee and the company took offfrom there.
Many years ago, top executives at Sony said that they will CREATE a market and people will comply. That was a big FLOP. It was only until they looked at what the market wanted (read: Unmet Needs) that they succeeded.

If people at Penn would listen to what the majority of anglers are asking for, and have a little PASSION, Penn would be an All-Star company.

The company has been sitting on its laurels for too long. Oldsmobile was first, Buick wil be next. Don't follow the corwd, do something about it. Improve your reels!!

Brent,
Are the 704 and 706Z going to remain the same? Is production going to be decreased on these?

Thanks,

Rich

I am still a dealer .Just not a very happy one. :splat:

BK Hope you dont mind keeping this in public I have nothing to hide.

I love Penn ,just wish they would take their heads out of their. :bshake:
I would never again use a penn spinning reel after past problems. I sell them to people who demand them which is fewer and fewer each year.After we are out of the US made spinning reels we will most likely drop all spinning reels by penn. There is to much out there better quality for the money.
Their Boat reels are now starting to take a hit, but they still remain on top

TO address the Spinning Reel issue, the SPinfisher SS reels (graphite bodies) were addressed, reevalauated, and tweaked, and revisted, and so an and so forth. What happened was the new management was tired of the band-aids being applied, and even more tired of the headaches...we needed a Spinfisher SS that works; result, the SSg that features 5 bb + one-way roller (anything more in a spinning reel is marketing, not performance related). Unfortunately, things do not happen overnight; but it takes time to design, build, test, tweak, test again and manufacture.

THe SSg is balanced, smooth, and is genuinely a nice spinning reel. THat being said, its update was about 10 years overdo. The one thing I quickly learned when I first came aboard Penn two years ago, was how the past always haunts you. THe problems everyone is experiencing with their SS spinning reels are well known, and we have listened and adapted. THis was the new management acting when they improved upon the reel, not the old management.

If you want to sell your customers a great reel, try the Penn Slammer. The Slammers are one of the finest spinning reels on the market. Take a look at the drag (under the spool for those not familiar with the reel), and you will find that largest drag surface on just about any spinning reel. As far as being built, the Slammer is constructed for trophy fish; oversized main shaft to reduce the chance for a big cow to bend the shaft when the spool is extended, all metal construction (no body flex under severe loads), and 5+1 marine grade-stainless steel ball bearings. MikeCC, if you will never fish with a Penn spinning reel again, than I do feel bad for you as the Slammer is one of the nicest fishing reels around. And yes, I have fished with just about everything out there (Stella, Sustain, VS, Daiwa).

As far as where the reels are built, if the new SSg reels are able to stand on their own against foreign competitors, than why would the argument not to sell or buy Penn based on the fact that they are not made in the US be valid? Aren't our competitors all foreign companies?? There are no more US spinning reel companies left. Penn was the last to manufacture, or at least in any quantity, spinning reels in the US. If Penn is still a US company (don't worry, we still are) and you are arguing for made in the US, than why favor foreign competitors? I do not understand.

Best regards,
Brent

Man years ago, a top executive at Motorola decided to actually listen to an employee and the company took offfrom there.
Many years ago, top executives at Sony said that they will CREATE a market and people will comply. That was a big FLOP. It was only until they looked at what the market wanted (read: Unmet Needs) that they succeeded.

If people at Penn would listen to what the majority of anglers are asking for, and have a little PASSION, Penn would be an All-Star company.

The company has been sitting on its laurels for too long. Oldsmobile was first, Buick wil be next. Don't follow the corwd, do something about it. Improve your reels!!

DO you think five years ago, a manager from Penn would have taken the time to read, write, and reply to message boards. I know the old company was high on their horse. I can't say that of those that are in place now. Here I am reading the good, the bad, and the ugly about Penn and getting fired up over some of the commentary. Great thing about it, is I am in a position to do something about it and to incorporate the useful (both the good, bad, and the ugly) into improvements. Trust me when I say that many of the comments will be voiced in future meetings.

Good thing that the management team in place is hungry and not afraid of change. In addiiton PASSION, there will also be HARD WORK, failed attempts, good news, and bad news. In the end, there will be a company taking back its good name.

Thanks,
Brent

I think Penn is one of those classic cases of a company trying to market a product in the "middle" ...

...between lower-end and high-end reels.

And losing share to both. :rolleyes:

Close chris. we have sold 78 Shimano and only 1 Penn Spinning (706) but we have sold 6 Penn 113HSP ,1 - 330GTI and only 1 Shimano Boat reel.

This is lhe last post for me on this subject.

I'll I have to say is there is no reason for me to believe in Penn when the Company does not believe in themselves.

OUCH!!!

MikeCC, How about this for believing: Within five years, Penn will regain any lost ground from the past 15 year hiatus and move to the top of the food chain once again. Don't worry, there are still many that believe in Penn, and this includes Dealers up and down and around the coast. And as far as believing, Penn believes in Dealers that believe in us.

Here we are, launching new, improved, and revolutionary products and/or accessories; not really the sign of a company that does not believe in itself. What about the new Penn Dura-Drag, the Baja Special, the 118 new rods that we designed for 2005, the new fishing line that we launched this January, the new XXXX and XXXX-X that we can't talk about yet? I don't get the impression that we don't believe in ourselves, quite the contrary...
BK

I have a 560 Slammer and when I first used the reel I really liked it. Was very smooth and seemed to have a good drag. Maybe it is just me but whenever I dunk this reel, the drag is almost non-existant. One thing I think would have been a good idea is to have put a bronze main gear on the slammer instead of whatever that metal is on there now. I broke a couple of teeth on the main gear this past season.

Again, please feel free to email with specific questions.

Thanks for the commentary and opportunity to reply. THere will always be those that hate, disagree with everything we are doing, and have nothing but negative to say. Great, bring it on; Penn can't be everything to everyone. As long as we are making reels/rods/products that I can personally say I would fish with, I'm a happy camper. Have a great season, and tight lines to all.

Looking forward to some emails with specific questions.

Best regards,
Brent

And a big horrah for Penn! In China, it is estimated by many that of the 10 million children out of school, over 5 million are working in factories! Labor cost will drop, prices will go up and we get :bshake: :af: IMO, you sold your soul to the devil :devil2:

And a big horrah for Penn! In China, it is estimated by many that of the 10 million children out of school, over 5 million are working in factories! Labor cost will drop, prices will go up and we get :bshake: :af: IMO, you sold your soul to the devil :devil2:

Do you own any Ticas? Guess where they are made?

Penn's a little late to the game outsourcing their manufacturing to the Chinese. :bshake:

I have a 560 Slammer and when I first used the reel I really liked it. Was very smooth and seemed to have a good drag. Maybe it is just me but whenever I dunk this reel, the drag is almost non-existant. One thing I think would have been a good idea is to have put a bronze main gear on the slammer instead of whatever that metal is on there now. I broke a couple of teeth on the main gear this past season.

Not sure why the drag would disappate when dunked, as you should have a sealed drag knob, and with the drag under-the-spool, there is much less chance for water to intrude. Check to see if the drab knob has a small gasket, if not, I would recommend picking up another one from your local Penn Dealer or call our Parts department. If you have the gasket, I'd then check to make sure the drag plate is screwed down. Other than that, I don't have an answer.

I guess I should also find out, are you wetsuiting with the reel, or is this an occassional wave breaking over you that is causing this to occur. If wetsuiting, I would recommend a drag lube that will help keep water from instruding. I would also disassemble the reel after each trip, and rebuild, as the Slammer is not a water proof reel like the Van Staal.

As far as the main gear, I believe it is a hardened naval bronze, so I am not sure why there would be any problems. Without seeing the reel, or the condition is was in, I am working blind, so I won't try to guess what the issue might be. Has this been repaired already? If not, I would love to have it sent to me for evaluation.

Feel free to get back to me at your convenience.
BK

Do you own any Ticas? Guess where they are made?

Penn's a little late to the game outsourcing their manufacturing to the Chinese. :bshake:

No ticas in my closet, but I guess there is a little china in everything we own in some way or another :(

And a big horrah for Penn! In China, it is estimated by many that of the 10 million children out of school, over 5 million are working in factories! Labor cost will drop, prices will go up and we get :bshake: :af: IMO, you sold your soul to the devil :devil2:

Yup, labor is cheap in CHina. Once they get their act together it will be cheap somewhere else. It is a pretty simple math equation to perform. Take a spinning reel that is more labor intensive to assemble than it is to make the parts, take one very well-paid US worker versus the on-going rate of a CHinese factory worker. One of our US workers will pay for an entire assembly line. Factor in the fact that Penn was losing more than $3million per year at our Spinning Reel Factory, and we were faced with three decisions:
1. Stop selling spinning reels altogether. Save a $3mil lost, stop selling all spinning reek products, while foreign competition continues to pump reel after reel into the market.

2. Make Reels in the US and lose $3mil/yr or double or triple the price of our reels Not an option. We would be better off with the first option.

or...

3. Close US Factory, save $3mil/year, help find employment and do the right thing for displaced employees, and import spinning reels that are made to Penn specifications so Penn can make money and keep employing the three hundred other US workers at Penn. Someone inside our group said this best, It is not how many people we are losing, but how many we can save.

What is you decision if faced with these three options??? Sold our soul to the devil? I think not. Walk a mile before casting the first accussation. No one likes what is going on, but at the end of the day, a company has to be profitable and viable if it is to survive.

How about an incentive for moving offshore courtesy of our good goverment and their abiliity to tax. Here is an interesting little tax we all pay, the Federal Excise tax levied on all fishing related products. In its simplest form, this is a 10% tax paid on all fishing products. It is calculated upon the first price paid for an item when it is sold in the US. So when Penn sells an item made in the US, we are already at an extreme disadvantage to our foreign compeition. What they will do is sell the product into the US at a lower value, possibly their cost, to a separate holding company, who then "sells" the product back to their US counterpart company. OK, so it costs them $1 to sell an item, and they pay a 10cent tax on this. They can then markup the item to distributors and dealers at a disadvantage to Penn because we must pay the 10% on the first price sold (often to distributors). So lets say instead of the $1 our competition is selling their product at, we are at $8. Our tax is 80cents compared to their 10cents. This is a very elementary version of what takes place, but I am sure anyone can get an idea how we are already behind the proverbial 8-ball with foreign competition.

Penn is trying to keep jobs in the US, and will do so to the best of our abilities, but the tackle industry is the laggard in the great outsourcing project that is China. Take a look at just about any textile, clock, toaster, microwave, etc. Manufacturing is becoming more and more impossible in the US, and we are managaging to maintain a lion share of our reels as still being built in the US.

Brent Kane

...don't forget this is an innovation-driven product category... (= R&D, and *cough* user input) :spin:

...and it's also marketing-driven... ya think Shimano spends more on marketing dollars (including retail dealer incentives) than Penn does? :usd:

Where is the market for reels going? :lurk:

BK - I don't think there are many that hate Penn or at least won't warm back up to Penn if the company gets its sheet together. I think Penn can win a lot of them back but it will take a combination of savy and dependable product, a true and noticeable commitment from Penn to the customer base (maybe this is the start? Hope so but not holding my breath) and MADE in USA product.
If Penn is still a US company (don't worry, we still are) and you are arguing for made in the US, than why favor foreign competitors? I do not understand.
For years, that Made in USA was the make or break for a lot of people to chose from your product over the Shimanos and Daiwas of the world. Buying Made in the USA when the product sucks The product of recent years has not been of sufficient design and quality to stand above the better imported reels. Right now, especially with the condition of the Penn product in the state that it is in, there is little incentive to buy a Penn over another reel. Forget about Saltigas and Stellas, why buy a Slammer over a Stradic? If you are one of those that believe it is a toss up in quality on the reel, many might buy the Penn because it is made here instead of by the People's Liberation Army.

As for the graphite - I checked a couple out but nothing gave me the warm and fuzzies that I had to go and trade one of my Stradics in for one. As for the size reel I fish? 220yds of 12 # test ( BTW - your website is screwed up on the line sizes) is not going to do it for me. A Slammer 560 has borderline capacity for where I feel I need to be for surf fishing. I typically run about 170-180 yards of braid on one of my conventionals, 300 braid/mono on my 975. This is for what I consider average surf fishing for stripers. That graphite 5500g for "Trophy" fish ain't big enough for the trophys I chase. Hate to see what someone chasing bigger fish from shore would need. A 7500 or 8500 is too unwieldy for plugging although it has sufficient capacity. But then there is the bail thing...

Right now, I don't think Penn has enough of the right stuff to get me purchase their product. I've owned a few Penns, I am (was) one of your customers. Time is going to tell if I decide to purchase a Penn reel again. It won't happen if it is more of the same. If the company is truly turning the corner maybe I will. I won't buy one if it is made in China - that much I can say. Philosophical problem. I try not to buy from there when I truly have a choice. I will consider Taiwan. Putting my money where my mouth is...

MikeCC, How about this for believing: Within five years, Penn will regain any lost ground from the past 15 year hiatus and move to the top of the food chain once again. Don't worry, there are still many that believe in Penn, and this includes Dealers up and down and around the coast. And as far as believing, Penn believes in Dealers that believe in us. I truly would like to see that with a US made product. As for Penn belieiving in dealers that believe in Penn. Mike was one of your biggest supporters. He runs a first class shop. I don't entirely recall what some of the Mickey Mouse rules were for being a Gold Dealer but but there is soome Mickey Mouse - something like you need to carry X type of other reels from Penn, whether it is your market or not, or you need to carry a crappy reel as well or both, I don't remember correctly and I went looking for the thread but could not find it. Mike is the kind of shop you WANT to be a Gold Dealer. Knowlegeable, helpful, stands behind the product.

BTW - we DO appreciate your sitting in on this thread and discussing this with us. This is a very good start. So while it may appear that you are getting hammered, OK - you are a little bit - it is not personal, but a very rare time that Penn is taking upon itself or maybe just you, to connect with their buyers.... It is very appreciated. where it leads as well as other changes Penn makes down the road will mean a lot for people moving back to the Penn name....

Hey Eben - do you still have that picture of the PennStaal from SOL? I think BK needs some inspiration :hihi:

If it is cheaper to make the spinners in China, why isn't cheaper to make the conventionals there?Maybe they're not losing money for you, but it's only a matter of time before some bean counter uses the migrated China spinner model across the board.
Then, who is gonna be buying these reels?
I don't blame you - everyone's doing it, but it's a recipe for disaster IMO.
If you design a better product, with outstanding service, and parts - you should be able to make a go of it here.I own a lot of Penns, and some of them are older than me - you can still get parts for them.
But then, I like Snap-on tools.
.
Advertising catches people's attention.


Reputations are much harder to come by, but infinately more valuable

bk iam not trying to p you off.mikecc is a great dealer i bought a reel from him a month ago i wanted better drag washers put in not only did he have the washers in stock but he put them in free of charge while i wated.i owen 6 penn reels.i wish penn made a 660 slammer they need to up grade the 704 .when i used to read MADE IN USA on the penn box it made me proud.snake slinger

These discussions are GREAT! It is nice to know that Penn is listening lets hope the folks on the board can help change things.

BK thanks for listening and adding your input!

Not Eben's Penn Stall, but BM's Von Penn..... :devil2:

I was thinking the same thing , Lurch. It took more than a little guts to offer an e-mail address to the potential avalanche of angry mail BK could face every morning. Just let me say this: I own at least a dozen Penn reels all but one work well. The one that doesn't has a graphite rotor that keeps breaking and won't be fixed yet again. It was replaced with a 460. The non-Penn reels that I own number about 4. None of them still work, and never will again because of parts availability. Let's just say that they were tuition in the School of Hard Knocks. I'll stick with Penn. Thanks BK for showing up.

1. Stop selling spinning reels altogether. Save a $3mil lost, stop selling all spinning reek products, while foreign competition continues to pump reel after reel into the market.

The first step that penn should have asked well before it got to 3 mil or even 1 Mil is why are we loosing money. Product support?? If Penn had addressed the issues long ago this would not be an issue.
If Penn is serious about this they should fix the problems.

The main people who supported penn were verterans. Now if they do not have a choice of US made spinners they may as well choose the best feel and fit. If Penn can step up than fine if not only time will tell.

MikeCC, How about this for believing: Within five years, Penn will regain any lost ground from the past 15 year hiatus and move to the top of the food chain once again. Don't worry, there are still many that believe in Penn, and this includes Dealers up and down and around the coast. And as far as believing, Penn believes in Dealers that believe in us.

I hope Penn regains a lot of ground.

I also hope that penn listens to this message . There is a lot of knowledge on this board . Reels that we have been asking for years. Most of us feel that nobody has listened. You are a step in the right direction.

Here we are, launching new, improved, and revolutionary products and/or accessories; not really the sign of a company that does not believe in itself. What about the new Penn Dura-Drag, the Baja Special, the 118 new rods that we designed for 2005, the new fishing line that we launched this January, the new XXXX and XXXX-X that we can't talk about yet?

You don't want to get me going on the short comings of some of new products and gold lable program.I do like the swimsuites tho :hee:

As far as line every one and their brother has new line . The reason Pure fishing aquiring Stren and the big 3 Wholesalers cant sell pure fishing products.
The biggest profit market is line so why not lets make it someone has to fill the gap.

I think if you check I am not your run of the mill tackle dealer. I know the products better than most reps that are supose to show it.
This area is where most companys fail on their products we do not want yes men we want some one who knows the product. I will say on one of the worst snow storms in years Penn reps were at the NET show. Most reps never showed.

If you want to talk call me at the shop on wednesday I'm sure we can have a constructive talk 508-291-0820

Penn has to come up with something big to bring it back from where it is now, dontcha think? :gf:

Oh well, at least I picked up a minty-fresh 706 and a few Slammers. :hee:

So does this mean the Z series is going by the wayside.Do I have to pick up a few more an some of the parts that go with time.Is it finally the end of the 706z areal thats been my staple in the surf for many yrs?

What are the most important segments to address?

1) Freshwater bass guys?

2) NE saltwater surf fishermen?

3) Boat fishermen?

Who thinks #2 is the least important here volume-wise? Are we the pimple on the arse of an Elephant? :ss:

Are we the pimple on the arse of an Elephant? :ss:


At a svelt 250+ lbs. I prefer to think of myself as a Boil.


But you are right, on that list freshwater Bass guys top the list of importance in the eyes of the manufacturers, and we, sadly, are #3

I'm sure Penn has some marketing research data on this. I wonder if BK would like to share it w/ us.

We are probably number 7 as you can likely scare up a couple more market segments. However, we ARE the segment where Penn cut its teeth and we ARE the segment that launched saltwater fishing's popularity as our forefathers were the ones of Saltwater Sportsman and the tourneys and the make of Penn in a way...

We are probably number 7 as you can likely scare up a couple more market segments. However, we ARE the segment where Penn cut its teeth and we ARE the segment that launched saltwater fishing's popularity as our forefathers were the ones of Saltwater Sportsman and the tourneys and the make of Penn in a way...

I think we are becoming increasingly irrelevant as a viable segment.

Anyone who wants to sell to us will be a specialty niche manufacturer or a smaller product line in a company with a large fishing portfolio.

Anyhoo, w/r/t to Penn ... I'll say again.

Production cost: Work in process?
Positioning: In the middle between value and high-end (excl. Int'l line)
Innovation: :sleeps:
Marketing : What marketing?

:eyes:

I think it's good that Penn has a new marketing guy that shows some interest in what the customer thinks, but it's going to take a lot more than that to turn the Penn ship around. Knowledgeable fishermen have been complaining about the same problems for years . . . and a lot of it was very fixable stuff. Unfortunately, Penn did nothing to address the problems and comes off as a company too stupid to get out of its own way. I've been surprised they've retained as much loyalty as they have - that's a real tribute to the patriotic sensibilities of fishermen.

I swore the 5500SS was the last Penn reel I'd ever buy, what a piece of junk! I ended up buying a 560 Slammer and I've been mostly satisfied with it - not a perfect reel, but I think it's a pretty good value compared to other reels in the same price range. Without the Slammer series Penn's surfcasting presence would be limited to greenie parts on E-Bay by now. I hope Penn can turn it around, and I think a lot of other fisherman feel the same way. But if they don't, there won't be many Penn loyalists left to attend the funeral.

Penn is not going to be made in USA anymore.... so... therfore, the girls in the ads have to take off the flag bikini's :kewl:

John... FWW---> both correct, we are probably a low priority as a group, but like John said, how did they get to where they got... bring back the US made coffee grinders, but update them... and for a low priority segment, we sure do get worked up over high end stuff, liike the VS, and Saltiga offerings, so target us something mid range-high range, with the aforementioned specs.

:kewl: You're doing a good thing stepping up, we're a pretty tough crowd :vamp:

But if you guys could follow through or even proto some of Mike p's suggestions as well as the others on the board that'd be excellent. I mean FFS you're PENN! EVERYONE has seen, touched, used a squidder, everyone has owned a 704/706 at one point, they're the workhorses('course we tweak 'em) but they're the workhorse. You have an audience, bounce ideas man! Best of luck... oh yeah I like my 7500's just fine :D ffs you got guys who designed bridges in school, Im quite sure you can get one of those cad monkeys to design an effective sealed drag...

If you want to sell your customers a great reel, try the Penn Slammer. The Slammers are one of the finest spinning reels on the market. Take a look at the drag (under the spool for those not familiar with the reel), and you will find that largest drag surface on just about any spinning reel. As far as being built, the Slammer is constructed for trophy fish; oversized main shaft to reduce the chance for a big cow to bend the shaft when the spool is extended, all metal construction (no body flex under severe loads), and 5+1 marine grade-stainless steel ball bearings.

MikeCC, if you will never fish with a Penn spinning reel again, than I do feel bad for you as the Slammer is one of the nicest fishing reels around. And yes, I have fished with just about everything out there (Stella, Sustain, VS, Daiwa).


Best regards,
Brent

He sold me one last summer. My wife chose a Stradic 8000. When both reels are side by side, there's no way you're ever gonna convince me the Slammer is a better reel than the Stradic. Bearing in mind that I'm a Penn loyalist, or used to be. If you're seriously comparing them to the Stella or Saltiga, your credibility just went the way of the Titanic :rolleyes:

Also, for a roller bearing anti-reverse, there's just enought back-slap there to be an annoyance. Same with the SSgs I've picked up and turned.

I propose that Penn change its name.

Instead of Penn, it really oughta be Chen.

:bl2: :think:

Hey Ben, add an "i" into that and it becomes french for "dog"! :D

ooohhh I feel a Chinese joke coming on, but since Alberto is lurking I'll behave. :angel:

ooohhh I feel a Chinese joke coming on, but since Alberto is lurking I'll behave. :angel:

Yeh Ben, you just can't offend the Chinese, eh?

Sigh.

Whither Penn?

Could it use a management enema of some kind?

Or maybe an R&D emetic, it seems the company keeps resorting to putting its finger down its proverbial throat to regurgitate the same old thing...

What is the end game for this company?

Do I smell an exit strategy for this tired old brand?

Think Shimano, Daiwa, or W.C. Bradley would step up to the plate to gobble it up while there is still some franchise value?

Is resistance to consolidation truly futile? Will Penn be assimilated into the hive?

Will Wee Wee ever shut up?

Inquiring minds wanna know.

:angel:

I'm still looking for the pictures of that real cool tricked out and drilled 706 a guy posted on SOL a couple years ago. Anyone have those pics??

I'm still looking for the pictures of that real cool tricked out and drilled 706 a guy posted on SOL a couple years ago. Anyone have those pics??


http://www.stripersonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb_547C/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/35820.html?

Slip - that one is close but I htought there was another one just as detailed....

Slip - that one is close but I htought there was another one just as detailed....

http://surftalk.njtackle.com/showthread.php?t=263

scroll thru the thread... starts out about cooler racks, but morphs into a Van Penn Thread

http://surftalk.njtackle.com/showthread.php?t=263

scroll thru the thread... starts out about cooler racks, but morphs into a Van Penn Thread

That one is schweet too...

That is the type of stuff I want to get into doing eventually. Making good reels better with a few upgrades. Paul

That is the type of stuff I want to get into doing eventually. Making good reels better with a few upgrades. Paul

I have a couple ideas too :hee: hehehehe.... But I have no talent :crying:

God willing if I get my home shop set up by the end of the year we will talk. Could start on the space in a few month's if it is financially feasible. Going to be looking for lots of ideas. Paul