A 4000 and a 4500 have arrived. Might order one of the bigger ones as well if people want to see them.

The 4000 is $669.95 and the 4500 is $699.95.

A bit more rugged then I expected. I might have to buy 1 for myself.... :hee:

..I might have to buy 1 for myself.... :hee:

then, you're going to need another rod.

Yeah, and a pistol to hold up the gas station across the street, too...:hihi:

Aw, the hell with it, Pete - go for the whole nine yards and treat yourself well.

You know, no matter how hard you try, you can't take it with you when you go.

And life's just too short to fish with lousy stuff...:smokin:

Pete, any chance you could get an extra spool for the 4500? I spoke with another shop owner that sells Daiwas. He has had the spools on order for one of the Saltigas for almost a year without receiving them. If you can get one, I'll take one!

I'll give them a call today and see what the wait time is. If they have them in stock ready to ship I'll order a couple.

:bsod:

I have an analogy for what calling Daiwa customer service is like, but this is a family site so I'll have to edit it.

Like a monkey !#&%ing a football. "What reel?" and "a spare spool?"

They're going to call me back in the next few days with a "rough estimate as to when they MIGHT arrive". :confused:

Wow, I can not belive people pay $700.00 for surfcasting reels. Way too rich for my blood. I thought VS were expensive. I have never seen this $700 reel before. Any pictures? I have been telling a co-worker that we should go into buisness and hand make small amounts of high price reels. Maybe all titanium and charge $1000.00 a piece. I am sure someone would buy them. All hand made in the USA. I know Fly guys pay upwards of $700.00 for fly reels and they are even simplier to make than a spinning reel or a conventional reel, really not much to them. If I had the time I think I could make a buisness out of retro fitting upgrade parts for all the reels that are out there now, esp. with all the complaints with the 1000's of Penn products out there voiced in another post. Probably patent infringement issues involved though. Although I have seen many upgrades for the Penn jigmasters and 112H and 113H. I think Newell made a bunch of stuff and Accurite too. Frames, spools, etc. They just used the guts of the Penn reels and made everything else. Not enough hours in the day though for me at this time in my life. :doh: Paul

Um, someone is waay ahead of you.

Charlton is already making limited edition solid Titanium 8500 fly reels.

The are selling for around ten grand or something silly like that.

PM start with parts for a Nautil....

...Like a monkey !#&%ing a football...

pete, i can't hear you. you say that too softly. i know a guy that puts all of his lungs behind it.

pete, i can't hear you. you say that too softly. i know a guy that puts all of his lungs behind it.

You know a guy small in size but large on stature and beer cunsumability :hihi:

Billy - the Nautil might have been OK if they didn't make it out of plastic :hihi:

PM - I was thinking ceramic / carbon fiber / aluminum. Ceramics are now use in engine blocks - certainly durable, carbon fiber - might be a beyotch to work with, aluminun - that's all you... But I figure we have enough engineers and metalurgists here to hammer out a design that would have have long casting, simplicity (how simple is a VS?), and high dunkability and high survivability - whaddya say guys. Us irrelevants start up our own reel company? Call them PBR's :hihi: Purpouse Built Reel Co?

"Grab a PBR and wet a line" :doh: :tm:

"Grab a PBR and wet a line" :doh: :tm:

Am I the only one thinking Pabst Blue Ribbon? :buds: :gu: :spin: :usd: :bo:

nope !!! I started on PBJ and PBR ( really Hulls beer )

No.... I remember PBR well. At least I think I do :-) There's a guy up here who build custom one off fly reels out of titanium. Carbon fiber disc drags. They're like jewels. I didn't ask how much....

Am I the only one thinking Pabst Blue Ribbon? :buds: :gu: :spin: :usd: :bo:

That's why I used that name sillyhead (got that one from my son :bl2: )...

Once, years ago, when Schoolie Monster and I were going to strike it rich building fishing rods ( :doh: ) we figured we'd name it PBR rods to fit in with the Jersey to Carolina crowd....

I give up. I'm drawing the line at the one Van Staal reel I own. I have a humble Penn 706 as a backup.

If the VS croaks or otherwise fails me, I will blow it up at the local rifle range on the 200 yard line with a very large caliber rifle (.50 BMG might do it). :wall:

I wouldn't go with the Aluminum. It is so yesterday and besides I am having a terrible time figuring out how to put a finish on it with another project I am attempting :smash: . Hard coat anodizing is really the only way to go, $$$., and very limited colors. Regular anodizing just won't hold up. Titanium is the way to go. Light, corrosion resistant,ultra strong, and you can anodize it if you want to. Downside $$$$$$$$ material cost, bitch to work with as far as machining and tool wear thus expensive labor cost's. Most everything I make at work for the last 8 or so years is made out of Titanium. All oceanographic stuff. You can't kill the stuff. I have seen it after several years at sea and no wear. Would make a great fishing reel but cost you 1200.00 bucks. At least that is what I would charge :D I figure if you are crazy enough to spend $700 you will spend $1200. Maybe someday when I get my own cellar shop set up I will take an old great reel and see if i can copy it out titanium with all the upgrades everyone wants. All I need is money and spare time :biglaugh: Paul

PM, if you made a nice titanium roller that fit on the 704, 706 and the slammers, you could retire :D

If any of you guys are serious about getting something going with a retrofit of Penns, PM me. I know people.....

I am ready to retire :D

Professor M,

If you ever make an all titanium Saltiga knock off..... I'm your first customer. I'll pay the $1200.00 !!

Whoa now. I have never even seen one of these units yet. I am just thinking out loud. I probably would need a whole year just to sit down and look at the logistics. The actual making of the initial one could take another year, and that is if you could work full time doing it. That is the problem doing that type of stuff it takes many hours you can't rush. Making a solid body out of raw stock to copy a cast part would be very very time consuming. You wouldn't belive the engineering that goes onto something like that. Copying a conventional reel would be a little easier because of the body shape but still difficult. I think something along the lines of making better upgrades to existing reels out there now would be a better choice for someone like me to attempt. Problem is I have no where to do this other than work and I don't think the boss would be too thrilled with that, but I am trying to do something about that for the future. Paul

Um, someone is waay ahead of you.

Charlton is already making limited edition solid Titanium 8500 fly reels.

The are selling for around ten grand or something silly like that.

I paid $650 for .8 signature series about 7 or 8 years ago. The price is now $850. I should have bought few more at that time. :gu: :gu:

I have a 1.2 with a few spare spools (in excellent condition) that I'd be willing to part with for a reasonable price.

Over a year ago, I viewed and read a total breakdown of a Saltiga and VS by a mechanically inclined person(an engineer). There were step by step photos with the critique. I wont get into the details of the VS breakdown because I dont want to rekindle Van Staal Wars.

Basically the Saltiga got good grades overall, not perfect, but very good. The breakdown was technically beyond my scope of understanding so some of it made sense and some of it had no significance to me. Nevertheless, a good read! :kewl:

Whoa now. I have never even seen one of these units yet. I am just thinking out loud. I probably would need a whole year just to sit down and look at the logistics. The actual making of the initial one could take another year, and that is if you could work full time doing it. That is the problem doing that type of stuff it takes many hours you can't rush. Making a solid body out of raw stock to copy a cast part would be very very time consuming. You wouldn't belive the engineering that goes onto something like that. Copying a conventional reel would be a little easier because of the body shape but still difficult. I think something along the lines of making better upgrades to existing reels out there now would be a better choice for someone like me to attempt. Problem is I have no where to do this other than work and I don't think the boss would be too thrilled with that, but I am trying to do something about that for the future. Paul

This, I think, is part of the reason why these reels are expensive. Time=money or so the saying goes. Making these reels (even if it's not entirely out of titanium) is harder then it looks.

Over a year ago, I viewed and read a total breakdown of a Saltiga and VS by a mechanically inclined person(an engineer). There were step by step photos with the critique. I wont get into the details of the VS breakdown because I dont want to rekindle Van Staal Wars.

Basically the Saltiga got good grades overall, not perfect, but very good. The breakdown was technically beyond my scope of understanding so some of it made sense and some of it had no significance to me. Nevertheless, a good read! :kewl:

I wonder if the engineer was a surfcaster. I'd love to read that article.

I've always felt part of the reason the Penn Z series work so well in the surf is because they aren't as perfectly engineered as many of the various imports. If a little corrosion or wear through lots of use changes the tolerances inside a bit the reel couldn't care less. A few grains of sand inside? No big deal. Built in tolerance for abuse in the suds.

If the same thing happens to most other reels all hell breaks loose. Plus all those vulnerable bearings. Number one corrosion spot I see in both spin reels and fly reels that come into the shop are the ball bearings. Either hide them deep inside your reel (VS) or don't use many of them (Penn). Anything else is just asking for bearing failure in a reel used by surfcasters.

Here is the link to that in depth review/comparison of the Saltiga, Van Staal, and Stella:

http://www.stripersonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb_547C/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/27148.html

I hope this link doesn't break any rules.

Here is the link to that in depth review/comparison of the Saltiga, Van Staal, and Stella:

http://www.stripersonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb_547C/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/27148.html

I hope this link doesn't break any rules.

i'm fine with it joe, thanks. good info

can't understand why those penn 500 series are still around...... :bl2:

Thanks for digging up that old thread; after reading it I do sort of remember that post. It's good I guess.

It's like I tell customers trying to decide between various flyrods though; it's not what modulus graphite it's built of, it's the end result and how it casts. You can pour all the best engineering you want into a reel it won't necessarily make it a great surf reel.

A example of that is the thin titanium lip on a lot of these reels and the fat lip of "the reel with the historic internal spool design (AkA: trouble maker)". Is the thin lip higher performance? Tough to say, the reel manufacturers tell me so and the writer of that article is of the same mind.

I'll take that fat, tough lip on the rocks any day though even if I lose a few feet on my cast. I've had to sand down the lip on one of my VS's from bouncing it off the rocks so hard and I've done it to several others as well. The same abuse would result in the need for a new spool on most "modern" reels. Ideally you don't fall and bang your $600 reel off the rocks of course, but it happens... :doh:

Especially for the surf I've always tried to find gear that will just leave me alone and let me fish. I don't want to agressively maintain it or have to worry about it (or myself) doing something stupid in the middle of the night. Aquaskinz and the new VS plug bags are a perfect example; the tubes won't break from overloading or falling on them, the stitching is built for a lifetime, and most importantly they've got GREAT velcro that won't fly open and throw all your favorite plugs into the waves when you get hit by one.

I think I'm done getting riled up about surf reels. For now. :hee: I guess it always has my interest since I often get to see the results of reels used hard in the surf when they come back to me to be serviced or sent in for service.

I agree with Pete G. Time equals money. Quality equals time, and it definitely is a hell of a lot harder than it looks. I understand why they cost so much after seeing up close the workmanship of a VS at the MSBA show. Very impressive. I do not have a problem with them charging that much. I am sure they have a lot of R+D money to recoup. To my eye it is a beautiful piece of workmanship and engineering but still too expensive for a machinist to afford :hs:.I do think some of the quality aspects of those expensive reels can be adapted and retrofitted to the lesser priced more abundant reels out there now. I guess we will just have to see if it is possible. Good discussion. Paul

how much drag does the standard saltiga 4500 make vs. the saltiga blast 4500? my blast maxes at just under 30 lbs, i'm curious to know.
p.s. these small saltigas will be killer bft reels with 40 lb. power pro and a 20-30 lb. cape fear :skulz:

how much drag does the standard saltiga 4500 make vs. the saltiga blast 4500? my blast maxes at just under 30 lbs, i'm curious to know.
p.s. these small saltigas will be killer bft reels with 40 lb. power pro and a 20-30 lb. cape fear :skulz:

both offer 22lbs of drag

the blast doesn't have all the bells and whistles such as the cam driven ball bearing supported oscillation, waterproof knob, drag, and gear box, and it also doesn't have a titanium twist buster line roller.

once you get into the 5000 series they boost the drag rating to 66 pounds...

you can all find the mechanical differences here

SALTIGA-BLAST 4500 (http://www.plat.co.jp/img-data/parts/blast4500.pdf)

SALTIGA-Z 4500 (http://www.plat.co.jp/img-data/parts/saltiga4500.pdf)

Those are some pretty insane drag numbers. I feel like something would break first. :huh:

I'm not sure how they're measuring the drag, but I usually test drags with the reel on the rod. I've seen more then a few spin reels get into the teens, only one or two of which I'd actually consider usable and smooth in that range.

My VS200 and 250 can develop drag pressure into the upper teens, but they start to get a little jerky then. Low teens is smooth. If the Saltiga 4500 can develop 20+ pounds of drag on a rod and be smooth while doing it I'll be impressed. A BFT killer for sure rhodyflyguy. I wish I didn't misplace the pics of my Stella 6000's drag after several BFT encounters though. There was nothing left of the drag stack but metal drag washers and some fur from the destroyed felt washers. Maybe they've finally made an improvement, but the previous generation Stellas had the same drag as the Spheros.

I'll have to take a few minutes tomorrow to do some testing... :D