It takes us all to make this country what it is, and I generally don't get this carried away, but I hear and read so many things about Bush and Iraq and what the liberal element would do or would not have done, I get upset when only one side of the story is out there. I have become as I get older more conservative certainly as most people do. But as you read this keep in mind I voted for Ted Kennedy last time, because he was the best man for the job.

The following is from remarks made by Senator John Glenn

1. During the month of January...There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq. In Detroit there were 35 murders during the month of January. In only one major american city, it was almost as deadly as entire war in the country of Iraq.
2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following: FDR...led us into world war II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,00 amercian lives were lost, or an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman...finished the war and then started one with Korea. North Korea never attacked us! From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, and average of 18,334 a year.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 a year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without U.N. or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama Bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan. Clinton did nothing. Osama has now attacked us on multiple occasions.
3. In two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
Some citizens are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...it took less time to take Iraq tha it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
We've been looking for evidence of chemical weaponsin Iraq for less time than it took Hilliary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd infantry division and the marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaqui#^&#^&#^&#^&, killing a woman.
Wait their is more....

The following is a reply to an extraordinary insult paid to our servicemen and women by Senator Howard Metzenbaum by John Glennn on the senate floor

Some people don't understand why military personel do what they do for a living. The following is an exchange between Senator John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaumand is worth reading. It's a pretty impressive impromptu speech and a good example of one man's explanation of why men and woman in the armed services do what they do for a living.

Monday 26, Jan. 2004 @ 11:13 a.m.

Metzenbaum to Glenn: How can you run for the senate you've never held a real job?

Glenn's reply: I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corp. I served in two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 occasions.

I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine to five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank.

I ask you to go with me, as I went the other day, to a veteran's hospitaland look those men-with their mangled bodies-in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job. You go with me to the space program at Nasa and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom, and Roger Chaffee, and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their dads didn'y hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arligton National Cemetary, where I have more friends buried than I'd care to remember , and you watch those flags waving. You stand there, and think about this nation, and you tell me that those people did not have a real job? I'll tell you Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men-SOME MEN- who held real jobs. and they required a dedication to purpose and a love of country and a dedication to duty that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible. I HAVE HELD A JOB HOWARD. WHAT ABOUT YOU? For those of you to young or who do not know Metzenbaum, he was during world war II an attorney representing the communist party in America

Jane Fonda still sucks.........

FUKK HOWARD METZENBAUM. :af:

I guess I won't care any more when I hear about soldiers deaths - maybe the news shouldn't even cover any soldiers deaths.

Swimmer, while I will agree with some / much of what you say, I would ask you to research further information you read in e-mail, the net, or on "News" sites. Only because most that comes thru e-mail is crap. Unfortunately, someone like O'Rielly ( who IMO is an ass) would take this ball and run with it before looking further. While not an end all be all of confirmation, Snopes.com is pretty good on getting to the bottom of these letters and will even say "don't know" if they don't have the answer. To the best of my knowledge, Snopes is apolitical. I wish more sites were as well.This exchange between Glenn and Metzenbaum apparently did take place, in 1974 in a senate race. It has been attached to the info regarding Iraq but that is debunked on Snopes:

Update: In 2005, someone prefaced the John Glenn/Howard Metzenbaum article with the following item about Iraq. This addendum has nothing to do with John Glenn — it's an anonymous piece that has been floating around the Internet since 2004, but because it has been tacked onto an article about Glenn, readers have been misled into thinking that it is a transcription of something he said:
THE RIGHT PERSPECTIVE:

WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID, Scroll down.

Last updated: 4 March 2005


http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp

Not half as bad as fabricating news for political gain and protecting sources under "free press" like Dan Rather did IMO...I can't watch boneheads like that.

Politics and Religion......I don't discuss them! :cool:

Good piece thanks for sharing...You won't ever see something like that on the news networks. John Glenn is the man for putting that F'ing commie in his place. have that a hole move to china if he wants to be a commie. And take that Fonda bitch with him.

Politics and Religion......I don't discuss them! :cool:

Yeah me neither :hidin:

Good piece thanks for sharing...You won't ever see something like that on the news networks. John Glenn is the man for putting that F'ing commie in his place. have that a hole move to china if he wants to be a commie. And take that Fonda bitch with him.

Monday 26, Jan. 2004 @ 11:13 a.m.
This date is off by THIRTY YEARS

Hopefully you won't see something like that on the news networks because it is VERY MISLEADING. GO to the link and read the rest of the article, while I don't disagree with the premise of what is being said, the article that Swimmer initially posted is not correct. It merges correct information - the dialogue between Glenn and Metzenbaum in 1974 , long before the Iraq war with frabricated sentiment. It is not FACTUAL, it is DISTORTION...

I have color coded for your reading pleasure :tooth:

Blue for TRUE

Red for Tacked On to the e-mail to SEEM like they are John Glenn's remarks but they really are not...

The following is from remarks made by Senator John Glenn

1. During the month of January...There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq. In Detroit there were 35 murders during the month of January. In only one major american city, it was almost as deadly as entire war in the country of Iraq.
2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following: FDR...led us into world war II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,00 amercian lives were lost, or an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman...finished the war and then started one with Korea. North Korea never attacked us! From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, and average of 18,334 a year.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 a year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without U.N. or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama Bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan. Clinton did nothing. Osama has now attacked us on multiple occasions.
3. In two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
Some citizens are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...it took less time to take Iraq tha it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
We've been looking for evidence of chemical weaponsin Iraq for less time than it took Hilliary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd infantry division and the marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaqui#^&#^&#^&#^&, killing a woman.
Wait their is more....

The following is a reply to an extraordinary insult paid to our servicemen and women by Senator Howard Metzenbaum by John Glennn on the senate floor

Some people don't understand why military personel do what they do for a living. The following is an exchange between Senator John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaumand is worth reading. It's a pretty impressive impromptu speech and a good example of one man's explanation of why men and woman in the armed services do what they do for a living.

Monday 26, Jan. 2004 @ 11:13 a.m. This part is false - these remarks from Glenn to Metzenbaum were in 1974

Metzenbaum to Glenn: How can you run for the senate you've never held a real job?

Glenn's reply: I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corp. I served in two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 occasions.

I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine to five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank.

I ask you to go with me, as I went the other day, to a veteran's hospitaland look those men-with their mangled bodies-in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job. You go with me to the space program at Nasa and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom, and Roger Chaffee, and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their dads didn'y hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arligton National Cemetary, where I have more friends buried than I'd care to remember , and you watch those flags waving. You stand there, and think about this nation, and you tell me that those people did not have a real job? I'll tell you Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men-SOME MEN- who held real jobs. and they required a dedication to purpose and a love of country and a dedication to duty that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible. I HAVE HELD A JOB HOWARD. WHAT ABOUT YOU? For those of you to young or who do not know Metzenbaum, he was during world war II an attorney representing the communist party in America

:buds: :rotfl:

typical republican propaganda and all the sheep bahhh in its glory.


so when is Rove going to be fired??????? :bshake:

Fonda was great in barberella.... have i metioned that yet?? :hihi:

I dont care when the quotes were said....Wether from yesterday or 30 years ago. It was VERY well said regardless. And i did read that link thank you. Thats pretty sttupid whoever tried to combine those but even as seperate quotes they are fantastic and well said.

Fonda was great in barberella.... have i metioned that yet?? :hihi:[/QUOTE]

She's still a traitor and a commie

John,
I'll chastise my 80 yr. old aunt in Oregon for not checking Snopes first before forwarding it to me. I'll bet that crafty old gal was the one who changed the dates. 1974 or 2004, my only point was that certain people/politicians are using certain aspects of the war, including how many soldiers are being killed or injured, in a fashion that does not show those soldiers respect. It is unconscionable to me regardless of your background and beliefs to treat armed forces personel with anything but the utmost in respect, and using them for any personel or political gain deserves our complete and total condemnation. In restrospect I suppose that I was forcing the issue between conservatives and liberals. I do apologise for not checking SNOPES.COM though, but until you informed me of that web site I had no knowledge it existed. I wonder how many members check snopes.com?

In retrospect the first quote, that starts "during the month of," never mentioned any date other than the day I received it from Oregon. I wonder if all of those can be attributed to Glenn but over a period of time, or not attributed to him at all?

How about the real other side of the story...how much disrespect we show the troops when we send them to war on half-truths, don't give them the equipment they need, don't match their training to the mission and then cut VA benefits when they return.

It's one parallel between Iraq and Vietnam that has many Americans including myself steamed :lossinit:

-spence

Don't chastise your Aunt and I'm not chastising you. I'm just getting depressed watching people of ALL political bends twisting things as they know that these e-mails will get forwarded and forwarded without verification. Plus, if someone hears the same thing time and time it eventually becomes the "truth" eh?

Like I said, I don't disagree with much of what was said but it is truly a disservice to Americans to read this as John Glenn's speach in March of whatever. It gives a valididty to this "email" that it does not deserved. Whether the message is right or wrong, you, me, and others have been DUPED to propogate it. So is OK to propogate something that is incorrect even if the sentiment of the document may be true? Is it OK to package a bit of pure truth in wrappers of partial and non truths? See, this is what I am saying. Those, of ALL political bends, are really doing a disservice. I don't know, maybe I am naive, but doesn't it seem like the lies and mistruths - from BOTH sides have gotten worse in the past 10 years or so? Or am I just paying more attention?

John,
I'll chastise my 80 yr. old aunt in Oregon for not checking Snopes first before forwarding it to me. I'll bet that crafty old gal was the one who changed the dates. 1974 or 2004, my only point was that certain people/politicians are using certain aspects of the war, including how many soldiers are being killed or injured, in a fashion that does not show those soldiers respect. It is unconscionable to me regardless of your background and beliefs to treat armed forces personel with anything but the utmost in respect, and using them for any personel or political gain deserves our complete and total condemnation. In restrospect I suppose that I was forcing the issue between conservatives and liberals. I do apologise for not checking SNOPES.COM though, but until you informed me of that web site had no knowledge it existed. I wonder how many members check snopes.com?

In retrospect the first quote, that starts "during the month of," never mentioned any date other than the day I received it from Oregon. I wonder if all of those can be attributed to Glenn but over a period of time, or not attributed to him at all?

..
A little snippit :D


"Reactionary concepts plus revolutionary emotion result in Fascist mentality."
_Wilhelm Reich

One element shared by all fascist movements, racialist or not, is the apparent lack of consistent political principle behind the ideology_political opportunism in the most basic sense. One virtually unique aspect of fascism is its ruthless drive to attain and hold state power. On that road to power, fascists are willing to abandon any principle to adopt an issue more in vogue and more likely to gain converts.

*snip....

Fascism and Nazism as ideologies involve, to varying degrees, some of the following hallmarks:

*** Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission.

*** Aggressive militarism even to the extent of glorifying war as good for the national or individual spirit.


*** Authoritarian reliance on a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to an electorate.

*** Cult of personality around a charismatic leader.

*** Reaction against the values of Modernism, usually with emotional attacks against both liberalism and communism.

*** Exhortations for the homogeneous masses of common folk (Volkish in German, Populist in the U.S.) to join voluntarily in a heroic mission_often metaphysical and romanticized in character.

*** Dehumanization and scapegoating of the enemy_seeing the enemy as an inferior or subhuman force, perhaps involved in a conspiracy that justifies eradicating them.

*** The self image of being a superior form of social organization beyond socialism, capitalism and democracy.

*** Elements of national socialist ideological roots, for example, ostensible support for the industrial working class or farmers; but ultimately, the forging of an alliance with an elite sector of society.

*** Abandonment of any consistent ideology in a drive for state power.


I dunno... i see a lot of this stuff these days right here in the good Ol USA :huh:

..
A little snippit :D


"Reactionary concepts plus revolutionary emotion result in Fascist mentality."
_Wilhelm Reich

One element shared by all fascist movements, racialist or not, is the apparent lack of consistent political principle behind the ideology_political opportunism in the most basic sense. One virtually unique aspect of fascism is its ruthless drive to attain and hold state power. On that road to power, fascists are willing to abandon any principle to adopt an issue more in vogue and more likely to gain converts.

*snip....

Fascism and Nazism as ideologies involve, to varying degrees, some of the following hallmarks:

*** Nationalism and super-patriotism with a sense of historic mission.

*** Aggressive militarism even to the extent of glorifying war as good for the national or individual spirit.


*** Authoritarian reliance on a leader or elite not constitutionally responsible to an electorate.

*** Cult of personality around a charismatic leader.

*** Reaction against the values of Modernism, usually with emotional attacks against both liberalism and communism.

*** Exhortations for the homogeneous masses of common folk (Volkish in German, Populist in the U.S.) to join voluntarily in a heroic mission_often metaphysical and romanticized in character.

*** Dehumanization and scapegoating of the enemy_seeing the enemy as an inferior or subhuman force, perhaps involved in a conspiracy that justifies eradicating them.

*** The self image of being a superior form of social organization beyond socialism, capitalism and democracy.

*** Elements of national socialist ideological roots, for example, ostensible support for the industrial working class or farmers; but ultimately, the forging of an alliance with an elite sector of society.

*** Abandonment of any consistent ideology in a drive for state power.


I dunno... i see a lot of this stuff these days right here in the good Ol USA :huh:

Think China *wink*