so let me get this straight... Bush says a few months ago that when they find out who the people were who leaked the information about the CIA operative, they would be fired. Now we find out his top aid is actually one of the people involved and bush isnt going to fire him.

Sounds to me like bush lied to the public...................what am i missing??/

Here we go! :lurk:

G.W. didn't lie. He just didn't have all his facts straight. The man didn't violate any laws or guidelines to warrant firing or criminal action to be taken. :hidin:

There is debate as to if Rove really leaked Her name, and if He did, did He know she was an undercover agent. At this point there isn't enough public info so say for sure, but it's looking like things are fuzzy enough they may have difficulty pinning Rove on this charge.

On the other hand, clearly the Whitehouse has been saying for 2 years that nobody in the Admin was involved, which by Rove's own lawyer turns out not to be true...If Bush holds to his word Rove should go on this alone.

There are other charges of fraud and using His position for political gain that could cause an indictment. There's a reasonable chance this may happen.

The GOP strategy here is to deny, delay and hope some news story takes the media spotlight off this...but given Rove's profile and reputation I wouldn't expect it if I were them.

Seeing that the investigation is still going on, and that people are going to jail over it...I'd wager something very serious did occur...and Rove and perhaps other Whitehouse officials were involved.

This could explode very soon.

-spence

:lurk:

this is simple... bush said he would fire anyone involved and Rove is involved... case closed...

hypocrits....on both sides of the aisle...

Eben, I get the impression that you just don't like Bush, and is looking for anything that would make him look bad to the rest of us!!!!

Larry, pass some of that popcorn over here will ya? :lurk:

Sure BigBo.....pass the salt please? :lurk: Thanks....yeah thats good! I like these seats......the show is starting a little slow but it promises to get better when Beachwalker shows up in the next scene! :laughs: I also hear Swimmer makes a cameo! :hihi:

Eben, I get the impression that you just don't like Bush, and is looking for anything that would make him look bad to the rest of us!!!!

he lied. :huh: yes, I cant stand the guy and he has all of you duped. he fools you by thinking your going to pay less taxes by lowering yoru income tax rate and in the long run we are all going to pay far more.. look at oil prices you pay a % of that prices in taxes so you are paying more fuel taxes. look at rising property values- you are paying more propery tax. The whole thing is a big big lie. Am i the only one that sees this?

The whole thing is a big big lie. Am i the only one that sees this?
Apparently so. We're all a bunch of sheep too stupid to know when we're being duped. :faga: :huh: :whackin:

I don't give a rats buttocks if the person was Janitor Larry or Karl Rove, people operating in the intelligence branches of the US Government must not be given up to any organization without express written legal permission.

These people that work at these agencies can't tell their family what they do, must often take polygraph tests, are constantly put thru interviews to probe what they say and cannot say, and make incredible sacrifice to the families and for their country. The penalty for those that work at these agencies if they fail to uphold operational security is at minimum loss of clearance and/or job and maximum prison, unless of course in time of war where I suppose you can still be shot (though just expect a lengthy prison stay).

They say loose lips sink ships, with these people it is their work, sometimes national security and in the worst cases, their lives. This tenet is and should always be APOLITICAL. Not to be violated by anyone and certainly not to be used in politics or "leaks". If so, where does it stop to become a political "tool" and become harzardous to the operative or the country?

Whether Karl Rove or Janitor Larry, NO PERSON, citizen, or government official has the "power" to get away with circumventing this most basic need of anonymity in these branches of the D.O.D.

Even if Rove did not break the "law", and that will be determined in time, he should resign his position out of deference to those that really have laid their ass on the line. He broke the "honor code" with these people. Sorry - this one really burns my a$$

I must put the popcorn down for a moment....I must agree with Eben in that the Government only tells you what they want you to hear......you think they are truthful? I don't! I believe very little of what the government tells the public, so mostly I ignore it! :cool: Can I have the popcorn back now? :lurk:

Apparently so. We're all a bunch of sheep too stupid to know when we're being duped. :faga: :huh: :whackin:

nope.. not too stupid, just not paying close attention :cool:

Even if Rove did not break the "law", and that will be determined in time, he should resign his position out of deference to those that really have laid their ass on the line. He broke the "honor code" with these people. Sorry - this one really burns my a$$


Exactly!!!!! heads have rolled for less. IMO this is more worse than Clinton's Lewinski affair. We're talking national security here, not an oval office BJ...

It is pretty amazing how the GOP is doing everything in their power to make this an angry Democratic smear.

I guess we should forget that someone in the Administration did out an undercover agent to discredit Amb. Wilson.

I guess we should forget that Wilson's beef against the Administration was about Bush making statements about Iraqi WMD they had zero evidence for?

Argue the details all you want, the substance of the case hasn't changed.

-spence

These people that work at these agencies can't tell their family what they do, must often take polygraph tests, are constantly put thru interviews to probe what they say and cannot say, and make incredible sacrifice to the families and for their country.

Some serious politics going on here. It's widely known that the state department and the CIA are full of political appointees from several administrations; not necessairly loyal to the present one. Someone in the agency has given permission for a 22 year CIA veteran to write and publish a book which is highly critical of the Bush administration.

I agree with a poster above. I think Rove will resign. It's unfortunate, but I think the president jumped the gun on this one.

In the grand scheme of things this isn't much more than a ruffle on the surface of the water.

Oooo....oooo......can I have some popcorn to...?? :lurk:

I love it when Dems and GOPs start yelling at each other and blaming each other.....great theater.....it's like the Hatfields and McCoys.....neither side is bright enough to see that both sides are "slime".

"Define Lie" :lurk:

Oooo....oooo......can I have some popcorn to...?? :lurk:

I love it when Dems and GOPs start yelling at each other and blaming each other.....great theater.....it's like the Hatfields and McCoys.....neither side is bright enough to see that both sides are "slime".

Thay all suck. :tooth:

Name me 5 Apolitical:

News Sources

Senators

Reps

Major National Figures

I'm not saying that the guy shouldn't resign his position or that what he did was right. I was merely stating that there wasn't much they could pin on him.
Believe me, I'm not to effin pleased with a lot that G.W. has done. I just don't think that this is one of those situations that he be criticized over.

he fools you by thinking your going to pay less taxes by lowering yoru income tax rate and in the long run we are all going to pay far more..

look at oil prices you pay a % of that prices in taxes so you are paying more fuel taxes.

look at rising property values- you are paying more propery tax.

Am i the only one that sees this?

:smokin:

1) Rising oil prices should be blamed on China & India (driving up demand), the latest hurricane which has hurt supply in the Gulf (bad Wx alone drove oil through $61/bbl), and the a$$hole hedge fund traders who manipulate commodity prices. You can blame Bush for not coming up with an actionable alternative energy strategy (really, though, what can you do in 6 years?), but it's not intellectually honest to blame him for high petroleum prices. It's in the national interest to have low fuel prices - these high fuel prices could trigger a recession.

Also, I don't know about RI, but in the rest of the country, fuel taxes are an absolute level per gallon (both state and federal). How are you paying more fuel taxes? I'd argue that you're paying less, cuz you're likely to be conserving. Also, heating fuel is not taxed at the retail level (it's taxed on a per gallon basis by various state and federal DOT's before it gets delivered to the distributor).

2) Rising property values are a function of fixed supply of real estate, historically low interest rates, a$$holes moving to RI from NY and CT like locusts :hihi: , and, a strong economy. You want to blame Bush for all of that? Also, mil rates and assessed values which go into calculating property tax are determined by the town you live in, not by the White House.

As an aside, if Rove is culpable, he oughta be strung up by his family jewels.

Someone in the agency has given permission for a 22 year CIA veteran to write and publish a book which is highly critical of the Bush administration.
Assuming you're talking about "Imperial Hubrus" I don't see how they can legally stop the Author. It was written as "Anonymous", He doesn't reveal any classified information, and it's not at all a Bush bash book in a partisan sense.

While Bush does take plenty of lumps, it's because our own (former) CIA Bin Laden top expert happens to think Bush is making repeated strategic blunders in the war on terrorisim...

And I'd agree.

-spence

I motion that all political blah blah be put on hold until January when the fishies have swam away.
For awhile I followed politics and was very vocal on these boards, now I can care less.

Its funny hearing the pres. press secr. backpedal as the press keeps asking him to comment and his refusing even though he commented plenty b/f rove's name came out.

Even if what rove did was not illegal (& I don't know how its not illegal to give someone enough info. to figure out who our spies are), shouldn't those working with our governments most secret info. be held to a standard other than if its not a crime, you can do it and come to work tom.

:lurk: :lurk:

Thay all suck. :tooth:

Name me 5 Apolitical:

News Sources

Senators

Reps

Major National Figures

Does Bassmaster count as a major national figure? he seems pretty apolitical.

:lurk: :gu:

Palast part 2 for the day. :D

MR. ROVE AND THE ACCESS OF EVIL
Tell us your "source," Judy
Not published in The New York Times
Tuesday, July 12, 2005

By Greg Palast

The only thing more evil, small-minded and treasonous than the Bush Administration's jailing Judith Miller for a crime the Bush Administration committed, is Judith Miller covering up her Bush Administration "source."

Judy, Karl Rove ain't no "source." A confidential source -- and I've worked with many -- is an insider ready to put himself on the line to blow the whistle on an official lie or hidden danger. I would protect a source's name with my life and fortune as would any journalist who's not a craven jerk (the Managing Editor of Time Magazine comes to mind).

But the weasel who whispered "Valerie Plame" in Miller's ear was no source. Whether it was Karl Rove or some other Rove-tron inside the Bush regime (and no one outside Bush's band would have had this information), this was an official using his official info to commit a crime for the sole purpose of punishing a real whistleblower, Joseph Wilson, Plame's husband, for questioning our President's mythological premise for war in Iraq.

New York Times reporter Miller and her paper would rather she go to prison for four months than identify their "source." Why?

Part of her oddball defense is that The Times never ran the story about Wilson's wife. They get no points for that. The Times should have run the story with the headline: BUSH OPERATIVE COMMITS FELONY TO PUNISH WHISTLEBLOWER. The lead paragraph should have been, "Today, Mr. K--- R--- [or other slime ball as appropriate] attempted to plant sensitive intelligence information on The New York Times, a felony offense, in an attempt to harm former Ambassador Joseph Wilson who challenged the President's claim regarding Iraq's nuclear program."

A Karl Rove or Rove-like creature peddling a back-door smear doesn't make him a source. Miller's real crime is not concealing a source, but burying the story. A reporter should never, ever give notes to a grand jury, but this information is something The Times owes the public, not the prosecutors.

Why didn't The Times run this story? Why not now? Who are they covering for and why?

Maybe the problem for The Times is that this is the same "source" that used Miller to promote, as fact, her ersatz report before the invasion of Iraq that Saddam truly had nukes and bugs and chemicals he could launch at Los Angeles. That "source" too needs publication, Judy.

Every rule has an exception. My mama always told me to compliment the chef at dinner. But that doesn't apply when the chef pees in your soup. Likewise, there's an exception to the rule of source protection. When officialdom uses "you-can't-use-my- name" to cover a lie, the official is not a source, but a disinformation propagandist -- and Miller and The Times have been all too willing to play Izvestia to the Bush's Kremlinesque prevarications.

And that is what Miller is protecting: the evil called "access."

The great poison in the corpus of American journalism is the lust for tidbits of supposedly "inside" information which is more often than not inside misinformation parading as hot news.

And thus we have Miller s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g on the steaming sewage pipe of White House lies about Iraq and spitting it out in the pages of The Times as "investigative reporting," for which The Times has apologized. Likewise, we had the embarrassment of Bob Woodward's special access to the Oval Office after the September 11 attacks when Woodward reported the exclusive news that the President was a flawless commander in chief in the war on terror -- for which Woodward has yet to apologize.

While reporting from the Potemkin village of decision-making set up for him at the White House, Woodward missed the real story that, in the words of the Downing Street memo, our leaders were losing track of Osama while they spent their time "fixing the intelligence" on Iraq. Even if Woodward learned of it, would he have reported it at the risk of losing his access to evil?

As Karl Rove chuckles and Judy does time, we are left to ask, What are Miller and The New York Times doing: protecting the name of a source or covering up their conduit to the Bush gang's machinery of deception?

One can only be sympathetic to Miller for choosing jail over bending to the power of the State. But as T.S. Eliot said,

"The last temptation is the greatest treason,
To do the right deed for the wrong reason."

---
Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. Subscribe to his commentaries or view his investigative reports for BBC Television at www.GregPalast.com

:lurk: :gu:

"You should hear what the Dem called your mother, Mr. GOP....."
"Mr. GOP, the Dem said your Momma wears Army boots...."

Fuse lite......let's see the fireworks boys....no fence riders.....blast 'em...let 'em have it.....

All Dems are stupid...
All GOPs are stupid...

Good old fashion schoolyard brawl in Congress....that's what we need, the GOP is on to something by getting Jessie "The Body" Ventura and Arnold "The Terminator" Schwezenagger elected.....I predict a Texas cage death-match coming soon.........may the best party win........... :D :D

Let's get GW's daddy to punch Billery Clinton in the nose.....then we can get Al Gore to pee on #^&#^&#^&#^& Chaney's leg.....yeah....

Yup, Homerun can't take the fight...libber libber libber libber...

:rotf3: :yawn:

-spence

Bring on the fight bro..... :lasso: :wiggle: :laughs:

Homerun = moderate
Libber = dreamer

I don't know anyone who knows me who would EVER think I was liberal.....only in my drinking habits I suppose........... :buds: