Is it really the plovers fault?, or is it the irresponsible human?

I hate picking them damned things out of the tread of my tires. :blush:

Wipe them off the beaches! :ss:

You know whats kind of funny.....what did the plovers do before there were Rangers blocking trails and encircling their nests with chicken wire????? Seems as if we are going against natures way with the plovers.......they are not becoming extinct because of people driving on the beach I can pretty much assure you of that! :cool:

birds will rule the world. you watch. in 10 years they will have the supreme court stacked with boobies and theres already a dodo in the whitehouse. :buds:

Piping Plovers: Sound like bubble wrap.

Sometimes, in the effort to try to do good, they end up making it worse. Some of the fisheries management is the same way.

Taste great when basted in orange glaze ....like roast duckling.....

if ya want to read some really wacked out NPS tactics check out what is going on at Hatteras Island ...........there is only @ 13 miles of beach open ..... :sick:
derf

In my 35+ years driving the beaches, I have never seen a dead, squashed, wounded plover. In that time we've lost Long Point, Wood End, and most of the Back Beach. Those areas alone should be sufficient for plover rookeries. I might be a little slow here, but I'm beginning to think that it's not about plovers at all. It's about keeping us off the beach in vehicles. Starting to feel like the last cowboy here.. Having said that, if not for the CCNS can you imagine what would be left? That's right, nothing but condos! I'm getting real tired of going to beaches that I've gone to all of my 53+ years and hearing some gentrified sack of crap tell me that I'm on a PRIVATE Beach. My answer is always "good, call a cop". Sorry for the rant, but I'm starting to feel pushed around. Write your elected representatives, they're all whores and they will respond to the most pressure.

Plovers close the Beaches only to GET Gobbled up by the Fox, Racoons, Coyotes, and Sea Gulls and who knows what else, From what I heard there are over 3200 pairs and they were happy with 1800 pairs . These Birds are Hunted and are on the Tables in other Countries. With more pairs of these Little Chickens they will up their Bag Limits. :nailem: Its the begining of the end on the Beaches ,No more :ss: on the Beach :wid: .......................... I heard they taste like Chicken, Seems Every year the cost of Permits Rise and More Beach is Closed.

I am in agreement with BBJ and Habs....but hey...if the foxes and coyotes gotta eat, lets close the beaches for the summer and let them plovers get nice and fat so they got some good eatin'! :drool:

Sound like bubblewrap! :bl: :rotfl:

It's a giant waste of time and just another tool for the eco nuts to use to get all vehicles AND fisherman off the beach.

It is not about the Plovers at all... you are right BBJ...as some of you know, I've attended a few hearings and such, regarding beach management over the years.. # of pairs is reached ... they raise the goal, reach that... raise it again... I had a very angry bird society type get in my face after one such meeting at the seashore years ago... at least he was honest... he told me to my face it wasn't about the plover at all... he wants people, yes, he used the word people, not vehicles... off the beach.
They've taken most of it... enjoy it while it lasts.
Talk to some real old folks, if you can find them... they didn't even show on the beaches till sometime in the late fifties.. when the Great Lakes... where they are from, became too hostile for them.....

I like to make a nice stuffing consisting of chorice, breadcrumbs and egg whites. I clean them and then stuff with the aforementioned stuffing. I then pan sear them til golden brown. I finish them in the oven. I then deglaze the pan with lemons and Pouilly Fuissé, and shallots and kiwis to make a light sauce. I then serve the birds over cajun dirty rice. :drool:

birds will rule the world. you watch. in 10 years they will have the supreme court stacked with boobies and theres already a dodo in the whitehouse. :buds:
Cute.. though disrespectful nonetheless. :sick:

That sounds delicious. A nice Pinot Grigio would definately compliment the dish as well. And a nice Cohiba to end it all. :smokin:

My thoughts on those fuzzy little birds are that they are a tool used by grumpy hoity toity types that don't want people on the beach. Well my thoughts of those people are that they should move the hell away from the ocean and mind their own business. The world belongs to our children and our children's children and so on and so on. Take care of it and it will take care of you. Nature is resiliant and those chickens will do fine even if there are irresponsible humans around. I bet they thrive on Nomans island. Maybe I will move there and setup a squatters' cabin to get away from all the do-gooders that take our beach access away.

That sounds delicious. A nice Pinot Grigio would definately compliment the dish as well. And a nice Cohiba to end it all. :claps: :drool:

Cohiba's are like little slices of heaven... :hihi:

Talk to some real old folks, if you can find them... they didn't even show on the beaches till sometime in the late fifties.. when the Great Lakes... where they are from, became too hostile for them.....


really? so this isn't even their natural habitat? send them packing to the great lakes- and close them!

It's not about the birds. it's about us driving on the beach. And it's not the fishermen who are creating the problem. The reason the Feds changed the permit system was because of the excessive demand.

Now, do you think that all of sudden there were 25,000 new surf fishermen? No, the problem is that there are now more SUVs than there ever were before so every nitwit with 4WD wants to "run the beach". 99% don't even own a rod.

I stopped going to the Back in 2003 when there was no place to park between where you get on and the Mission Bell at 10 in the morning in August during the week. there were sunshades, grills, tube floats, rubber duckys, cabanas etc. Not the Backbeach I ran for 30 years. Let em have it. I find fish in RI. Just gotta fish harder.

my thought on plovers.........

%$%$%$%$ them little mother %$%$%$%$ers

Throwing timber, that dish sounds good, although it sounds like something you would get on Nantucket for $49.95 a dish.

Hmmmm the lovely Plover. You guys hit it right on the head in my opinion, it's not about the plovers. The problem is a few bad apple surfcasters are ruining it for everybody. One eco nut takes his morning walk on the beach, sees a few discarded beer cans and plastic bait bags and maybe some fishing line strewn accross the beach, has a fit, and get's his bird-loving buddies in there to close off the beach to the surfcasters. I think Bob maybe started this thread to start a discussion about how poeple dirty up the beach a lot. (Bob by all means, correct me if I am wrong). It is true that a lot of surfcasters litter the hell out of the beach, go to the river mouth of PI to see proof. Or course, I know nobody on this board would ever dream of littering or driving on dunes or anything like that, but the truth is those people are out there and proceed to get the brid lovers severly pissed off!

Then there is the fact that the PITA types just don't want anybody fishing because they think it is "cruel" and that I am sure is a BIG part of it also.

Piemma, just read your post, good point there. I'm sure tons of poeple just drive the beach cause they are too damn lazy to walk on with some beach chairs for a day in the sun!! Those fools are taking away from the poeple that REALLY benefit from driving the beach, US.

Well Don, it ain't that easy :D.. Molly Benjamin wrote an article about all that several years ago in the CC times.. it ain't just the plover, (all varieties of them), they will mention Least Terns, Roseate Terns. all shore birds, basically...
Funny thing is, I asked once... how come the bathing beach, (Nauset) in front of the parking lot, is never closed to plovers.. the answer, and it would be funny, if it were not ridiculous...the plovers will only nest where there is tire tracks.. they look for them :tm:
Piemma. you make some great points.. the biggest thing is the easy availability of 4 wheel drive, creating the crowds... I told the beach manager at Nauset, last year, to only allow 2 wheel drive vehicles on the beach.. he looked horrified... I told him no, don't be... it'll scare off the suv crowd, and you will have the guys (fishermen, and old school beach goers) who know how to drive on the beach, as the only ones left... he thought about it and smiled... he said he liked it, but it wouldn't fly.....

Just curious why they don't do what they do at the Plum Island Refuge for drive-ons. Fisherman only - There has to be 1 fishing rod per person in the vehicle to drive on, no exceptions. Of course you get the occasional knucklehead w/ the snoopy rod but I would think that would cut down on a lot of the SUV sunbathers that head out.

I know there is probably a lot more to it but I was just wondering.

I worked for the trustess of reservations on MV at Long Point Reservation one summer. I'm also an avid Surf Fisherman. So I have kinda seen both sides of the spectrum. We did not have any plover problem at long point but I did see a couple nests over at Nashweena on a property managed by the trustess. You honestly would not see the thing unless you walked a foot every few seconds while staring at the ground. The parts that are roped off, I'm sorry to say, are roped off because you might step on a plover or plover nest and not even know it. That said these birds pretty much go between the nest and the water and thats about all. So often more beach is closed off than nessesary. The hard sand near the surfs edge experiences much more change from waves than the occational korker foot print. I honestly believe in many cases that surf fisherman and birds can go exist. And both the naturalist's and 4x4 users must realize they have to concede something.

The coyote and skunk problem I think may be a larger issue. I don't think any one here hasnt encountered the striped cats while roaming the beaches at night. They are getting more and more populated every year and have few natural predators especially out on the islands. (may be we should get into skunk hunting for recreation)

While the summer months have over crowded beaches and non fishing beach bums the fishing is also not as good especially during the day. I can't tell you how many idots I saw that summer. Parents let their kids run all over the dunes and I caught one guy digging out a dune to make a fire pit for a huge BBQ party he had planned that evening. Generally in September and October the beach that I ride on has many areas open up that were previously closed. So you get better fishing, less crowds and more beach access.

I don't think there is a right answer to this problem. The naturalist have too much political support and law support systems where the Surf Fishermen don't have anything.

I'm actually more angry over Yuppie land owners who threaten to call the cops because your standing in 2 feet of water at three in the morning (disrupting the plankton) But i'll save that for another thread.

I will eat their livers with fava beans...and maybe some gum! :vamp: Nah... I think they're worth saving, as any species is, but there's gotta be a better way to go about it. All the birdy people should get together and brainstorm on how to fix the plover issue while keeping our public beaches open for vehicle access. You'd think that with the way laws and organic acts are written now, that the economic benefit from oversand vehicles and beach access would far outweigh the existence of the plover, and that we wouldn't even be dealing with the problem of restrictions and beach closures -- we'd just have another dodo on our hands.

The reason the birds do not nest at the swimming beaches at Race POint and Nauset is more than likely they (the beach managers ) shoo the birds away before they get a chance to set up house keeping.