Question for the Experts.

I just did up a bunch of spooks. They are red cedar and they were sealed w/ the 60-40 mix. I let them sit for about 8-9 days after sealing them and they seemed fine. I then primed them w/ the Rustoleum Painters Touch primer. Half of them were fine and the other 1/2 remained tacky for days. They were all sealed at the same time in the same mix and allowed to dry the same amount of time, they were also sprayed w/ the same can of primer.

Any idea what could have caused this? And can they be salvaged? I had a couple of poppers in the mix that came out pissah and they have the same problem. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

stick them on wax paper the dashboard of the car, for one of those 95 degree days. if that don't bake them dry nothin will.

i know you let them sit forever, but it sounds like the sealer isn't dry.

not tryin to a smart a$$, but if you place any oil soaked plug in the sun to dry, all it will do is draw any non-dry oil in the wood out to the surface making more of a mess.....they'll be little beads of gooie oil all over your primer......wipe the plug's down with wil=bond and let dry for however long it's take's,,then prime again.........I found rust..painter's touch primer acts funny, so it's not used anymore.

I agree with Capesams on the Painters Touch. I had more problems than it is worth.

Bernzy

wondering what are You seelin ya plugs with?
I store mine in my cave it gets hot in there and i dont look at them for 2 weeks

I'm sealing with 60/40 Linseed Oil/Mineral Spirits.

CS What is Wilbond? What I did w/ a couple of them was to sand off the tacky primer and I'm letting them sit for a few more days and see if that helps.

If the Rustoleum is garbage what are you guys using to prime'em?

zinsneer coverall

dont dunk them long , i have no problem and your sealer is not dry yet

TDF....linseed oil or "boiled" linseed oil??? :rolleyes:

CS,

What problems did you have with the rustoleum primer? I've used it and dont have any complaints sooo far. :huh:

TDF....linseed oil or "boiled" linseed oil??? :rolleyes:


Boiled Linseed Oil

I just thought it was strange that they were all done at once but only 1/2 of them had the problem

wil-bond is a clear etching/bonding liquid...clean's everything and anything before you paint. if you want to clean metal/wood/plastic/ old paint/etc.etc. before you prime or paint/repaint your item....degreases..deoils...and also has bonding agents in it to help the paint bond better.

If I prime before the sealer is dry like you did, I can use this to wipe the primer off...or if I mess up a paint job on a plug, I can wipe off the paint wet or dry paint without sanding again...I get it from my local lumber yard or town paint and supply.

I also used it to take off the old bottom paint on the boat..no sanding.

I beleive painter's touch is rust-o-leum's low end paint . even the reg. primer doesn't sit well with me...doesn't soak in the wood like house primer's do.....I find the plain flat white rusto works better as a primer.1st. coat get's sanded off for the most part,it's just used as a pore filler...the second coat evens the surface off.....the third lite coat make's it frog a$$ smooth.

I use nothing but reg. rustoleum paints..flat if I can get it in the right color otherwise gloss if forced to because of color choices.

try turpintine in your 60/40 mix instead of mineral spirits.
turp's is a natural thinner made from tree sap...good stuff.
mineral spirits is man made junk..gooy ca- ca, when it dries up in the bottom of a can, it leave's this yellow muck that look like uncooked pancake mix.

I had the same problem last week. I sealed with 60/ 40 mix and let sit for a week and then primed with Kilz. that was a week ago and the primer hasn't dried. I stuck it in the sun for a couple of hours and that didnt help.

I've never had a problem before so maybe the humidity is keeping the sealer from drying. I wouldnt blame it on your primer yet.

I have the same problem with things dryin.I live by the water an the humidity is pretty high all the time U gotta let em dry.Heat does not evaporate oils low humity does I bought a small D-humdity thig for the garage(all my tools where rusting)works well.I use the zinnser (oil) primer.soaks in good an sands nice.

On another note I'm so tired of sealin an waiting, an friggin epoxy finishes. I'm just gonna go back to prime ,paint an some kinda clear outa the can an trashem when the start to soak up too much water.

I'm curious.I've painted every wood known to man for more years than I care to count and am wondering why would you seal the wood with boiled linseed oil?Whether used straight or cut with pure gum tupentine its cure(not dry) time takes forever.Plus primer/paint just doesn't last as long as it could when put over it.For that matter pigmented coatings really aren't meant to be put over it anyway.

Why not just eliminate that step and seal with a quick dry oil base primer like Zinnser CoverStain cut thinly with High Flash naptha.Regular VM&P naptha can be used but with the HF naptha it dries in 5mins and can be sanded 10-15 mins after that.After that use the same primer cut just enough with HF naptha to make it sprayable sand again and proceed as you normally would.Any paint can be applied over CoverStain and it can be tinted.

Massive time saver eliminating the linseed oil and going straight to the primer
cut with HF naptha.

I'm relatively new to plug building and enjoy this particular forum very much. I have started to seal my plugs using Zinsser SealCoat, which is a de-waxed shellac sanding sealer. "De-waxed" is the key here. Contrary to what you may have heard, Shellac is actually one of the most robust and best sealers for wood. Most regular shellac does have some naturally occuring wax content, which can be a problem when putting on top coats of paint or clear. The beauty of this sealar is that it dries in about fifteen minutes. I usually dip three successive coats. Another nice property of shellac, in general, is that each new coat completey bonds to the previous coats because the solvent alcohol partially dissolves the previous coat. Also there is no spontaneous combustion risk. You can apply SealCoat under or over any clear coat. In furniture finishing de-waxed shellac is often used before applying a top coat of varnish or urathane.

But i don't float my funiture in saltwater?? well! kinda...just pullin your leg...I was told by a well known com. plug maker if he was just making home made's, that's what he'd look into to use as a sealer.

MarkM, what are you using for a primer over the Zinsser sealer.?

Just leave a bunch of primer sealed, epoxy sealed, shellac sealed plugs in the ocean 3-4 times. See what happens. You gotta seal properly!
Why go thru all the work of building plugs, just to have them split after a few uses?
Do it once, do it right

MarkM, what are you using for a primer over the Zinsser sealer.?
White water based primer. Initially I used Creatix opaque white. Now I'm using Createx Auto Air white primer, which is very nice. It dries quickly and further seals the plug.

Hey Capesams, now that we're on the sealer topic again, do you see any disadvantages in using an oil/urethane base sealer.:huh:

Your not known as the "Paintmeister" for nothin ya no.:D

But i don't float my funiture in saltwater?? well! kinda...just pullin your leg...I was told by a well known com. plug maker if he was just making home made's, that's what he'd look into to use as a sealer.
Just don't spill your Vodka on the plug until the top coats are on!

MarkM thanks.:btu: Being the seal coat is a zinsser product, have you tried their bin spray as a primer? Has no wax in it either.

I've seen a few guys mention the Val-oil as a sealer....what's the ups and downs of this product? I was checking it out at HD last night while I was looking for the Wil-Bond stuff.

MarkM thanks.:btu: Being the seal coat is a zinsser product, have you tried their bin spray as a primer? Has no wax in it either.
I haven't tried it yet. It's a pigmented shellac, so it should work as well, if not better. Shellac is interesting stuff, here is a link with some good information:
http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/jeff/shellac.htm

Personallly I wouldn't use any shellac product for exterior use.You wouldn't,or
shouldn't for that matter,use it on the trim of your house to seal it before you paint it why would use it on your plugs?

The only guarantee you get with dewaxed shellac is that clear coats will bond with it.

Have you tried reversing the 60/40 ratio? Its not written in stone, you know ;)
Some BLO is better than none..

BW, the only reasons i see it as a primer are ,that it will stick to most any surface including some of the glossy spots left by the sealer that paint might not stick to, and it gives a nice smooth finish over the grain to allow a nice paint application.

Just my 2 cents, the search goes on.:D

I've written this before....anything will stick to an oil base product,,,you can put laytex over oil,,,but you can't put oil on top of laytex,,,you can ,but it'll just peel off cause of the lack of bondage.

wil-bond will degloss just about any shiny surface and prep it for the next coat.

oil/urethane based sealers dry and can be sanded....linseed oil never truly dries..so if one tries to sand it ,,it just become's gooie, same with any laytex based product.

your liquid's from start to finish on anything MUST meld[bond] together with each other if it's to last at all....like auto paint has agents in it so the clearcoat will bond to it....you can put whatever clearcoat on you want,,but if it doesn't melt into the layer below it, all you've done is just put a skin gun on it....it's like nothing more than slipping a sock over your foot,only to slide off later.

I've written this before....anything will stick to an oil base product,,,you can put laytex over oil,,,but you can't put oil on top of laytex,,,you can ,but it'll just peel off cause of the lack of bondage.

wil-bond will degloss just about any shiny surface and prep it for the next coat.

oil/urethane based sealers dry and can be sanded....linseed oil never truly dries..so if one tries to sand it ,,it just become's gooie, same with any laytex based product.

your liquid's from start to finish on anything MUST meld[bond] together with each other if it's to last at all....like auto paint has agents in it so the clearcoat will bond to it....you can put whatever clearcoat on you want,,but if it doesn't melt into the layer below it, all you've done is just put a skin gun on it....it's like nothing more than slipping a sock over your foot,only to slide off later.
I agree with all that Capesams has said above. Perhaps the best thing is to use the linseed oil mixture first, followed by a shellac coat to seal and bond. This is what furniture makers do when they stain, or use oil, on bare wood, and then want to have a hard protective top coat such as lacquer or urathane. The top coats readily bond to the shellac coat. I don't really think of an oil coat as true sealer. A true sealer has to have some kind of resin content, either natural or synthetic, which "plasticizes" when it cures. As Capesams said linseed oil never fully cures. I would think that thinned spar varnish might be a good sealer. Shellac is a natural resin.

You know the more these discussions come up the more confused I get. I do enjoy them but man I get a headache everytime read them. Every time I get to the point where I say OK this is what I will do someone else goes and makes me think about some other way. This is probably why I got 100 plugs turned sitting down cellar with out any type of sealer or finish on them. Suck's being someone who can't make a decision. Guess I should read my little saying below and just do something :fishslap: You know either sh%t or get off the pot. Paul

Paul,
I would be willing to bet, that no two builders on this sight, do everything ion the process, the exact same way. A lot is trial and error, I make plenty of errors, but hopefully learn something from them. I just hope, I am not repeating the same mistake over and over, I'm part Swede, so that is a possibility ;)... But.. yer right, I've been there too, a lot of it is "fear factor" so ya gott chit or get off the pot... I would be willing to bet again, that you will do some amazing finishes, I can sense that from what I've seen of your aluminum work.
Dive on in, and you will do some great stuff, I am sure!

You know the more these discussions come up the more confused I get. I do enjoy them but man I get a headache everytime read them. Every time I get to the point where I say OK this is what I will do someone else goes and makes me think about some other way. This is probably why I got 100 plugs turned sitting down cellar with out any type of sealer or finish on them. Suck's being someone who can't make a decision. Guess I should read my little saying below and just do something :fishslap: You know either sh%t or get off the pot. Paul

Paul :laughs: :rotf3: :laughs: I tell ya i'm the same way.:D Like Karl says, everyone has their own way and i listen to everybody, read all the labels, call the maufactuers, and still hope i'm doin it the right way. Ya got your oil guys, your waterbased guys,urethane guys,oil/urethane guys, polyurethane guys,non seal cedar guys and who knows what else.

Than ya got your oil paint guys,acrylic paint guys, e tex guys, 5min epoxy guys, 30 min epoxy guys, mirror coat guys, auto clear guys, urethane guys,and who knows what else.

All i know is i hang all the plugs guys give me as they mean too much to me to get hammered so i don't know who's hold up the best.

I don't care about my own when i fish them, i just don't want the ones i give away to have the finish slide off like an old boot, like CS says, and have a guy hooked up to piece of wood with the finish hangin off the tail hook like an old sock. :D

don't forget lacquer paint's and clear.

epoxy paint's'no primer needed



those paint's you need to spec. order from oversea;s

sealer's that r outlawed now, but you can still get in seprate component's and mix yourself. shhhh!

I use Zinsser cover stain oil base primer sealer. I cut it to 60/40 and put the mix in a gallon pickle jug. Dunk about 5 plugs at a time and let them soak for about a cold one! Dig em out and hang them to drip dry. That seals not only the outside, but the inside gets soaked also. I let them dry as long as it takes (usually this is about a couple of hours and they can be handled).

By the way, I do all drilling for weights and hooks before doing any sealing.

A light sanding is all that is required before the finish is applied. After finishing with createx paints a final epoxy finish is applied.

As a side note: I really don't expect a plug to last more than one season. If you get into blues, you are lucky to have the finish one hour. I think Bassmaster was the one who brags about his plugs when they are chewed to hell, and I would have to agree with that philosophy!! :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

sealer's that r outlawed now, but you can still get in seprate component's and mix yourself. shhhh!

CS took a pic of the outlaw mix guy for his avatar. :hihi:

Thanks Dave and Karl good to know I am not the only one. You are right about the fear factor. I just flushed, it is time to start experimenting. P.

no undertaker will need enbalmin fluid for me when the time come's.

:laughs: Ya CS, while u r still alive one more question.:D Do ya use the wilbond between paint and epoxy.:huh:

I used wilbond 30 years ago on 3 plaster bedroom ceilings that were cracked before using sand paint. Not a crack since. That paint is on there to stay.:hihi:

I wouldn't do it...you'll be back to primer in 10 second's or less.. great for stripping a messed up paint job without waiting for the new paint to dry so you can sand it off.

Thanks CS. :btu:

CS... what's you Chemical Doctorate's opinion on End-Sand, another old-timey, acetone based product from Zip?

can't rightly say....never seen it?? gotta be an outta town thing.

Really... hmm, my dad always had a can around the cellar... I'll try to post a digi later, I am sure I got a can someplace, in my messed up cave.....
Steve, It smells almost like wil-bond... it smooths and just barely softens the top coat, before you hit it with the next coat... a little goes a loooong way.

* Bonds new to old by softening old finish.
* Works on gloss-semi-gloss oil and enamel paint, latex paint, and clear finishes such as polyurethane, urethane, and varnishes.
* Removes heel marks, stains, grease, dirt, and wax from wood.

Acetone, Methanol, MEK, Petroleum Distillates, and Touluene.
Warning, causes birth defects and cancer.
and about 100 other warnings, like all the other stuff we use ;)

looks like old school adhesion promoter.
got rattle cans of that stuff to.

sounds like the same stuff, but underanother name......clean-wood is another, but doesn't work as well.must be watered down.

mek....fiberglass resin hardner.