I am embaresed to call this america, I have never seen anything like this in all my life...This Government has let these people suffer needlesly for 5 days !

As someone said last night, " I have never seen an administration so bent on killing poor people" I have to agree fully, Some of the pleading for help down there just rips at the heartstrings. We are the most advanced richest nation in the world, yet we cant drop water and peanut butter sandwiches to these people. How can bush watch people live on a highway overpass in 100 degree heat and say "help is coming" it should have been there the next day.

Acually everything should have been ready to go when the whitehouse saw that storm on the weather channell ! Bushes comment on GMA Yesterday " we didnt think it would happen" are you kiddin me? this is the best our president can do?

all the money this country has and not one plane braught in food or water! This is america for god sakes!

He says people should have " personall responsibility" Well if my kid needed food and a diaper you can bet I would be smashing windows in the wal-mart also. What does he do? send in troops? He is about to send in 10,000 active military!! My god he is terrifying these poor people, what he should have done is send food and doctors and HELP ! nO, THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT "LOOTING" They trying to survive for god sakes!

It makes me sick, I wont ever vote republican again !

America , a third world country ! A country that doesnt care about its fellow americans...Its so abvious

Seems to me that the State of Louisana didn't have much of a emergency plan in place to start with. This is a dister that has been in the making long before Bush became President, the State has had many years to get ready for this. Who dropped the ball?? Having said that, I too believe the feds should be right in there to help. What's this crap I read in the morning paper, Bush may not accept "foriegn aid" form other countries that have offered?

When the "big flood" came to the heartland about 10 or so years ago, we saw convoys of food and water headding in that direction within a day or so. Haven't seen anything like that yet headding south.

Like all the rest of you, my heart goes out to the displaced people with no one to help, keep them in our prayers.

Pete

You have a right to your opinion and agree with some of what you say but assigning blame does not help anyone at this point. What needs to happen is a massive mobilization of strategic forces to go in and help these people. Unfortunately I don't see a lot of Congressional pressure being put on the powers that be.
I sincerely hope that our nations leaders are as sypathetic to the needs of their fellow Americans as they have been in the past for the victims of the Tsunami Disaster, the Sudan refugees and the starving Angolans. :bc:

You have a right to your opinion and agree with some of what you say but assigning blame does not help anyone at this point..........

Right you are! I was only expressing my opion based on the first post. There will be plenty of time for finger pointing, shouldas and couldas in the months to come. You are 100% right , those people, and not just in New Orleans, need help now.

Pete

I gotta agree with #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&.
You mean to tell me that this country is incapable of mobilizing huge amounts of food, water, shelter at a moments notice in the event of a disaster :confused:
hurricanes
earthquakes
enemy attack
.
aliens!
WTF - Tell me noone gave this any thought.
It is embarrasing.

Unfortunatly, they needed food and water and medicine and diapers days ago, they still dont have it, thats all I see....... No blame, should just be action

Bush just now said " food is on the way" I cant.wow you have to be kiddin me, we can send troops to Iraq in no time yet the richest country in the world takes 7 days to get food and water to new orleans? fellow americans? we had tsunami drops in a day of food but, this? a week? kids are dying on highway overpases, dead bodies everywhere......Its a shame.

The more bush talks the deeper he puts his foot in his mouth, he really seems not to care. Texas is doing more than the feds, a food drop could have been done instantly, there is no defense for the feds on this one, the republicans are in deep dudu for many years to come. Spending billions on an overseas war yet letting our own people die on national television, makes me sick.

The television crews can get in there but not the federal goverment. They never even offered a way out for these people who have no maney, no gas and no place to go, they wanted them out yet offered no possible way for them to get out. busses should have been there a week ago...

even if louisiana had a plan in place , the feds would have had to get involved, the scope is just to large.

Let me ask you this? what is this happend in a rich community? palm beach, or key west where all the people were rich, you can bet they would have been plucked up right away.. Just terrible

makes me sick too Bill :hs:

when the cards are laid down, republicans will always favor the rich.. always.

I hate to say it but back in 60's and 70's New Orleans was about 70% white, affluent people. Since then the class has reversed itself, now about 70% black and poor. The amount of money going back into the local infrastucture has been dramatically decreased. On top of that, the feds the past 30 years have called shoreing up and improving the levy systems a "pork barrell" issue. Now that the chit as has hit the fan, do you think the poor souls in New Orleans consider this a pork barrell issue? I can certainly understand looting for survival, water, food and clothing, but plasma monitors, jewelry and the emptying of gun shops is just plain wrong. An engineering expert last night mentioned the levy system could be improved to withstand a cat5 hurricane for about the price of the big dig project but because these levy systems are situated in poor neighborhoods, that is not likely to happen anytime soon. Sure you can blame the current administration to some degree, but I haven't heard much from Kennedy and Kerry either. Sad sad sad....

No matter what happens now, the damage is done, to the country, bush , the govenment...This will be looked at for a long time as the worst screw up in history, the mass killing of our own people. Let them starve they arent a vote anyway. And to think what other countries must be thinking.

Brace yourselves.. Bush is going down there to do some chest beating..

i forcast him standing on a pile of rubble and surrounded by a bunch of followers like the days after 9/11. i'm sure his speach writers have drafted up a real jem of a speech.

I am not saying that all that was done for the Hurricane victims was done correctly. I am saying that all this rhetoric about who is to blame serves no useful purpose. As Pete said. let's help these people and point fingers later. :zup:

Here's a GREAT idea....and one that would make Bush a hero overnight.......go down to New Orleans, have a press conference, and announce that as a result of the huge rise in gas prices - and the fact that the US gave a lifetime exemption to all energy companies to never have to pay any corporate federal taxes again -- that the US Goverment has mandated that the major oil companies must pay for the entire clean-up and redevelopment of New Orleans. If they don't, they lose their perpetual tax advantage. Oh, and the US Goverment will place a price ceiling on all retail sales of gasoline.


Kill many birds with that stone.............. :laugha:

Here's a GREAT idea....and one that would make Bush a hero overnight.......go down to New Orleans, have a press conference, and announce that as a result of the huge rise in gas prices - and the fact that the US gave a lifetime exemption to all energy companies to never have to pay any corporate federal taxes again -- that the US Goverment has mandated that the major oil companies must pay for the entire clean-up and redevelopment of New Orleans. If they don't, they lose their perpetual tax advantage. Oh, and the US Goverment will place a price ceiling on all retail sales of gasoline.Kill many birds with that stone.............. :laugha:

YO!!!!! WAKE UP. YOUR DREAMING :sleeps:

I know.......but all great ideas start with a dream......... :D

Ugh it's really depressing watching the footage from New Orleans. You know im a Bush supporter be he's gonna take alot of heat. he his already from the usual suspects but i get the feeling this will hurt him with alot of folks. Is it his fault we cant get supplies in there? pob not but he is the man so he will get blamed. Even he said he was pissed off at what he was seeing. W gives the orders i guess but who carries them out and gets them the the folks? FEMA? Guard? I dunno just a big mess down there. Doesnt help any having the thugs shooting the helicoptors and the supply trucks refusing to go into downtown NO becuase they are afraid for thier lives. Big F'ing mess :( Lets just hold off on the blame game now and worry about getting the folks the F outta that hell hole of a city. If they friggen can.

It is definitely a VERY weird America we are currently living in and more and more people are extremely fed up with it.

In regards to pointing fingers, what has happened down there could have been seen coming the moment the hurricane went Cat 4. Again, no one wants to be accused of crying wolf, but I'm sure many people saw this level of destruction coming (the gov't can't be that dumb) and didn't prepare for it.

Power loss, flooding, heat, humidity, disease, death, atom bomb-like desctruction of homes, all compounding together into what we have now. I'm no expert and I knew this was coming last Saturday. I think a lot of other people did too which is why there is so much controversy.

How fast do you think the National Guard, Army, FEMA, etc. would have been in there helping people out if this hurricane had hit Texas or Kennebunkport, ME....?? Think about it......watch TV.....all the people who are suffering so much right now in New Orleans are poor people.......makes me want to puke -- and I am DEFINATELY leaning Democrat in the next election now.

How fast do you think the National Guard, Army, FEMA, etc. would have been in there helping people out if this hurricane had hit Texas or Kennebunkport, ME....?? Think about it......watch TV.....all the people who are suffering so much right now in New Orleans are poor people.......makes me want to puke -- and I am DEFINATELY leaning Democrat in the next election now.

So your saying Bush wants the poor black people to suffer and die? Thats a stupid and shameful statment. How about ALL those poor people that were rescued off roof tops? Why didnt the gov. give the order to let them sit and rot? I know this an emotinal time going on but you cant honestly believe what you just said can you??

How is it we can land a batallion around the world in 24 hours but it takes 5 friggin days to get food and water to US citizens. Call me what you want ,but if that was 50,000 middle aged white guys they would be tailgating by now.We are the laughing stock of the world right now.
Please give to the Red Cross.

How fast do you think the National Guard, Army, FEMA, etc. would have been in there helping people out if this hurricane had hit Texas or Kennebunkport, ME....?? Think about it......watch TV.....all the people who are suffering so much right now in New Orleans are poor people.......makes me want to puke -- and I am DEFINATELY leaning Democrat in the next election now.

I'm glad to see you can only think about the political side of things.

Amazing....all the Bush lovers immediatly turn to "Let's not talk about politics at a time like this" whenever their guy doesn't handle something properly......I am NOT political.....just observant.

Explain why we haven't done more to help those poor people?

So your saying Bush wants the poor black people to suffer and die? Thats a stupid and shameful statment. How about ALL those poor people that were rescued off roof tops? Why didnt the gov. give the order to let them sit and rot? I know this an emotinal time going on but you cant honestly believe what you just said can you?? I never said that, so please do not put words into my mouth....what I said was the government is assessing the situation very slowly....I bet if this tragedy had hit any of their hometowns that their actions would not have taken so long.

And in case you are not as old as I am, generally speaking - the Republican party is the party of capitalism and competition, while the Democratic party has been the party of social responsibility / social spenders.

Amazing....all the Bush lovers immediatly turn to "Let's not talk about politics at a time like this" whenever their guy doesn't handle something properly......I am NOT political.....just observant.

Explain why we haven't done more to help those poor people?

You were the first one to bring politics into this thread so dont say your not being political. and turn on your TV there are hundreds of military vehicles and thousands of armed troops flowing into NO as we speek and with tons and tons of food and water. I will be glad to debate the whole did we do enough soon enough topic. That will certainly be anlyzed tons in the days and weeks to come. But right now screw politics and be glad the NO folks are getting help as we speek. Later than we would have all liked to see yes, but the supplies are rolling in and lets pray this comes to and today. Its a %$%$%$%$ty and tough situation and thankfully the people are almost outta there

I don't disagree with any of that, but frankly, you just made my point for me. Even you admit we didn't do enough quickly enough for these people. It's not politics.......

Amazing....all the Bush lovers immediatly turn to "Let's not talk about politics at a time like this" whenever their guy doesn't handle something properly......I am NOT political.....just observant.

Explain why we haven't done more to help those poor people?

Bush lover?
Right.
I bet I was banned from stripersonline for being a Bush lover.

There will be plenty of time after this is said and done to argue who's fault it was about timeliness of response and whatnot, what matters now is to help in any way possible.

Agreed........

Those levees and dikes have been an issue for the last ten to twelve years and who was president then.

First of all rescuing, feeding, housing, and getting medical care for all the misplaced individuals falls squarely on the town first, the county (parish) second, the state third, and then when all of those options fail as they did so miserably it then becomes the responsibility of the feds to clean up everyone elses mess. I have never seen such a poor example of leadership as I have from the Mayor of New Orleans. Standing in front of the cameras saying how "pissed" he was that nobody has come to help. Using words that had to be bleeped out. He showed just how much of a "man" he was. One third of the cops that he hired screwed and left the city underprotected. They have yet to return to duty and their brother officers that heroically stayed with the people they serve can't wait to see them. You all have to come to grips with the simple fact that people die under these circumstances. Seeing dead bodies laying up against a curbing or sitting in a wheelchair is a hard fact of life. Come with me to a fatal crash sometime. Come with me when I find my brother officers oldest taking his last breath face down on the edge of the road. The affected persons were predestined to this fate for many reasons. Color of their skin aside the most prevelant reason is the economic well-being. They are poor and diseenfranchised and have been in that position long before Katrina came along.

No one can expect any large rescue effort to commence before the LZ can be secured can they? These same disenfranchised people are shooting at their rescuers. People who are not associated with any govenrment agency who drove their boats some from several hundred miles away were shot at. Those resuers were ordered out of the area because they cold not be adequately protected from the snipers. Americans shooting amercians. Armed thugs trying to institute anarchy until they can loot ever last store in the area around their homes.

Lastly, as far as all those people at the dome and the basketball center next to the dome are better off with or without food there than anywhere else. They have to be centrally located so an evacuation when started can be the most effective. I am sure it sucked there. They complained about no food and water, but they did have water. And the news media keeps playing the same scenes over and over giving the viewer the idea that each time things were more worse. And they very well could have been. What you are seeing is the best the government can do. Its like when you call the cops for a problem with your neighbor and they show up in a minute or two and thats reasonable most of the time. And maybe even more than one cop responds, which is even better. Power goes out in my town and I'll get 100 phone calls. I can't do anything about the power being out. Not even give the caller a time frame for it being restored, but the callers think I should. Now fathom the fact that your city or parish was just wiped off the face of the earth and imagine yourself being the officer taking calls in the station. Their is nothing anyone can do until many things are in place and the safey of the rescuers and other person involved in the cleanup can be gauranteed safe passage.

Its unfortunate but people die in these tragedies, sometimes many people, and sometimes their deaths have more to do with themselves initially at least than it does with any other action or force. All we can do is donate and pray for the survivors and the rescuers many of whom of the latter I know.

Bush lovers

We need some humor. :rotf3:

If I owned a helicopter, or even a hummer, I would pack up as many sandwiches, saltines, water, and whatever I could to take down there. With what little effort is being put forth down south, it makes me want to go there personally, because -- What are my tax dollars doing? What are my charitable donations doing? They're not helping those people, as we can see. Look at the TV and read the papers -- this is our own country. Everyone should feel guilty, not only the government -- we're sleeping in beds, eating, fishing -- and doing what for the victims? We need to call our representatives and senators and tell them to get as much as they can down there, and get it there yesterday. That won't take too long. We need to take whatever effective steps we can to help these people, and then we can type online about how much it sucks...while we're sitting comfortably in our homes. Our homes.

Well said swimmer im in total agreement

I don't disagree with any of that, but frankly, you just made my point for me. Even you admit we didn't do enough quickly enough for these people. It's not politics.......

yes i will have to agree with you. But i think Swimmers last post sums up why we coudnt get into NO any sooner. Even now its dangerous. Shoot outs with thugs today all over the place with the guard and police. I think what we agree on is the fact that food and water was not dropped in all over the place where the bigs crowds were gathered days ago. I meen some were getting food water but not many. Maybe they were concerned about people getting trampled if hundreds of folks were fisghting over the last bottle of water? and they wanted to attemp to keep some kind of order? I dont know. Thats what bothers me...Not the fact that the Guard and Feds didnt move in ASAP becuase obviosly they coudlnt get organized that quick but water and food somehow should have been dropped or something to keep the folks healthy until the convoys could get orginezed and roll into town like they did today. I do believe the city of NO and the state should have been able to accomplish the food and water part for a few days before the big Fed convoys could get organized. The local and State goverments were pitiful.

A young lady interviewed in Europe stated :"I thought America was more advanced than this, I guess that's not so.." The folks you see milling around in New Orleans are those who had or could not buy transportation out of the city. They were simply Left Behind to die. That was reported last night on NightLine. The next Election that comes along, I'm firing all the incumbents.

i just watched the cnn video ..........twice.......... and watched our president say
about...his katrina's devastation tour.. "people in this part of the world"....
and he said it twice. it was as if he was talking about somewhere other than in the United States of America,,, i find that very strange. don't you? :huh:

i just watched the cnn video ..........twice.......... and watched our president say
about...his katrina's devastation tour.. "people in this part of the world"....
and he said it twice. it was as if he was talking about somewhere other than in the United States of America,,, i find that very strange. don't you? :huh:
There's a LOT of strange crap going on lately. That man acts like he's drugged or something. I think it's due to a total disconnect from the People. Our Government displays little true sympathy or empathy with "Joe Dirt" , because those running the show have no point of reference. Never been in the trenches. OK my last rant on this subject, sorry never been so upset and outraged.

i just watched the cnn video ..........twice.......... and watched our president say
about...his katrina's devastation tour.. "people in this part of the world"....
and he said it twice. it was as if he was talking about somewhere other than in the United States of America,,, i find that very strange. don't you? :huh:
Perhaps he just saw a photo and assumed it was Somalia? :usd:

-spence

You guys make me sick bashing the President.

If you're so f*cking indignant, get off your f*cking arses and head down to help out and clean up.

Right now relief organizations need CASH to buy stuff (doubtful you'll fork any up, since you're saving up for gas money for fishing, right), and medical personnel (doesn't sound like any of you are qualified). Later down the road they'll need people to help rebuild the infrastructure - that means contracters. Doubtful any of you will donate your skilled labor if there's nothing in it for you. Put up or shut the f*ck up, and get this through your thick useless uninformed skulls:

1. As much as you would have like the Prez to get on the telly last week and tell people to pack up, it was up to the governor of LA and the mayors of LA's respective towns to order an evacuation in a timely manner. Despite a lot of hand wringing and crying, the order wasn't given until it was too late. If anyone should be excoriated publicly, it should be the governor of Louisana and the mayor of New Orleans.

2. Nobody realized the enormity of the situation until rather late. The storm turned quickly and unexpectedly. This is the first time an entire U.S. City has been taken out by a natural disaster.

3. It was up to the states to ask for federal help. State and local officials were slow to ask for that help.

4. In any disaster, there are going to be huge chaotic clusterf*cks - that's the nature of the "fog" of tragedy. In the future, you should be able to pin early confusion on INABILITY TO COMMUNICATE.

And if ANY of you want to say to my face that "Bush doesn't care about black people," ...

... I will personally spit in all of your useless crybaby faces.

:af:

What are my tax dollars doing? What are my charitable donations doing? They're not helping those people, as we can see. EXACTLY.......our tax dollars have gone to help citizens of every other country EXCEPT the United States......we (the citizens of the US) have been subsidizing the lives of every third world citizen in the world for over 70 years now. Our government does this as a way to keep these countries in check so that the dreaded C-word (communism) doesn't take a hold in these countries. By eleiminating Communism, the US Government beleives this will mean that the US can keep a stranglehold on our economic and military position of being #1.

So, next time you pay your federal income taxes, ask yourself, what NEW services have the federal government (or the state governemnt for that matter) provided for ME in the past year? 5 years? 10 years? Then compare your answer to what new services the federal government has provided for other countries over the past year, 5 years, 10 years.......be careful -- this exercise might make you sick.

And if ANY of you want to say to my face that "Bush doesn't care about black people," ...

... I will personally spit in all of your useless crybaby faces.

:af:\\not just bush, but most of the republican party doesnt care about POOR black people. Just like any onther rich republican. go ahead and spit in my face.. this event has been a huge wakeup call for the american people. hmmm welfare reform for the poor, but push better welfaare for rich corperations..

This is who George Bush cares about - the Big Oil Companies

DERRICK Z. JACKSON
Big oil's bigtime looting
By Derrick Z. Jackson | September 2, 2005

PRESIDENT BUSH yesterday told ABC-TV, ''there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this, whether it be looting or price-gouging at the gasoline pump or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud."

Zero tolerance is meaningless when the White House lets the biggest looters of Hurricane Katrina walk off with billions of dollars.

We are not referring to the people you currently see in endless footage, crashing through storefronts and wading through chest-high water with clothes, food, and pharmaceuticals. Some folks are disgusting in their thuggishness, but a great many others are simply desperate, having now gone three days without food or water. The latter are living out one of the most famous hypothetical problems in moral reasoning -- should a husband steal a cancer drug he cannot afford for his dying wife?

No such sympathy is to be extended to big oil. The nation has on its hands a disaster so profound that we have not even begun to seriously count the bodies in the floodwaters. It brings us as close as we may get in our lifetime to places like Bangladesh.

New Orleans is under martial law and will not return to normal for years. Members of the Red Cross, the Coast Guard, the National Guard, police agencies, and firefighters are sacrificing time and risking lives to save lives. Texas is opening up its school systems for homeless Louisiana children. Generous food wholesalers are giving away their stocks to passersby. The Astrodome is taking in the refugees of the Superdome.

In the midst of this charity, big oil looted the nation. The pumps instantly shot past $3 a gallon, with $4 a gallon well in sight.

In a thinly disguised attempt to act as if it cared about the people wading in the water, Chevron has pledged $5 million to relief efforts. ExxonMobil and Shell have pledged $2 million apiece. British Petroleum and Citgo have pledged $1 million each.

This is nothing next to their wealth. Of the world's seven most profitable corporations, four are ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, and Chevron. ExxonMobil is the world's most profitable company, making $25.3 billion last year. It and the other three corporations had combined profits last year of $72.8 billion. ExxonMobil is also the world's most valuable company, with a market value, according to Forbes magazine, of $405 billion. The combined market value of ExxonMobil, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, and Chevron is nearly $1 trillion.

And that was last year. A month ago, ExxonMobil, Chevron, and ConocoPhillips announced record second-quarter profits of $7.6 billion, $3.7 billion, and $3.1 billion, respectively. Royal Dutch Shell's quarterly profits of $5.2 billion were up by 34 percent over the same period last year. Other well-known companies like Sunoco also had record second-quarter earnings.

If ExxonMobil were to maintain its current pace of profits, it would cross the $30 billion barrier for 2005. The company's chief financial officer, Henry Hubble, bragged in classic corporatese, ''Our disciplined project management and operating practices deliver the benefits of strong industry conditions to our shareholders."

Those disciplined operating practices are hardly confined to the oil fields. Everyone knows that Bush does not really mean what he says about price-gouging at the pump, since he just gave energy companies the bulk of $14.5 billion in tax breaks in the new energy bill. Surprise, surprise. In Bush's two elections, oil and gas companies gave Republicans 79 percent of their $61.5 million in campaign contributions, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

If Bush really meant what he said, he would call for a freeze or cap on gasoline prices, especially in the regions affected most dramatically by Katrina. He would challenge big oil to come up with a much more meaningful contribution to relief efforts.

Insurance companies are expecting up to $25 billion in claims from Katrina. For ExxonMobil, which is headed to $30 billion in profits, to jack up prices at the pump and then only throw $2 million at relief efforts is unconscionable.

Stay fixated, if you wish, on the thieves and desperate families who are so much easier to catch on camera than comptrollers electronically stealing your cash. It is not pleasant to see anyone loot a store. But ExxonMobil and big oil are looting the nation, and no one declaring martial law on them.

Derrick Z. Jackson's e-mail address is jackson@globe.com.

Wake up WeeWee......I supported Bush's move on Iraq (it was the RIGHT thing to do)....but frankly, this guy is NOT a leader. He doesn't command respect, because he hasn't earned it.

IMO - Bush like all politicians - only care about the people who can butter their bread for them....that does not translate into poor black people. I wouldn't say he doesn't care about poor people, it's just that they are not seen as politically important to him.

Even Bush is admitting he (read US Government) dropped the ball on this one.......

In a thinly disguised attempt to act as if it cared about the people wading in the water, Chevron has pledged $5 million to relief efforts. ExxonMobil and Shell have pledged $2 million apiece. British Petroleum and Citgo have pledged $1 million each. Yet again, another Homerun04 idea coming to fruition.....didn't someone call me a dreamer on this board for suggesting that Big Oil be ordered to pay for the clean-up of NO due to their gas gauging....?? Huh, imagine that, the Big Oil companies recognized what was going on and are doing everything they can do to cut the US Government to the quick and start donating money BEFORE they were ordered (whether publically or behind closed doors) to do so.......how much of a dreamer is Homerun04 now...... ;)

Amazing, Big Oil steals from us blindly, then gives back peanuts compard to what they stole, and then they expect everyone to praise them for it....standard fleecing practice in US businesses......remember, "The masses are asses"...

Wake up WeeWee

smell the coffee ahem. why wasn't the governor of LA decisive enough to issue an evacation order sooner? why wasn't federal aid requested sooner?

Eben you are despicable. I have completely lost respect for you.

i just watched the cnn video ..........twice.......... and watched our president say
about...his katrina's devastation tour.. "people in this part of the world"....
and he said it twice. it was as if he was talking about somewhere other than in the United States of America,,, i find that very strange. don't you? :huh:

yep, pehaps you can spin it to sound strange, but also you could remember that he is broacasting around the world as well as in this country. Last I checked that area was part of this world and still is.

Can you guys chill out on the name calling!

Mobil and Exxon should add 3 zeros to their pledge :yak:

why wasn't the governor of LA decisive enough to issue an evacation order sooner? why wasn't federal aid requested sooner? The entire world knew about this hurricane for WEEKS before it ever hit landfall in the USA. There should have been emergency proccedures in place WELL BEFORE it ever made landfall. Are you seriously going blame the Governor of LA for not issuing an evacuation order sooner? If he issued an evacuation order sooner, how were the poor people -- who could not afford the ticket out of town -- going to leave???? Magic???

No, it was NOT Bush's fault that efforts to help these people took way too long....does that make you feel better? But, of course, he is the man who gets the credit when things go well, so as the "boss" he needs to take the blame when things get f****d up in his administration as well.

Bush himself, has admitted that the federal government is screwing this up....and BTW, in case you hadn't realized this, he is the CEO of the Federal Government..........so ultimatly he is responsible for it's actions. It goes with the job.

Do any of you think that your opinion counts? If calling each other names and ripping the current, past or future administration is your way of getting your kicks, then you guys don't fish enough.

Do any of you think that your opinion counts? If calling each other names and ripping the current, past or future administration is your way of getting your kicks, then you guys don't fish enough.
Agreed.

Do any of you think that your opinion counts? Sorry to hear you don't think your opinion counts for much. I, for one, value your opinions.....

I still believe mine counts on election day. I don't vote in Florida. :rotfl:
Just trying to lighten things up a bit, we've all been through an emotional meat grinder this week. Thank God we're here and not there.

Sorry to hear you don't think your opinion counts for much. I, for one, value your opinions.....
Listen, I am merely trying to defuse this rhetoric that is getting to the point where it is a pi$$ing contest. I fought and bled in Vietnam so you could voice your opinion. I'm just trying to lighten the mood and keep it civil

Same page Jake, thanks.

Listen, I am merely trying to defuse this rhetoric that is getting to the point where it is a pi$$ing contest. I fought and bled in Vietnam so you could voice your opinion. I'm just trying to lighten the mood and keep it civil In that case, I yield. I have tremendous respect for our veterans, and might I say to you sir, "Thank you for the freedom and safety my family now enjoys".

Acknowledged and accepted. let's just fish.

In that case, I yield. I have tremendous respect for our veterans, and might I say to you sir, "Thank you for the freedom and safety my family now enjoys".
Ditto, Thanks Piemma

you're quite right...and good point.

smell the coffee ahem. why wasn't the governor of LA decisive enough to issue an evacation order sooner? why wasn't federal aid requested sooner?

Eben you are despicable. I have completely lost respect for you.

hey i am just calling it the way i see it. correct me if i am wrong but you have come up with some beautiful names for russians- "stinkies", arabs- towel heads, sheetheads, etc..perhaps you are more predijuse than our president... why do you own all those guns? what are you scared of?????
i stand by what i said, the aid was not there because 1/3rd of new orleans is on welfare... the levees were never re-built because 1/3rd of new orleans is on welfare.. it is a poor city. I agree, why didnt the govenor call for evacuations sooner, but the people who stayed probably didnt have the means to evacuate. i am sure you are telling all your clients to buy oil stocks, thus profiting on this disaster...

You know what is despicable weewee, the fact that the militarry couldnt have flown over the superdome and parrachuted in some food or water.. it would have taken a half day to do it. why didnt it happen?????? those people had no food for 3 days.

you have lost respect for me??? why because i pay attention to the flaws of or leaders and complain about them. i have every right to point out the enomously obvious biases of the bush administration. 80% of the american population is totally numb to what is really going on and for that we deserve a horrible tyrant leader who is doing all he best to make sure the rich are doing swell as the poor and middle class can barely survive each day....

Sorry WeeWee.....but I totally agree with Nebe on this one......

hey i am just calling it the way i see it. correct me if i am wrong but you have come up with some beautiful names for russians- "stinkies", arabs- towel heads, sheetheads, etc..perhaps you are more predijuse than our president...

Amen to that... :rtfm:

-spence

of Katrina............................
-------------------------------------------------
nebe quote:
1/3rd of new orleans is on welfare.. it is a poor city. I agree, why didnt the govenor call for evacuations sooner, but the people who stayed probably didnt have the means to evacuate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
it was said on the news that Katrina hit just before that 1/3 rd of the population (who were ordered to evacuate) was just about to recieve their welfare checks...and because they hadnt recieved them, couldnt leave.

Do not forget there are victims in missisippi

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/12555987.htm

Please reply to the topic or the opinions expressed. Any more chest pounding and personal attacks and all you thoughts and typing will be flushed in a matter of seconds with just a click of the mouse.

Thank you for behaving like adults. :(

It's been at least 30 years that I've heard experts predict this disaster in N'orlins. It went exactly by the "book", as predicted. Levee failure, the entire city flooded. There should have been a mass evacuation plan in place, and it should have been implemented on Sunday. The mayor ordered an evacuation, but there was no plan to evacuate those who were without the means--no car, no gas for the car, nowhere to go, whatever.

Gov. Blanco is in way over her head. You declare the state of emergency and deploy the Guard to key staging areas ahead of the storm. There's a big difference between what the Guard is allowed to do when a governor declares a state of emergency and what the regular military can do. Other than the Coast Guard, the regular military has no teeth to back it up when they are deployed domestically--they have no law enforcement or peace officer status--they are, in fact, civilians in that sense. I'm sure the Guard had snorkel equipped trucks that could have accessed many areas that were innundated. Cripes, MSNBC and CNN got reporters to the Superdome and the convention center--you mean to tell me the freakin' Guard couldn't have got down there and enforced order? In the Watts riots of the 60s, the Guard in L.A. had "shoot to kill" orders for looters, let alone people who were shooting at them.

That being said, Bush and the Feds didn't do themselves proud. We have a Homeland Security chief who's had a deer in the headlights look on his face for over a week now. After Camille in 1969 (which while as powerful as Katrina was a much smaller storm in area), Nixon deployed the entire 3rd Infantry to the Mississippi coast to aid in the relief effort. Bush didn't even cut his vacation short and return to DC until 2 days after the storm hit.

"No one thought it would be that bad"??? Bullcrap. We've known for as long as I've been alive what would happen if NO took a Cat 4 or 5 head on.

i believe that world wide and here in America there has to be some form of population control other than voluntary .
It's never really talked about...

but in reality ....we are ALL on a need to know basis... not wanting a society that is in a full state of PANIC which is - feared (controlled) the most by government.

so when natural disasters strike it's a necessary evil you could say, to allow
a certain number of citizens to expire for the good of the rest and or the planet.

the government has many worst case scenario's in place were there to be a
major attack ...a cataclysmic EVENT such as a meteor strike or mega volcanic blast that launches us into a nuclear winter or permanent darkened sky....
there will only be a small segment of the population that will be manageable...or survive....
in a underground city - living off of stored provisions until it's safe again
if ever.

Interesting thread....

I try to stay out of the political topics on this board, they get pretty hot sometimes and I would rather not draw fire if I can help it. But....


I voted for Bush twice and I have to say, I am not proud of it. Not just based on this event, or Iraq, but the cumulative effect of his Presidency. I supported him when friends and family would criticize his speech, dim wittedness, whatever.....but I can't do that anymore.

The working stiffs, like most of us, are working harder and harder and we bring home less and less. I am dismayed at where our country is heaing right now, really really dimayed about it. I don't see good days ahead for America. It is sad, I used to be optomistic about most things; I can't do that anymore.

My blood boiled when I heard President Bush, after being briefed by the various disaster relief organizations on his trip south, say (I'm loosely quoting this) "Senator Lott lost his home, but it will be rebuilt and it wil be beautiful, lookin' forward to sittin on his deck,too"

Reminded me of his father, when he first learned about checkout scanners at grocery stores.... these damn politicians don't know what work is or what is means to live in the real world today.... anyways, it's a sorry sorry state of affairs. :doh:

Am I wrong here????

I think you're dead on Hooper, although my vision may be more optimistic.

We're going to see a progressive wave sweep the country (pun not intended) that isn't going to be a shift to liberalisim, but rather to the objective middle where the vast majority of Americans find themselves.

The neo-cons and social conservatives hell bent on corporate domination and evangelical constitutional subversion are loosing their grip, rise oh ye pragmatic and patriotic Americans! :kewl:

-spence

I couldn't have said it better myself, Spence....perhaps we are not really that far apart after all..... :kewl:

I couldn't have said it better myself, Spence....perhaps we are not really that far apart after all..... :kewl:
I never thought we were, you just keep taking the longer road for some reason ;)

-spence

I think you're dead on Hooper, although my vision may be more optimistic.

We're going to see a progressive wave sweep the country (pun not intended) that isn't going to be a shift to liberalisim, but rather to the objective middle where the vast majority of Americans find themselves.

The neo-cons and social conservatives hell bent on corporate domination and evangelical constitutional subversion are loosing their grip, rise oh ye pragmatic and patriotic Americans! :kewl:

-spence

i owe you 2 dannies for that one :D

I think you're dead on Hooper, although my vision may be more optimistic.

We're going to see a progressive wave sweep the country (pun not intended) that isn't going to be a shift to liberalisim, but rather to the objective middle where the vast majority of Americans find themselves.

The neo-cons and social conservatives hell bent on corporate domination and evangelical constitutional subversion are loosing their grip, rise oh ye pragmatic and patriotic Americans! :kewl:

-spence

When I was mentioning revolution in another thread (started by Flaptail I think) this is exactly what I'm talking about. :kewl:

I think you're dead on Hooper, although my vision may be more optimistic.

We're going to see a progressive wave sweep the country (pun not intended) that isn't going to be a shift to liberalisim, but rather to the objective middle where the vast majority of Americans find themselves.

The neo-cons and social conservatives hell bent on corporate domination and evangelical constitutional subversion are loosing their grip, rise oh ye pragmatic and patriotic Americans! :kewl:

-spence
blah, blah, blah blah blah bah blah blah

blah, blah, blah blah blah bah blah blah


"blah humbug"- ebenezer

"blah humbug"- ebenezer
While I may not agree with Piemma at times, I believe it is "Mr. Ebenezer" to you Eben....after all, if my memory serves me correct, Mr. Piemma is a veteran.......see, I don't forget.

:think:

Piemma just thinks I've been a tad bombastic of late :rocketem:

-spence

Interesting thread....

I try to stay out of the political topics on this board, they get pretty hot sometimes and I would rather not draw fire if I can help it. But....


I voted for Bush twice and I have to say, I am not proud of it. Not just based on this event, or Iraq, but the cumulative effect of his Presidency. I supported him when friends and family would criticize his speech, dim wittedness, whatever.....but I can't do that anymore.

The working stiffs, like most of us, are working harder and harder and we bring home less and less. I am dismayed at where our country is heaing right now, really really dimayed about it. I don't see good days ahead for America. It is sad, I used to be optomistic about most things; I can't do that anymore.

My blood boiled when I heard President Bush, after being briefed by the various disaster relief organizations on his trip south, say (I'm loosely quoting this) "Senator Lott lost his home, but it will be rebuilt and it wil be beautiful, lookin' forward to sittin on his deck,too"

Reminded me of his father, when he first learned about checkout scanners at grocery stores.... these damn politicians don't know what work is or what is means to live in the real world today.... anyways, it's a sorry sorry state of affairs. :doh:

Am I wrong here????
no you're not wrong. i'm in the same boat as you.

While I may not agree with Piemma at times, I believe it is "Mr. Ebenezer" to you Eben....after all, if my memory serves me correct, Mr. Piemma is a veteran.......see, I don't forget.

:think:

piemma and i fish together...we talk on the phone often, and most importatly, we bust each other's balls.. well mostly we discuss spence's fishing woes :hihi:
anyway, i have the greatest respect for him. :D

we bust each other's balls Well, I suppose that's better then other things you guys could be doing with each other's balls.....oh John, please don't spank me too hard for that one.......... :bgi:

I
We're going to see a progressive wave sweep the country (pun not intended) that isn't going to be a shift to liberalisim, but rather to the objective middle where the vast majority of Americans find themselves.

The neo-cons and social conservatives hell bent on corporate domination and evangelical constitutional subversion are loosing their grip, rise oh ye pragmatic and patriotic Americans! :kewl:

-spenceLet's first put a jack-booted heel to the term "neo-con." It's a childish attempt to equate traditional conservitaves to the "neo-nazi" movement in europe. Secondly.. please take off your blinders... the trend in this country is to more toward traditional values.. call them conservative if you will, but the majority of the people in this country have voted in an honest president, a republican controled sentate and a republican controled house. There will soon be 2 possibly 3 more "conservative" justices on the supreme court.

I think you'd better put your finger back up in the wind.. maybe lick the other side of it.

As far as the problems in New Orleans... it is a true tradgedy. Please don't try to politicize it.

If there is any blame to assess, it lies directly on the city of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana.

For some reason I've read all these political threads -- there's so much to say, so I'll keep it very, very, very brief:

Liberals make me ... :

:wall: :realmad: :crying: :laugha: :sick: :huh: :conf: :wall:

All at the same time.

:laugha: :laugha:

Everyone lighten up and laugh.

Q: What do you call a basement full of Liberals?
A: A whine cellar.

Q: What is the Democrat doing when he holds his hands tightly over his ears?
A: Trying to hold on to a thought.


Headlines from the year 2029 after many Democratic Presidents

Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest
country in the world, Mexifornia formally known as California. White
minorities still trying to have English recognized as Mexifornia's third
language.

Spotted Owl plague threatens northwestern United States crops and livestock.

Baby conceived naturally . . . scientists stumped.

Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual marriage.

Iraq still closed off; physicists estimate it will take at least 10 more
years before radioactivity decreases to safe levels.

France pleads for global help after being taken over by Jamaica.

Massachusetts executes last remaining conservative.

Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals violates their civil rights.

Capitol Hill intern indicted for refusing to have sex with congressman.

IRS sets lowest tax rate at 75 percent.

t the majority of the people in this country have voted in an honest president

honest???? thanks i needed a laugh tonight :D

fishweewee rules.. :bgi:

honest???? thanks i needed a laugh tonight :D*smile* me too..

score board... hahaha

In reply to what I just finished reading, as I just read this thread for the first time. After 9/11 I thought the government was supposed to prepared for any dissaster. Where did all are tax dollars go?

Where did all are tax dollars go? Same place all our other taxes go to....Presidential Balls.....Congressional Vacations.....Foreign Aid.....and $20 Billion public welfare..er..I mean....Public Works programs like the Big Pig (Dig)...... :af: :af: :af:

FDR invented the concept of the public works program as a way to get America back to work after the Great Depression....nowadays, Presidents tend to use it as a way to get Americans to look the other way when our government decides to give away one of our industries......"Sure, outsource all our programming jobs, but we'll have plenty of new construction jobs open for the people who get displaced."

Employment is at an all-time low, and Wal*Mart is the largest private employer in the USA......unemployment has decreased, but so has actual earnings......what a country.......

Let's first put a jack-booted heel to the term "neo-con." It's a childish attempt to equate traditional conservitaves to the "neo-nazi" movement in europe.
Actually it was liberals who first began (politically) to use the prefix "neo" to describe changes within their own ranks. What your saying makes little sense.

Secondly.. please take off your blinders... the trend in this country is to more toward traditional values.. call them conservative if you will, but the majority of the people in this country have voted in an honest president, a republican controled sentate and a republican controled house. There will soon be 2 possibly 3 more "conservative" justices on the supreme court.
And yet the polls show a continued trend to the negative. The majority of Americans think the President hasn't been honest on the issue of WMD, perhaps one of the most profound deceptions in the history of our great Nation.
I think you'd better put your finger back up in the wind.. maybe lick the other side of it.
The winds of change are being driven by a people sick of rising energy costs while record profit takers enjoy Federal taxpayer subsidies...get real.

-spence

hey so how do you tell the difference between an anal and oral theormometer????


the taste :D

this thead is beaten to death... stay tuned for the blame game to really heat up in the coming weeks.. scape goats.. we need scape goats. the mayor, the govenor and probably the head of FEMA will fry in the hotseat, no blame will be givin to anyone high up in the whitehouse...watch and see.


The average american is quick to forget and sadly i believe in 3 years most will not remember this great blunder.. we will be too busy with iran

or Syria....one of the two....this war is far from being over....as you know that where ever Sadam's truckloads of money was goin....other valubles like weaponry...went there also ...way ahead of the shell game.
================================================== =====
southern coastline: Holland did it right.....and we should follow their example of ingenuity.

Actually it was liberals who first began (politically) to use the prefix "neo" to describe changes within their own ranks. What your saying makes little sense.
-spence

Do a google search on the two terms. Does this make any sense? :)

Excerpted from: http://thebarristers.com/weblog/2004_04_18_archived.html

"More importantly, "neocon" is looked upon as a truly inspired phrase that captures two negatives in one short phrase. Ask yourself: when has "neo" been used in conjunction with any other word to describe a large group of people? We don't have neobarmaids or neoteachers or neopoliticians. We don't have neotruckdrivers or neodoctors or neostargazers. We don't have neorepubs or neodems or neogreens.

But we do have neonazis.

Go ahead, Google "neonazi" in a websearch (69K hits) or even recent news (352 hits). When I see a word that starts out as "neo...", my mind immediately starts to fill in the rest: "...nazi".

Oh, it's not nazi, it's con. Right.

Not too subtle. Liberals like using "neo" because it conjures up that "n" word, a word that carries a significant amount of baggage. Long before there were conservatives, there were Nazis. Long before there were neocons, there were neonazis. Except for The Matrix, "neo" has rarely been connected to any word but Nazi. Until now.

Bush = Nazi

Neocon = Neonazi.

Get it?

It goes without saying that "con" certainly carries a negative connotation."

check this out www.bushbumperstickers.com

Ask yourself: when has "neo" been used in conjunction with any other word to describe a large group of people?
Moot. There really arn't that many neo-con's either...a small group has too much influence...that's a large part of the problem.

-spence

The term has actually been around since the Reagan era. Originally, it referred to people like Lyn Nofzinger, mainly people who were 60s liberals and who turned to the right as they got older. That's where the "neo" came from then. Newly converted conservatives. I won't speculate on what it's current meaning is, or the intentions of those who throw the word around.

Moot.
-spence
Of course it is :)

Ask yourself: when has "neo" been used in conjunction with any other word to describe a large group of people? We don't have neobarmaids or neoteachers or neopoliticians. We don't have neotruckdrivers or neodoctors or neostargazers. We don't have neorepubs or neodems or neogreens.

But we do have neonazis.

I've always felt that "neo" meant new and was used to enhance certainl words, to narrow the meaning. So I looked it up:

"NEO" means new or recent "adj : (used as a combining form) recent or new; "`neo' is a combining form in words like `neocolonialism'""

New; recent: neonatal.
New and different: Neo-Freudian.
New and abnormal: neoplasm (underline abnormal :hihi: )

"NEO" has nothing to do with the Nazi party other than to signify that it is a NEW or RECENT Nazi party (seeing the original Nazi party is illegal in Germany).

Now, NEO or N.E.O. - Near Earth Objects, may be what Liberals used as basis to label the NEOcons as that like near earth objects, you can see these NEOcons, but they are not often "grounded" in reality... (that was a joke :hihi: )

I do think - hopefully - there will be a lot of "NEOmoderates" or "NEOindependents" in upcoming elections. That make sound decisions in the interest of America and the future of America. Not the 90 day, 180 day, or 365 day view... And that if they are thinking and acting long term (democarcy in the Middle East IS a lofty and worthy goal) that they do so in a competent, non-bungling manner - and not look to - paraphrase here for near-family content :hee: - like a monkey having relations with a football. People that will think of shaping the country to the benefit of all and especially the middle class. Why should the corporations making oooodles of profits get further tax cuts and incentives and schools get less funding? Why should the richest of the rich get another tax cut when middle america gets further squeezed? WHen the upper corp types have incentive to offshore the jobs of the lower people. This isn't trickle down economics but trickle down used cars - usually gas guzzlers. This is

As someone that has a mediocre combined family income, the swiftly increases of cost in gas, home heating oil, insurance, medical, education,
food and necessary consumer goods is taking me out of the economic engine that is America. The drastic increases in these costs consume a significantly larger portion of my budget (most in fact) than what a "rich" person say houshold income of 250K or 500K or 1mil. These people can weather spending $100 per week in gas or doubling their home heating costs. I can't without significant sacrifice. If these people that are making the decisions that effect us all base those decisions on THEIR experience and THEIR comfort levels than a lot of us - me included - will reach our "Tipping Point" much sooner than those in the "know". What happens when our country reaches the Tipping Point before those out of touch in power think it does? I'm just one tooth in a machine of cogs that has worn down and is slipping. How many other teeth need to be shaved before the machine slips again? What happens when enough teeth are shaved off the gears of economy that the gears shudder, slip, then fail to turn?

This is what scares me, that those in power in gvmt and in big biz DO NOT understand or care about the middle class or the long term future - beyond Wall Street predictions - of our country.

Oh yeh - feel free to debate these threads but no personal attacks and name calling - thanks...

:angel:

GO SOX@@!!!!

Go Pats!

Well said John...

I think THIS (http://media.putfile.com/OlbermannSwings) sums it up pretty well.


and this as well-

"... I went to Florida a few days after President Bush did to observe the damage from Hurricane Andrew. I had dealt with a lot of natural disasters as governor, including floods, droughts, and tornadoes, but I had never seen anything like this. I was surprised to hear complaints from both local officials and residents about how the Federal Emergency Management Agency was handling the aftermath of the hurricane. Traditionally, the job of FEMA director was given to a political supporter of the President who wanted some plum position but who had no experience with emergencies. I made a mental note to avoid that mistake if I won. Voters don't chose a President based on how he'll handle disasters, but if they're faced with one themselves, it quickly becomes the most important issue in their lives." - Bill Clinton, My Life (p. 428)

I'm a neobe
from neojersey
I can't read the neoyork times
but i carry one around all the time in public.
lookin for a neoworld order