Man if this guy isn't the most clutch hitting player in baseball. He just keeps winning games with his bat. I can't remember all the ganes he has won single handedly there are so many the last few years. Still can't believe Minn. let him go and only 6 mill a year. They must be kicking themselves every time they read the box score. Paul

Paul I could not agree with you more....seems like every night he is winning a game with a homer late! I just turned on the radio last night to find the game still going on and Ortiz at the plate....."BANG" another dinger to put the Sox ahead...turns out to be the game winner in 11 innings! He gets my vote! It will be the first time ever a DH wins the MVP! :jump:

you got to love big dave :)

Hey big fish, check craigslist , i noticed someone is giving away a new oil tank down the cape.

VB

It has gotten to the point with me, when Ortiz is up I say to myself, " he's gonna hit this one out" and you know what? he does :jump:

50 Homers maybe? :bgi: It could happen....last Sox player with 50 was.....my guess would be....Jimmie Foxx! :huh: The year...another guess would be....1937? Gonna go check!

:btu:

It was Foxx and it was 1938! :bounce:

It has gotten to the point with me, when Ortiz is up I say to myself, " he's gonna hit this one out" and you know what? he does :jump:
me too- last night again!

Arod will win the mvp!!!
I like Ortiz, but NO way he wins as a dh, when Arod has had the season that he has, and could possible win a gold glove for 3rd base!!!
Vladimir Guerrero will win it before Ortiz also!!!

Value to the team Ron...Sox have been in 1st virtually all year....they go post season and he wins it hands down....his stats are worlds better than A-Rod and Vladdy! :gf:

MVP- should go to the player that helps his ( or hers as in arods case ) team WIN something- say a divison or at least the wildcard. methinks that the dh postion requires a certain mindset to stay in the game mentally, not to mention his phenominal clutch game winning hits. yeah ortiz is my mvp.

Value to the team Ron...Sox have been in 1st virtually all year....they go post season and he wins it hands down....his stats are worlds better than A-Rod and Vladdy! :gf:

As usual Larry, you're wrong!!!
Like I said, I like Ortiz,
But he doesn't have to run around the out field or play 3rd base!
wearing down his body all season!

Ron...I didn't make up the rules or the DH position...but there it is and he is having a great year playing the position. Also Ron...you can't be wrong when it is an opinion...as I have said before.....disagree with it but at least show it some respect. :rollem:

AVG .296 | HR 41 | RBI 127 OBP 396 SLG .599 ortiz


AVG .319 | HR 41 | RBI 110 OBP.420 SLG .600 a-rod


AVG .313 | HR 29 | RBI 97 guerrero (less at bats)

it'll be a close race.....but i do believe being a DH puts ortiz at a disadvantage, but he really deserves it considering all the game winning hits he's had this year

That is what makes an MVP in my opinion....clutch hits and making them pay off with wins! :btu: Nobody has done it better than Big Poppy! Vlade is not even in the running! :yawn:

You can take Vlad out of the Picture, he missed to many games and his Stats don't Stack up next to Ortiz and A-Fraud.

It should go to Ortiz because he IS more Valuable to his team's success than A-Fraud is to the Yankees, unfortunately most of the Sports writers are Nitwits who like to feed into controversy. As of this writing the Yankees aren't in the Post-Season yet, and the Sox are.

I don't by the "Need to play a positon" theory. If you're the most valuable at what you do for the team and its success then thats what should count.

They've given the award to pitchers, and they only play 1/5 of the games, hell they gave it to Eckersley in 92 and he only pitched probably 60-70 innings all season.

As usual Larry, you're wrong!!!
Like I said, I like Ortiz,
But he doesn't have to run around the out field or play 3rd base!
wearing down his body all season!
I'm with you on this one... I love Ortiz.... great hitter and a great guy.... but he is all offense.... he has very little defense... my bet is A-Rod....(don't get me wrong, I personally can't stand him) he has good #'s both offense and defense

my bet is A-Rod....(don't get me wrong, I personally can't stand him) he has good #'s both offense and defense


He's not that great on Defense...since we're looking at #'s

He's middle of the pack on errors, assists, double plays, and put-outs an he is near the bottom of the list for his range.

A-fraud is ALL bat.....that is what will get him the MVP, if he gets it, not his glove.


Can you tell I'm not one of his biggest fans :D

Ortiz should get it. Since when does defense win somebody an MVP?
Did Bonds win all his MVP's for his fielding?

how could he not be- man is carrying team.

He did it again tonight. My vote goes to Ortiz not that CHEAT arod.

One more time. The guy is unbeliveable. I heard something today to add to the controversy of MVP. Eck got the Cy Young I think as reliever and he had maybe 60 total innings compared to a starter who pitch's many more so who's to say a DH can't win MVP. I will be stunned if he does but he is more valuable to Sox than Ahole is to Yank's. Paul

They've given the award to pitchers, and they only play 1/5 of the games, hell they gave it to Eckersley in 92 and he only pitched probably 60-70 innings all season.


I had heard that somewhere before....:D

MVP=BIG PAPI
WOW WHAT A PLAYER HE IS. NUFF SAID
VB

A-rod isn't even the Yankees' MVP. Sheffield and Giambi have probably contributed to more wins, in close, clutch situations.

But, this debate over who should win the "MVP" has been going on for years--is it the player who's contributed the most to his team's season, or the guy with the best numbers?

Maybe if the award was called the "Player of the Year" award, it'd be A-rod, but you 'd have to say the Ortiz has contributed more to the Sox place in the standings. Take A-rod away, the Yanks are still right where they are in the race.

Agreed...

-spence

Maybe if the award was called the "Player of the Year" award, it'd be A-rod, but you 'd have to say the Ortiz has contributed more to the Sox place in the standings. Take A-rod away, the Yanks are still right where they are in the race.

good point

In fact, you can make a case that the two people who have been the "most valuable" Yankees are the two bargain-basement pitchers they signed for a song at the trade deadline, Small and Chacon ;)

I had heard that somewhere before....:D
:blush: Sorry I was working on 4 hours sleep and busy arguing with a 4 year old, girl, while I was reading. You got it right too. Me stupid and tired. :laugha: Paul

[QUOTE=The Dad Fisherman]You can take Vlad out of the Picture, he missed to many games and his Stats don't Stack up next to Ortiz and A-Fraud.

Got any idea how or why Vladdy got injured and ended up missing time this season?
I'm not sure myself, but If I had to guess, he hurt himself playing the outfield and not swinging a bat!

[QUOTE=Raider RonnieGot any idea how or why Vladdy got injured and ended up missing time this season?
I'm not sure myself, but If I had to guess, he hurt himself playing the outfield and not swinging a bat![/QUOTE]


Doesn't really matter if he ran into the wall running after a fly or if he fell in the bathtub, the fact is his he missed a lot of games and his stats don't stack up against the other two. Ortiz has 11 more HR's and 30 More RBI's than Vlad in only 15 more games than Vlad.


I like Vlad I think he an awesome ball player but this just ain't his year.

TDF...Ron is still clinging to the "he is not playing full time in the field thus he is better rested" claim! I don't think it matters......he is a gamer and if guys like Eck can win Cy and MVP for pitching 70 innings (talk about rested) Ortiz can win MVP! I am saying right now he has it locked up! :lurk:

TDF...Ron is still clinging to the "he is not playing full time in the field thus he is better rested" claim! I don't think it matters......he is a gamer and if guys like Eck can win Cy and MVP for pitching 70 innings (talk about rested) Ortiz can win MVP! I am saying right now he has it locked up! :lurk:


I don't he will have it locked the way things are going,
especially since it looks like the Sox will be looking up at the Yankees in the standings very soon!
The Yankees have a MUCH easier schedule to end the season than the schedule the Sox have!!!
I agree that Ortiz is carrying the team, but If guys like Manny, Jason Varitek,Nixon, and abunch of others keep slumping like they are, they won't even get a wildcard spot!

The Sox play most of the remainder of the season at home! :bgi:

It seems like Ron dislikes all Boston teams...Maybe he should move...

cheap houses in compton, plus ya get to hang with the wu tang clan.

What makes anyone a Raider Fan anyway? Is it their....ahem...cough....winning tradition? :laugha:

:)

it's halloween every day.

What makes anyone a Raider Fan anyway? Is it their....ahem...cough....winning tradition? :laugha:


I often wonder what makes a guy call himself " Bigfish "
When he has never caught a big fish in his life!!!

Your so easy Ron! :laugha:

it's halloween every day.

whe I was at the game foxboro last week there was more than a few Pats fans dressed up that even the Pats fans sitting around me were laughing at,
one inparticular was a guy dressed in kind of half a blue michelin man suit and the other half a fairy!!!

Sounds like he was a fan of both teams...I can tell because most Raiders fans are fairies! :rotf2: :laugha: :bgi:






This is the part of the show where Ron flips out! :hidin:

Sounds like he was a fan of both teams...I can tell because most Raiders fans are fairies! :rotf2: :laugha: :bgi:






This is the part of the show where Ron flips out! :hidin:

Oh I forgot, we have to watch what we say and not use words like Fairies,
I meant to say, He was sexually confused!!!

:laugha:

Again. If he does not get it is a shame.

I Think its all going to count on wether we make the playoffs or not....If we don't A-Fraud will get it.

Again :kewl:
Go Big Dave :D

Yes :jump:

A-fraud is ALL bat.....that is what will get him the MVP, if he gets it, not his glove.
"All bat"? Respectfully disagree. He's as good a glove-man as anyone. In fact he's fast, he can hit, field, run the bases, and he's smart. Like him or hate him, 'doesn't matter a lick. The fact remains that he's a total ballplayer.

"All bat"? Respectfully disagree. He's as good a glove-man as anyone. In fact he's fast, he can hit, field, run the bases, and he's smart. Like him or hate him, 'doesn't matter a lick. The fact remains that he's a total ballplayer.

If he's so fast why does he only have 18 Stolen bases????He doesn't even lead his TEAM in this category. I already admitted he could hit, that's what will get it for him, if he gets it. and based on THIS years stats he is an averge Fielder (it doesn't matter what he's done in the past). Pretty much middle of the road on most defensive categories and bottom 3rd in his range rating.

When he has been on 1st...I don't recall him letting us down with any errors? :bgi:

If he's so fast why does he only have 18 Stolen bases????He doesn't even lead his TEAM in this category.

Because for most of the year, he batted third in the order, with guys like Sheffield and Giambi hitting behind him. You don't go running a guy, or play hit and run, and risk running yourself out of a potential big inning and/or taking the bat out of your sluggers' hands. Not a lot of teams have their #3 hitter stealing with their clean-up hitter at the plate and less than 2 outs ;)

Let's say Ortiz had speed---would you run him with Manny at the plate?

DOHHH! Can't argue that one....


But I still stand behind the fact that if he wins the MVP its because of his bat...not his defense.

But I still stand behind the fact that if he wins the MVP its because of his bat...not his defense.

Of COURSE if he gets MVP his hitting will be the primary reason. No one's saying otherwise. What I'm saying is that in addition to his hitting, he is a total ballplayer. The guy just does everything well. Can anyone honestly deny that?

I'll use another example (which is sure to rankle die-hard Red Sox fans). Without question, Manny Ramirez is a solid hitter. Pure and natural. When he's on, they don't come much better. Okay, let's say for the sake of discussion that he and A-Rod have IDENTICAL batting stats this year. Now who do you think would have a better shot at MVP? Manny or A-Rod? Keep in mind that I chose Manny because despite his assists, he is a below average outfielder. Most of the time, he doesn't have a clue how to run the bases. Often lacks hustle. And is often in a time warp. With that in mind, for MVP wouldn't you choose someone who does it all, rather than someone who matches hitting stats - but lags behind on everything else? Think about it. It's only common sense.

Manny all the way... :jester: Only kidding..... :rollem:

Under this same scenario, what if the Red Sox are in 1st Place and the Yankees are in 3rd. Then who would get it?

You also have to take into consideration how Valuable the stats were to the teams Success. I stated earlier that the Between Papi and A-Fraud, whoevers team makes the playoffs is probably going to be the deciding factor.


Of COURSE if he gets MVP his hitting will be the primary reason. No one's saying otherwise. What I'm saying is that in addition to his hitting, he is a total ballplayer. The guy just does everything well. Can anyone honestly deny that?

I'll use another example (which is sure to rankle die-hard Red Sox fans). Without question, Manny Ramirez is a solid hitter. Pure and natural. When he's on, they don't come much better. Okay, let's say for the sake of discussion that he and A-Rod have IDENTICAL batting stats this year. Now who do you think would have a better shot at MVP? Manny or A-Rod? Keep in mind that I chose Manny because despite his assists, he is a below average outfielder. Most of the time, he doesn't have a clue how to run the bases. Often lacks hustle. And is often in a time warp. With that in mind, for MVP wouldn't you choose someone who does it all, rather than someone who matches hitting stats - but lags behind on everything else? Think about it. It's only common sense.

This might be a good time to take a step back. As I understand it, the baseball writers choose the MVP based on that ballplayer's "overall contribution" to a team's success. My point is that whether the team finishes in 1st or 3rd shouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor in making the choice.

<A personal note> While I've been a "John Q. Average" fan of baseball for many years, I'm not a fan of any particular team. I'm just one of many who simply enjoys good well played baseball - no matter which team. Being this kind of fan makes objectivity fairly easy. (Certainly less stressful, too.) But needless to say, it doesn't guarantee having all the right answers, either. Anyway, with that in mind, I really have to wonder... if A-Rod had been signed by the Red Sox when they had the chance, and if he was at SS right about now instead of Rentaria, would he still be receiving all the criticism many Sox fans lay on him? I think not.

On a lighter note. Today happens to mark the anniversary of "the catch" made by Willie Mays off Vic Wertz back in the '54 WS. I happened to catch it live on tv when I was a kid, and it was/is one of those baseball moments you never forget. I'm guessin' most baseball fans who were around at that time would probably agree.

I actually have 2 favorite teams

The Red Sox and Whoever is playing the Yankees. :D

I will admit I am SLIGHTLY Biased..

And in all honesty I didn't want A-Rod for Manny when it was 1st announced...

as has been stated on this board MANY Times....Let just agree to disagree.....and watch what should be a great week of baseball

quote: "...and watch what should be a great week of baseball"

Sounds good! But now it's time to re-spool the ol' Abu-Garcia 7000, 'cause I have high hopes.
<insert hopeful and smiling icon here>

I actually have 2 favorite teams

The Red Sox and Whoever is playing the Yankees. :D

I will admit I am SLIGHTLY Biased.

And in all honesty I didn't want A-Rod for Manny when it was 1st announced...

as has been stated on this board MANY Times....Let just agree to disagree.....and watch what should be a great week of baseball



I like both teams and will root for the team that gets in!!!
Besides, who cares about baseball, the Bruins will be playing soon!!!

HE DID IT AGAIN!!!!

Yeh, sweet! I just happen to be in Baltimore tonight and went to the Yanks/O's game. Boy do I hate Yanks fans, they were so obnoxious. They were sweating it once Manny and David hit bombs to tie it up. Once David won it for the Sox, the looks on their faces :bl: ..... Priceless!

I like both teams and will root for the team that gets in!!!
Besides, who cares about baseball, the Bruins will be playing soon!!!

oh the ruins..always make the playoffs and fold in the first round.. :bc:

....And he does it yet again....This guy is amazing this year.

A homerun to tie it and a single to win it....unbelievable.

Why Minnesota ever let him go is a mystery.

They Quoted Tori Hunter saying the exact same thing....

Unfortunately, if you look at the stats, A-Rod should be MVP. I hate A-Rod and he is not a clutch player like Ortiz.

MVPapi- 27/40 homeruns have either tied or won the game this year...pretty amazing that he has been responsible for that many wins. I know he doesn't play the field but it is phenominal what he's done.

Unfortunately, if you look at the stats, A-Rod should be MVP. I hate A-Rod and he is not a clutch player like Ortiz.

Your analysis would be good if the award was named "Player of the Year". However, there is absolutely no question that Ortiz has been more valuable to the Sox than A-Rod has been to the Yankees.

In order to be MVP of the League, you oughta at least be the MVP of your team, and there is no question that both Sheffield and Giambi have delivered more game-changing moments for the Yankees than Rodriguez.

And the real MVP of the Yankees is Aaron Small. 10-0 since coming over at the trade deadline. Then there's that skinny guy in the pen who wears # 42..... ;)

Your analysis would be good if the award was named "Player of the Year". However, there is absolutely no question that Ortiz has been more valuable to the Sox than A-Rod has been to the Yankees.

)


Mike,

You are correct but I don't know if the writers are going to think the same way. I hope that they do. We will see what happens after this weekend.