Got Spots? :doh:
complete with park here, stand here, and cast here..
great for the Mc'Fishermen....
Rhody Guys, I feel your pain.

wow, is the article that detailed? i don't get that magazine, and they don't sell it anywhere near me here in southern NJ, but i'd be bent if they did an article that is super specific. one of the two major saltwater fly fishing magazines just had an article about the western coast of CT that was super detailed. it's one thing for a publication to point out how and why, but exactly where is another issue altogether.

by the way, once i get a copy of October's OTW, who wants to join me in RI? :rotf3:

thats what happens with all the internet experts out there . all of a sudden they have writing skills . So they give up the info that someone else told them . Its not all the writers just some of them .

I like the writers that give how to info .

Chris, it wasn't an internet writer :(

I could not belive what I was reading either, and it wasn't just RI :doh:

If a spot is common knowledge, that is one thing mentioning it but to take ya by the hand and explain what to throw, when and where, that's a bit much :bsod:

has changed............. :doh:

OH well..

The past year and a half I have noticed the OTW has been doing this
to many out of the way spots. It just isn't right let these newbies find
there own spots, do the leg work

i havent seen it yet who wrote the article?

Steve McKenna

oh boy... :(

I dont subscribe, can someone relay the info. on ri via pm. :rotf3:

Ron Powers from OTW does it month in and month out....burning all the south shore spots...he is a jackass! :mad: Lays out the entire where to park...where to go, where not to go....how you shouldn't be there but do this anyway!!! :mad:

somebody has to talk to that boy :hang: :behead: :gorez: :nailem:

:bsod: :exp:

So which writer is the "Hero"????? :exp:

WoW - what is that guy thinking :huh:
The only thing missing are the 8x10 color glossy photo's, hand drawn will just have to do.

Why did he do it?

Speculations;

Axe to grind with someone or thing?
Doesnt realize what he did?
Doesnt care?
Why did the editor let that get out?

Better install a deli counter number machine... "Spot open for number 74, anyone got 74?" :hs:

I wonder if he is listing all the places he used to fish and omitting the spots he fishes now. I saw a post once by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, steves fishing buddy, that was spot specific and his reason was that he could be specific because he doesn't fish there anymore..........

I got mine today and was floored by it. I even showed my wife, I just could not believe what I was reading.

Anyone try and find the good color sluggo's after the last OTW article on them :hs:

I guess they are like any other business, and need to sell magazines to a large demographic. Lets face it, most of the guys that fish aren't all that serious or comitted, and this will appeal to them in a big bad way.

Reminds me of the pre-tied striper bait hooks I got for xmas one year from a well meaning relative who knew I liked to fish. Hey it says striper on it, that must be what he needs.

Next thing you know those spots are gonna look like the east end of the canal on a saturday night.

Time to break out the lantern boys, it's getting dark..

The new OTW hasn't shown up in the shop yet.

And I'm scared to even look in it when it does.

No one wants to let us who don't have our copies yet know who the fool is? :behead:

No one wants to let us who don't have our copies yet know who the fool is? :behead:

Did you read the whole thread?

bigfish, read the thread again, it's here :nailem: :thanks: :sick:

Look up a few posts Bigfish

bigfish, read the thread again, it's here :nailem: :thanks: :sick:


No wonder Larry has so many posts :laughs: :laughs:

Got it...sorry missed that post! Thanks...what a cheesehead Steve McKenna is! :behead:

quoted by nebe: well i had a freind read it to me over the phone.. im not pissed at all.

those spots are 'has been' spots. kinda like some of the old spots you read about on the cape that no longer produce like they used to.

if anything i am glad, as it will send the googans in the wrong direction.

Steve is no fool.. i fish with him occasionally and while i am surprised at this, i'm not going to loose sleep over it.
__________________


come on nebe, when's the last time you fished at the knob?
I understand what you are saying though.
It's still surprising to see it all laid out you have to admit.
alot of people are gonna be pissed off, what about trash and parking issues that can happen when crowds show up because of this?

good point, i should say that the 2 spots close to me have been slow producers for the past 2 seasons.

I guess the key to the game is to stay off the map and avoid any areas where people already fish.. 'make your own spots'.. kind of like bassmaster's 'make your own reports'

i will have to read it in person though.

Most places he mentioned are well known, by name, the thing that got me, was the detail, and the hand drawn maps with the X's,. and the park here, stand here, cast here, 5 spots to better your chances at a forty this fall :yak: ....
is he trying to divert a crowd, if these spots are passe as ebay, er, nebe (;) )
said?
A generic mention of a place, fine, but 8x10's with circles and arrows, and a paragraph on the back explaining the circles and arrows :huh:.. c'mon (apologies to Arlo Guthrie for stealing his line)
One thing to steer someone in the right direction,but, this was waaaay too explicit, and like Slip said, do these area's need more pressure, traffic, litter, and increase folks ire over overcrowding, and what goes with that?....:huh:

well i had a freind read it to me over the phone.. im not pissed at all.

those spots are 'has been' spots. kinda like some of the old spots you read about on the cape that no longer produce like they used to.

if anything i am glad, as it will send the googans in the wrong direction.

Steve is no fool.. i fish with him occasionally and while i am surprised at this, i'm not going to loose sleep over it.

I agree w/ Nebe on his statement above.


I went to Steve's seminar on that was held at the Jamestown Striper Club. There were about twenty people that attended with me being the only one from S-B. There was a similiar seminar at the West Valley Inn the previous nite that I did not attend but there were 300 people.


I have yet to read the article but it must be the same information he described at the seminar.

I am applying this knowledge to better understand how to fish other locations that I'm presently aware of and those that I yet to explore.

Steve is a cool guy. There are worst things in life to bicker about then castrate a sharpie that is trying to better others lifes if they can make the connection.

At one of these spots there has been talk on this site, of parking problems already.

I havn't got my copy yet but regardless of his intentions it sounds pretty moronic if you ask me. What good can possibly come from being that specific?

Next thing you know, Powers will be including hand drawn maps too and GPS coordinates just to one up him.

Karl F, I knew someone was gonna jump all over the Arlo Guthrie thing :hihi:

Eben :doh:

well i had a freind read it to me over the phone.. im not pissed at all.

those spots are 'has been' spots. kinda like some of the old spots you read about on the cape that no longer produce like they used to.

if anything i am glad, as it will send the googans in the wrong direction.

Steve is no fool.. i fish with him occasionally and while i am surprised at this, i'm not going to loose sleep over it.


Eben - always remember, "has been" spots to one are "prime" spots to another. With all the constant talk about spot burning on this site, I'm surprised anyone would give him a break since he mentioned exacts vs generalities. One of them is definitely a spot I fish every fall and there is very limited parking to begin with. Just some food for thought.......

like BF said.....R.P. does it all the time...in VERY sensitive areas!!!....he just don't care.........just tryin to sell magazines, I guess...

RP is a tool! :gf:

I don't even want to read it.... :yak: :yak4:
It's getting harder and harder ...

otw needs to change or we need to stop buying it! :eek: :yak: :yak4: :eek5:

Steve is my partner and best friend, I cant sit here and see you rip the guy apart for something you all know you want SPOTS ! The spots he talks about are very well known and in now way "secret" or more importantly PRIVATE.

They all have public access and public parking and are for the most part already over crowded, I think his thought process on this was whats the difference? if there are going to be a hundred guys at a spot , they may as well at least fish it right. Sure some people are going to get pissed off, pile on the crap, look cool by saying what a spot burner he is etc, etc, etc..

Does he fish these spots anymore? nope, very rarley, would he have mentioned them 10 years ago? no way in fact he was pushed out long ago from overcrowding, you may occasionaly see him at the river but thats it.

The number one question he gets asked in the baitshop is about spot, 24/7 all people want to know is spots, spots, spots... So he gave them some, as for the kowledge he gave, If your smart, you would read it 10 times and apply what he has written, you may just get yourself a dream fish, If I was new I would take it as a blessing, you may end up shaking his hand.

So if your this unhappy and dramatic over this then be straight up and go see him at the shop and tell him to his face, stop knocking the guy on the internet when he has no defence here as he does not have a computer.

Steve has helped many people improve there fishing, he is nothing but helpfull at the shop, and does whatever he can to better someones experiance on the water....Lay off and take a time out , I think you will all see that those are spots that every googan with a surfstick has already fished... Its crap like this overblown thread that make me stay away from the boared :yak4: :yak4:

It also makes me sick that some of these people will smile to his face and then rip him here you, know who you are.

Go to Bed /// write thigs down // :gf:

As an occasional contributor to fishing publications I read this with more than a passing interest.I got a feeling after November otw my a$$ is going to be sore as much as Steve is reading this stuff.But I am getting ahead of myself.
I got these felling (and correct me if I am wrong) that spot burning is ok as long as the spots are not your own.Because when someone s talking about a rip off Montauk Point ,NY or Sandy Hook ,NJ you read it with drool in your mouth ,taking in every sentence and imagining standing in with stripers bumping at your boots.Written words take places you only heard of and makes them familiar .But when it comes to places you fish ,oh no.God forbid somebody even mention about their existence ,even if they are not as productive as they used to be.Send everybody to Cape ,I say.
I'll reserve my judgment until otw shows up a week or so ..........

Zeno - PERFECT!!! oh the horror, the horror... a fishing magazine that tells people where to fish. And at such "secret" spots too (!!!!). Hey I know - maybe the newspapers should stop being so site specific about the Red Sox and the Patriots and then I'll be able to get tickets! I used to go when there were a lot less people and I could get tickets easily, and now those damn papers keep talking about them and all those googan fans show up....grrr...let those googans find their own teams to root for, that's what I say. I worked hard to be a fan of those teams, and now I show up at Fenway and there are all these PEOPLE. I deserve to be there way more than those googans do. And the trash, lemme tell ya. :rotfl:

I'm still waiting for my september issue.. :crying: ..

So #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&..."burn the spots as long as they are not your own"..."and he has not fished them in years"....."apply what he has written and go there to catch a dream fish???" If there were dream fish there why is it your buddy does not fish there????? I recall not too long ago a certain someones spots got burned in a similar way and it was an issue for him.....well I guess take care of number 1 and screw everyone else is the moral of this story!!! :af:

You also were ripping people for helping and being generous with spots and information.....when it affected you it was a problem but since this does not...then its alright! Too funny!

The point is write about a general location as most of the writers do, but don't draw a detailed map, list parking spaces, give GPS co-ordinates......give the general area and let the dang fisherman find their own way....else how are they supposed to improve, be good at what they are doing and be the kind of fisherman you guys are always whining about???

Example.....Napatree....its a great spot to fish...go there and try your luck! :uhuh:

send them to the cape :devil: got spare

you're all a bunch of poofters

:usd: :usd:

seriously, I think the only guys upset should be the guys who call that area home and/or fish it "regularly".

All you dissenters CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION RIGHT NOW !

:jump:

seriously, I think the only guys upset should be the guys who call that area home and/or fish it "regularly".



:jump:
I resectfully disagree with that.
We all must stick together and have each others back.

Looks like we have another Tim Coleman on our hands. So I guess there will be two people bannished to Napatree.

right on the money fa18 :humpty:

Chris, it wasn't an internet writer :(

I could not belive what I was reading either, and it wasn't just RI :doh:

If a spot is common knowledge, that is one thing mentioning it but to take ya by the hand and explain what to throw, when and where, that's a bit much :bsod:


I havent even received my copy yet but just cause that one wasnt written by someone on the net . there have been and will be plenty in the future .

So #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&..."burn the spots as long as they are not your own"..."and he has not fished them in years"....."apply what he has written and go there to catch a dream fish???" If there were dream fish there why is it your buddy does not fish there????? I recall not too long ago a certain someones spots got burned in a similar way and it was an issue for him.....well I guess take care of number 1 and screw everyone else is the moral of this story!!! :af:

You also were ripping people for helping and being generous with spots and information.....when it affected you it was a problem but since this does not...then its alright! Too funny!

The point is write about a general location as most of the writers do, but don't draw a detailed map, list parking spaces, give GPS co-ordinates......give the general area and let the dang fisherman find their own way....else how are they supposed to improve, be good at what they are doing and be the kind of fisherman you guys are always whining about???

Example.....Napatree....its a great spot to fish...go there and try your luck! :uhuh:
spots I fish are private, hopefully that answers your question

Steve, has always been helpful the few times I stop into the shop. I havent read the article, I dont subscribe. But this seems like an issue worth reading, even if its for sng's

I'm a little short on time so I can't address this the way I want to.

I have not read the article yet so I can't go into detail on that but I can assume a few things from this post. Sounds like Steve went pretty detailed on spots, that is a shame, his spots or someone else's, its a shame. Someone is going to lose access and someone is going to suffer.

But while you are trashing Steve McKenna now, I guess you need to trash everyone else that talks spots too. So let's all throw Joe Lyons and Dave Pickering under the bus, Canalman, Powers, Flaptail, looks like Zeno has some spot embers coming soon, ooops Charlie Soares has diarrhea of the mouth lately, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& did a few in 5-6 years ago, Daignault - the original mass torch, wrote a book and made $$ by coopting others to burn THEIR spots, Tim Coleman (Sbass - TC is one of the good guys), Bassmaster, Mike P, et all.

Now, when you are done, go blame the Bait and Tackle shops too. I think Captain Don's has sent more people to Q in the past few years than any other source. Ballstons - what shop does not say "Balstons"????

Now that we are done crying, maybe we should address the root of the problem? PEOPLE WANT SPOTS!!! New people, old people, where are the fish at?? This is an over-generalization but you know what makes profit for fishing maggies? Boat and boat / fishing related advertisements, you know what makes people buy the maggies so they can sell the add space? SPOTS!!!!!!

I have talked to a few people (probably not who you think) that write articles for our two heroic local SW periodicals. There are more and more encouraged to write about SPOTS. Sure, give me a How-To, but be sure to add the where-to. SPOTS SELL! Sells magazines, sells books, sells website traffic. SPOTS SELL!!!!

People follow trucks to see where they are fishing because of SPOTS. It's all about SPOTS. Some of the nicest people turn into the shrewdest scum beacause of SPOTS.

What is the negative ramification of all this spot talk? ACCESS IS FOREVER LOST!!!! When a bunch of people park at X and leave trash, make noise, talk loudly at 3 in the morning, we put undue pressure on spots. It is only worse when it is on OTW or NEF just in time for the Friday crowd. And even some of the "smart sticks" from here make more noise than a heard of holsteins with their bells on. Trash, people, noise, disrespect - these are all eroding at our access. But it gets worse when things are concentrated because of an article in the maggie, or a thread on the 'Net.

You want to do something about it? Form a Coalition to stop spot diarrhea of the mouth. Tell the maggies to stop talking spots and encouraging, or practically demanding spot info in the articles. It is the CULTURE that needs to change.

But don't be a complete hypocrate and bash when odds are you have sucked up to people for spots or waited with foaming mouth for NEF or OTW to hit your mailbox and make that magical flight up into the library. Do something about the root of the problem and tell Bourque and Harvey to be far less descriptive on publishing specific locales. Or better yet, invite Gene and Zach to a lot of these spots when the floodgates open.

OK, old guy weighing in on the topic. I guess the First Amendment gives all of us the right to say (or write) whatever we want. That's why some of us went to war and fought for our Country.
I think that the issue comes down to one of ethics. Would I do it? No. Steve McKenna is a good guy but I am shocked by the article and the detail he went into. I think, in some ways, he has let down the RI fishing community that has supported him and his employer.
Bottom line, the spots he gave up will be crowded for the Fall run, but they probably would be anyway. I don't think that there is any material harm that has been done. I do think that he has done an insurmontable amount of harm to his reputation among the guys who have know and respected him for years.
It's a damn shame.

As solely a soco fisherman, this is very disheartening. My biggest problem is that he can write this article about the places he doesn't fish and have no reguard to the rest of us that do not have private property to fish on. If he wouldn't talk about these spots ten yrs ago, then why now? Because he has nothing to lose, his spots are safe. But, I have always respected him and listened when he spoke because he is a very knowledgable "old salt", but that respect just flew out the window and he seems to be just another hero....

Well, hopefully my OTW will be there when I get home. I for one would love to see OTW do a series on how to find your own spots, A sand beach guide with pictures of various soft structure, rocky areas, esturarys and rivers. Fishing spots are not that hard to find but parking spots are and are in short and endangered supply. For me a good spot will never be the one that is over publicized and crowded, but it might be close to it or even be it at the right time of night. I fish one of those spots in Maine and you should see the crowds come a few hours too late, especially on bluebird days, I don't see them out on the bar on a foggy night though or anytime when it's good fishing weather in my view.

I spend all summer learning a spot to have it "outed" since it's not fished by the author any more. great. I guess when you only fish private spots it doesn't matter to you anymore how it affects others. How would he feel if his public spots were published back in the day? I imagine he would not have been too pleased.

And to those comparing this to tackle shops burning spots... Telling (being generous here) a few hundred people "hot spots" is nothing compared to all the reader who read OTW.

I noticed a slight uptick in traffic after his seminars, now? Christ I can only imagine.

Thanks Steve I really appreciate it.

I guess the only saving grace is that after a few times getting skunked, The googans will go somewhere a little easier to get to (I hope).

I agree with Piemma's and Choggieman's take on this.


I have not read the article yet but I can only imagine what it says. My problem, as others above have said (choggieman), is the basic premise that it is OK to burn spots that you are no longer fishing for whatever reason because in your small world those spots are not worth fishing. Nebe said this, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& said this, others agreed, and it seems according to #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& that it was part of Steve's mindset in writing the article. Not trying to start an argument with you guys but that thinking is very close-minded and a little bit ignorant. Don't you realize that just because you don't fish them alot of other guys do? Do you think that because you think those spots are not productive any longer there are not fish there when you are not there? Maybe the reason that you stopped fishing those spots is because they became popular & overcrowded -- which is now even worse.

Sorry, I am not trying to be an A-hole, just giving my opinion & some constructive criticism.

Now, with that said, I have talked to Steve at the shop on many occcasions & seen him with customers and my opinion is that he is just a good guy who has fished alot and really takes pleasure in putting new & seasoned fisherman on fish. I really think his sole intention is to help people. Go talk to him - he is a genuine guy.

It is just a shame that the format he chose to use this time was in OTW and will cause problems at the spots he named. Unfortunately, as Piemma said, he is taking a beating on this.

i dont blame steve he gave OTW what they wanted its all about sales for them

Choggieman hit it on the head...he gives no regard to the folks who fish there! I don't fish there.....but I have seen a few of my spots torched of late....and one of them is private #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&.....torched in a magazine by the way! You guys who see nothing wrong with this....you only care about yourselves.....cause its not your spot! I don't fish Rhody but I care about the guys that fish that spot because now they have to pay for Steve McKenna's error in judgement for the rest of the season and maybe longer if the place fills up with uncaring jacka$$e$ who make alot of noise and pollute the place....loss of access!!!

Alright...I have weighed in twice on this subject and that accounts for about 620 pounds past my .02 cents worth......I got no problem with giving general areas...but keep the details quiet and let the folks earn their stripes! :btu:

i dont blame steve he gave OTW what they wanted its all about sales for them


right, I never heard that excuse before... You know the things someone will pay you for? I guess that makes it ok? What disturbs me the most is Steve seems like a very nice guy. Here's the way I see it:
either:
A. He REALLY needs the money (which I doubt but hey, who knows).
B. He made an error in judgement.
C. These spots were not HIS spots, so, who cares if they get overun.

(My money is on a combination of B and C)

You are castrating these "new" fisherman Eben by making it "too" easy for them...as I said give areas and let them earn their stripes....or "get balls" as you say!

look bigfish- steve is not the first person to do this. i could go out and buy Striper Hot spots and go hit the cape tomorrow

When someone burns a spot publicly (I don't mean you told your friend , I mean publishing it like internet , books , magazines , talks) its because of one of two things. ego or money (or both). Some guys its very obvious , they are chest pounders with no self control.

Some guys , its hard to figure out "why".

If someone who never displayed an ego problem is suddenly " telling all" by doing shows and writing articles , expect to see a new product coming from them , or they are doing charters or they are doing shore guiding....... Get famous , make money!!! Look for the money and you'll know "why".


The morals of it are easy. Yes , you can talk about whatever you want. However , among fisherman , burning spots is like talking about kissing your old girlfriends. Its bad form to "kiss and tell" and its bad form to "burn spots" in mass media.


Striper fishing was nearly wiped out by money as people fished commercially and the stocks disappeared. Striper fishing is now being wiped out by money as people blab to gain fame and the money that can come with it and we lose access to spots do to too much pressure.

Glad I got a boat.

My take on it. If you want to tell people about spots go ahead and do it and just ignore the bitching and lesten to all the thanks yous you'll get. If you want to keep things to yourself, then keep things to yourself. IMHO you guys who are complaining about this are just selfish, like little kids who want to keep everything for themselves.

I was totally shocked when I saw it, just shook my head and said I can't believe they burned it that bad.... Unbelievable.. :exp: :hs:

MakoMike, you just don't understand the access issues. More people (especially people who get there the easy way) means less access for everyone.Its being smart , not selfish.

I just deleted my posts above. I am friends with steve and i felt the need to defend him but i have to read the article first before i justify his actions..

When someone burns a spot publicly (I don't mean you told your friend , I mean publishing it like internet , books , magazines , talks) its because of one of two things. ego or money (or both). Some guys its very obvious , they are chest pounders with no self control.

Some guys , its hard to figure out "why".

If someone who never displayed an ego problem is suddenly " telling all" by doing shows and writing articles , expect to see a new product coming from them , or they are doing charters or they are doing shore guiding....... Get famous , make money!!! Look for the money and you'll know "why".


The morals of it are easy. Yes , you can talk about whatever you want. However , among fisherman , burning spots is like talking about kissing your old girlfriends. Its bad form to "kiss and tell" and its bad form to "burn spots" in mass media.


Striper fishing was nearly wiped out by money as people fished commercially and the stocks disappeared. Striper fishing is now being wiped out by money as people blab to gain fame and the money that can come with it and we lose access to spots do to too much pressure.

Couple things - Steve was shore guiding but that was an adventure of sorts and most went because they could learn technique AND spots. But that is kind of what it has always been about if you are the angler that wants to take a shore guide. Why do people hire Stezko? To see how and WHERE he fishes. To the best of my knowledge, Steve is no longer guiding, just keeping his previous commitments. And yes, Steve is a very nice guy and yes, Steve does offer good info to people, including those that are just starting out.

The problem, as I see it, is a problem with the culture of surffishing and the media that supports it and benefits from it. That problem exists here too at times as much as we try to steer off that course. Now the other problem in fishing, is that it is SOOOOOOOO damn alluring, everyone wants to find away to make a living at it so they can do it a lot more often. Some of you aspiring PLug Builders that plan to go "Professional", how much is your dream to be able to make money commercially selling plugs? I would love to open a tackle store and make a comfortable living here on S-B, but the model doesn't really work for me (I also thnk it would further erode this community). But for me, and I'm sure for some of you aspiring plug builders. it is a combination of a labor of love and coveted McDonalds Fryolator money that keeps me going. For Steve, writing an article is MickeyD's money to support the fishing habit (he ain't rich either). I wish he did not talk spots either but he may be in a position that he either gets the coin by throwing in or writing about spots or he doesn't get published. So he is making his small slice, like many building plugs, rods, commercial fishing for bass or fluke, working in a shop, becoming a Charter Service, tying flies, having an online store, the list goes on.


My take on it. If you want to tell people about spots go ahead and do it and just ignore the bitching and lesten to all the thanks yous you'll get. If you want to keep things to yourself, then keep things to yourself. IMHO you guys who are complaining about this are just selfish, like little kids who want to keep everything for themselves.

As for being selfish? Partly - yeh, it's tough to figure out a spot and then see it coughed up for the world. It is far worse to see a location that can't handle any pressure get over run by hordes of people, many with no regard for the surroundings. This is FAR more a pressing issue on the surf then it is in a boat in most cases. Look what the sticker problem has been at CCNS in years of late, due to overpbulicity. Look at how many more recreational nets are in the water at the Herring Runs, look at the 16 foot boats being in places they have no sense being in because of the chance of an epic blitz. Look at the shorts and sneaker wearing individual with a trout rod out on the Avenues in Gansett because he read something in a magazine. Yes, the media around fishing (including to some extent this site), is creating excessive pressure on the sport AND access with little responsibility for what is being written. People don't buy OTW or NEF for the conservation articles - they buy buy for the methods, spots, and content. People don't buy Striper Hot Spots or the OTW Shore Guide series because of the historical significance they offer - but for spots. Look in the Fisherman and see the stuff the shops put in for reports, it's all a grab for marketm get people in the door. Whether the info is factual, current, or on a rare occasion, honest. How often do you see shops saying that there is not much happening as things are slow? How often do you see three or four different shops putting in practically the same report?

There needs to be a dose of responsibility pushed into all of the fishing media. It ain't happening. Not good for sales you see.

Sheet - I'm rambling again :doh:

Makomike- some of us complainers are as far from selfish as it gets. But we are also the guys who put in the time and effort to learn by trial and error how to and where to fish. If I bust my azz to learn a new spot, and figure out how to catch fish there, how fair is it to have some guy who is done with the spot give explicit details on the exact ways to fish it , where to park etc...to anyone who can read? I think it is a good idea to give general reports, such as " fish in soco", but an explicit report does nothing but bring in every person who is too lazy to find out how to do it the hard way.
My biggest concern is with the increased traffic in these areas, the number of numbnuts who litter and bring lanterns and make lots of noise in residential areas, not to mention the poachers who take shorts, the drinkers and all the other people who give us true fishermen bad names. I can garantee the next time I step foot in anyone of the spots mentioned the litter will be out of control, the lights will be everywhere and the beer cans will be in every corner. This leads to loss of access to these spots and for us under priveleged guys without private property to fish, not only to we take the blame, we lose the spot.

I just deleted my posts above. I am friends with steve and i felt the need to defend him but i have to read the article first before i justify his actions..

Eben - past few months you have been posting and deleting quick (as have a lot of people). I think I am going to put you in "Edit Time Out" :hihi: - a joke...

:scream2: :bsod:

this is what happens when eben is home sick for over 4 days

Being someone who writes a bit, and being someone who's been flamed for it in the past (although not publicly and I thank him for that :) ). I have to say I have not seen an increase in pressure in those spots. However, my name is not Steve mckenna so people probably don't put as much stock into my articles as they do his. I will say that the magazines DO ask for spot specific articles and I have turned down many and I probably won't do one again. But what Steve did is unforgivable, I would understand if he merely mentioned the spots with some loose instruction, but this map business and the driving/parking directions is, in my mind, Taboo. So turn the key on the locks that close a few more of our ever dwindling shore access spots and know that you'll have him to thank when this happens and it will. Reading this post has taught me something too, and that is, if you write up a spot b/c you don't fish it, you could be really hurting someone else, and opening up a sacred place to people who clean out their trucks by throwing $#!+ in the bushes. Hopefully Steve will learn that lesson, the hard way, today. ;)

-Dave

bring's to mind an old saying" damed if you do and damed if you don't..

I'm an a$$ cause I won't tell.
He's an a$$ cause he did.

this is just the start of telling all and all for the $$..name in light's..chest pounding at it best etc. etc.....it's going to get worse before it get's better.

Again it goes back to the ethics of our sport. It's not so much about what was said. IT's that it was said.

All of you defending what was written, or implying those of us upset are "sour grapes" How would you feel if YOUR spot was burned in such graphic detail? This is the old "Not my backyard" mentality. And for whoever above reprimanded others for not talking to the author, I have a letter in the mail. I just hope it gets read.

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

:hihi: chef, your growing on me

Screw OTW.........I Don't Subscribe Anymore! Send a message that hits home and dump the Mag!

look bigfish- steve is not the first person to do this. i could go out and buy Striper Hot spots and go hit the cape tomorrow
like u know what your doing...........

:angel:

drive the beach in the day, find the holes, go back at night. needles mambos, bombers. any sandeel imitation.

your a nub

i learned that from your posts. :tooth: :whackin:

nub

i love you BM :grins:

I don't fish Rhody but I care about the guys that fish that spot :
That's what I say!
We need more of that.

I resectfully disagree with that.
We all must stick together and have each others back.

but if one doesn't fish it regulary than whats the gripe ?

I understand what everyone means about not burning spots. That's not right and OTW burned a spot. So, for sure, that sucks but if you only go there one or so times a year than whats the problem. IF YOU have special spots to protect than I most certainly agree, one has to work to communicate and protect the privacy.

Still Bassmaster is a puffter
:topic:

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.
You're right! More incentive for them to write about spots.
The mighty $$$$

All you guys crying on here about this , probally got another 1000 copies of this months on the water bought by people who wouldnt have ever read it.

Yep - Gene Bourque has got to be laughing and loving this. McKenna (who really is a nice guy and an helluva angler) gets to write an article that details things to the n'th degree, which pisses off the masses, and people flock to the stores that don't subscribe... They will have fewer maggies come back at the end of the month with no income, get 10% of their subscribers that let the maggie lapse to renew, and sign up another bunch of new people. All the while someone else will take the heat... Good for him and OTW but sucks for Steve. And I like OTW, but this is where I think the maggies are sacrificing access for profit and that is completely irresponsible.

I like Gene Bourque (I'm assuming its Gene in this case but I could VERY well be wrong). I respect him and think he's a nice guy but as an editor, he has just had an article published that will generate a lot of buzz where someone else will take the hit and the maggies will move a bit better on the shelf...

As for Steve - I doubt he knew what would come of this. He is not online and has little concept of what it is like on the 'net, I don't think he even owns a computer. But I would hate to see him made out unfairly as the bad guy in all of this as he is always helping out people, new and old to the sport. He is someone that does this, not for the coin, but to give a little back that he has earned over the years. He is always giving out help at the shop he works at, when you see him at the wall in spring, or when he runs across a newbie angler - he is always offering some advice. So please don't trash him personally - and keep in mind he can't defend himself here.

In my oprinion this article might not be the wisest choice for doing that, but I can tell you that I don't think it would be malicious... I have not read the article yet so I can't completely guage how it was but if it was as detailed and burning as it seems, then he was wrong for writing it. So argue the point but don't personally attack him on this, again - ARGUE the point.

I would also hate to see a lot of people that have chased spots, people, and reports throw Steve under the bus for what he wrote. I would also hate to see people that have praised his seminar and gladly soaked up that info or those that have seen him in the shop jump on him personally about it. Instead, jump on the culture that pushes this....

You're right! More incentive for them to write about spots.
The mighty $$$$ Dave - I don't think the paltry amount he got paid entered his thinking very much. It won't pay for gas for a month to fish those spots. It is more incentive for the Maggies to encourage it though. 'Course, this raises another question - how much is it worth in dollars to lose access to a spot that can't handle much public pressure? What is the price tag on a spot?

WoW - what is that guy thinking :huh:
The only thing missing are the 8x10 color glossy photo's, hand drawn will just have to do.

Why did he do it?

Speculations;

Axe to grind with someone or thing?
Doesnt realize what he did?
Doesnt care?
Why did the editor let that get out?

Better install a deli counter number machine... "Spot open for number 74, anyone got 74?" :hs:

I think it was: Doesn't realize what he did.

Why did the editor let that get out? Hmmmmmm :hidin:

Zeno - PERFECT!!! oh the horror, the horror... a fishing magazine that tells people where to fish. And at such "secret" spots too (!!!!). :rotfl:

There has been a trend for spots, spots, spots, in maggies. I have talked to people that write for both maggies and they are encouraged to do spots - yes, that sells, but what about spots that can't handle the pressure? Is OTW or the Fisherman's profit more important than the loss of access?

Dave - I don't think the paltry amount he got paid entered his thinking very much. It won't pay for gas for a month to fish those spots. It is more incentive for the Maggies to encourage it though. 'Course, this raises another question - how much is it worth in dollars to lose access to a spot that can't handle much public pressure? What is the price tag on a spot?
I wasn't just refering to Steve, more about writers in general.
Can you put a price on a spot? I don't think any of us guys who are serious about this "Striper Catching sickness" could. Hell, most of us neglect our families to catch fricken fish :rotf3: How pathetic are we???

Yep - Gene Bourque has got to be laughing and loving this. McKenna (who really is a nice guy and an helluva angler) gets to write an article that details things to the n'th degree,... <snipped>

I am not so sure I agree w/your argument. I mean no one forced Steve (as far as I know) to write anything. If there is a beef, it (in my opinion) should be with him. Since as you say, it wasn't a big pay-day for Steve. It's not like he was blinded by the money or anything. Up to today I had nothing but praise for Steve. I agree w/all the good things that have been said about him. I can't help but think what his response would be if someone was so specific w/one of his spots. My guess is he would be pissed. Maybe not. Maybe he has so many spots that losing 1-2 is no big deal to him.

Maybe that gets to the root of the problem, or his decision. Perhaps he felt he was outing a few well known spots, no big deal. In his arsenal, they were trivial. To others, just getting started, they were our "Big Guns"

I wasn't just refering to Steve, more about writers in general.
Can you put a price on a spot? I don't think any of us guys who are serious about this "Striper Catching sickness" could. Hell, most of us neglect our families to catch fricken fish :rotf3: How pathetic are we???

We are pretty pathetic sometimes. Maybe Canalman learned from his very detailed Wesport expose a couple years back, and maybe Steve will learn from this one. The maggies are loving the pot being stirred - free advertising... And you know, someone will just do it next month, and the month after, then someone else....

:hidin: I write for On the Water. I try to keep the specifics of "Spots" ( I hate that juvenile terminology) I prefer locations to an absolute minimum, Anyone can pick up the paper and read on Thursday evening or Friday evening here on Cape what is going on where. All the local tackle shops are disgorging info in large doses. The two major Cape papers that I read, the Times and the Enterprise have weekely report sections that spew the same. The difficult task in writing is where to draw the line. New writers, and I was the same ten years ago when I started, sometimes need direction from Editors as to what may be appropriate and what not may be. The editor gives his or her advice and the writer is usually free to take the counsel as given and either retract certain items or leave them in. In the case of the article in question it is very apparent to me that, in fact, if there was no spots specifically mentioned, there would be no article. The author in question had to have made a conscious decision to go ahead and keep the article as was written and if he was as in tune to the general consensus of the local fishing fraternity, he had to have known the eventual outcome. The editors have always made me aware of the risk and benefits of pieces I have submitted for publication. I have to mention a few locations in my monthly piece but as for the specifics, that's where I leave the readers to thier own investigative skills.
I like to stress technique rather than locations. If your technique is up to snuff the location stuff will fall into place with a simple recon of the beach before you at the time. I don't write for the money, God knows it ain't much and the accountant at tax time keeps telling me that it ain't worth the extra cost for him to complete my returns with it included. I don't do it to beat my chest either. When I enter a tackle shop I usally keep my mouth shut, ears open and a low profile ( tough at 6"6'). I come into buy and leave. I don't like being pumped for info, followed or badgered for invites to join me fishing I fish because I love to, it's that simple and write because I feel I can help people as people have helped me and others have helped them before my time. A modicum of sharing is healthy, disgorging all for the sake of seeing your name is not. KNow one remembers much of the good anymore but the bad, ah, that is never far from wagging tongues. :read:

I admire they way most of you guys if not all of you about the way a response to this and other questions are posted. Many people here voice thier opinon and do so without flaming anyone, and I find that admirable.

I remember sitting in a bar in Edgartown about twenty years ago next to a friend of mine who owned a boat and with whom I fish with on that boat many times. I asked him a couple of times about shore fishing spots because I really do like that type of fishing more. He owned a house on the Vineyard for a long time. He became annoyed after awhile and said find them for yourself very abrubtly. No one told me where to fish and it to hard finding the good spots. This was the same guy who would take me out on his 27" dual inboard boat anywhere I wanted to go, but when it came to burning his on shore holes, nada man, no way.

If you don't have to wrok at finding the spots you wont repsect them. If someone turns you on to all your spots you'll be too quick to tell someone else. I found the spots by searching, paying attention and keeping my eyes open. Learning to recognize the same vehicles parked in the same place quite often leads to a found hole more often than not.

As far as OTW burning good spots. If those spots they burn are the only places some of you/us guys fish then some of us/you are not to adventerous. OTW is the only magazine I have ever read that caters to people continuously that live at the levels we we all dwell. I mean does SWS write articles designed to lure people who earn less the 100 large ever anymore. Not.

Oh he just promoted it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JohnR who did TC buy his cod/blackfish #'s from this year...

I am not so sure I agree w/your argument. I mean no one forced Steve (as far as I know) to write anything. If there is a beef, it (in my opinion) should be with him. Since as you say, it wasn't a big pay-day for Steve. It's not like he was blinded by the money or anything. Up to today I had nothing but praise for Steve. I agree w/all the good things that have been said about him. I can't help but think what his response would be if someone was so specific w/one of his spots. Probably not as bad as ours as he has collected so many.

Maybe that gets to the root of the problem, or his decision. Perhaps he felt he was outing a few well known spots, no big deal. In his arsenal, they were trivial. To others, just getting started, they were our "Big Guns"

No one forced Steve to write it and he's not a starving writer, but he probably thought he was doing a good thing, or at least not realizing how bad it would be. I have not read it yet but I am preparing myself to be pissed at it (I'm sure the article will be great but that's the point - too good). And yes, I think Steve weas wrong in writing it if it is as detailed as some are suggesting. So, Steve should get some beef but I think people need to realize he may have effed up but he likely was not being malicious about it. What I am really saying is that we, as the angling community, need to be more responsible with access, and the commercial ordganizations that profit from the angling community - ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA - must be more responsible with the impact that results when they make a profit. So how much is access worth? What $200 an article?

i dont know why steve wrote the article.but i can tell you steve is a great person he has helped me and showed me some great spots and is always willing help anyone so lets go easy on him!

I think someone mentioned that Steve isn't on the Internet and probably doesn't own a computer. Come on!! What the heck is he writing his articles with? An IBM Selectric typewriter?

"I like to stress technique rather than locations. If your technique is up to snuff the location stuff will fall into place with a simple recon of the beach before you at the time."

I agree totally flap .

Steve probably did think he was doing good for others that dont know but lets see next months with his favorite spot with the eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one

thats fair !

or next month will have some internet hero killing another fishing hole .

Oh he just promoted it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JohnR who did TC buy his cod/blackfish #'s from this year...

SBASS - I have no idea what you are talking about. I no longer subscribe to the fisherman or OTW (though I debate but never get around to re-upping my OTW subscription). I think the lengths that the Fisherman goes through talking about spots and reports is to the detriment of the sport. I like and respect TC but I don't like how he puts up a lot of info on spots that are not his favorites, at the detriment of others. At the same time, The Fisherman is always reprinting articles from 3-5-10 years before when it comes to spots or methods and just throwing in new pictures. Sometimes you can tell what those articles are and sometimes not... Now this may have changed over the past year or so but I doubt it.

So you know, I am against spot specifics and have been so for some time. I think they are best handled from person to person and not widely publicized. My greatest reason for this fear is the continuing lack of access. I have gone to too many access issue meetings and read to much about lost spots to not give a damn about spots being reported in the media. That is why I tell people here to be very general about spots and not to be specific. to distribute the load and the pressure. There are more swinging sticks out there than ever before, more people owning property on the shoreline than ever before, and more outlets reporting and writing spots than ever before - this will come to a head sooner as opposed to later. This is why I say the CULTURE is the problem. It is just enhanced that the maggies are the ones that profit from it and most of us are too stupid or better, not caring about it to recognize the problem.

Flap - I respect you and your writing, I also respect your decisions on how you write and how you share. You are more of the example on what to do instead of how it is typically done. You also have a significant advantage over Steve when it comes to writing this. I think this is only his second article, the first being a How-To.

Oh - one more thing for everyone to digest, we have all seen many articles, several by people that are members here, on these spots like the River and the Island and the Channel. So don't attack Steve from doing what others like Joe and Dave and countless others, have done. Change the culture. Change the problem. Like the problem with a health bass population is not too much commercial fishing - that's the easy target - it is more than anything the lack of good bait in the entire ecosystem. Here the solution is not to attck Steve for an article (even wrong if it may have been), but that the culture that spots and access are the key to successful writing and profit instead of being protect for what they are, dwindling resources of access for the regular surfcaster. We are cutting are own feet off when we do this...

I think someone mentioned that Steve isn't on the Internet and probably doesn't own a computer. Come on!! What the heck is he writing his articles with? An IBM Selectric typewriter? Probably, or he wrote it out and mailed it in, or he used a computer at work. Now I don't want to say I told you so but remember at the beginning of the year when we had the PMs going back and fro about spots - see what I mean??

SBASS - I have no idea what you are talking about. I no longer subscribe to the fisherman or OTW (though I debate but never get around to re-upping my OTW subscription). I think the lengths that the Fisherman goes through talking about spots and reports is to the detriment of the sport. I like and respect TC but I don't like how he puts up a lot of info on spots that are not his favorites, at the detriment of others. At the same time, The Fisherman is always reprinting articles from 3-5-10 years before when it comes to spots or methods and just throwing in new pictures. Sometimes you can tell what those articles are and sometimes not... Now this may have changed over the past year or so but I doubt it.

So you know, I am against spot specifics and have been so for some time. I think they are best handled from person to person and not widely publicized. My greatest reason for this fear is the continuing lack of access. I have gone to too many access issue meetings and read to much about lost spots to not give a damn about spots being reported in the media. That is why I tell people here to be very general about spots and not to be specific. to distribute the load and the pressure. There are more swinging sticks out there than ever before, more people owning property on the shoreline than ever before, and more outlets reporting and writing spots than ever before - this will come to a head sooner as opposed to later. This is why I say the CULTURE is the problem. It is just enhanced that the maggies are the ones that profit from it and most of us are too stupid or better, not caring about it to recognize the problem.

Flap - I respect you and your writing, I also respect your decisions on how you write and how you share. You are more of the example on what to do instead of how it is typically done. You also have a significant advantage over Steve when it comes to writing this. I think this is only his second article, the first being a How-To.

Oh - one more thing for everyone to digest, we have all seen many articles, several by people that are members here, on these spots like the River and the Island and the Channel. So don't attack Steve from doing what others like Joe and Dave and countless others, have done. Change the culture. Change the problem. Like the problem with a health bass population is not too much commercial fishing - that's the easy target - it is more than anything the lack of good bait in the entire ecosystem. Here the solution is not to attck Steve for an article (even wrong if it may have been), but that the culture that spots and access are the key to successful writing and profit instead of being protect for what they are, dwindling resources of access for the regular surfcaster. We are cutting are own feet off when we do this...

Probably, or he wrote it out and mailed it in, or he used a computer at work. Now I don't want to say I told you so but remember at the beginning of the year when we had the PMs going back and fro about spots - see what I mean??

You sure are windy today :bshake:

You sure are windy today :bshake:

:hee: - well, two things caused that - spots - one of my pet peeves and I am home sick today with poops and pukes so I have more time on the soap box (I really do work bell to bell in my real job) - TMI, I know...

It takes a while to realize how damaging mass media spot talk can be. Lots of us learned back about 1997-1999. We spoke more freely then. Spots got overrun or access got shut down. We got burned and started saying less. I bet the same thing happens with Steve.


I would totally agree that Steve is a nice guy based on my limited exposure to him. I think he made a mistake to publish about spots. The guy has paid his dues and is known to be one of the best. If he wants to part with his knowledge , he's entitled to do so. I think when he gets a taste of just how big an impact a single magazine article can have , and factors that into his thinking about crowds and access , he may think twice about doing a spots article again and stick to the how to stuff.

The idea that its OK to talk about spots you no longer fish is somewhat risky. There are some who know ALL THE SPOTS. Get them pissed off enough by burning "their" spots and you may find "your" spots burned in the next issue.

Hey John, hope you feel beter, had that last weekend, never knew I could s**t/puke so much, it lasted 3 days!

I just got the magazine today and then saw all these posts so I just went and read the article.
I have debated the whole spot thing on s-b.com before, and I don't think its a big deal. I fish RI weekly and more often in the spring/fall. I fish well known, well publicized spots, always at night and almost always alone. I NEVER run into crowds. I avoid the bways and I fish spots I know produce quality and in some cases trophy fish. I think there are lots of fisherman out there, but when you starty factoring in nights, rough weather, cold etc. thousands dwindle down to tens. Then spread that out amoung the RI shore...
People will read this article, try the spots, get skunked and then go back to the spots they always fished.
Following "hot" spots is like stock market tips, once its on the street, its old news.
Is there really more to McKenna's article the Daignault has in Striper Hot Spots? I dont think so.

WOW....haven't got my new OTW yet....can't wait to see it for myself.

I might have a solution......Maybe some of you experts can write articles about some of my personal "hotspots".

Since I am pretty new to all of this and don't catch as much as the rest of you, perhaps my "hotspots" would lure the masses away from the real "hotspots".

Sort of like DIS-information.....

:laugha:

Not even sure if the magazines would know we were doing it? ie...every month release lots of "hotspots"....with maps and parking locations......some work....MOST don't.

Hmmmm......I may be onto something here.... :think:

a NEW magazine. :think:

Mine will have more spots than all the rest combined! Hell...if people are willing to spend TONS of their hard earned (or state provided) money on lottery tickets with the odds of hitting it BIG in the double digit millions-to-one, just imagine how many "fisherman" would buy my HOTSPOTS magazine....playing the odds of hitting a good fishing spot!

Need a nice looking cover-girl (err....person) too. Cause besides HOTSPOTS...the only other thing that sells magazines is...well...you know

sorry, just trying to get a laugh out of some of you on a tough subject.

As someone who has done a little writing as well, I took sometime and thought about this situation. I was peeved last night when I heard about it, but now that I've reflected I'm a bit calmer on it.
When I've written, I have always tried to keep my articles spot independent; I may have mentioned a general area or location, but never exact coordinates and always boat spots.
Am I happy with what was written? I havent seen it yet, so I dont know. I know steve only in passing, and know more OF him through the grapevine of chatty fishing partners. In QL, I've known him to be a helpful guy and always pretty nice.
I dont think there was malicious intent in this article, but again I havent read it yet, and yes I probably do fish alot of those spots at different times of the year, I'm not lucky enough to have private spots, but have always done OK with public spots, I learned to fish deeper in the night and generally I avoid crowds on the water. I've fished spots since I moved to SoCo from Aquidneck I 8 years ago, and probably dont know all the regulars other than recognizing a truck or slicker color..
Yes there will probably be a few more people there and yes 'old man' Iemma and I might bitch alittle more about the people, but with the hours we keep and the nights soon to be colder there will be less and less people out there anyways.
The only part of me that is peeved is the part of me that learned spots the old fashioned way; by fishing them, by asking a few questions to people in the know and through good old trial and error,, that part of me is a bit peeved that alot of people will have a much shallowed learning curve and alot more spots easily in their repertoire

Besides most of this will blow over this fall, any increased pressure will likely be back to normal in the spring or later fall, besides once the average joe going to a spot the first time leaves with a skunk, he probably wont come back...

Bryan

If you guys are not happy about it, then put your money where your mouths are, and write an email to Chris Meaghan the editor of On The Water:

cjm@onthewater.com

STOP BITCHING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

If you guys are not happy about it, then put your money where your mouths are, and write an email to Chris Meaghan the editor of On The Water:

cjm@onthewater.com

STOP BITCHING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

first one has to figure out what to bitch about, hehe. 10,000 responses later....

my whole beach got burned this summer and still nobody showed up.



:crying: :crying: :crying:

Beach - you're the excpetion to the rule - you're lucky to have a relative handful of people plying the beach at night... And its probably going to get real good for you down there now....

Beach - you're the excpetion to the rule - you're lucky to have a relative handful of people plying the beach at night... And its probably going to get real good for you down there now....

first front this weekend. Suppossed to have a high in the 60's. GOT TO GET THESE WATER TEMPS DOWN ! I AM SCARED TO SEND ANYTHING OF VALUE OUT THERE FOR FEAR OF THE FREAKIN BLUES !

Bone's and albies STILL here.....




:yawn:

I don't post much here, but since I live and fish in SoCo I thought I'd throw my two cents in on this topic. I used to wonder why I'd show up at a spot to fish and find it suddenly packed with guys who weren't there the day before, especially since the fishing had been slow. I started to figure out that there was some kind of communication network that I wasn't paying attention to (internet and print) and spots were being "burned". At first I'd get pissed there was some guy on "my rock" and I'd bitch to myself about the Massachusetts plates on all the trucks . . . but I'd eventually get over myself and go find another place to fish (I hate crowds). Eventually it led me to fish in places that were difficult to get to, not impossible, just inconvenient and sometimes uncomfortable. Throw in some darkness, bad weather and big waves and I rarely even see other people when I'm out now. I don't think my new spots are any better than the old ones, but the fact that I'm not crossing lines with the "bucket & lantern" crowd and I'm putting in some extra effort to fish beyond the "easy" spots makes the whole experience more enjoyable to me. When I go out tonight it will be not too far from some well-known spots, but just far enough that I'll work up a good sweat from trudging through soft sand in my cheapo neoprene waders to get there, and I'll probably be soaked from the rain as well. I'll have to wade thirty yards out to "my rock" and hopefully I won't take any waves over my waders on the way out (the wade out is always a pain in the ass, but I don't feel like such a jerk for calling it "my" rock when I finally get out on it). Chances are there won't be another soul in sight, despite the fact that conditions should be excellent. If I happen to spot the silent red blink of a fellow striperman's headlamp I can be certain that he's not worried about his spot being burned either.

I haven't read the OTW article (although I'm tempted to now), but it doesn't surprise me. If you fish a public spot with reasonable access and half-way decent fishing it's only a matter of time before the spot is burned. I think the same spots have been getting burned over and over for years . . . but then people forget and move on the next "hot spot" and around it goes. I don't think the public spot burners do anyone a favor in the long run, including themselves, but it's an inevitable part of the scene.

The googans who chase spots they read about on the internet or in a magazine usually don't know what to do once they get there anyway. Just think about how long it takes to really understand fishing from a single rock at a single spot. It can take a whole season of fishing a particular spot before you realize what it takes to catch anything other than a lucky migratory schoolie. Mr. Googan is going to get discouraged soon after he realizes that the black stuff on the rocks is slippery and that standing around in soaking wet jeans gets pretty cold after a while. He wonders why he hasn't seen or caught a fish in the whole two hours he's been there, even though the sharpie magazine writer said they pull'em outta that spot hand over fist. Eventually he leaves in disgust, but not before throwing his box of mackerel chunks and empty beer cans in the bushes (he doesn't want to smell up his truck, after all). The final insult is the old guy who yells at him for pissing in his backyard on the way out. No way he's putting up with this SoCo crap again, he hears they're bangin' 'em on the Cape anyhow, maybe he'll head up there next weekend . . . :hihi:

:hidin: I write for On the Water. I follow Bassmaster cause He is my god:
:bshake:

first one has to figure out what to bitch about, hehe. 10,000 responses later....

my whole beach got burned this summer and still nobody showed up.



:crying: :crying: :crying:
cept me :rotf3:

If you guys are not happy about it, then put your money where your mouths are, and write an email to Chris Meaghan the editor of On The Water:

cjm@onthewater.com

STOP BITCHING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Bill, Chris is the Publisher. Gene Bourque is the Editor. But yes I agree, spewing here isn't as good as sending off a letter or e-mail. They do cruise the sites checking on feedback as well though. They know what's being said, believe me. Hows the boat coming along?

I don't post much here, but since I live and fish in SoCo I thought I'd throw my two cents in on this topic. I used to wonder why I'd show up at a spot to fish and find it suddenly packed with guys who weren't there the day before, especially since the fishing had been slow. I started to figure out that there was some kind of communication network that I wasn't paying attention to (internet and print) and spots were being "burned". At first I'd get pissed there was some guy on "my rock" and I'd bitch to myself about the Massachusetts plates on all the trucks . . . but I'd eventually get over myself and go find another place to fish (I hate crowds). Eventually it led me to fish in places that were difficult to get to, not impossible, just inconvenient and sometimes uncomfortable. Throw in some darkness, bad weather and big waves and I rarely even see other people when I'm out now. I don't think my new spots are any better than the old ones, but the fact that I'm not crossing lines with the "bucket & lantern" crowd and I'm putting in some extra effort to fish beyond the "easy" spots makes the whole experience more enjoyable to me. When I go out tonight it will be not too far from some well-known spots, but just far enough that I'll work up a good sweat from trudging through soft sand in my cheapo neoprene waders to get there, and I'll probably be soaked from the rain as well. I'll have to wade thirty yards out to "my rock" and hopefully I won't take any waves over my waders on the way out (the wade out is always a pain in the ass, but I don't feel like such a jerk for calling it "my" rock when I finally get out on it). Chances are there won't be another soul in sight, despite the fact that conditions should be excellent. If I happen to spot the silent red blink of a fellow striperman's headlamp I can be certain that he's not worried about his spot being burned either.

I haven't read the OTW article (although I'm tempted to now), but it doesn't surprise me. If you fish a public spot with reasonable access and half-way decent fishing it's only a matter of time before the spot is burned. I think the same spots have been getting burned over and over for years . . . but then people forget and move on the next "hot spot" and around it goes. I don't think the public spot burners do anyone a favor in the long run, including themselves, but it's an inevitable part of the scene.

The googans who chase spots they read about on the internet or in a magazine usually don't know what to do once they get there anyway. Just think about how long it takes to really understand fishing from a single rock at a single spot. It can take a whole season of fishing a particular spot before you realize what it takes to catch anything other than a lucky migratory schoolie. Mr. Googan is going to get discouraged soon after he realizes that the black stuff on the rocks is slippery and that standing around in soaking wet jeans gets pretty cold after a while. He wonders why he hasn't seen or caught a fish in the whole two hours he's been there, even though the sharpie magazine writer said they pull'em outta that spot hand over fist. Eventually he leaves in disgust, but not before throwing his box of mackerel chunks and empty beer cans in the bushes (he doesn't want to smell up his truck, after all). The final insult is the old guy who yells at him for pissing in his backyard on the way out. No way he's putting up with this SoCo crap again, he hears they're bangin' 'em on the Cape anyhow, maybe he'll head up there next weekend . . . :hihi:

Good post - the only thing that really scares me is the last couple sentences - and that's what it boils down to for me in most cases, usually some recent land owner that has little tolerence or respect for public access and its hard to blame the person when Joe Twelve Pack has crapped on the yard and left the empties and bait wrappers. Sure that is a generalization but not too far from the truth...

cept me :rotf3:

that was a sad day indeed


:bshake:

John, you and LB are both right and that's what I think most of the irate surf guys are pissed about. It's not that some nitwit in jeans with a white bucket and a 6 pack is going to catch all the fish, it's the traffic that will be created by the spot being published. Yeah, a lot of us know that there hasn't been any good fish at the A-frame in years. The point is that if 50 guys show up there then there will be problems with trash, parking, noise etc.
That's the biggest problem with spot burning. Personally, I know that they won't "catch all the fish". No one has for 1000 years. it's the public perception that will be created by the nitwits.

you should all go back and read the article again this time pay attention to what steve is telling u and maby just maby u to can start catching fish to. Stop whining and start takeing notes u might learn something from the man. slamming a man for trying to help YOU catch more fish by shareing what he knows is pretty sad .STOP FLAPPIN START FISHING

welcome to the board ghost. strong words for your first post don't you think? not knocking steve's fish-catching abilities but there are more than a few guys on this board who also put up pretty impressive numbers time and time again. they don't need any how-to or where-to knowledge, because they've earned it!

I think the Ghost is someone from this board who does not have the nads to state that himself....first post? :bshake:

I am from north shore in Mass and I fish So.Co. in the fall, why? because 1) I want to extend my season, and 2) the chances of catching a trophy is great. now with that said, I fish about 7 different spots that I learned from other's. now there is no way I like to show up at some B-way and find 5 guys out of 12 wearing sneakers and not doing what everyone else is doing Ie rotation. I don't want to go down and land there fish or release it. I want to fish. but if you don't help them there going in the water. usually when I see this I go fish the beach or look for another spot. I don't like to drive for 2 hrs. and find 25 guys at a spot I planed on fishing at midnight. I guess what I am saying is "Lose lips sinks spots"

Rhody has an access problem as it is and putting it in writing is not right
it is the magazine's fault for publishing it not the writer,

This is in no way a bashing of Steve just my opinion on spot burning

you should all go back and read the article again this time pay attention to what steve is telling u and maby just maby u to can start catching fish to. Stop whining and start takeing notes u might learn something from the man. slamming a man for trying to help YOU catch more fish by shareing what he knows is pretty sad .STOP FLAPPIN START FISHING

Jim - I realize you and I are talking about you becoming a sponsor here on S-B but I do encourage open discussion. Knowing Steve for a few years and knowing how nice he is, good he is, and how much he's trying to give back to the community, a few years ago, he might have flipped if some spots are mentioned, and one or two today as well. While I don't want people slamming Steve, the topic is open to discuss. I'm not going to stop that.

You are pretty tight lipped about where you fish and while you write articles about all over the bay in your boat (good ones too), you don't publish GPS numbers of your favorite locales.

Maybe the difference is in the balance. Steve would hate seeing certain places talked about and Steve would hate seeing certain people in certain places at certain times. And Steve would really hate to see some places crushed by an onslaught of inconsiderate people - like all of us that give a damn about it...

So come in and discuss this of you want, and yeh, there is occasional whining. But there is a big can of worms when people talk spots. I imagine you'd be pissed if someone started popping your GPS numbers in articles too...

I think the Ghost is someone from this board who does not have the nads to state that himself....first post? :bshake:
Larry - your assumption is incorrect....

In almost every issue of OTW they burn freshwater spots maps, directions , parking...ect. This is nothing new. :crying:

Well, Well, Well...
My intention was not to Slam the author, I am sorry if my 2 previous posts suggest that. I am just saying that he was too explicit, and his editor shouldn't have let it go that far, seeing as I have learned through this thread it was Steve's second article. Never met Steve, but have heard of his reputation, kinda surprised he'd be so explicit.... spots, location, whatever... my primary issue has been, and always will be access, seen way too much of it lost in my lifetime, and I'm just under 50.
Anytime something like this comes out, and FD's Hotspots is a good example, although it is a 20 YO book written about fishing 30 years ago, most of it still rings true, and the impact of that book has gone on ad nauseum ever since.
But, anything to increase traffic, illegal parking, due to overcrowding, litter, etc, some can joke about it, but litter, bugs the hell out of me, and people in high dollar shorefront RE, that hate it even more. Those folks pay a premium in RE tax, so when they start calling and complaining, selectmen, PD's, etc. they are all ears.
Consider the impact before you publish, and yes Bill, I will be sending a wordy email, or snail mail to OTW...

John, sorry for the alley fight, not my intent, you wanna pull the plug, or lock this, go ahead....

Since this thread of OTW is receiving many reviews by fellow members, I would like to introduce an idea that will contribute to good fishing edicit.

I would like to see the tackle shops post in there shops a note stating "please do not litter". There should be a few other choice words in there such as "or access will be closed".

More importantly is that it should be in other languages.

I will be willing to put something together but I need your help.

1) Appropiate phrase but not offensive to anyone.

2) Translate to languages such as spanish, asian, etc. english if course.
By having other languages will get more respect from the people that
speak and read that language

3) Graphic design like a catchy border maybe flags.

I choose to introduce this idea of this thread because I know a seperate thread with no introduction will get lost to the bottom in a short while. Action should be taken soon.
I will be creating a seperate thread (Fishing access maybe closed "No Litter") for this but I will not want to do it alone and I need your help.

The final draft can then be on this web site for you to give to your B & T.

John, sorry for the alley fight, not my intent, you wanna pull the plug, or lock this, go ahead....

This has moved away from a beyotch session (for the most part) and if it stays a discussion it won't get locked. If it starts to be a b-session or a slam session it will get pulled or locked...

Wow, 7 pages, I have alot to catch up on.

Eben, I hope you feel better soon.

Wow. It’s amazing how much was written about an article that most seemed not to have read or gone to the seminar.
The irony is that this thread has probably significantly focused attention on the article and increased sales of OTW. IOW, your attention to this has helped burn those spots. Actually, there are even a couple references to other spots that were not mentioned in the article.
The hypocrisy is that many responders learned of “their spots” by being told, mentored on fishing them or followed seasoned fishermen by “noticing which vehicles were always there”, etc. This article is simply a matter of degree. Is it envy that those that considered themselves the privileged few are no longer as privileged as they wish they were? I hope not.
The reality – Steve wrote of 5 spots from Westport to almost Connecticut. That’s it, just 5 spots. If one of those very public spots is one you’ve been learning all season, you need to broaden your horizons. Fishing the same spot all the time? All season? I sort of feel sorry for anyone truly in that position, but whose fault is it for being a one trick pony?
For those that read the articles or went to the seminars they would have noticed that he also told how to fish these spots – GASP! Except that his first rule, and one repeated is that you need to fish at night for big fish. Is this going to be a problem? I know I run into lots of googans in the summer during daylight, but very few as the weather gets colder, and almost none at night. I rarely even see another fisherman late at night. If a fella shows up for a 3am tide after having walked 20 minutes in soft sand, I’m pretty confident that he’s serious about the sport and, if a newbie, willing to learn and work together. I don’t have a problem with that, and suspect that most here wouldn’t either.
Same thing with the access (which IMO, is the most important issue). Most of the spots have a ton of mixed use parking and/or a bit of a walk. Anything more than a hundred feet of walking and most googans are not interested. That leaves real fishermen. At night they are few and far between. I don’t have a problem with that either.
My point to all of this is that, like all other spots written about, it won’t amount to much of anything. It seems like the only spot burning that creates problems are spot/activity reports like “30 pound bass are being caught at X.” But even then, my experience is that it only affects fishing at X for a couple of weekends, and usually the bite has died then anyway.
That’s my 2 cents, which is probably only worth half that. :bgi:

Jim - I realize you and I are talking about you becoming a sponsor here on S-B but I do encourage open discussion. Knowing Steve for a few years and knowing how nice he is, good he is, and how much he's trying to give back to the community, a few years ago, he might have flipped if some spots are mentioned, and one or two today as well. While I don't want people slamming Steve, the topic is open to discuss. I'm not going to stop that.

You are pretty tight lipped about where you fish and while you write articles about all over the bay in your boat (good ones too), you don't publish GPS numbers of your favorite locales.

Maybe the difference is in the balance. Steve would hate seeing certain places talked about and Steve would hate seeing certain people in certain places at certain times. And Steve would really hate to see some places crushed by an onslaught of inconsiderate people - like all of us that give a damn about it...

So come in and discuss this of you want, and yeh, there is occasional whining. But there is a big can of worms when people talk spots. I imagine you'd be pissed if someone started popping your GPS numbers in articles too...


Larry - your assumption is incorrect....

Speaking of incorrect assumptions, Ghost2 is Justin the son... So Justin, please keep it open to a discussion - thanks....

John

Sometimes it only takes a few more people to ruin a spot where 2 people could have fished for years with no complaints.


The guy who has to make many trips to learn spots is going to appreciate it more when he finds a good one. He'll treat the ability to fish there as something valauble.
God knows who or how many will show up at the spots because they have a $5 guide (OTW Mag) to show them just where and how. The guys who get it easy tend to trash the places more.


I see it all the time. The guys who have put in their time are carrying out trash left behind by half a dozen first time fisherman at some spot that should have taken them 2 or 3 years to find and figure out. Thank god the Dunkin Donuts cups stack up or you could never handle all the trash they leave. :)

Anyway , its not the end of the world but I don't like the idea of mass media exposure of specific spots. I don't really care who's doing it , I just don't think its good for the sport.


I do think that the thread is excellent. Discussing the article and the access implications of naming spots too specifically will raise awareness and that is good for the sport.


As a moderator , I'm sure glad it was Steve who did this. If it had been #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& , this board would have been flaming for three weeks!! :) :devil:

As a moderator , I'm sure glad it was Steve who did this. If it had been #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& , this board would have been flaming for three weeks!! :) :devil:

I heard that #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& typed it for him :whackin: :jester:

I heard that #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& typed it for him :whackin: :jester:
Who is #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&? :uhoh:

who's #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& ? :uhoh:

who's #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& ? :uhoh:
I said it first.

Roger really gets it.
If you guys just sat down, caught a breath, and thought about it---you'd end up at the same place.
The thing I really worry about is what I hear people saying about this site---- "You can't have a discussion without mentioning a " spot" and then everyone jumps all over you and you never get an answer to your question,"
Maybe lighten--up?

Roger really gets it.
If you guys just sat down, caught a breath, and thought about it---you'd end up at the same place.
The thing I really worry about is what I hear people saying about this site---- "You can't have a discussion without mentioning a " spot" and then everyone jumps all over you and you never get an answer to your question,"
Maybe lighten--up? I worry about that too but I am also worried that spots are going to be more and more in short supply - regardless of where they are - and that we are doing a disservice to ourselves and the sport...

I just spent a half hour reading this thread. I subscribe to OTW and I enjoy most of the articles. However it seems some stuff has been over looked here.

The magazine has several sections in the back every month which give reports about different sections (and spots) in NE. Soco, block island, upper cape etc. If thats not spot burning I don't know what is.

I'm from the south shore of Boston. Do you honestly think I'm going to drive to rhode island or cape cod and scout spots not having any idea of where to go? Especially these days? Many of you are living in fantasy world. People who enjoy things like fishing, skiing, cooking you name it, want information and they will get it one way or the other. I'm sorry to tell you.

I want spots, I'm not ashamed to say it. I guarante all the sharpies on this board have more than one spot that was shown to them or they heard about. I under stand if you have a couple secluded honey holes etc. I have those too and don't want them burned (cough cough....Ron Powers). But you bet your ass I'm going to research well known spots, Pt Jude, Race point etc before I spend $63 driving down there only to find out I'm fishing the wrong tide and half mile to the left from where I should be. Maybe I'm not a true surfcaster in the sense that I don't snorkel and scout every spot i try but honestly i don't have the time or $ to waste when I can have information that will help me for $ 27 a year. I respect the water I don't litter, I don't slam beers and discard beef jerky wrappers but perhaps I'm not a pure breed

Maybe Canalman learned from his very detailed Wesport expose a couple years back, .

I slapped him real hard with my eel for that one. :whackin:
He learned... :rotf3:

Actually, I didn't get any flack for that one... surprisingly :rotf3:

Steve the boat and trailer are registered, just need to finish up some wiring.

I worry about that too but I am also worried that spots are going to be more and more in short supply - regardless of where they are - and that we are doing a disservice to ourselves and the sport...

There is also a fine line there too. Often, we need more fishermen in the ranks in order to preserve access that we currently have. Remember Black Point? OTOH, as is often pointed out, poor behavior at most little out of the way spots will get you thrown out, etc.

I have a solution.

I am going to write an expose' on Mckenna and #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&. i will list where they are fishing NOW with maps how to get in there and where they cast and submit it to saltwater sportsman. This will give it National coverage as opposed to only new england.


send me 20 bucks and i'll send you the rough draft incase they never print it :D

i cant beleive he mentioned the mussell bed. there is only parking for 2 cars :hs:

After reading this thread...

John brings up the MOST important point -

LOSS OF ACCESS!

No matter how you approach it, whether you're a week-end warrior or a daily dipper..."spot burning" or whatever you want to call it, lures the lazy. For every 1 serious fisherman who may learn from a write-up likes Steves' there will be 10 others just looking for some easy fishing...and from these 10, 5 will litter or raise enough havoc while fishing.,, whether it be an arguement with a home-owner or just making a loud entrance or exit to start the process of losing the spot.
Sure, some guys are just plain nice...and they have every right to share whatever they want with anyone they want, but one should keep such detailed information for a private conversation, not a broadcast message...

Lazy people need spots
Lazy people don't take trash home nor take the time to properly dispose of trash while fishing...it's too much work,,,just like finding your own spots or deviations of spots you've fished or heard of. Lazy people need spots. Lazy people will park in the wrong spot because it's closer instead of making the trek from safer parking because it's too much of a walk.

In case some of you haven't noticed, we don't ALL look at this sport the same way. You need to read deeper into the posts and who the postee' is...before even responding sometimes...most of the guys who are fine/OK with that write-up are still looking for unearned spots, lazy or just defending Steve due to friendship...to each his own. I think it was too detailed...way-so.

Just my $.02 . .. .I'm still learning - Mahalo!

Actually, I didn't get any flack for that one... surprisingly

You didn't gain any respect from me with that one... here's some late flack :whackin:

Nebe,

I have a few paragraphs written if you want to colaborate :rotf3:

Take a look at page 12 or so in this month's Saltwater Sportsman. Some guy from down south submitted a letter of complaint to the SS Editor because last month an article was written in SS burning (offshore I think) spots down there.

His complaint was the same as mine and many others in this thread -- it is NOT the fear that someone will catch fish, it is the fear that a spot will be inundated with fisherman causing all kinds of problems -- loss of access being only one of those problems.

The problem is obviously not limited to us striper-fishermen in the Northeast.

For those of you who keep saying that this spot-burning is not a big issue, you are sadly mistaken. And the not-in-my backyard attitude is similarly wrong.

send me 20 bucks and i'll send you the rough draft incase they never print it :D


You got a paypal account :rollem:

What do you think about starting a petition here and sending it to the Magazine?

Take a look at page 12 or so in this month's Saltwater Sportsman. Some guy from down south submitted a letter of complaint to the SS Editor because last month an article was written in SS burning (offshore I think) spots down there.

His complaint was the same as mine and many others in this thread -- it is NOT the fear that someone will catch fish, it is the fear that a spot will be inundated with fisherman causing all kinds of problems -- loss of access being only one of those problems.

The problem is obviously not limited to us striper-fishermen in the Northeast.

For those of you who keep saying that this spot-burning is not a big issue, you are sadly mistaken. And the not-in-my backyard attitude is similarly wrong.

Joe i read that last night and thought about this thread as well :D

Spot burning sells magazines

What do you think about starting a petition here and sending it to the Magazine?

IMO, a waste of bandwidth.

You're the publisher---ask yourself this---which would would rather have? 500 sharpies pissed off at you and threatening to cancel their subscriptions, or 20,000 extra sales at the newsstands to the newbies who drink up "spots" articles? Throw in the facts that you make more $$$ from newsstand sales than you do on 'scripts, and the 500 guys who cancelled will buy a mag off the rack when there's an article that catches their interest.

As John said---spots sell. Editors know this. And even if the editor is a sharpie himself, and knows the score, he has his marching orders on content from the publisher.

Bravo Joep and bloocrab! We think too much alike!

I had told myself I wasn't going to respond on this one, not because I felt I was one of "the lazy" who only take advantage of an article like this, which admittedly I have not received my copy, thus have not read, but I felt compelled to respond due to some of the posts I've read. I don't know Steve, but I know from what has been written here, I surely would like to meet him someday. Sounds like a knowledgeable, standup kinda guy. He did his job and wrote an article, and obviously from the responses elicited here, he did a very, very good job of it. People here are quick to say "That race of people ALWAYS keep shorts", or "The googans ALL litter and park in the handicapped spots". If we're to accept that statements about a majority or an entire type or race of people are true, then wouldn't you agree those type people I mentioned just before are probably not at all, or of such an insignificant number as would even spend the money on OTW, let alone read the article. I think those spots will probably be fine, if not wholly protected by some who have weighed in here.

their at the town dock in harwich right now if you want to talk to them.http://24.63.160.194/dsc01314.jpg

Attached is a copy of an email I sent to the publisher of OTW on my company email letterhead. No reply as of yet.

"Chris:
What the hell were you thinking when you published this article? The Stripe bass internet message boards have been alive today ready to burn your mag and lynch McKenna. Now, I have Issue 1 of OTW. I have always considered your publication to be honest, ethical and above board. This article changes my opinion.

I must assume that you published the article through pure ignorance regarding "Spot Burning". This has been an ongoing debate for months on the boards and your publishing of McKenna's article just lit the fuse. You CANNOT publish an article that names fishing spots and gives directions without expecting the general surf fishing population of that area to be up in arms. I think it irresponsible journalism not to take this into consideration before publishing this type of article.

I make the preceding points only because I do care about OTW and feel you guys should have been more civic/public minded in your article selection.
Comments?"

Very nice piemma, hope it is effective.
Now if Mr. Mckenna was warned of the repercussions of this article before he wrote it and it was published, does this mean he did so with the intent of burning the spots? If he was aware of the negative feedback that was to come, or at least he was told what may happen if this article were to be printed, did he do so knowlingly to make a point? As I have said, he always had my respect so I gave him the benefit of the doubt til now.

Good questions Choggieman. I have know Steve for quite awhile and I just refuse to believe that there was malicious intent behind him writing the article. I think it was just one of those brain cramps we all have on occasion when we say/write something we later wish we hadn't. I am certain that, given the uproar his article has raised, he wishes he didn't submit it.
I know I have been guilt of writing emails that I never should have. I now re-read every email I write before I send it.

Steve is the most generous guy out there.. he would give you the shirt off his back if he thought you needed it. HE has never held back when i have asked him questions, even questions that i felt uncomfortable asking, as i knew that maybe only he knew the answer.

That being said, i just believe it is his nature to share.

I love the guy and i hate to see everyone ripping on him, but in the same light i am saddened that he would mention such sensitive spots in a region-wide publication.. I know his article will effect the way i fish this fall and next spring. :(

I agree with Piemma :)
If I could only take back some of the things I have said /done/wrote in my life I WOULD GROW WINGS
And would be sitting on the right hand side of the big Guy!

VB

ps. or maybe that would be me, the guy at the gate ! lol

I waited to jump in on this until I read the article, which I did last night. While I agree with the general sentiment regarding access, and the issues of overcrowding, I fail to see why this article is that different from articles and seminars I have seen in the past. Yet this one has caused such an uproar.

Nearly every issue of OTW has a chart of a lake, stream, piece of coastline that gives up spots with detailed tactics. Last month was an article on tuna fishing the Mud Hole that was quite detailed. Gene Bourque gave a seminar on the Elizabeths at the Mass Bass show with detailed charts, casting spots, anchoring locations and techniques. I remember a Fisherman article on Barnstable Harbor and the Vineyard. None of those created this response...

I've read striper Hot Spots, OTW, the Fisherman, SWS and more for years and never felt the urge to jump in my car and try them out. Instead I read about them and think about how a certain technique applies to my areas, spots, and tactics. Maybe a couple of them applied to me and I got a head start. I can't believe I'm the only one doing that. I have to believe that the vast majority of readers will be the same. A trip to RI/CT is a significant investment in time, even from the South Shore of Boston (me), that I simply can't commit. I'll think about how Steve fishes those spots and what is common to my areas and hopefully learn something.

I agree with an earlier point that if you bump into someone wading 200 yards to a bar at 2am in some remote place, more than likely they are not your run of the mill googan. If it were my spot, I'd much prefer that person to be somewhat educated and not sitting soaking bait preventing me from eeling.

Why is this article so different? Is it better if a bunch of googans discover this spot on their own and soak bait where the sharpies all want to plug? At least now they know the techniques and etiquette. What is it about the surf that has this extra standard applied to it? I don't hear the boat crowd screaming about the boat spots.

I think the reason this article has raised such a stink is because it's not one spot...it's a whole coastline...

Its amazing what this article has caused, but it goes on every day. I was just visiting another website from connecticut that encourages very specific detailing of spots and how to fish them. Funny thing about it, a lot of reports are on soco. I have fought on that site before to restrict specifics to no avail. It got to the point where an individual posted mapquest directions to the spot in question. But here we are P.O.ed about an article when there is a whole website dedicated to spot burning. There will most likely never be a reprint of this article, but that other site has for years has burned and burned and burned.
As johnr has said, it is our media. The network has the flaws more than just a few individuals. It seems that the media has taken to catering to the generation of "want results right now -without the effort". So, do we blame the media, or do we blame the direction society has gone? I know too many young people that do not want to learn how to do something the correct way, they want to do it the easiest and most instantly gratifying way there is. Instant results with minimal effort. Whats easier than read the curent report and head in?The media has to make sales, so maybe it designs its offerings to fit what the generation I speak of wants, not what we old school fisherman want.

I think the reason this article has raised such a stink is because it's not one spot...it's a whole coastline...

thats why I am kind of laughing a bit but John was right when he said it could screw up access if a LOAD of fisherman showed up and started being a bunch of jack-offs....

but I guess that is already happening on that coast..... :bl:

Did you learn everything about surffishing on your own? Or did you ask people what worked for them and maybe even where they fished?These are honest qustions.A lot of these googans who burn the hot spots bring in quite a bit of $$$$ to the local economy. You may not like it but it is certainly true.Maybe it wasn't a good idea to name these spots but it happened.There is certainly quite a bit of whining going on this board.

My nj friend will be pumped.plus I won't have to show him all the spots myself.he don't shower enough.now all u guys quit ur bitchin.I never see anyone when i fish ur all a bunch of sandsissie's an wouldn't get out on a rock anyways.its alot of posts complainin like a bunch of women.


:whackin: That was NIB :scatter:

What is it about the surf that has this extra standard applied to it? I don't hear the boat crowd screaming about the boat spots.

If you had been within a mile of the shop when news of the BFT hit the papers this year you would have heard me yelling.

The essence of spot burning is when the people who regularly fish it feel in any way that their current fishing has changed due to the burn. That for damn sure happened with the bluefin, I was out there alone for a good 3 weeks till the lid was blown off it.

Time will tell how bad of a burn this is.

The vast majority of "class B googans" will not know about these spots because they probably do not subcribe to or buy OTW or even read for that matter.

Just curious,did the traffic at these spots increase in the last month? I haven't seen the article, but if it is speaking about the 5 spots to get a 40 lb striper,Steve gave that same seminar at the last RISAA meeting in August.There were a couple hundred people at that meeting Iwould say . If you haven't already noticed an increase in fishermen there ,maybe there isn't so much to get all worked up about.

While I don't support or encourage spot burning in the media, I think that it has been summed up several times throughout this thread. While spots may get a little bump in traffic after an article, it is usually from googans who don't know what they are doing and will not come back again. So it always is a gamble with spots, but as just mentioned above, the crowds are likely to experience somewhat of a bump and then go back to the regulars for the most part. I have seen it happen time and time again year after year. The Fisherman has been doing it for 30 years, now is no different.

i just read it...

If he had a soul, its gone now....

i just read it...

If he had a soul, its gone now....


and who is this, nebe? or bin?

:usd:

this is eben...
Mr. nibblesworth is on the prowl looking for bigguns in the suds// :eyes:

hope you feel better soon.

thanks slip. i am actually.. i got a ways to go, but im feling better than i did last week.

Just curious,did the traffic at these spots increase in the last month? I haven't seen the article, but if it is speaking about the 5 spots to get a 40 lb striper,Steve gave that same seminar at the last RISAA meeting in August.There were a couple hundred people at that meeting Iwould say . If you haven't already noticed an increase in fishermen there ,maybe there isn't so much to get all worked up about.

Joe - there is a difference in a seminar to 50-200 people versus a widely read maggazine. He is not the first to do it - everyone of of those spots have been written about at least once (with the possible exception of one) in the past few years. But what is the pressure point that a spot gets shut down? When people see that one place to park is private and disregard the rules?

Please keep in mind that 70% of the people that read the article and follow and do it are not likely the problem, its the 30% that I'm worried about...

I just read the article..unbelievable. Two spots that I fish consistently were burned. It's bad enough that Steve writes about one spot every week in the fisherman and he goes ahead and draws detailed maps to it. How does he benefit from doing this? From what I have read he is a nice guy. Unfortunately,he has angered many fisherman in writing this article. I'm sending an e-mail to Gene Bourque voicing my displeasure. :doh:

Did you learn everything about surffishing on your own? Or did you ask people what worked for them and maybe even where they fished?These are honest qustions.A lot of these googans who burn the hot spots bring in quite a bit of $$$$ to the local economy. You may not like it but it is certainly true.Maybe it wasn't a good idea to name these spots but it happened.There is certainly quite a bit of whining going on this board.


spend a little more time contributing your opinion and we might listen to your percieved opinion on other contributors "whining".

Whine, complain, etc. It is all constructive commentary.

Got It ?

When I read the first couple posts, I felt most of you were a bit out of line as these were not exactly secret spots. My magazine came the next day and MY favorite spot is listed as Number 1! Dohhh!!!!. I was pi$$ed at first but as far as that particular spot goes, I think Bloocrab has the right concern. It is a big area to fish and I have never seen more than 2 other fisherman out there, usually have the place to myself. If the magazine attracks some diehards that are willing to take the walk and learn some tough water, I will be happy to fish with them. My concern is the parking issue we have been having recently but I honestly don't think the lot will be full this weekend because of the article.

I think the postman must be reading my copy because I haven't got mine yet. and while reading this I wonder what is really in print.

Gene Im gonna tie up up and put u on the RR tracks on monday :zup: :devil:
Burn RI Haw HaYou all preach BullSh!t
Your all worthless info spot suckers

:smokin:

I just got the issue today. Those that know me know that I do 95% of my fishing by boat. I read your posts with nothing but respect for the knowledge and love that all of you have for surfcasting. I have meet some pretty cool people on this site. I for one can't imagine climbing over rocks and logs and crap in the middle of the night to catch a striper. BUT I RESPECT IT. I read all the BS you guys put up with for the love of the surf and it kills me that Steve did this, I don't get it, he is a good guy and is very skilled. WTF I think that he may have had a brainfart. Hang in there you bastards and I will wave to you as I fish thsoe sites from my boat. :jump:

Gene Im gonna tie up up and put u on the RR tracks on monday :zup: :devil:
Burn RI Haw HaYou all preach BullSh!t
Your all worthless info spot suckers

toothless sand sissy.

hows your barbie jeep :yak: :devil: :zup:

<first post>

Hi guys. Someone left the back door unlocked so I thought I'd mosey in.

'Just happened to stumble on this site and found it to be very interesting. Especially this thread. I'd like to make a comment or two - if it's okay.

I can certainly understand the anger some of you feel because of Mr. McKenna's article. However, it's done. It's over. And if I felt as strongly about Mr. McKenna's article as some of you do, I'd get together with him for a sit-down, and ask him to explain why he would reveal this kind of info' to the general public.

For the most part, it sure sounds like Mr. Kenna is well respected not only for his knowledge of the sport - but for his willingness to help others as well. For that alone, I think he's owed an opportunity to explain himself. I say, "explain himself", because it's doubtful that Mr. McKenna didn't know his article would spur a controversy among the die-hards. On the other hand, Mr. McKenna doesn't sound like a malicious individual. All the more reason to have a face to face discussion with him and urge him to be a bit more discreet in the future. Just my opinion.

For what it's worth, this is my first time back into SW fishing after a several year absence. And I recall vividly how an old fishing buddy of mine was rippin' because he confided in Dave Pickering by telling him of a favorite spot - figuring Mr. Pickering would keep it close to his vest. As it turns out, the very next time my buddy visited that spot, Mr. Pickering was there with 2 of his buddies. My friend went ape. Word of this spread very fast, and of course with predictable results.

I read all the posts in this thread. And I thought the idea offered by 'redsoxticket' was a good one. Signs in bait shops about littering - and in other languages as well. There is absolutely no reason for people to behave like slobs. I'll say this... I make no bones about telling someone who I just saw throw trash on the beach or where ever to pick it up. There were times when they looked at me as though I had 2 heads, but it doesn't matter because each time they picked up their trash. Sometimes you just have to do what you got to do. And yes, it's a pet peeve of mine as I'm sure it is with most of you.

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to voice a couple of opinions.

<first post>

I'd get together with him for a sit-down, and ask him to explain why he would reveal this kind of info' to the general public.


I'm up for that. Are you and anyone else?

Quote: "I'm up for that. Are you and anyone else?"

I don't know any of the players at this point, but I'd still be glad to join in. Provided, of course, that the discussion is designed to prevent future problems - and not intended as a bash-fest.

If OTW is going to publish spot burning articles perhaps they could also include companion articles or an obligatory disclaimer that will help their googan readership understand the finer points of surfcasting that often get overlooked in the stampede to the latest "hot spot".

As many posts have already pointed out, sharpies aren't concerned that the googans will catch all the fish, the main concern is that they will conduct themselves in such a way that they will be a nuisance to fish around or they will honk off adjacent property owners to the point that our shoreline access will be threatened.

It's been my experience that the googanesque "bucket & lantern" brigade is made up of mostly guys who want to catch some fish and be good sports in the process, they just don't know the ropes yet (I'm speaking as a former googan myself). I'd like to get the ball rolling by suggesting a few breaches of striper etiquette that OTW can use in their effort to educate their readership on the finer points of our delicate obsession.

** Don't litter! That means don't leave behind ANYTHING that wasn't there before you got there, i.e. bait containers, beer cans, balls of mono, coffee cups, butts, plastic bags, etc. In fact, maybe you could even grab some crap that isn't yours and take it out with you.

** Be quiet! Believe it or not, most of the world wants to sleep at 3:00am. Ocean front property owners deserve the same respect that we give our own neighbors. If they don't hear you, chances are they won't know you're there.

** Leave the lanterns at home! Too much light spooks fish and pisses off your fellow anglers. Get a headlamp and use the "red" setting. If you're driving on the beach go easy on the headlights.

** Give people some elbow room! If a guy's fishing in a spot don't crowd him out, cross his line or hop in his spot while he's changing lures. Use a rotation if fishing on a breachway. If you want to chunk come back in the morning or head down to New Jersey.

** If a guy's into a big fish stay out of the way or help him land it.

** Introduce yourself and ask what the protocol is when you arrive at a new spot. Don't just muscle in and start casting. Most locals will be happy to give you the low-down if you show some respect.

** Don't park in spots that will attract the ire of property owners and the law. Sometimes you have to walk a bit to get to the fish.

** Don't leave a mess when cleaning fish. It attracts vermin and puts up a stink for guys who fish there regularly.

** It's one thing to have a beer after a long day at work, and another to get s***-faced. Know the difference.

** Don't fish beyond your ability. Korkers and waders are the price of admission at some spots. If you have to ask someone else to land your fish or un-stick your plug find a gentler place to fish.

** Watch your language! Some guys bring their kids fishing with them and they don't need you introducing them to the low-rent world of redneck profanity.

** Respect size limits, and don't kill fish you don't intend to eat.

** If you're driving on the sand be prepared and go slow.

Hopefully, some more experienced sticks will add to this list as well . . .

Unfortunately, most people won;t follow those rules.

I'm up for that. Are you and anyone else?
I know Steve well. I believe he would welcome a chat. I'll get the idea to him.

I think the postman must be reading my copy because I haven't got mine yet. and while reading this I wonder what is really in print.
I have not got mine either. I had a problem awhile back when someone from the Post Office was stealing my fishing mags and reading them. One of my OTW showed up 2 weeks lake with spagetti sause all over some of the pages inside the mag. I filed a complaint and I started getting them on time again. If I don't get mine today....another complaint! :zup:

Well, mine showed up last night. I'm not impressed by the article because I learned noting from it other than what to do at a certain time in certain spots. A great article is one I learn from and there have been some in OTW.
Then again they burnt some of my spots here in VT, but not the best ones.

Just curious,did the traffic at these spots increase in the last month? I haven't seen the article, but if it is speaking about the 5 spots to get a 40 lb striper,Steve gave that same seminar at the last RISAA meeting in August.There were a couple hundred people at that meeting Iwould say . If you haven't already noticed an increase in fishermen there ,maybe there isn't so much to get all worked up about.


yes.

WISH MY COPY WOULD GET HERE....

I think everyone seriously needs to get over the "spot burning" issue with Steve's article. On at least,say, ten occasions and perhaps more each season you will see how to and where to articles in the various publications. There is usually an immediate impact on the mentioned spots that leads to a short term overcrowding followed by a loss of interest in the mentioned areas, mostly by spot chasers. Confronting the author on this issue would for me seem ridiculous. There is plenty of reference material out there both new and old that fits the same bill as Steve's article, which was an informative piece, to say the least. It was not and will not be the last one you see, for sure. Since the inception of the internet and surf fishing related web sites, I have seen much greater impact on areas previously overlooked due to the net, not info that comes in print each month or week. Consider this: Everyone here likely has at least one or two close confidants that they share info with, myself included. Each of your confidants has one or two others they likely share info with. Get the picture? One seemingly innocent PM could possibly create overcrowding with as little as three or four people at a spot that can only support one or two people. Look at South County last fall for example, or the back side of the cape a few seasons back. Pointing the finger at an author is for the most part the pot calling the kettle black. As little as one month ago here some of us were bragging and boasting about the great fishing in spot x, and guess what, the next night there was no place to park or fish.

toothless sand sissy.

hows your barbie jeep :yak: :devil: :zup:
its nice with out you out siders here thanks and have a great day
ha ha

HOLY CHIT

HOLY CHIT


sounds like clammer just read it over breakfast :rotfl:

i still am waiting for my otw to be delivered and have tried to wait until it has come to post my comments, but i want to add some general input on this issue as i have done many times before. i will not condemn or applaud mckenna's article until i read it first.

that being said, i have tried for years to ask the internet media to ease up on posting detailed and "right-now"-types of reports or spot explanations by posting my input. as has been mentioned once already, there is a culture change with the newer generations. i've sent pm's, email, talked to people that have done posting of reports or spots. sometimes it's worked and helped, other times, it has not.

years ago one would never brag at a tackle shop, in front of a few unknown anglers or in a magazine about a particular spot or last nights catch. for some, it was due to commercial fishing (from shore) and others were brought up respecting what was told of them. that has changed it appears. people do what info today and now. if one posts about last night's big catch and now has a dozen more people fishing this spot (that may only comfortably fish say 15), how much good has this person really done? what of the 4-6 others that were fishing the previous night and are now trying to fish again that night? what will the property owners think of the added traffic, lights, noise, trash, blood, scales, mono, etc.? what have those that are coming to this spot learned about fishing it? do they sit back, watch, and learn to fish it? or are they jumping on someone else's success and to cash in themselves? now, will that same person/group go back to the internet and read more posts to go to spot "b" tomorrow night and do the same? what is that person really learning? are they developing as a fishermen or just doing what they can to catch fish and not caring about any repercussions? i have little respect for the person that does think like that. i have seen those that want the glory of saying they caught this fish, that size, here or there, but only exaggerate their catches or sizes to promote their status as a fisherman. if that's what you chose, so be it, but dont expect much respect from me. i know others feel the same. "give a man a fish and he eats for a day.teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime." those that do post details or reports about a spot have taught a new angler nothing that they can learn.

now, as far as a magazine selling more copies due to an article such as this because anglers want to here it, that's their choice. if i'm an editor, i want to sell magazines and make money too. i want the best articles and authors. but, are you hurting your magazine in the long run by publishing articles such as this (again, have not read it, but have read similar ones by otw)? do you care, or are you simply trying to sell more magazines? i will not cancel my subscription because i want it to be able to comment on issues and articles such as this. there is also other information by authors i really enjoy reading that is vital to our sport, such as conservation issues, coastal cleanups, fishery stocks data/reports/meetings, etc. just because i buy it, doesn't mean i endorse it. maybe otw may get a spike in sales this month, but will their subscriptions go down over the next year?

now, to say it is ok to write up or post about a spot because YOU dont fish it anymore is pretty poor taste. then to say you fish a private spot so you dont care about the other spot is even worse! as was mentioned, just because you dont fish it anymore doesnt mean others do not as well. respect those that still do fish this spot or spots. dont be mad when others start fishing your private spots because they are following you around now. one thought too, there is no such thing as a private or "new" spot. someone at some time has fished it before you.

for a thread that has 10 pages, almost 200 replies, and 5900 reads, how many of those are not even members but just guests? how many look just for threads like to go cash in on?

now, a question for those that have read this or posted - how many will do something about it, or will you just complain as so many do on the net all the time? i laugh everytime the asmfc changes the rules on a fishery and people go mad on the boards after reading it, but were told in these same magazines, forums, papers about PUBLIC meetings on the issue. how many rec anglers show up to show/challenge the issue(s)? 2, 6, 10? that's pretty sad. if you do try and do something about this or another issue, i applaud you. if you dont, you have nothing to say, but accept what was done. be a leader, not a follower.

Steve is my partner and best friend, I cant sit here and see you rip the guy apart for something you all know you want SPOTS ! The spots he talks about are very well known and in now way "secret" or more importantly PRIVATE.

They all have public access and public parking and are for the most part already over crowded, I think his thought process on this was whats the difference? if there are going to be a hundred guys at a spot , they may as well at least fish it right. Sure some people are going to get pissed off, pile on the crap, look cool by saying what a spot burner he is etc, etc, etc..

Does he fish these spots anymore? nope, very rarley, would he have mentioned them 10 years ago? no way in fact he was pushed out long ago from overcrowding, you may occasionaly see him at the river but thats it.

The number one question he gets asked in the baitshop is about spot, 24/7 all people want to know is spots, spots, spots... So he gave them some, as for the kowledge he gave, If your smart, you would read it 10 times and apply what he has written, you may just get yourself a dream fish, If I was new I would take it as a blessing, you may end up shaking his hand.

So if your this unhappy and dramatic over this then be straight up and go see him at the shop and tell him to his face, stop knocking the guy on the internet when he has no defence here as he does not have a computer.

Steve has helped many people improve there fishing, he is nothing but helpfull at the shop, and does whatever he can to better someones experiance on the water....Lay off and take a time out , I think you will all see that those are spots that every googan with a surfstick has already fished... Its crap like this overblown thread that make me stay away from the boared :yak4: :yak4:

It also makes me sick that some of these people will smile to his face and then rip him here you, know who you are.

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, dont know you are.. Can tell you are someone who has been fishing the surf a long tim and pretty intelligent. I like reading what you write on this site and your one of the few guys I will take the time to read. .Stuff is well thought out..

okay..

is this something really that new about on the water writing articles about locations? Isnt that what they have always been doing but yet, poor Steve gets the blame? Out of all the people to complain about, why start with someone who has helped some many people on this site out? Give him a call or something if you feel so strongly about it..

On the water also publishes a shore guide to rhode island, its advertised in all their magazines. I blelieve Joe Lyons and some other names were contributing authors. Its covers alot more then the daingault guide.

On the water also has weekly fhsing reports available online...

Why just blame on the water though, there is the fisherman magazine. Also, there are about a dozen newspapers that give out weekly reports too...

There are tackle shops. Some list hot spots on their websites and give daily reports. Some other shops wont readily give out spots, but if you drop 50 on a new reel and tell them you will buy more gear if you start catching fish, they will start singing.

Why even blame public sources of information. Its not hard to log onto here and get a dozen emails of hot spots to fish. That actually goes along way, people tell other people, they tell other people.... It goes on and on. I can tell you where Steve Mc fishes and so on from about the 5th person down the ladder on a random screenname I made up.. I hear alot about putting in time to catch fish, but yet, the information is still just as available to newbies.


I generally agree about posting locations. Ive definately had some bad experiicnes from it, and learned not to mention spots limited in parking access or by private property. Even the best of intentions can go wrong in some types of spots. Most of those issues though have bene resolved but its not something worth going through again. What seems to happen is you get a crowd that will come in and it takes a week or more for it to disapear. Most of the people who come, are people who dont catch a lot of fish on their own, and then, dont have the skills to catch fish, and then give up. I feel this is what will happen with Steves article. One article does not make a fishermen catch fish.


As of now, I have more problems the amount of disregard I see toward fellow anglers. I feel these types of threads are what brews up a lot of this attitude and the world would be a lot better without the itnernet fishing sites. I keep hearing stories from fellow anglers about people who get harassed by others. One example is when a person, say one of the top posters on this site, starts intentionally casting over someone elses line just so he can push the person away. I see stuff like this and just have no respect for anyone anymore. Its just happening way to much and to do many people and feel a big part of it resides here and that if you want people to abide by your wishes, you better not tick off your fellow fishermen.

What Id like to hear are some personnel expericnes from someone whos "spot" got burned. Someone mentioned stories from 1999 but I cant seem to find any old reports and the person only registed in 2000 for the site. Can someone link in some old topics, thanks.

is this something really that new about on the water writing articles about locations? Isnt that what they have always been doing but yet, poor Steve gets the blame?

On the water also publishes a shore guide to rhode island, its advertised in all their magazines. I blelieve Joe Lyons and some other names were contributing authors. Its covers alot more then the daingault guide.

On the water also has weekly fhsing reports available online...

Why just blame on the water though, there is the fisherman magazine. Also, there are about a dozen newspapers that give out weekly reports too...

There are tackle shops. Some list hot spots on their websites and give daily reports. Some other shops wont readily give out spots, but if you drop 50 on a new reel and tell them you will buy more gear if you start catching fish, they will start singing.

Why even blame public sources of information. Its not hard to log onto here and get a dozen emails of hot spots to fish. That actually goes along way, people tell other people, they tell other people.... It goes on and on. I can tell you where Steve Mc fishes and so on from about the 5th person down the ladder.. I hear alot about putting in time to catch fish, but yet, the information is still just as available to newbies.


I generally agree about posting locations. Ive definately had some bad experiicnes from it, and learned not to mention spots limited in parking access or by private property. Most of those issues though have bene resolved but its not something worth going through again. What seems to happen is you get a crowd that will come in and it takes a week or more for it to disapear. Most of the people who come, are people who dont catch a lot of fish on their own, and then, dont have the skills to catch fish, and then give up. I feel this is what will happen with Steves article. One article does not make a fishermen catch fish.


As of now, I have more problems the amount of disregard I see toward fellow anglers. I feel these types of threads are what brews up a lot of this attitude and the world would be a lot better without the itnernet fishing sites. I keep hearing stories from fellow anglers about people who get harassed by others. One example is when a person, say one of the top posters on this site, starts intentionally casting over someone elses line just so he can push the person away. I see stuff like this and just have no respect for anyone anymore. Its just happening way to much and to do many people and feel a big part of it resides here and that if you want people to abide by your wishes, you better not tick off your fellow fishermen.

What Id like to hear are some personnel expericnes from someone whos "spot" got burned. Someone mentioned stories from 1999 but I cant seem to find any old reports and the person only registed in 2000 for the site. Can someone link in some old topics, thanks.

Before I say anything, I'll state again that I still haven't seen the article. This also more of a general post as opposed to a direct response to what I quoted.

As a shop that puts out a report, we're always very careful about spot burning. To me, there's a very fine line that separates putting out a helpful report and pissing people off . If I say "Brenton Point has had good fishing on Pencil Poppers at sunrise", it's still a very general description, especially since that good fishing at that moment probably won't last. Even if it brought 6 people down there, I'd probably still be able to fish my spots during the day and without question once it got dark. If I named a specific spot on Brenton, complete with where to stand, that would be dangerous, in particular if I stated how, when, etc. I get heated if I find somone on one of my prefered spots, mostly because no one is normally there. If that particular spot I stand on got burned I'd be a long time getting over it.

Take a look at the OTW Shore Guide's description of Brenton. It's actually VERY vague and the map doesn't even point to a lot of the best spots.

Most of our reports list several very general locations, with some specifics such as what to use or any tricks we've noticed running charters in the past week. Short of tracking down our boats or the guys fishing from shore, you're not going to figure it all out but it will point you in the right direction.

And that is what I think has everyone so excited. Specific rocks within spots. Again, I STILL haven't seen this article, but if that level of detail is included it would concern me. I guarantee our email box would be full and the phone would be ringing with angry people if we ever went into that sort of detail.

I've been stalked before, people think that since you work in a tackle shop you MUST know what's going on at all times... :rotfl:

I've encountered people in the dark while fishing and found them there a few days later. It's rare, but it's happened. Sometimes they move, sometimes they don't. Either way I get irritated. Hiking a mile to find my spot occupied tends to do that.

One more thing about spots:

Someone probably knew about your "secret" spot or a spot you consider "yours" before you. I'm really don't think there any "new" spots being discovered. Just spots that have become hidden over time or are such a long walk to reach it discourages people from going.

People love to say "my" spot but it really doesn't mean much.

pete - hey, thanks for quoting me. :) Sorry, wasnt trying to say anything personal toward the saltwater edge, really never heard of it? What town?


I will admit I use to be a spot slut at tackle shops along time ago, before the internet and field guides came out. I bought everything from the shops that put me on fish and ignored ones that failed. I still am loyal to those same shops today, even 15-20 years later, and buy almost all my gear there. I dunno.

I definitely didn't take it as a personal attack; when I saw it I just felt like adding to the discussion what my experiences with reports had been.

No offense taken, whatsoever. :)

Ctjimmy - we know each other, don't we? You want examples...How many breachways will have a few extra lanterns for the fall run this year? How many times will the increase in trash be evident this year. You kow the spot I have had beef with you over on your site ctfisherman. You know the spot that krispy is taking exception to posting over. Both spots have seen an influx of new faces and lots of these new faces aren't upstanding fishermen like yourself. Public access is not a problem at the spot you and I battled over, but the trash, the poaching-herring and undersize fish, and the general disreguard of these new faces for what we have is deplorable. The spot krispy is angered over is subject to loss of access at a moments notice and the disreguard for that place is running rampant. When we give super explicit details to anyone with a computer or anyone who can read a magazine, we suffer. How would you like it if I followed you a couple of nights with my camera and ensured that every person that ever picked up a rod and reel knew the spots you fish, when to fish them and what to fish with? You post about public places with access to all, but how about if I made sure everyone knew about the places you fish that you do not post about. Can you see where I am coming from? You could just as easily teach a few solid individuals from the plethora of knowledge you keep, and give back to fellow fishermen that way, instead you choose to post for all to see, including the individuals that are the reason we see the litter and lose access. This article is just like your posts on the other site, and you see the majority of fishermen do not care for spot burning, the way I do not. Yet you keep going.
I could go on and on , and I seem to be picking on you alone, but that article reminded me a battles from the past over to burn or not to burn and your face is one I will never forget.
I apologize if I have mistaken you for someone else.................but I doubt it.

choggie - There are quite a few spots that are provided for public access and are generally common knowledge. If someone is looking for that type of spot, it wont take them long to find one of these public spots. I just listed quite a few ways to find reports and location in my first post.

Im not necessarily saying i support all these sources of information, but Im not going to complain about places like tackle shops giving out information or an on the water article. Its taken me almost 25 years of constant work to use these sources of information to become a better fisherman. Yes, on the water has always had articles like that. Its pretty funny to say, okay, its 2005, you cant do that anymore.

I just feel this is not helping your cause. Do you think that on the water or fishing magazines are going to stop giving out information? You need to pick battles more carefully if you want to keep places quiet. You might not think there are actual private places out there, but if you dont look, you just wont know... Ive brought a few select guys on this board to some private spots, they know :)

The fact is that alot of spots other then breachways have been crowded. In your case, I believe I rember you complaining about a place (trying not to be to detailed) on the CT river that was overrun with alot of people. Yet, do you remember ever seeing a report or article on that location? It just started by word of mouth by a group of friends.. Am I correct?

Even the breachways, like charlesotwn are not that bad. If I go there on a weekend when its croweded, I just fish the back channels and generally end up with more fish then anyone out front. If I fish the thames river, I go downriver and have areas and unlimited fish to myself. I dunno. Its hard to give examples without naming spots.

I dunno, there is a bit of balance needed and there are more ways then one to make a place crowded. But when you guys start challenging the very basic spots, ability of OTW to write an article about a well known place, you take a step backward in getting the privacy you want. In the scheme of things, Steve Mckennas article will have almost no inpact. The only thing you that was burned was a relationship with a great fishermen, Steve.

If anything, for your own cause... the spots mentioned here so far bring attention to them... Someone reading this is going to think.. If the "breachways" are so great that we have to keep them quiet, then.. obviously its going to be the first spot they want to see.. I dunno.

I just really think this is out of hand. The large majority of decent fishermen out there have no opinon or care about this type of topic. Its just that they wont participate in threads like this, or even in this site. Alot of the best anglers I know wont spend any time on this site because of threads like this. Even guys like #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& have made hints questioning why they would spend time here when its like this. This thread is like the same 30 guys over and over for 10 pages...

Another thing you need to look into is why someone would post a spot, maybe there are reasons out there.... This site has quite a few ill behaved individuals if you encourter them on the water. Its safter to have other people around with these clowns out there.

,,,My concern is the parking issue,,,,:uhuh: :huh: ...Parking which is a big part to Access.


Illegal parking ...along with trash, campfires, a bloody/scaly causeway, etc... all add up to one thing . . ... LOSS OF ACCESS. How close it the closest trash barrel? Obviously, it's NEVER close enough for everyone.

No, they won't close it permanently. It will stay open during the summer months during sun-bathing hours, it will only close from sunset to sunrise...they will replace the existing fence with a much higher one and one that extends past the rock-edge not allowing passage at all...but then who needs to go there during the night-time anyway ? The fish are only there from 8am to 5pm... :scatter: ...

Like someone else stated, there aren't really any secret spots. Someones' fished there before at some point. Whether they've become forgotten or are now on someone's property, they've been fished. Anyone with a brain and map can do ALL this legwork themselves. With computer technology it can almost all be done from home. Aerial images with depths and structure points. You can't track a sandbar as closely but you can get the gist of where to try. It's not rocket science.....finding the better tides/times to fish them is the science, per say.

This thread is too long to search for it, but someone else stated the question, not exactly like this...but this is how I interpreted it..

..."did you find all your spots yourself, or did someone show you a couple?"....

Of course people have shown me spots...and I've come to learn that you can't share all those spots with everyone or sometimes ANYONE. There is an etiquette about fishing when you take it seriously. Like my other post stated, we don't all look at fishing the same way. Some of you will be collecting baseball cards again in a year or so...or perhaps even antique Barbie Dolls perhaps, to each their own....but some of us will still be wading the large boulders that cover our shore lines in search of that last fish. Unfortunately, a couple of seasons (trash-wise,parking, etc..) could seriously impact just one more fishing spot...and I've seen WAY too many spots lost.

QUESTION: By losing just 1 legal parking area, do you realize how many actual fishing spots you lose?

ANSWER: ...take a walk on the beach and start counting each step through the sand.....hop from rock to rock and count each rock.


There are places in Newport that to this day, I will drive by and think to myself.......WOW, I remember when we used to be able to fish this area.... :( :( .....hopefully my child will own a boat and won't have to worry about access.....

THERE ARE LOTS OF FISH ON THE BACK BEACHES OF THE CAPE RIGHT NOW!!!! \\\ LOOK FOR A JEEP AND A TOOTWESS GUY FISHING MENTAL ALL BY HIMSELF>

hehehe

Wrong river, bud. You know where I am talking about.
If someone were to find out about a public spot through research and not hot posts, I would applaud them. Learn from trial and error, not someones big mouth.
Luckily I do have spots I can fish without worry of bumping into people who are there because they read about it on the internet, but the list dwindles with each post and every article.
If I burn a relationship with a great fisherman its because I do so in choice. It is my morals that make me beleive in something and if my best friend and I do not agree on something, then I will stand up for what I beleive.
I have always had respect for Steve Mckenna, to me he is one of the best. But I do not beleive what he wrote was proper for publication. And apparently I am not the only one.

The posts are getting very long on this post. :uhoh:

This is my 3rd and last post on this, I'll sum it up short & sweet:

Public ... Spot ... Burning ... is ... bad ...

and

Where ... the ... he!! ... is ... my ... magazine. :rotf3: :rotf3:


I also sent a "corrective" e-mail to On The Water and have NOT gotten a response.

The sad thing is...the more attention we give this thread the more people will think there are really fish at those spots.... :yawn: , which the reel fishermen already know............FISH MOVE, and you gotta keep moving withem' if you plan on cathcing any....

I don't bash the Steves' of this world. Sometimes it makes for interesting reading...he was a little too detailed, but the milk has already been spilt...life goes on.

As a matter of fact, there was 1 X on his map that I haven't casted too... :whackin:

Confronting the author on this issue would for me seem ridiculous.

Since I was the one who suggested having a sitdown with Mr. McKenna, I'd like to respond to this. If you read my post, you'll see that all I suggested was that maybe talking to him might clear the air and could hopefully prevent future problems. I never suggested a confrontation in the literal sense. Just the opposite in fact. With all the bashing, I believe give the devil his due and let him tell his side of this story. I never met Mr. McKenna (unless I ran across him while fishing and we didn't exchange names), so there's no agenda here so to speak.

Anyway, as someone who loves the sport as much as the next guy, I stand by the belief that we should support one another and if a problem arises, we should go directly to the source and talk it out. Then take it from there, if necessary. But let me quickly point out that many of you guys seem to have a greater stake in this controversy than I do. So the direction you care to go with all of this belongs squarely with you.

Hmmm, how to keep this short ????

My biggest concern is not losing access to places to fish and a big part of that is parking. All of the spots in Steve's article have been written several times in the past few years. Maybe not to the detail but they've all been written. They have all been in the reports section of xyz123 website, the fisherman, projo, beacon, times, globe, herald, OTW online, etc. While I think it was not a good idea on Steve's part to write such detailed spot info, he wasn't the first and he won't be the last. He is a decent guy and either did not consider or underestimated the consequences, at least for the spots, but I'm willing to bet he figured he would be helping out people with that article. I'm sure the intention was not to burn spots. My issue is access and the loss of it if everyone is blurbing spots and reports. If people share info, things usually spread a lot more slowly than a big article in OTW. This is where people need to be responsible with access and throwing spots out - regardless who or where its done, is just not that responisble in my opinion. Anyone that tells you they learned every spot on their own is BS'ing. Everyone has learned something from someone or somewhere, including the articles, books, sites, etc.

My point is these things have to be done in balance and done responsibly as it is not worth losing the ACCESS!! That is all the counts, the access. Last year when people we saying go to such and such and there was a ton of fish last night, the next day was busy. A lot of first time to that spot people not knowing how to get in, cutting through yards. Now maybe 1 in 5 were making noise, leaving trash and disrespecting the local, but how many does it really take? How many does it take before the residents go before the local town council (who likely don't care much for the night surf angler) and close the parking? Then a general area is lost, That serves nobody. It's a good short term strategy but it dies in the long term....

Now I want to say one other thing. There are a lot of people jumping personally on Steve on this. That's wrong. He has done nothing any different than another who knows how many people have done over the years. So don't make Steve out to be the bad guy. This might not be one of his brightest moves but he's not a bad guy.

You want to fix the problem? Maybe work on the culture of "spots", how they are handled and reported.

Ok - done for now :)...

You could be REAL adventurous parking in one place and biking to another.

bloo - unfortunately, if a town puts up trash cans, they need to empty them constantly. people other than fisherman use them and abuse them. fishermen should be responsible and pick up THEIR OWN TRASH! few do and many walk right by garbage in the rocks. sad...

jimmyct - you should know some of what's been talked about here. i've seen you put "x's" yourself on spots, put up mapquests for a location, give detailed explanations on how to fish a spot, have pictures of the spot, and where to cast. what have you really taught that person? how about that group that now fishes there since you have done that? what have they learned? how to read the internet and now come back for more. tackle shops do give out reports and some have changed their reports after being talked to. and, do you really think all of them are truthful? they are in it for the money as they own a biz. when they give a report to a customer, it is usually a thank you for shopping there and come back again. that's business. if you post details up on a spot for 10 of your close friends, guess what, 200 more are lurking those same boards and are now fishing next to you that night. again, what have they learned? to sit in front of their computer and wait for today's "hot spot"? magazines, how old are those reports? a week? month? i care to disagree w/ your interpretation of, "The large majority of decent fishermen out there have no opinon or care about this type of topic.", as we are seeing in this thread just how much it does in fact mean to some. some have never registered before and are for the first time to chime in. some haven't posted in weeks or months and did.

there is a reason it is called fishing and not catching. by posting detailed reports you only are adding to the "catching" part of that phrase for that angler. they may or may not ever learn the "fishing" part of it. they sure as heck will not learn the ethics rules that some have talked about already.

i will help another angler after seeing them a few times and seeing them being unsuccessful. i see them trying to learn. that's different than someone coming down to a spot after reading it on the net.

i think johnr even said one time that this site is to help out anglers to be better fishermen. being better fishermen includes learning how to fish from people that have been fishing for a while or are successful or bring new ideas. not those that post daily reports or detailed maps. as you said jimmy, the maps are out there, do some homework and be that better fishermen.

as far as this thread being too long, i disagree. many, many good points are being brought up and continue to be brought up. one of the points of this thread is to stop the next "steve mckenna" from writing something similar in the future or possibly on a forum. and, again, i am not trying to slam steve as i have yet to read the article, i'm trying to stop or ease the idea that detailed reports and detailed spots are not a good thing for our sport.

now, since some have mentioned access as an issue, 2 foods for thought. 1st, do you know how much public access is available in connecticut? that's an oxy-moron in ct! e extremely thankful for what you have in ri and mass. now, next, how many people here belong to risaa? if you do, dont you know that there is a right-of-way committee? how many are part of it? last time i went, not too many. why dont you help and learn what issues are involved with public access/right-of-ways and help out instead of complaining here when it's taken away.

Well said. I owe you a frosty beverage.

Hmmm, how to keep this short ????

Ok - done for now :)...




John-

I was just kidding about the length of the posts -- keep 'em coming. :rotf2:

Now I want to say one other thing. There are a lot of people jumping personally on Steve on this. That's wrong. He has done nothing any different than another who knows how many people have done over the years. So don't make Steve out to be the bad guy. This might not be one of his brightest moves but he's not a bad guy.



are you kidding?? Sorry but Steve should be held acountable for his actions. Yes he is a nice guy, yes he has helped alot of guys out including me, but this article of his is just about the worst thing you could do as a surfcaster.. As a local narragansett surfcaster, i feel like he just slapped me right in the face. Steve is the bad guy here John.. the pen is mightier than the sword and there was quite a bit of blood spilled this month. :hs: I just lost alot of respect for him and i will tell him that the next time i see him...

The key to a good surfcasting article is to write up a puzzle.. give clues, give suggestions give just enough to get the reader jazzed and most importantly steer the reader to come to his own conclusions on how to fish an area......

What he did is more like handing out a treasure map with the keys to the castle, plus the secret handshake....

poor form imo..:hs:

Eben, the poor form is the 180 you did on this subject :rollem:
you started out not pissed at all and now you lost respect for him.


What's done is done. Get over it and move on people, maybe we all learned something from this subject. No sense flaming a guy who doesn't even have a computer to defend his actions. Take it up in person.

Eben, the poor form is the 180 you did on this subject :rollem:
you started out not pissed at all and now you lost respect for him.


What's done is done. Get over it and move on people, maybe we all learned something from this subject. No sense flaming a guy who doesn't even have a computer to defend his actions. Take it up in person.

calling my poor form is poor form on your part.. :D

:uhoh: :hee: :usd: :as: :nopain: :bshake: :scatter:

You know, from my point of view, I've never fished there and I found that article interesting. I may never visit there, but if I do one day, I'll know at least something. It's a fishing mag, a good one too. What'd ya expect? My spots get mentioned all the time. Crowds 'em up in the daytime, but in the dark of night, not so much damage is done. The only thing that really concerns me is trash. But if our enforcement guys were enforcing, trash would nearly be eliminated with a few hefty fines. I think that I'm babbling now, sorry...

You know, from my point of view, I've never fished there and I found that article interesting. I may never visit there, but if I do one day, I'll know at least something. It's a fishing mag, a good one too. What'd ya expect? My spots get mentioned all the time. Crowds 'em up in the daytime, but in the dark of night, not so much damage is done. The only thing that really concerns me is trash. But if our enforcement guys were enforcing, trash would nearly be eliminated with a few hefty fines. I think that I'm babbling now, sorry...

But everyone is supposed to go to the Cape. Rhody is just a postage stamp place with no fish :huh:

Eben, what Steve did might be what he was trying to do, right the best article he could. Did it go over the line? Oh yeh - you bet your ass it did. But then be sure to criticise, Joe Lyons, Canalman, Manzi, Pickering, Charlie Soares (he's coughin up a lot as of late), Tim Coleman, and everyone else that has wielded the mighty pen. But be consistent and challenge articles, well written or not, of places that are not "NIMBY" to you. Then, you might as well criticise all the loose lips in Narragansett and SoCo that PM and e-mail spots and reports and access into private places too. It is a phenomenon not just limited to OTW and The Fisherman.

I still haven't gotten mine and it is kinda pissing me off I guess the No. shore is the last on the mailing list :crying:

This is what I know about OTW
I have a friend from Maine a Surfcaster/ Boater and a writer
he contacted OTW to write for them and sent in a piece
the sent it back telling him they want spots and all the
mico details about it

here is what they wrote him: They told me they pay $200 for a major story with pictures and MUST divulge locations, tips and techniques. They wanted micro-details. Not interested in what I had to offer.

I think that the info they want sell mags. and It is OTW's fault for wanting it

leave me alone U geeks

leave me alone U geeks

Blabbermouth :chatter :tooth:

This is what I know about OTW
I have a friend from Maine a Surfcaster/ Boater and a writer
he contacted OTW to write for them and sent in a piece
the sent it back telling him they want spots and all the
mico details about it

here is what they wrote him: They told me they pay $200 for a major story with pictures and MUST divulge locations, tips and techniques. They wanted micro-details. Not interested in what I had to offer.

I think that the info they want sell mags. and It is OTW's fault for wanting it
The writer can say NO. I hope he did.

those must be some real good spots to cause all this......I'm gonna have to make a trip down there :rotf2: ....after I catch big ones here, then the Cape....then R.I........nevermind... gas is too expensive
seriously....sorry for your loss and hope it does not impact your areas too much.

Blabbermouth :chatter :tooth:
i only yap about plugs u freak
eben is gay
have a great day :scatter:

WOW this is a long thread...wasted a good amount of time reading this. It is funny to see people super pi$$ed at the start of the thread and now folks are calming down.

I honestly do not care about spots because the "googans" (man I hate that term) dont fish in the dead of night, on windy, rain or foggy days; they only fish on weekends and when the sun is shining. The problem is that they usually dont clean up and know how to fish the spot with other people there but if they did everything would be ok by me.

Now I can get back to work.

WOW this is a long thread...wasted a good amount of time reading this. It is funny to see people super pi$$ed at the start of the thread and now folks are calming down.

I'm too lazy to hold a grudge :hihi:

:rollem: Threads in 5th place for most views on the site :rollem:

:rollem: Threads in 5th place for most views on the site :rollem:
...and in first place for causing the most aggrevation...

....I honestly do not care about spots because the "googans" (man I hate that term) dont fish in the dead of night, on windy, rain or foggy days; they only fish on weekends and when the sun is shining......

And on that one weekend they have the tendency to leave more than enough trash. The coastline is so massive that unless a spot is very well-known, it's not missed as much if lost. There are lost-spots out there that would make you drool silly, lost to negligence.

....The problem is that they usually dont clean up ......
That's why WE HAVE to CARE about SPOTS....mine, yours, and theirs!! :crying:

Seawolf - You're right, when and if there is a trash barrel present, it's normally filled with househould trash. It's a no-win situation, that's the sad truth. I think the "beach/rock clean-ups" are helpful, especially if the local residents see fishermen doing it....but all it takes is that one lazy group who don't even have the decency to use the trash barrel, nevermind take their own trash home... :rollem:

If you see someone littering while fishing and you don't know how to approach them, I know some of you can be a bit timid - :bshake: - ....you may want to start the conversation by saying something like this....

"I heard they're going to close this place down. It's under review right now. They are monitoring how clean it's being kept. It sure would be a shame to lose the right to fish here huh?...Yeah, really sucks. I pick up some of the trash from time to time, but it's gonna take more than one person to save this place........have a nice day, and good luck!".....

How about another thread on suggestions for good interesting articles that would sell magazines without burning spots.
I myself would rather have seen 4 articles with the same illustrations without locations and more detailed explanations of how to fish breachways, Points, reefs, rocks, etc.
What works and why in the writers opinion with no guarantees.
Then again I liked bassmasters articles.

It almost seems to me that the folks doing the most bitchin don't even live on the coast. Believe me spot burning impacts folks like me more than you. I grew up on the Cape (cotuit) lived 17 years in Rockport and now live in Mattapoisett. And in my 50 years I've seen criminal amounts of coast shutoff from the tax paying citizens of those communities because of out of town sharpies or googans. The "sharpies " pushing the limits to get to that secret honeyhole and pissing off landowners and cops alike and the googans are just dumb $hits. You guys think it doesn't piss of a local to find all the parking filled by non residents in season or off season or to find a conga line at the mouth of a very productive creek? I've been living with the Boston globe,the herald, fisherman mag. and now on the water all my life . The Herald did a story on Folly cove pier (best whiting hole you've ever seen) back in 87 on a friday by sunday it was no tresspassing with a Rockport cop at the gate in the 70's it was Squaw island in the 90"s too many to count access to the Ipswich river Essex river and the Annisquam . Every body thinks behind Nichols is good better places were shut down. I could go on but I feel my blood pressure going up now. Too much byte space and energy has been wasted on this subject. Give it a rest go fishing and be nice to the locals.

It almost seems to me that the folks doing the most bitchin don't even live on the coast. Believe me spot burning impacts folks like me more than you. I grew up on the Cape (cotuit) lived 17 years in Rockport and now live in Mattapoisett. And in my 50 years I've seen criminal amounts of coast shutoff from the tax paying citizens of those communities because of out of town sharpies or googans. The "sharpies " pushing the limits to get to that secret honeyhole and pissing off landowners and cops alike and the googans are just dumb $hits. You guys think it doesn't piss of a local to find all the parking filled by non residents in season or off season or to find a conga line at the mouth of a very productive creek? I've been living with the Boston globe,the herald, fisherman mag. and now on the water all my life . The Herald did a story on Folly cove pier (best whiting hole you've ever seen) back in 87 on a friday by sunday it was no tresspassing with a Rockport cop at the gate in the 70's it was Squaw island in the 90"s too many to count access to the Ipswich river Essex river and the Annisquam . Every body thinks behind Nichols is good better places were shut down. I could go on but I feel my blood pressure going up now. Too much byte space and energy has been wasted on this subject. Give it a rest go fishing and be nice to the locals.

Whiplash, I see you get the point most of us are making -- loss of access due to these types of articles is the problem -- it's a shame you have to sound so ignorant saying it. Attacking people on this post about whom you have no idea is just that, ignorant.

Now, landowners blocking access to the water in an unconstitutional manner is a whole other topic -- don't get that ball rolling here.

My point is that the articles will always be there to make money for somebody and that closures are also not always the result of an article. By the way I attacked no one on the board or in these posts but did I get a little close to the bone? What we need to do is insted of just bitching about it -do something . My Boy Scout troop does 3 beach clean ups a year and not just in our town , maybe we need to do the same in some high volumn areas around the area RI the Cape and North and South shores like MBBA does. What about working with the EPO's to moniter problem sites and I don't mean just calling , but meeting with regional managers to set something up formally.If you live on the coast get involved with the public access board in your town or the conservation commissions . BY the way live in a tourist town for a while and you'll find out what ignorance is.

whiplash, you make an interesting point, but one of the biggest reasons for loss of access is that some areas that are state row's are just being overgrown and most do not know about it. before you know it, they are gone and overturned in the state.

another larger, growing problem is that most of the shoreline is beiing bought up by the wealthy of the world. those that do own some of the shoreline houses that were in the family for yeas are being forced out due to high taxes. is that fair? no, but it's happening. and, most of those rich buying the houses on the shoreline are from out of state! they are not locals anymore either. and, they are trying to change town ordinances/laws to allow these same land owners to vote on issues in that town, even tho they are registered in that town. unfortunately, money speaks volumes these days and gets things done.

some of these row's need to be addressed, but very carefully. as you might only get one shot to keep it open, so you need to do your homework well. as i said before, get involved in a group fghting for your right to fish. do your job cleaning up after yourself and others for the good of us all.

Seawolf you better believe ROWs are a valuble asset to the community. So many land owners especially the new rich that move into sea side communities think that they can block them off . I served 12 years on the Rockport Con Comm and half a dozen times a year we had to deal with the issue of public access. They would fence them off, pile brush. post signs make threats . It got to the point that they started a board just to protect the ROWs. I realize that it's almost impossible for folks who don't live in coastal towns to particpate in protecting these areas but there is a state office for public access that I'm sure would like some help. Its up to us to keep these areas open. Unfortunately when a closure issue comes up at a town meeting the boards know who is a townie and who isn't but numbers sure do impress a town board .

I have not got my issue yet, the suspense is killing me. I wonder if it is lost. Seawolf you bring up a good point - ever look at the license plates driving into C-Town Breachway, almost every plate is from CT or NY.

i haven't received mine either. i called and asked about it and they said it should've been here by now so they're sending another one....

My copy just showed and while no one who fishes likes to see spots burned I guess I got used to it happening long ago. You have to expect it(not like it) when you consider that the main purpose is to sell magazines. Hell in the mid 80's, with the advent in the popularity of fly fishing and every stinking stockbroker from NY was up here, a national fly fishing magazine ruined fishing for me on the central White river here. How long have national mags like Field and Stream or Outdoor Life given out spots either in specific articles or with specialized regional spots in their back sections? Granted, maybe not with such minute detail as where to park or which compass direction in which to cast once you were there.

It will be interesting to see just how much an increase in fishing pressure does occur. Luckily at one of the spots you have to wade out and I doubt many newbies will take things that far, another of them mentions a long walk(and a pic) which should help keep numbers down. I've never fished those spots, but can understand RI fisherman not being happy, downside is you do have to expect it from time to time. Maybe the thing thats new to this is that in the last decade there has been a greater spotlight thrown on surf fishing. Certainly the internet has allowed a lot of people, all with a narrow, specific interest like all of us here, to electronically get together for the first time. Mostly its been a positive thing, naturally there will be an occasional downside.


BlueFisher-I read that Vt article too, like you it suprised me a bit on what he mentioned. I wasnt sure from reading it whether he was covering his buddies spots or wasnt all that aware of other rivers. The Mettawee unfortunately became well known and has gotten tons of pressure for years, best mentioned river with light pressure on it(and coincidentally the one closest to you) he also sends them to an area of the river that is only so so in the fall(good for numbers but not for size). Im just hoping everyone fishes the area he mentions. Only shocking thing to me was that he was even aware of the Moose River sicne thats off the beaten path even for Vermont.

I just found five new spots to fish in R I, thanks OTW, ( hope you boys don't mind company!) ...............................just teasing. unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:whackin: :hang: :crying:

I took a quick look at it today, all i needed to see was the drawings. Decided to stop by one of the spots to listen to the game and eat dinner, man that place was packed musta been atleast a dozen people, the 5 that i could actually see were weighted snug on the bottom, so much for driftin an eel or jiggin it. They will prolly get the skunk tonight and never return, atleast we can hope.

I took a quick look at it today, all i needed to see was the drawings. Decided to stop by one of the spots to listen to the game and eat dinner, man that place was packed musta been atleast a dozen people, the 5 that i could actually see were weighted snug on the bottom, so much for driftin an eel or jiggin it. They will prolly get the skunk tonight and never return, atleast we can hope.

we can only hope they never return :rollem:

Amazing.i couldn't believe what I was looking at.I went to look at one spot there's only room for maybe 2 small cars.on a very quite residential road.I can see that one getting shut down in no time.
I have had my dinner at the other local myself.Although not very appetizing in a south wind.I fished three of the spots this week an only had one small bass to show for it.

Too much byte space and energy has been wasted on this subject. Give it a rest go fishing and be nice to the locals.
:jester:

I just got mine... :hang: Lost my interest in that publication and didn't look at the rest of the magazine. I do not get it.

Coming soon: OTW "Live Internet Fishing" presents live underwater video feeds of New Englands hotspots! :rotf3: No need to get out of bed on those chilly fall nights just to get skunked! Now you can check every rock, hole and bar for 200 miles of coast and see if the fish are there and active. OTW "Live" also provides current, wind, tide, and moon info and accurate animation to show you where to cast based on real-time scientific data! :bshake:

I can see it now...Wader Cams. :rollem: