are they weighted? I'm going on a swimmer without lip binge. Help...

x-ray :eyes:

Jake/ Fred I been thinking of them alot myself .. want to try one too ... I'd say Vinyard Blues has to be the leading authority on those .. His collection is sick .. maybe he'll chime in .. I noticed making darters difference in weight of blanks,,angles on top,and wire locations are huge.. I bet its the same deal with those ..

Jake/ Fred I been thinking of them alot myself .. want to try one too ... I'd say Vinyard Blues has to be the leading authority on those .. His collection is sick .. maybe he'll chime in .. I noticed making darters difference in weight of blanks,,angles on top,and wire locations are huge.. I bet its the same deal with those ..
YOU, are the reasom that I'm doing this. That yellow Dahtah you gave me has the sickest search and destroy that I've ever seen! It looks like it's tracking down fish, makes about a 6 foot wide "S".

I have one that bassassasin made a couple years back. Nice action to it :kewl: Hopefully he'll chime in and give you some input.

Jigman

Here you go, top one is an original, bottom one is mine with eyes :eyes:
This is the largest Nike that Floyd Roman made, it's about 3.5 ounces. Haven't swam mine yet but hopefully this weekend. I tried to imitate the color that vineyardblues had at the MSBA show. Hi Peter :wavey:
If it swims alright, I might make it for the lazy swap :tooth:

Love that color! How'd you weight it?

All in the pooper :bshake: Can't find any belly weight in the original.

Pissa! Thanks! :bounce:

is original weighted in the pooper ? How do you classify that plug ? swimmer? darter ? sweet work ,,I'd love one ..

Pretty sure it's weighted in the pooper, it's tail heavy. I'm guessing it swims like a bottle plug. Both original and clone are going swimming :hihi:
Don't worry Tagger, you'll get one :cheers:

Tagger
Can you show us some of those Swirl paint Darters you make. :kewl:

Tagger
Can you show us some of those Swirl paint Darters you make. :kewl:
geeez don't want to mess up thread ,,..

Nice Job Andy, u dog :)
Looks reel-nice
I do not think their is any weight at all,
BA,Mr Pogie,Chum,and a few others have made them.
No help from me,sorry.
Have fun ,make a bunch,swim them and then send me one!

VB

Those are nice. I have never heard of them before. Ignorance is bliss. P.

FLOYD ROMAN lures were made with screw eyes and wire tru
If your having issues with the wire :)
90% of mine are screw eyes :faga:
I would guess the screw eyes are early,,, late 30's early 40's
vb

geeez don't want to mess up thread ,,..

Ya, like u could mess up a thread. :rollem: :bL:

geeez don't want to mess up thread ,,..

Ya, like u could mess up a thread. :rollem: :bl:

Whoops posted wrong one .. I sneezed in the epoxy on that one ,,,,just mixed it in ..Roman Nike ,,No weight sounds good,, lively ,,like musso darter.. What kind of wood.. hard maple , or a cedar , white pine ? what are they made of ..

While working today and thinking about those plugs, it occured to me that I hadn't asked what kind of wood. It would(wood?) make a difference. Thanks Tagger. Any pic of your work could never mess up a thread. Never.

not to beat a dead horse,, anyone know what kinda wood... thanks.. fred ..your on plugs for life list. little black danny is magic .. thanks for letting nephew ho u ..

I think it might be red cedar. Where there is paint missing on my original, the wood is very soft. The lure looks like it has about 10 coats of paint, pretty thick.

I did the "balance the lure in the middle" and the tail wanted to fall first and if the lure is made of red cedar, it wouldn't weigh 3.5 ounces without some weight. Just my observation.

these two seem to be red cedar..blue one is 3/4 at the tail while the yellow is 5/8.......blue is 7 1/2 long while the yellow is 7 1/4, both are 1 5/8 thick.
both are through wired, but the belly has screw eyes..I can also see abit of lead in the tail..3/16 thick by ??long..nothing in the tummy.


http://24.63.160.194/dsc01370.jpg

weight on these are 2.55/ 3.0 0z.

thanks.. u swim one CS ? great looking plug

no I havn't, these are so dry they'd likely to blow up...when I looked at the belly screws,,they were drilled out like they were going to put swivels in,they have gromets..and if you look in the hole you can see what looks like glue that the screws are set into.if they weren't so hard to come by I'd split one in half :hidin:

If you split one in 1/2 call me up I would like to watch and have a drink and say a prayer :eek5:

Make sure it's the bottom one , the top one is a tuff color


VB

Weird, but I've been experimenting with a body shape not alot different than those in Capesams' picture... just a lot smaller... like maybe 4 inches by 3/4" at the thickest point.

Major difference, and point of frustration, is I have been cutting darter faces on them... in all kinds of angles and most common woods, without success. Won't dart for nothing, but they swim pretty good. Guess I should just cut slopes on them and paraphrasing what 10x10 used to say... invent the Floyd Roman. :rotfl:

I saw one Ed p had a few years back..brand new...I could sware it was much bigger than these two.....cut these,,no...if I get the chance I'll get it x-rayed along with a few other's.

I seem to remember someone here (not metioning any names) had access to an x-ray machine.Would be nice to post them for us to see>:)

Mine weighs 3.5 ounces. I'll get measurements when I get home.

andy, u get the pic's I sent?

vb

Those are nice. I have never heard of them before. Ignorance is bliss. P.

i don't remember? (know ) why, but i suddenly
got a wicked rush of de ja vu :huh:

nice fat swimmers for sure...

Got pics. Where are the big ones you have. I know you have more than you showed :beat:

What would the dia. in front of the front hook at the end of the slope coming down in the front, it kind of looks like it is a straight turning before the angle is milled on? Anyone know what the hell I am saying? Also dia. at the back end? Thanks Paul

paul go eat a meatball :jump:


Nike: 71/2 inch long 3 ½ oz
(The MISSILE that guides you to good Striper and other Big Game fish)

Nike Jr: 6 ½ inch long 2 ¼ oz
Little Nike: 5 ½ inch long 1 3/8 oz
Slick Nike: 4 inch long 1 oz
Fresh Water Nike: 4 inch long ¾ oz
Spin Nike: 3 inch long ¼ oz

Skindiver: 6 ¾ inch long 3 oz
(Long distance casting deep swimming plug which is very effective with eel skin drawn over plug for night surf casting, or without eel skin for day-time casting)


Slzzler: 7 ¼ inch long 3 ½ oz
Sizzler Jr: 5 inch long 1 ¾ oz
(Real Hot Popping plug for all Salt Water game Fish)


Dart N Dart: 6 ¾ inch long 3 oz
Dart N Dart Jr: 4 inch long 1 ½ oz

(Darts on surface when line is attached to bottom eye. Darts deep when attached to top
eye)

Sandee: 1 ½ oz and Lil Sandee: in ¼ oz size

(cast up stream at an angle .Let sink quit deep ,twitch rod tip 2 or 3 times. Retrieve 2 or 3 turns let drop back and repeat for best results. Very effective with eel skin at night.)

Hey you Irish Puerto Rican :scream: you got those dim. You must have a few hundred of those things hanging around..break out the calipers.. P.

P A Surfer.. u already make a very fine and unique darter.. holds in the ditch..I'm scared of loosing this one .. VB pics ?

Paul jump on 495 north and come on up !
I am sure you wil like dinner, stuffed cabbage, Italino style.

ps , bring some parmesian :bl:


VB

A Few Colors :humpty:
VB

Sorry for the hijack, but thanks for the words of faith, Tagger, glad you like it... and you'd better hang on to it 'cause it's one of only seven :uhuh: ...maybe the only one that works that well. :rotfl:

Back on topic... looking at VB's stats, the erstwhile darter -- formerly a popper body design -- that I'm fooling with falls right between the Slick and Freshwater versions, weight wise with no lead, and swims down to 3-4 feet in sweetwater. So I'm gonna cut a couple with straight face slopes between 30 and 40 degrees, and see what that does. Worst case, I could swim them with the darter cuts, but it just goes against nature... you look at it and say "darter", but it swims more like Ester Williams than a drunken sailor. The belly bulge is not as pronounced on mine -- I just liked the flow of the curves -- and maybe that's why I never made the mental leap to a Nike, until I saw Capesams' pic... now, I've got try it, too.

Dang you, Jake. :p Thanks for bringing this up. :cheers:

I really like the looks of that thing so I guess I will have to make a road trip. I will bring my dial calipers. Maybe after Thanksgiving.. P.

Hello. Here is some info to help build a big Nike. I x-rayed one.

The wood is soft, light, reddish and quick growing (big growth rings), probably red cedar.

The weight is only in the tail. It is roughly 7/16 x 13/16 long. It appears to actually be a lead strip wrapped around a narrower lead plug. There is no belly weight.

The plug is not, in fact, through wired. The wire extends in from each end as far as the nearest screw eye which, in turn, passes through a loop in the end of the wire to anchor it. Clever.

The angle of the diving plane appears to be 35 degrees. The plane is 2 1/4 inches long and 1 inch wide. The protrusion on the front of the plug is obviously also 1" dia and projects forward about 1 1/8 inch.

The plug is 7 1/2 " long. It is 1 3/4 ' wide at it's widest, about 3 " from the nose. The last 1 1/4' of the plug is a straight barrell, 3/4 " in diameter.

The tail hook is 2 1/4 from the rear, the front hook is 2 1/2 " from the nose and there is 2 5/8" between them.

I have a smaller Nike, 5 1/4" long that does not seem to be weighted (I haven't xrayed it) but carries large 3/0 or 4/0 hooks instead.

I haven't seen these plugs in the water. If you are interested in a very productive lipless swimmer, I suggest copying the Magna Strike Predator (an out of production plastic plug) I have made several that work well and the dimensions do not seem critical.

Good luck.

Thanks, and great name :bl:
ANy chance you can post a pic of the x-ray ?
VB

Wow, thanks for the tutorial! And welcome to S-B. Nifty bunch of guys hang around here. :jump:

WOW ask and you shall receive!!!!!!!! Thanks very informative!!!!!!

Thanks for info Numbskull . Name is definately not fitting . I been thing about the Predator too ,, Wich one are you making the big one or the little one .?

Tagger. I've had good luck making a loose copy of the larger Predator. I've made them about an inch longer and a bit wider than the original. I use pine and don't weight them, other than big hooks. The design is very stable in rough water, keeps it's head down when dannys don't, and fishes well, at least from a boat during the day.

Vineyard. Here comes a try at posting a picture of the Nike xray.fishpict2.jpg

nice ...you beat me to it...the lead on the ones I have look to be poured around the tail wire right up into the loop itself. no hole for the wire to go through.

Thank You :jump:
Great Pic
VB

nice ...you beat me to it...the lead on the ones I have look to be poured around the tail wire right up into the loop itself. no hole for the wire to go through.

This is the same on mine, what I think they did was pour a lead plug in a mold around the wire and through the grommett. Around this they then wrap a lead strip. On the xray you can see the inside end of the lead plug, as well as the lead strip over-rap. The grommett itself is full of lead. I'll bet the weight in the next smaller model is the size of the central lead plug without the extra over-rap.

I'm very close.. A tad more tweak I think I got it. I'm using swamp pine..The grain is very tight in this stuff.. I weighed orig Nike at 3 ounces and had to add .5 ounces to arse to get the weight up to 3.. I never arse weighted a swimmer nevermind 1/2 ounce..I'm afraid its going to sit in the water like a popper.. Anybody ever swim one of these plugs ? I really enjoyed building these, lightly sanding the curves reminded me of my first girlfreind..:drool:

:bl:

u r on to something Eddy :smokin:

vb

Very interesting plugs. Tagger, how does one get on the "plugs for life list?"

I really like this smaller size too. You can see it has a belly weight and a tail weight too. Front is shaped differently. 6.5" long. Thanks Peter.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/profes58/000_0335.jpg

Hey Eddy - Swam my original and my copy a couple of weeks ago. They get down like a bottle plug but seemed to dart like a darter.

P A Surfer.. u already make a very fine and unique darter.. holds in the ditch..I'm scared of loosing this one .. VB pics ?

PA,

Mine works just fine. :D

Sorry for the hijack, but thanks for the words of faith, Tagger, glad you like it... and you'd better hang on to it 'cause it's one of only seven :uhuh: ...maybe the only one that works that well. :rotfl:




Mine darts fine PA.... it will pop out in a super strong rip, but for most cases, it is a great darter :kewl: it fills its niche niceley

I really enjoyed building these, lightly sanding the curves reminded me of my first girlfreind..:drool:

Eddy ya killin me :laugha: :rotf2:

Hey Eddy - Swam my original and my copy a couple of weeks ago. They get down like a bottle plug but seemed to dart like a darter.
Hey Andy... mind telling me how much u put in the arse...i got a half ounce in there.. don't seem right ..

Hey Peter...VB... how consistent are the Nike bodies.. The loaner I have has a nice transition curve on the top from the front flat to the round back..I see pics with what looks like a sharp point up there where the flat meets the round ,,,if you catch my drift ..

The one you have is the large nike.
The pic paul posted is the med one
vb

Hey Eddy - I think it was the 1/2 ounce slug I put in the arse. I'll check when I get home tonight. PM me your # and I'll give you a ring.

Tagger... I have been experimenting with the Nike shape, as well, although not an exact copy since all I've ever seen are pics. I do a couple things different, like where the lead goes and how the slope is cut, but there's still a resemblence.

Like you, I thought it would be a swimmer until I tossed it in the water. It'll swim, without any lead, even with a darter face... the way I started out playing with it. Once you started this thread, and the xray showed up, things got interesting.:uhuh:

I went to a straight 38 degree slope, and a nice slug of lead in the tail, and as you suggested the lure sits in the water like a popper. If and when I finally got its face in the water, it came in virtually straight.:crying: So I started playing with the slope and redistributing the weight. The latest proto is hard to describe, because it neither swims nor darts, but glides in a wide "S", sometimes as much as 2-3 feet off center before it swings back just as it looks like it might roll out. It will be interesting to see if final coating of epoxy changes things, but it's been fun playing with it.

I posted info on these a few years ago on antoher site. You can probably search for it.

BA,

Those are sweet:uhuh:

I want one:laugha:

Bernzy

I tanked the original in a bucket of clean fresh water and it sits perfectly level the top mound is above the surface so it will probably sit level only a tad higher in salt .. I'm not putting this in the salt .. These are my first,, shape is almost dead a little tweaking left ,,but .5 ounce of lead in the arse is too much !!!! 1st batch sit like poppers... I put 3/0 trebs matching orig.. I can bring the nose almost level swapping a 4/0 on the front and removing arse hook but it still isn't good .. I'm afraid I'm going to have to cut wires and drill some lead out of the arse.. We'll figure it out.. I'm using pine.. a special pine that grows in swamps .. the grain is so tight .. I'm still under 3 ounces though.. When I was painting I was thinking House paint.. still a little flashy though..

Bottom shot ..

Nice stuff Tagger, very nice:heybaby:

OMG
Floyd would be :rotf2:


vb

nice.
hope you made some extras :heybaby:

Just plain













Beautiful -- Ed, just plain Beautiful.

:claps:

thanks .. I'm not ready for any trades .. I have weighting issues and think I could use a little more shoulders on plug..

I posted info on these a few years ago on antoher site. You can probably search for it.

Those swim real nice :D

Jigman

most pissa:cool: bandsaw

Those are nice. More like the original shape than mine. I didn't like the way they swam with the narrow slope so I went wider to get the action I was looking for. I have caught a few decent fish using them.

Pissa work as always BA;
gonna make it up North again next year or what :D
I think you need a road trip sans wife :D

Pissa work as always BA;
gonna make it up North again next year or what :D
I think you need a road trip sans wife :D

I agree. Sure would like to fish B.P. again but when there are bigger fish around.

Yup...
we'll talk in the spring :D

Ok... still working on this ... got shoulders now.. letting wood tell me wich side is up in the water and solved weighting issues..Arrows show where surface water (fresh) hits plug on real Nike.. front tip ,and 2" back from rear .. How the heck you going to weight a plug to sit in the water like that . Then Georges (Numbskull) xray came to mind and remembered seeing some rinky dinky wrapping around arse weight.. I wrapped lead around a smaller tailweight and removed lead until it sat perfect.. Had the hooks hanging off it too .. So I guess they weighted each plug individual... very labor intensive .. I was also surprised tanking my blanks to find the top . heavy side down .. sometimes face grain on the side sometimes on the bottom sometimes cockeyed .. Give the blank a spin after marking it always comes out the same way buit different from others .

Nice tutorial Tagger.
I saw someone from this site test their version recently of the same thing and WoW, definatly on the to do list. It did an awesome double slide to one side then two to the other etc.

Musta been asleep to miss this thread. Those are sick Tagster. :sick: :btu:

Tangerine :drool:

:vamp: I see a massive pile of wood shavings around me in about 3 hours!

I would never have thought of Pre-swimming them in a bucket. With that style I see now that it is critical. Other plugs I put the fine grain down, and with a belly weight and it all works out -mostly. Thanks for putting in the time and sharing, Tagger. Numbskull, thanks for the x-rays. I was puzzled at first by the wrapped weight, but Tagger's post cleared that up; it makes the weight tunable. Brillliant lure, really...

Jake/Fred yes I agree .. brillant lure.. each one is weighted to that piece of wood ... impossible these days.. I see why VB is hung up on these.. really special wood .. Go read my post over there on ,,"Hydro Orientated Wood " and mess with it a little Jake/Fred...:alien:

This ones going swimming .. 3.4 ouces .. has shoulders,,made my own vmc cut hooks .Alaskan Yellow Cedar. This is a proto so High vs color.. I tossed everything I made (jigs) for other pics.. This is much closer.. exact if there is such a thing .. makes me wonder how consistent they were lure ta lure .. 30's and 40's,, and yes it is Hydro Orientated..

sweet plug.
but how you making them so nice if your on the hydro?
must take you a

w i c k e d,,,,, l o n g ,,,,, t i m e,,,, :smokin::spin: :uhoh: :sleeps:

Looks pretty. Peter, VB, was nice enough to let me borrow a few. I actually like one of the smaller versions, there are several, and I can't wait to try building one once I get my damn scanner fixed. P.

Peter VB helped me out too,, no scanner,,,old fashion way,, measure every half inch,, parting tool ,, connect the dots.

I tried one of these, sugar pine with no added weight, 3.17 oz and swims nice. I'll try some more now with different tailweights.

Test swam the white one yesterday .. Sat in the salt pretty much identical to the fresh water I been tanking them in .. Cast very well,,no helicopter,, right out there, It just sat on top tip of beak to 2" back from arse,, Round mound of top of the plug sitting high and dry very visible.. I gave it a good tug and started slow retrieve and it was gone.. Didn't make eye contact again with it until it was close and it was making its way back and forth slowly and randomly,, I was amazed at how slow I could retrieve this massive piece of wood.. I thought any slow down in retrieve and this plug was going to come to the surface like a cork . It didn't in fact it stayed down and did little swimmer like wiggles on very slow retrieve,, reel a little faster and it would start to sweep .. I would say retrieve on this plug should be varied all the way in . The plug stayed level also ,, did not dig down banging off the bottom but stayed very close to the bottom .. I tested off a beach so maybe it will bang the bottom in heavy current .. Very bottle darter like .. now to see how it catches .. Should be good ,,late fall , about 2 am., Only modification ,,,might be a good idea,, brought to my attention by Tobias is to delete "belly arse" hook and go with 2 hooks .. Andy says he's done it with no ill effects to plug action .. I still went with the 3 so it could be an option , I'd like to try two 4/0 or even 5/0 hooks on this plug .. think the wood can handle it .. all done with this... on to Lil Nike ,, I hope ..

Nice job Tagger. I have a Lil' something for yah:uhuh: I am on my 6th version, we'll see. Trying for different wx conditions. I can see variations of this thing for specific areas. You're explanation of how it swims is great. What a weird plug.

Looks great Tagger. Swims better! You bringing any to the Fest? Would love to see how close my eyeball one came to the "actual" profile....

Looks great Tagger. Swims better! You bringing any to the Fest? Would love to see how close my eyeball one came to the "actual" profile....
Better than that ,,, VB Peter will have his Floyd Roman Nike collection on display,, nothing better than seeing the real Mc Coy

Those are awesome.

Great! I'll bring the two that I've done. They don't quite sit in the water like you describe. But I'm getting there....

Curses on you, Tagger! You just keep fueling the obsession. Soon revenge will be mine :devil2:

I'm gonna try it with a hackle tail, no hook. I think that might be sweet.

Bandsaw Ed.. you do schweet stuff, you sure do like to punish yourself, and we all, are gratefull that you do.. Keep it comin Taggah :kewl:

Geeze, all I did was ask where the weight went! Tagger , I can't thank you and Numbskull enough for all this research and information. This plug is an incredible piece of work. Damn near Zen-like in it's apparent simplicity. Without this body of work, I would never have understood these enough to build one that worked. Now I have to get spinning! Thank you!!

Thank You Jake/Fred ...

are these dimensions and shape close to what you are turning