I'm looking to get my first conventional setup this winter and I'm looking for some advise. I've never fished conventional before. I'm looking for a set up for fishing 1.5 - 3 oz lures and eels since that's what I mainly fish so I'll get the most oppurtunities to get used to it. If I end up really liking conventionals, I'll get a heavier setup later. I'm thinking about a 1202L (I really want a two piece because this is a rod that will end up being left in my truck and only fished on shorter walks until I really get the hang of it) and an abu reel. The reel is what I'm looking for the most advice on. I'm looking to spend around $150 or so and based on the little that I know I was thinking about a 6500 size. The model is the real question. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The ones made in Sweden are the best ones right? Thanks for any input.

look on ebay for a used 6500 cs mag or mag elite. they are hard to find, but they are out there. I absolutly love mine. you can throw one ounce stuf up to giant pikies with this reel.
yes, made in sweeden is the best.

the sports mag is another option, but ive never used one so i cant comment.

if your starting out, make sure you get a level wind.(in abu speak, thats CS )

You can trust Nebe, he's a die hard conventional guy from way back :hihi:

:hidin:

There was a guy selling blem Chrome Rockets on EBY for a great price a while back. Not a mag but just as good.

-spence

i've gotten away from convench' for the most part but would never part with my 6500cs mag elite- great reel!

You can trust Nebe, he's a die hard conventional guy from way back :hihi:

:hidin:

There was a guy selling blem Chrome Rockets on EBY for a great price a while back. Not a mag but just as good.

-spence

just remember spence, i have taken more 20 lb bass in one night than in your entire bass fishing carrer :D how many other members are you going to insult today?

Abu just reinstated the original Big Game 6500 CL(leveleind) and CS(non-levelwing)Black Body. Best 6500 ever made for the salt. Also reinstated the Mag Elite and a few new issues, Custom Chrome Rocket georgeous reel and more models. We will have them in the shop in the next month or so.

Don M
King Cove Outfitters
www.kingcoveoutfitters.com

Don, the CL is non-level wind and the CS is level wind. Thats good to hear, maybe i will come down and pick up a big game from you :D

Don, the CL is non-level wind and the CS is level wind. Thats good to hear, maybe i will come down and pick up a big game from you :D

I don't think so Eben. A CL is the levelwind where as a CT is the open frame :usd:

aHHH YOU ARE CORRECT! :read:

I have to second the 6500 ambassadeurs that were recommended to you. I taught myself conventional on that reel and even for a beginnger its a joy to toss. My only complaint as a lefty is I wish they offered a greter selection for southpaws. As for ebay and the chrome rockets, think the guy to look for is Magnus from Sweden, tho I havent seen him offer anything recently.

just remember spence, i have taken more 20 lb bass in one night than in your entire bass fishing carrer :D how many other members are you going to insult today?

I think I owed you one :devil2:

-spence

the 6500 is a good reel, but the drags are a little sticky.

spend a little extra and try out a Daiwa Millionaire CV-X msrp is 170 or the CV-Z is around 200

I have the cv-x 300 and it is awesome.

check ebay often.

here's a pic of the cv-z 300a:

Thanks for the replies guys. I got a pm that made me do some more research and now I'm leaning towards paying alittle more for the calcutta 400. Your thoughts? It seamed to get the nod over the abu in all the older posts that I searched.

I've had problems with the calcuttas, thats why i switched to daiwa.

the drags in the calcuttas are dartanium and very fragile. After a few big fish they will most likely give you problems. You can upgrade the drags however. The calcutta TE's are another story, I'm not sure what drags are in them, but i hear good things, but expensive!

Changing the drag washers in a 6500 is no big deal to any good tackle shop. I have Penn HT100's in mine. I believe they are from a 965. For less than $150 you can get a Swedish 6500CS Rocket from that guy in Australia. This is arguably the best levelwind ever from Abu. 6500's are so easy that you really don't need the magged versions unless you are casting non-levelwinds in distance tournaments. The levelwind hardware adds just enough resistance to the cast to control most backlashes.

I wouldnt trade my 525 mag for anything; but you have to be able to thumb the line in the dark w/o looking
the 6500 mag elite is an expensive starter reel, but good to learn on, crank the mags up a hair to limit backlashes at first; back them off a bit and the distance will come...

Changing the drag washers in a 6500 is no big deal to any good tackle shop. I have Penn HT100's in mine. I believe they are from a 965. For less than $150 you can get a Swedish 6500CS Rocket from that guy in Australia. This is arguably the best levelwind ever from Abu. 6500's are so easy that you really don't need the magged versions unless you are casting non-levelwinds in distance tournaments. The levelwind hardware adds just enough resistance to the cast to control most backlashes.

Magged Avet. :bl:

always switch the drag out on the abu 6500s. ive got extreme smoothies in all mine. awsome drag. i dont think the washers are more than like, $10. it takes no time to put them in.

abu 6500s rock.

Seems like level wind would be the way to go for a beginner. I've thought about buying a conventional outfit for fishing the ditch where the extra casting distance would really help. How much distance would the level wind take off vs non-level wind? A level wind will still cast much farther than a spinner, right?

You might want to look at the larger abu too. When I was checking them out this spring, I learned that the the 7000 size has a bigger and better drag system than the 6500. If you are fishing braid, you might get away with the narrow spooled version of the 7000, which will hold around 300+-yards of 50# braid. I think JHABS has the narrow spooled one with the conversion kit and mentioned that it casts extremely well. The 400 TE calcuttas are real nice, and I will be purchasing another one for next year. We fished the 400 TE for the last five years during rhody commercial season, and they hold up extremely well.

A level wind will still cast much farther than a spinner, right?

I believe tha "much farther" is usually an overstatement.. One reason is that in many places you don't have the room to get a nice long drop and full back swing. I find it is easier to punch it out there with a spinner in those situations and it is often hard to put more than 75 or 80% power into it with a conventional. 95% with a spinner definately outshoots 75 or 80% with convench. That said, I still stick to my abu 7000's at the canal. Any way, many of the guns there really bang it out w/ con. even in tight spots. When I push it, I inevitably send a jig across the canal sans an attached line :hs: If room to cast isn't an issue, I figure the convench in the hands of someone who can use it will go farther than a spinner in them same hands

IMO , there's no contest. the black BG reels were the best ABU made. Glad to see the 6500's coming back. Now how about bringing back the Black BG7000's too.!

I've posted a million times that the BG 7000CL is my canal reel. For beaches , I have both a BG6500cl and a Clacutta 400. For areas where I don't need big distance and for eels I like the Calcutta for the drag. Anywhere I need distance and am fishing lures , I like the BG6500 better. On very bad wind in your face days with eels , I like the 6500CS Mag.

Oh , BTW , on ABU's both CS and CL are levelwinds. CT is non levelwind.

calcutta 400

calcutta 400
yup, best there is

The only thing to note on the calcutta is that the mono line capacity is a little on the low side if you are fishing 25# test or larger. Figure a good cast and a decent fish on the end and you can be looking at the bottom of your spool pretty quickly. Braid is no problem. I think a couple guys here use 20# ande and that is what I would also recommend if you use mono on this reel. From the boat you can get away with 25# because you can chase, but even that gets hairy once in a while.

The line capacity is what I was worried about with both the calcutta and the abu 6500 when I started doing more research. I won't be using more than 20# mono test (and I'll most likely switch to braid when I figure out what I'm doing) but even with that the capacity seems alittle low to me, but I know that most of you guys have more experience with this than me.

When you guys talk about the calcuttas, what model are you refering to. Looking around on line I've seen CT, B, and TE (the TE is out of my range).

Thanks again for all the responses.

The line capacity on the Calcutta 400 and Abu 6500 is virtually the same.

Figure you'll get about 160-170 yards of 20# mono (using Big Game as my benchmark).

That's enough under most circumstances. Unless you're throwing to another zip code and hit a fish at the end of your cast ;)

The only thing to note on the calcutta is that the mono line capacity is a little on the low side if you are fishing 25# test or larger. Figure a good cast and a decent fish on the end and you can be looking at the bottom of your spool pretty quickly. Braid is no problem. I think a couple guys here use 20# ande and that is what I would also recommend if you use mono on this reel. From the boat you can get away with 25# because you can chase, but even that gets hairy once in a while.

I have never had a line capacity problem with the calcutta 400 and have fished them for 10 years, I have landed fish of all sizes and in all conditions up to 50lbs. Mike is correct, unless your casting to alaska, its not a problem at all.......

I stated using convench in the surf a few years ago. I used them in freshwater since I was a kid. I posted a similar thread and ended up going for an Abu 7001. I always looked at the lefty models because I could not get used to reeling with my right hand. The 7000s seemed bigger and more sturdier than the 6500s. After using the 7001 for a year or so I never got comfortable with using it. I like to hold the reel in my palm and it was too large for me to hold in my hand comfortably. I shopped around and after playing with a calcutta, it was all I could think of using. I recenlty bought the 401 and have not used it yet but it feels very comfortable in my hand. Just a thought, you want to make sure its something you can plug with for hours.

400 b

For the 6500 Cl supporters, Don M and Salt Heart, what makes the black big game CL better than other Abu internationals like the rockets and mag elite?

RIJimmy,

I was thinking the same thing about getting the left hand retrieve model since I'm already used to reeling with my left hand. Also, it prevents having to switch hands after casting, right? How do other people feel about this?

I'm definately starting to lean heavily towards the calcutta also.

All I ever used before the Shimano Calcutta was Abu, produts. Namely the 6500 and the 7000. The main problem with all abu's is there drag, trust me, do not get them even a little wet !! Saltheart fishes mostly the canal, there is no surf , its a different animal all together when a wave hits the abu you may as well toss it in the truck, they do not have a tight fit and finish and the drags get extemely "chalky" when wet this = lost fish !!

I never knew any better and had to tear down the reel nightly to clean it and lube the drags, after first cleaning them all with alcohol, it was a pain..Then they had to be lubed with braid drag lube, way to much maintainence...

The calcutta uses a wet drag system, I dont care how wet it gets its still as smooth as the day it came out of the box, a quik rinse with fresh water after a trip is all I need to do.

If you fish the canal, breachways etc.. or any other place without much chance of getting a direct shot of water on the reel then stay with the abu, but, if you wade and get wet.the shimano is the one to go with.

I fished the Island with "snake slinger" this year and he was telling me every single trip how he has to take the abu down and clean....ask him now that he has the calcutta how he feels :rotf2:

Dont get caught up in this "rocket this" rocket that" jet bearings super jacked up 6500 this and that stuff...It doesnt matter. what matters is fishability and if the thing wont hold up the night I dont care how many bearings it has..

The shimano calcutta is the van stall of surf casting conventional reels in my opinion. and casts and handles like a dream...............

i have a pair of calcutta's a 400TE a 400S non levelwind. they are both very well made and small enough to palm easily. i keep looking at the 700TE but keep backing away because of it's size. my only complaints are the fact that they don't like to throw lite stuff like rigged sluggos, just isn't enough weight to get them going i guess, and they are tricky with braid especially the 400S. after throwing off several $20 plugs i switched back to 20lb ande back country and they are pretty much problem free. too bad they don't make a 550, half way between the 400 & 700. that would be perfect

as #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& said i switched from a 7000 to a calcutta and theres no way id go back.if your fishing every nite i think the calcutta is the way to go

Let me address a couple of questions in the threads since my last post.

The Abu drags do suck. However, you can improve them. The Penn washers that fit a 965 are an exact fit for the 6500 size reels (I used to use 704 washers but they were a little smaller and got chewed up around the edges over a season). Also, SmoothDrag washers are also available for all Abu reels.

The Calcutta drag is now awesome. The original drags were great as long as they stayed dry. Around 1999 or so, Shimano replaced the old drag with a material they call Dartanium and offered free upgrades at the shows over the winter. It stays smooth now, no matter what. You will never get the same distance out of a Calcutta than you will from a tricked-out Abu, but it's a smoother caster and feels more solid. Abu 6500 frames can flex under stress, too. The one piece frame on the Calcutta will not.

The difference between the old BG series reels and the rest of the Abus is that the original, made in Sweden BGs had brass plates and a heavier frame. The new champagne colored 7000 series BG reels, besides being made in Taiwan, have aluminum plates like the rest of the Abu line. I fully expect the re-introduced 6500 BG reels to be the same, Taiwanese made with aluminum plates.

fully expect the re-introduced 6500 BG reels to be the same, Taiwanese made with aluminum plates.
Sorry Mike they are the exact same as the original made in sweeden.Also the 6500CS & CT Mags are back

All new Abu's will also have a new better drag material simular to the Smooth drag. This will be starting with the newer 6500 sizes and down. You can tell the new reels by the newer style housing.

yes, the drag on the 400 is in a class by itself ! Since they changed to the dartanium, its amazing you can pour saltwater on it and still smooth as silk! I love my 400s all 5 of them!

As far as casting, I am not sure mike, I can lay into a 400 real good and get a very good cast acually with eels its almost its on par with what steve gets for distance with his VS..... It casts so smooth, if I lose a coupe of feet on the cast no big deal all the other features more than make up for it.

I have never had a line capacity problem with the calcutta 400 and have fished them for 10 years, I have landed fish of all sizes and in all conditions up to 50lbs. Mike is correct, unless your casting to alaska, its not a problem at all.......

That's right. Eels or close casting won't usually present you with a problem as far as spool depletion. I am thinking more along the lines of a long cast with a lure in a canal type environment. On another note #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I was reading Steve's article this month about his favorite line and you mentioned in some of your posts you also like the back country from ande. What makes the ande better than say, big game 20#? That's what I use now and am looking at back country for next year.

That's right. Eels or close casting won't usually present you with a problem as far as spool depletion. I am thinking more along the lines of a long cast with a lure in a canal type environment. On another note #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I was reading Steve's article this month about his favorite line and you mentioned in some of your posts you also like the back country from ande. What makes the ande better than say, big game 20#? That's what I use now and am looking at back country for next year.

I turned steve on to the line and now he loves it, why? its twice as abrasion resistant than big game, it has less memory, it cast smoother, my frequency of line changes has went down because the line simply hold up better. When I used big game the abrasion from my thumb alone while casting conventional was enough to nessesitate a line change every other trip, not so with the backcountry, I have had nothing but an overall increase in reliability , castibility and fish fighting power using the ande....

i fish casting reels about 75% of the time in the surf and only abu 7000-class reels. the only maintenance i give mine is to throw away the stock drags and replace them w/ smooothies or xtreme smooothies. after one season, new drags again as they get flattened and burned out w/ a real tight drag setting plus the heat buildup from steady fish pressure. i clean my own reels and probably clean my hardest fished 7000 twice or maybe 3 times a season as salt water does find its way into the gearcase, which is my only gripe. while it's open during the pre-fall cleaning, i clean the drag again. you have to oil the bearings every couple trips to avoid that whine-sound from dry bearings. i hear that too often from 7000 owners and they typicallly are the ones complaining about distance w/ that reel. clean bearings means at least 30% longer casts, easier casts, and less backlashes. also, you must clean the levelwind gear and tracks occasionally. some say use a 7000 w/ bushings. i have one that i use and it has bushing. i can outcast that bushing'ed reel by 25% and it's far easier to cast the bearing one.

i've had my 7000s slammed by waves countless times and can go back night after night w/o cleaning anything, but maybe throwing some oil on the levewind and in the bearings. the drag works perfectly. if i know that there is a good chance i'll be wading in the surf and the reel will be underwater, then a spinning reel w/ a closed gear case is the best choice.

i've seen the "wave" of casting reels come in and out over the years. calcuttas, penns, abu's, etc. some made a big impression early, such as the abu-magged 6500s and the penn 525 mag, but after being in the hands of some top casters and fishermen i usually see the same reel return to their hands, an abu-7000. to me, that says a lot. i have yet to be inspired to change. a calcutta 400 or abu 6500-class reel does not have the drag pressure nor capacity i need. a calcutta 700, maybe, but i didn't see some of them last a long time in the surf. saltist? who knows.

who else has experience w/ their casting reels in the surf, rocks, sand, bridges, whatever. what's your favorite and why?

what are you fishing for seawolf?? My 400s have taken many 40lb+ fish in heavy structure, breachways and everything in between? The only place I can see where one may need more capacity is the canal....I have caught fish on my calcuttas with 3oz jigs in a heavy curent in the gallilie chanell...Not one problem. I used to use a 7000 for well over 10 years exclusive, In my opinion the calcutta is far better and With the calcutta I dont have to oil the bearings every other trip or soak the level wind with wd or any of that stuff. Fads come and go yes but, I dont think you can call the calcutta a "here today gone tommorow fad" these reels have earned there place in the suds !

And once again I think we have a thread getting beaten to death...I guess eveyone has there opinion and I think eveyone has a point....all the reels mentioned here have there place and purpose its a matter of taste ...I really cant say anything more on this subject exept that If you ask me what reel to get for 98% of surfcasting duties my answer is the calcutta 400.......

It's true. Reel fads happen. But some reels stand the test of time. When the Newells first came out in the 80s, most of the guys I fish the Canal with retired their Squidders and got Newells. Many still fish with their 20 year old Newells. Some tried the Penn GS 535 when they first came out, and went back to their Newells, as the Penn was heavier, sat higher on the rod, and was harder to cast. Some tried the Daiwa Sealine-X reels, and found that in addition to the weight and higher profile on the rod, the canted gearbox made gripping the rod cumbersome. I've always liked Newells for the simplicity of design and ease of maintenence. The Penn 525 Mag is a pain in the ass to work on. Even oiling the bearings requires removing 6 screws. When Carl Newell came back with the old P series, I grabbed two, a 229 and a 220, because I was told they were just going to be a limited run. Now, everyone has them and they're back to stay.

Basically, I think it depends what you came in with. If it lasts and fits your needs, you stick with it. Many of the newer Canal regulars use the 7000. They liked the levelwind to ease their transition to conventional, and they stuck with what they learned on. When I was starting to learn conventional, all of the regulars told me "levelwinds are for sissies" and "it'll never stand up to sand". Some have told me now, that if they were just starting fishing, they'd buy a levelwind ;)

My Calcutta 400 is 7 seasons old and it has a lot of battle scars on it. Scratches and chips from rocks. It's still going strong. The reels have been on the market now for around 10 years. I don't consider them a fad any longer. They outlasted the Abu Morrum, which was their main competitor at first in that price point. They're a much better reel (IMO) than the Penn 965. The 6500 is a great reel too. Different price point, different features.

all very interesting
So I guess the black big game is the only abu w/ brass side plates? I thought the chrome rocket has them as well.

Can a penn drag get wet and still function? If I were to put HT-100's in an abu would that drag work ok if it got splashed?

The Chrome Sports rocket may have the brass side plates , I'm not sure. You also have to be careful about the custom runs of reels. If you order about 500 of them and are willing to pay , ABU will make you up special models where you can put all the goodies from various models into one special reel. usually the cost is very high.

I really loved the Abu morrum when it was new. trouble was it lasted only 1 season cause the bearing rusted immediately. they have the odd ball bearings , one big one and one little one. the set costs $40 to replace!!! That was it for the Morrum. I think for fresh water it would have been nice. anyway , as Mike P said , the Calcutta lasts for year. I'm not big on the thumb bar on the Calcutta . I think it reduces access to the spool . On the ABU's the reels are wide open from the back on the levelwinds.

Anyway , in over 8 years now since I switched back to conventionals (used them as a teenager then switched to spinners. ) the only reels I've liked are the BG 6500CL , the BG 7000CL (Both old black models) the Mag elites we got from Australia from Steve barret and the Calcutta 400. All have their little advantage under certain circumstances. The BG7000Cl being the main tool for 90% of my fishing now which is at the canal where I need almost 300 yards of line.

Someone asked about why the old BG series over the mag Elite and the sports Rocket. i can't comment on the sports rocket , never owned one. Bg 6500 vs a 6500 CS Mag , the answere is the stiffness of the frame and the drag clicker vs the mag casting control. The Mag casting control slider on the mag Elites is simply in a abd place. You set the thing on about 1.5 for casting eels into the wind. The web between your thumb and forefinger will hit the slider and shove it down to zero. The reel explodes. Everyone who owns one knows this happens. I now tape the slider down with black electrical tape.

Anyway , after all the discussion , if I could have only one reel for the beach , it would be the old model BG 6500CL. For the canal , There is only one reel in my world , its the old model BG7000CL.

I'm looking to get my first conventional setup this winter and I'm looking for some advise. I've never fished conventional before. I'm looking for a set up for fishing 1.5 - 3 oz lures and eels since that's what I mainly fish so I'll get the most oppurtunities to get used to it. If I end up really liking conventionals, I'll get a heavier setup later. I'm thinking about a 1202L (I really want a two piece because this is a rod that will end up being left in my truck and only fished on shorter walks until I really get the hang of it) and an abu reel. The reel is what I'm looking for the most advice on. I'm looking to spend around $150 or so and based on the little that I know I was thinking about a 6500 size. The model is the real question. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The ones made in Sweden are the best ones right? Thanks for any input.

Others may disagree, but if you are new to conventional tackle I'd advise you to start out with something shorter than 10 feet and definitely avoid braid unless you own a tackle store. A 10 foot rod will develop spool speed that is hard to handle and backlashes with braid will result in a lost plug. If you boat fish, I'd start with a 7 foot medium action muskie rod, a standard 6500 or 400, and either 17 Lb Mono or 20 lb fireline. If you beach fish, a Lamiglas GLB108 is a nice parabolic rod that will handle plugs 1-3 oz and handle decent fish comfortably. A slower (and with graphite that's all relative) rod unloads more smoothly and will allow you to learn faster and more enjoyably. I own bigger Lamiglas, Kennedy fisher, and zziplex rods, and lots of different reels, but the little Lamiglas 108 that I built 20+ years ago with a calcutta 400 and 20lb fireline is the outfit I'd choose if I had to pick just one. One final note, when you start stick with aerodynanmic plugs and concentrate on keeping things smooth, don't try to add distance with an extra snap at the end of your stroke and if you are right handed, get a right handed reel. You will want to thumb the reel with your dominant hand.