Whatever happened to “Catch and Release”?

Here is a question I’ve been pondering for the past few years. I’d be interested in hearing any thoughts on the topic.

For the past 10 years or so I’ve seen many sharpies, high hooks, etc, keep/kill large bass even though they have taken plenty as large or larger in the past. This past season I saw quite a few instances of it, the most recent incident happened in November when at least two 50s and a few 40s were killed by a few charter captains (with no paying customers aboard at the time.) These two guys have taken multiple 50s in the past. But this question is not just about them, its about everyone. Some of the guys I fish with on occasion also keep large fish that are not their “personal bests”. I am in no way denigrating anyone – I just want to know your opinions/reasoning.

I also have many cohorts in the surf who will not keep a fish over 30 pounds – to us fish this large are too valuable a resource to kill, the only exception we would make to our rule is a personal best – a fish for the wall - which I can understand.
If we want a bass for the table a 12-20 pound fish is more than enough.
Our fishing club contest also makes it easier by allowing entered bass to be weighed on a hand scale, witnessed by another angler, then released alive We instituted this club rule in the 1980s and have used it ever since. Some may scoff that this rule is rife for abuse but we’ve never had anyone cheat for a measly trophy or $30 cash prize.

While reading “Striper Wars” by #^&#^&#^&#^& Russell I was reminded of how and why the “Catch and release” craze began in the striped bass fishery during the 1980s. This concept really caught on and helped revive a fishery that was in peril. But even back then when there were very few bass to be had, there were fishermen who would kill every legal bass they could. The reason: commercial sale – which was/is a very valid reason (though maybe not very ethical at that time.)

Nowadays there is still commercial sale of striped bass and it remains a valid/legal reason to kill large bass, a policy that I don’t necessarily agree with but do understand.

So here are the questions: please keep your response civil.

Are anglers who keep big bass (and not sell them) even though they've taken many that are even larger, doing it just for a “Photo Op” or notoriety?

Are anglers just killing bass for entry into their fishing club contests?

Can we rationalize keeping large cows when we can just as well keep a smaller specimen?

Thanks for your response.

DZ

I don't keep many bass at all - a few for the table and I would prefer those under 15-20 pounds max. Would I keep a yearly best? Perhaps. Would I keep a lifetime best? Perhaps

Sure it is legal to be able to keep your two per day but is it really necessary??

DZ,

Re:"Our fishing club contest also makes it easier by allowing entered bass to be weighed on a hand scale, witnessed by another angler, then released alive We instituted this club rule in the 1980s and have used it ever since"

What if I told you that weighing the fish on a hand scale before releasing it increases post release mortality by well over 100%? I don't want to go into all the details but you will find tham in an article I'm working for On The water, what will appear in a couple of months.

Seriously tho, is mortality still estimated at 8%? So 16% +- for fish put on a scale. Do those mortality numbers change for weighing larger 25lb + size fish? I assume a higher rate, since most arent weighing much smaller than that

If I want a fish for the table, I will usually take the first decent size keeper I catch whether it is 30 inches or 30 pounds and release the rest. As for taking the real big ones, I like to document and authenticate a real large fish on an official scale, thus to me, the fish must be kept and witnessed IMO. One thing that has always been ingrained in me by one of my mentors is that if you want to brag or boast about a large fish, all the power to you, but make sure it is official and "show me the slip". When I hear stories about the guys who "released 50's", I think great, but how did you get an "official" weight with a hand scale or other device while out in the elements? To some, authenticating the fish is unimportant, but for me, that would be the reason I would keep one.

Interesting Mike - I've heard that before. Would be a very interesting article - I'm sure it would apply to bass being held out of the water by any means (lip gaffed, held by gill cover, etc). That said I like their chances of survival being weighed and released than being thrown in the cooler.

DZ

i agree with backbeach. i released a fish in the 30's this fall and was treated with doubt from a few guys. I just feel good knowing that that fish is still alive. I will only kill a large bass if i feel its a gone-er. The last big one i kept was 37 lbs and i still feel bad that i killed it. I fed alot of people with it, but personally i would rather eat a 28.1 inch bass anydayof the week.. less toxins.

let the breeders go.

I fed alot of people with it, but personally i would rather eat a 28.1 inch bass anydayof the week.. less toxins.

let the breeders go.

I agree

"So here are the questions: please keep your response civil.

Are anglers who keep big bass (and not sell them) even though they've taken many that are even larger, doing it just for a “Photo Op” or notoriety?

Are anglers just killing bass for entry into their fishing club contests?

Can we rationalize keeping large cows when we can just as well keep a smaller specimen? "

--------------------

1. could be but maybe it's just because they are proud to have landed a large fish or want to share the fish with family or friends or even people who don't get to fish.

2. Possibly, but first off they'd have to be in a club that has a contest and second they'd have to want to be in on the contest.

3. that's very interesting and I am sure opinions will vary. If I get a 50 from shore, I am 99.9% sure it goes on the wall or atleast a fiberglass mount of it will.

I usually keep about 3 or 4 fish per year and compared to the hundreds I release, I don't think that's too bad. I keep bass from 15 lbs to 25 lbs usually but I have kept in the past 5 years 2 fish over 30 and 2- 40 pounders. I have let alot of 30's go, but never released a 40 yet. I hope I get the chance to release a plug caught 40 someday.
I agree that if you intend to release a bass, then unhook it with as little harm to the fish as possible, by weighing it hanging vertically that can really harm a large fish.

I think KarlF released his personal best this year :btu:

i bring a camera with me on my kayak and snap pictures of the stripers i catch...i kept two this year and one was given to a family of four to enjoy....

I release every fish I catch. Every last one. :btu:

I keep maybe 2 stripers a year....the first decent keeper.....30 inches....for the table/freezer and I might keep my largest of the season.....that might only be in the 25-30 pound range. If I catch a personal best....it depends on the size I guess.....I might just get a few snap shots and let it go on its merry way....I won't mount a fish....it depends on the certain situation I guess.:huh:

I personally beleive most big fish are kept for the sole purpose of bragging. They are not good eating, skin mounts are a thing of the past and lotsa people need to prove how big they're johnson is by showing everyone their catch. Let them go, they are too rare a commodity to kill for a picture. But, 28 inch bass some of my marinade.... mm mm good.

They're probably keeping it so they will have a better chance of being believed. Its gotten pretty common within the fishing community for rumors to circulate that somebody's trophy catch was either a figment of their imagination or a commercial by-catch passed off as a rod and reel catch.

It's more complicated than just; catch-and-release is good, keeping fish is bad.

What do I think? My opinion is that long as a person is within the law, what they do with their catch is their own business. More effort should be made toward catching the poachers - a lot more fish are falling to them - they're not smiling for the camera.

Choggieman....you are generalizing by throwing a blanket over everyone that wants to keep a large fish....it is their fish and, within the bounds of the law, they are entitled to it whether you like it or not! Good for you...you let all yours go except the 28 inch yummies....but don't go pouncing on everyone that keeps anything over 32 inches....that is just plain wrong!:rollem:

PS- I take my pictures and then release.

Interesting Mike - I've heard that before. Would be a very interesting article - I'm sure it would apply to bass being held out of the water by any means (lip gaffed, held by gill cover, etc). That said I like their chances of survival being weighed and released than being thrown in the cooler.

DZ

DZ,
You have that right, the bigger the fish the less it's chance for survival after being weighted.

Personally, I keep less than I used to.
My preference is for the smaller fish, flavor, texture, and I hear the less toxin arguement as well. I'm of an age that I can remember when a 16 inch fish used to be a keeper, and I will tell you a fat 16-20 inch fish, is by far the best eating.

I know of one big fish kept by a well known trophy hunter this year, that would have gone back, had it not been hooked so deep, and bleeding profusley, and this was on a plug, so as not to get the bait vs artificial thing going. He has told me he will only keep large, if it looks like a record, from now on, he still keeps the occasianal 28 inch table fish, as do I.

And yes Slip, my personal best went back in this year, hooked thru the lip, easy measure, unhook, no pictures, and farewell.

I'd like to see the law read that a fish that is obviously going to die, under 28, could be kept legally... I see some with gut hooked, bleeding schoolies, going back in.. lot of seal food, that could be somebodys lunch, IMHO.

Anybody keeping fish to feed the family, I'm fine with that, I think we have all been there.

I wasn't trying to stir the pot. Too often someone catches or claims to have caught a fish they are dragging around town showing the world. In my experience the guy that is doing so is doing it for the glory, not for any other reason. I see all too often the instant heros made by a catch. In some cases I am a firm beleiver men have bought fish from draggers or commercial guys just to self promote themselves as heros. I am passionate about striped bass and hate to see a magestic fish killed for the sake of glory. I have more respect for the man that releases that fish than the one who parades it. In this sport credibilty is always in question, but if you have to lie about a fish, you are also self promoting. I have and will kill fish up to 20 lbs for the table, but I promise you will never see me or any of my fishing partners parade around with a big fish killed for the sake of showing off.

I agree with you there Choggieman....I hate waste...especially when people keep 2 fish everytime out...how much fish can you eat?:eek:

After having just finished "Striper Wars" my appreciation and understanding of what it took to get the bass to where its at today brings me to the conclusion that releasing fish should be the rule rather than the exception.

Will I ever keep another bass for the table?.Absolutely.Just nowhere near as many.

In order to help preserve the resource I have taken it upon myself over the last few years to not catch anything much over 30#:angel: , no matter how much I try.:wall:

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it.:cheers:

Whatever happened to “Catch and Release”?



Nowadays there is still commercial sale of striped bass and it remains a valid/legal reason to kill large bass, a policy that I don’t necessarily agree with but do understand.



DZ

I don't like the fact that so many guys take two every time, never mind it being #30 or #40, surf or boat, it doesn't matter. Some want to impress others and feed others.... they take it for granted, I've been guilty of that. But theres a fine line there. I think most surf guys don't realize how many 1000's and 1000's of pounds are taken commerialy every season. So why should I release so that some commerial guy can pay for his obsession?? F that!! I take what I want when I want and feel no guilt about it. As long as I'm not abuseing.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day....teach a man to fish and he becomes a chest pounding sharpie wanna be!:laugha:

I killed four stripers this year - all for the table. I released somewhere near 5-600. I fish 3-4 days per week from April to November on Cape Cod and often go south when the fish leave here, so I fish a lot.

As for your questions:

1. I have no way of knowing why another angler keeps a fish. So long as it is taken legally and disposed of legally, I don't think its' any of my business

2. I suppose some do but, as long as they take and dispose of them legally, I don't think it's any of my business.

3. I suppose some folks can but I don't. I'd rather keep a small fish but, sometimes have to keep a large one if it's injured.

When I started fishing, it was to fill the freezer. We'd codfish in March and April from shore. Do stripers when they came. And the annual Quincy Bay trip finished it off. Today I still enjoy the security of having a few fillets in the freezer, but it's not like it was; PACKED! I keep the smallish keepers and send the cows home. I owe them that. And they are the future of the fishery. Keeping the legal limit of keepers is ok, but I have this debt to the species. They got me through, and I'll see them through. Good thread, this one...

I saw a guy absolutely mutilate a 20 inch bass this Fall. Eye ripped out, bleeding profusely. I told him to keep it. He said "but it's not legal!" He threw it back and it wash up dead a few minutes later. Do you guys think he did the right thing? I don't. I think he was better off eating the fish than leaving it for the crabs and gulls.
Personally, I release a lot of my fish. I also catch a lot of fish because I put a lot of time in. I also keep some fish for the table. That's one of the reasons I fish. I like eating bass. If that's unsportsman like then, so be it. Just a point of fact. I never keep a fish under 34" and I think that the 2 fish 28" law is stupid.

1) There is no reason to keep 2 fish a day....ever

2) I don't think we should be killing 28 inch fish.

3) I liked it back in the early 90's when the law was one 34".

theres a fine line there. I think most surf guys don't realize how many 1000's and 1000's of pounds are taken commerialy every season. So why should I release so that some commerial guy can pay for his obsession?? F that!! I take what I want when I want and feel no guilt about it. As long as I'm not abuseing.

FYI almost 80% of the striper catch is by recreational fishermen. So if you want to know who's catching the lions share of the fish, just look in the mirror. :)

I once asked an Enviro Cop about keeping a dying striper. He said "Don't get caught, it'll get you fined. You can't eat it, but something will." As much as we hate that feeling of waste, I guess it's part of the price of the ticket.

I agree with you there Choggieman....I hate waste...especially when people keep 2 fish everytime out...how much fish can you eat?:eek:


I always have the same reaction to some of these photos. A pair of 20's produces some pretty big fillets. Even if you give some away to neighbors on both sides, it's still a lot if you are good at filleting a fish. I just don't get it.

I'm with DZ, all my 30+ went back this year. All but 1 under 30 did too. I'd keep more if I truly felt the fishery was healthy.

Our charter captains guided clients to way more then a few 40+ # bass on plugs from the whitewater this year, I'm proud to say we don't kill 'em all just to get a pic. Besides, it's not that hard to take a quick pic and slide them back into the sea. Every single fish was released and we can still barely keep up with the demand for charters. I find it tough to respect captains who kill a large number of fish just for bragging rights. If you're good word will spread with or without photographs of dead fish.

FYI almost 80% of the striper catch is by recreational fishermen. So if you want to know who's catching the lions share of the fish, just look in the mirror. :)


I for one would love to know where that figure is arrived from. And also if it includes all the bycatch dead stripers in that total. I am not that surprised by it since there are thousands more times recreational fishermen than commercial fishermen fishing for bass, so why not say that recs kill 5 times as many? What difference does it make which group catches the lions' share?

I fished alot this summer/fall (missed the spring run b/c i couldnt walk, (crashed the bike...). Anyways, out of the 300 or so stripers I caught, only a half dozen were keepers. 3 went home with me. All 34" or under.. Out of those three I got a bunch of meals, the 34 yeilded 7 small meals! A few fillets were even given to friends and family, and I still had a ton of fish in the freezer most of the season...infact i still have a big hunk in the freezer from Novembers catch.

I too wonder how guys killing 2 a night have the room in their bellies or freezers to keep all that meat..

I like to eat stripers but not every night!!
eh jus my 2cents..

The bloos on the other hand...they usually injure themselves during the battle so I take the dying ones home for my friend to smoke or I mix up a little bloopo for my dog cowboy...:tm:

I haven't been fishing long but have invested a lot of $$$ into gear,gas etcetera and it almost becomes a break even to keep some fish.It's always nice to invite the neighbors over for some eats or give some fresh filets to family or even hunting friends that reciprocate with game.Right now I'm down to maybe three vac bags of @ 2-3 pounds each.Hell I bought a foodsaver just to keep it nice so yeah,it's become a way of life.Why should I buy previously frozen tilapia filets when I can eat something I dream about catching all winter?Not to mention losing sleep as well as $3.00 a gallon for a 100 mile round trip.Plenty get sent back because I hope to striper fish with my kids when I get older and I don't feel I take more than I'm entitled to.
As for the second question;personally I'll let the #30's go and pose with and eat the #40's.They do not taste as good as the 30" fish but they still are good eats.
And lastly I've never belonged to a club but intend to join Newport and Narragansett and would do so with the hope of giving something back to the fishery.Not to mention adding my name to any piece of hardware imaginable:bshake:

I lose respect for a guy who's standing in a photo holding two very large fish. I can't see keeping two fish of any size in one night. I love to eat bass yet only keep one fish a month usually under 20#. my two largest fish this year were relased.why? because I already had fish in the freezer. I really cant say I would of released a 40 or larger with or without fish in thr freezer thou:hihi:basically I don't like to see waste or abuse legally or illegally.

I love to fish. It's an obsession! I am a conservationist, not a preservationist. It sounds a bit hypocritical to criticize a fisherman for taking his/her 2 fish whenever they want. I do not even comprehend why someone would question "why do you keep....?". If I want to eat it, sell it, give it away, show it off, so what?

I keep a few fish/month. Most are in the 28"-32" range. 1 fish of that size feeds 2 people, 3 very large meals. I freeze the leftovers for cakes and chowder. Larger fish are just too big for a small family. Giving away fish to neighbors IMO 1/2 the fish are wasted because a lot of people do not cook fish at home. If I do keep a larger because of hooking issues, I will give fish to family and good friends that I know will cook and eat within 24 hours.

I caught a few small tuna in late July. I ate it every night. I gave 2 nice steaks to a good customer/friend and the steaks are still in his F%*&^%%$$ freezer. Frozen Tuna steaks, I wanted to kill him, but he gives me lots of $$$ every year.

This year I kept 2 fish in one morning due to deep hook sets and excessive bleeding. Both fish were in the 40" range. I called 10 friends and made a feast on the grill that same day.

1 fish a week is fine for my family. Some weeks I will release all because I need a break from bass.

Someday, I will keep my lifetime fish as long as it exceeds my father’s catch of a 64# bass in 1966. My mother just made him remove the mount from the living room after 39 years and made him relocate it to his office. I personally thought she was committing a mortal sin, however, dad has to live w/her.

90% of the large fish I catch will not be lifted out of the water. They are quickly unhooked, revived and splash water in my face when they are ready to go. If I have a fishing partner to operate the camera great, if not I have the memory store in my fishing side of the brain.

:hidin:
After reading some this tread I tried to add up how many bass I filleted this past season and I estamate in the hundreds :hidin:
But I work a LOT of charters and Paying customers want their 2 fish to take home !!!
SORRY !!!

valid points by all, respect our sport for it's our tomorrows...

i probably kept 20 or 30 bass this season. all of them went to a foodbank and people who love fish. the same can be said for fluke, blackfish and tuna. overall i personally kept 2 or 3 bass, 1 small BFT, 7 or 8 fluke, and 3 or 4 blackfish.

I like to eat bass, so I'll keep about 4 a season. I like teen fish for the table. The only time I'll keep a big fish is if it's imjured and likely to die, or if I land one in a place where it's too risky to try to revive it and release it.

Personally, I could give a rat's patootie if anyone believes me or not if I mention that I released a 40 pound + fish. I know I caught it--why should I care whether anyone else believes it? :huh:

I primarily fish from private properties, or use private accesses to public spots. I always repay the owners who grant me access with a side from one of the first keepers caught from their property or access, if they are interested AND can cook it that day. I filet it for them and leave it iced in a cooler at their door for them. Blows them away. Guarantees me years of access. If I leave them both sides, their friends are often invited and if they are shorefront owners.....you get the drift. Two filets got shipped from my freezer to Chicago and we got a ten pound Christmas roast in return. I really enjoy having people eat striper that was swimming just hours ago. As I mostly fish predawn, most fish are released. (I do have to go to work from the beach) I would guess that I keep one in twenty legal fish and don't ever recall keeping more than one on a day. And I don't consider myself a trophy hunter. Most of the fish I can fool are 30-40 inch. If I need someone to vouch for that, I can often call Clogston or Luds48 over.:rotfl:

I keep enough fish to keep my family and friends bellies full, all right, I do keep a small pouch of wasabi with me at all times. STRIPER SHASHIMI!!, but I never kill more then will be consumed. Hey, with the cost of fishing: boat 3000/year, fuel 2800/ year,rack fee 1800/year, insurance 500/year, winterization 450/year, ice, bait, oil etc 3000/year.11,000 plus per year! I'll keep what I want and sleep well at night. Target the dredgers and netters that leave em dead as by catch!!! My 10 fish each year are well paid for.:read:

YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT GUYS WITH BIG FISH PICTURES

People who write and research the sport of fishing should be paying close attention to this board and the opinons and ideas of its members. Its the answers and opinons you all gave here that will keep the bass around.

Not to create a flame where thier isn't any, but there are boat captains that keep and sell anything and everything they get thier hands on when no one is looking. They preach one thing out of one side of thier mouth all the while hypocrasy rears its ugly head out of the other side of the mouth. And ther is no one around to watch them. Rec guys might take 80 % of the bass like MakoMike says, but that can't compete against rogue charter captains that know where the fish are on a day to day basis and hunt them down with or without clients on board. Someone is always around to watch the rec guy, but no one is ever there to watch the boat captain who has a propensity toward whatever........

When we have guys here like PETE G who rolls every bass back into the surf thats something to be proud of and looked up too. I congratulate saltwatersedge and thier clients for doing that. On the flip side thier is nothing unlawful about taking your two fish. Many people here have taken the stand since I have been on this site, since 2000, that C & R is the way to go to preserve our future. It used to be the other way around.

Thanks for all the replys - some real good opinions that were well thought out. I respect them all. They have really helped me understand the "mind set" of those of us who chase bass.

Appreciate all your input.

DZ

Missed this one yesterday; good provocative thread DZ
I probably killed 10 bass this season, maybe less; I cant remember
I prefer 15lb fish to eat, but like Mike P. said, if it's injured or bleeding profusly, I'm not putting a legal fish back thats going to die; I'd rather eat it than waste it.
I think you have a different perspective DZ, one that comes from being fortunate enough to have held multiple 50's; most of us who havent landed a fish that big can say we'd release them, but only at the moment of truth will we know for sure.

I also know who you were talking about w/ the 50's this fall; we can talk at the next meeting, I have fairly strong opinons about that that I dont want to discuss on here, remind me in a few weeks, and I passed along your requests to our January speaker.
B

People who write and research the sport of fishing should be paying close attention to this board and the opinons and ideas of its members. Its the answers and opinons you all gave here that will keep the bass around.

Not to create a flame where thier isn't any, but there are boat captains that keep and sell anything and everything they get thier hands on when no one is looking. They preach one thing out of one side of thier mouth all the while hypocrasy rears its ugly head out of the other side of the mouth. And ther is no one around to watch them. Rec guys might take 80 % of the bass like MakoMike says, but that can't compete against rogue charter captains that know where the fish are on a day to day basis and hunt them down with or without clients on board. Someone is always around to watch the rec guy, but no one is ever there to watch the boat captain who has a propensity toward whatever........

When we have guys here like PETE G who rolls every bass back into the surf thats something to be proud of and looked up too. I congratulate saltwatersedge and thier clients for doing that. On the flip side thier is nothing unlawful about taking your two fish. Many people here have taken the stand since I have been on this site, since 2000, that C & R is the way to go to preserve our future. It used to be the other way around.

If someone wants to keep a fish we certainly don't stop them, we just don't encourage it either. You'll never hear any preaching about catch and release, but we try and support the idea. If someone rolls into the parking lot with 2 (or more if they're commercial) slobs in a coffin I'm the first out there to take a look at them.

Bottom line is sites like this, businesses like ours, and the sport we enjoy, are completely based on the health of the striped bass fishery. What the hell is "healthy enough"? Or that the "stocks are sufficient"? Sorry, imo it could always be better. Every fish released supports the fishery.

. Rec guys might take 80 % of the bass like MakoMike says, but that can't compete against rogue charter captains that know where the fish are on a day to day basis and hunt them down with or without clients on board. Someone is always around to watch the rec guy, but no one is ever there to watch the boat captain who has a propensity toward whatever........



I think most regulatory agencies count the charter and head boat catch under the "rec" category ;)

I for one would love to know where that figure is arrived from. And also if it includes all the bycatch dead stripers in that total. I am not that surprised by it since there are thousands more times recreational fishermen than commercial fishermen fishing for bass, so why not say that recs kill 5 times as many? What difference does it make which group catches the lions' share?

those figures are easily obtained from the NOAA fisheries website. and for 2004, it's actually about 81%, 2003 was around 76%.

commercial harvest for all states for striped bass totalled about 6 million lbs. in 2004.

recreational harvest was about 26 million lbs. in 2004.

i dont think those figures include bycatch.

but that info is out there too if you do a little research. for example, for 2003 according to the atlantic states marine fisheries council, recs landed 76% of the fish and this is broken down as 48% harvest and 28% discard. commercial harvest was 24% total divided as 18% harvest and 5% discard.

no matter how it's worded i think his point was rec's kill more bass total, and most rec's probably think, "commercial fishing kills so many fish, it won't matter if i keep all the fish i can".

but the people get mad when they see commercial pics like this (2005 NC commercial fisherman, this was supposedly his whole season's catch):

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5384/picture0107xl.jpg

even though recs ultimately kill a lot more bass...

btw, i really know nothing about this subject. the internet is an amazing thing though. i can pull up these numbers with real references and it took me about 5 minutes of research.

as for me, i prolly kill more bass than the average rec fisherman (always within legal limits)...and i dont feel bad about it at all. absolutely not a single ounce of my fish is wasted. i dont even filet fish cuz that wastes too much meat (ton of meat in the head and backbone). we eat every edible portion of the fish.

I caught a few small tuna in late July. I ate it every night. I gave 2 nice steaks to a good customer/friend and the steaks are still in his F%*&^%%$$ freezer. Frozen Tuna steaks, I wanted to kill him, but he gives me lots of $$$ every year.

nothing wrong with frozen tuna....think about this, all the fish in the tokyo fish market is sold in the frozen state, and we know how fanatical they are in regards to tuna quality. pretty much all the commercial tuna are flash frozen, which means all the tuna in japanese restaurants across the usa was once frozen.

sashimi from frozen tuna is delicious. no reason to be mad at him...your friend can enjoy it over months, while yours is all gone.

I kept 4 bass this year and probably released over 100. My father always gets mad at me for putting so many back because after all some of my gear he bought years ago, at this point I lie to him and tell him i got skunked even if I caught 4 "keepers"

One night this year my friend and I went out and caught 4-5 nice fish and released all of them. On our ride back in I caught a 22 inch fish that completely swallowed my jig. Even with my nice pliers I had a hard time getting the hook out and the fish was bleeding profusely. There was absolutley no way this fish was going to survive and I did attempt to revive it. You know what I did? I put it in the cooler and took it home. The only undersized fish I have ever taken. I know its illegal but in this situation I took my chances with the law because the image of a little bass floating upside down seemed a great waste to me. I may raise some eye brows with this story but we are entitled to our own opinions. I agree with what most have said here I would rather keep a 28" than a cow. That little bass was the best striper I ever ate in my life although the circumstances were not something I would like to face again.

here's a little bit about weighing your trophy with your boga and then releasing it (this was for muskies, but i think a lot of it applies here):

The Risks of Vertical Holds:

1. Muskies lifted by a gaff or suspended for weighing from the tip of the lower jaw risk internal separation of the connection between the two halves of the lower jaw (it is a two piece bone) and this will prevent effective feeding after its release.

2. It has been reported that big largemouth bass when held unsupported by an exaggerated lip lock have suffered jaw damage. Now consider a 15 to 40 pound muskellunge - its jaw and associated muscles and ligaments were not constructed to support that weight under the influence of gravity.

3. The V-shaped connective tissue on the underside of the head comes under significant stress (stretched and distended) when absorbing the unrelenting weight of the fish's torso. This are is attached to the gill arches and delicate vascular tissue which, if damaged could result in the death of the fish minutes after release.

4. The cervical vertebrae (the sections of the spine connected to the skull) are subjected to enormous strain making likely nerve damage. Under the influence of the weight of the body, it will bend backward and twist in unnatural ways. A thrashing muskie will strain the delicate nerves in a range of directions,

5. Another fairly evident problem with vertical holds is organ slippage. Within the abdominal cavity, the liver, kidneys, heart, gonads, and GI tract are held in place by membranous connective tissues. Within a vertically held muskie, the force exerted by some of these heavier organs will result in these tissues stretching and tearing as the organs slide back toward the pelvic fins.

6. Any time a fish is lifted vertically, there is a greater chance that the it will be accidentally dropped. The result is a fish banging around the bottom of the boat. The consequences of this include internal injuries as well as loss of the protective mucous and damage to the cells that produce it.

the other side to this is, what somebody else said: that the released fish still has a better chance than if it was in your fishbox. also, all of this is basically anecdotal. havent seen a good well designed study yet. meaning there is no real statistical evidence that these things are true. the study maybe out there, but i didnt find it.

despite all that, i can probably believe holding big fish vertically isnt good.

Hi DZ :)

I can't fish off the beach at lunch because of where I live.
So if I am on the island or cape cod for a weekend and I am lucky to catch a striper I do keep it. Yes I fish alot,,,do I catch alot .? NOT

My friends expect fish every time I come home ...lol

My personal best striper from the shore was let go to live another day. The day before the MV derby started, I thought for sure I would catch him again in the next 30 days!....lol

I sold many stripers in the late 80s and 90s , last time was in 1992
and still buy my license every year, just "because"

Besides I think Tuna is better eating fish :rotf2:

Have a great New Year

VB

The law here in Mass. says you can keep 2 fish 28 + inches. If this is what you do please do not feel bad about it so long as they make it to yours or a friends table. If you feel so stronge about not keeping bass as food then why fish for them at all?????????????????? because the law says you can right? So please do not tell me you are trying to conserve the fish this to me would mean not to fish at all as some would like to see!!!!!! I do keep 15 to 20 fish per year for the table and like the smaller fish for food. But to you that say let the big ones go to breed I have asked this many times of the experts in the field and have been told every time that the larger the fish the more likly they will not be around in a few years but that a 28" fish will be for many years to come so you do more harm by keeping those 30# and under than the large fish as far as the breeding gos. This makes sence to me even thought I do release most large fish I get.

nothing wrong with frozen tuna....think about this, all the fish in the tokyo fish market is sold in the frozen state, and we know how fanatical they are in regards to tuna quality. pretty much all the commercial tuna are flash frozen, which means all the tuna in japanese restaurants across the usa was once frozen.

sashimi from frozen tuna is delicious. no reason to be mad at him...your friend can enjoy it over months, while yours is all gone.

Very true but flash freezing does a lot less damage to the flesh of a fish than the freezer that you have at home because it freezes so much faster. Almost all the fish that you get at a sushi bar was once frozen.

Just curious, but are the 2 fish caught per person and kept on charters that Raider Ron mentioned considered comm or Rec ?

I don't begrudge anyone for taking what is legally allowable but myself I did not keep one fish this year other than some school bluefin tuna to eat. Last year I kept one big fish that was sure to die but let my biggest fish of the year go, a 47 inch fish on Race Point one night.
Back in November the day after Veterans day, myself and Art Crago let many, many fish between 20 and 30 pounds go while plugging the Elizabeths in one day.

I like bass to eat, unfortunately the ones I enjoy are like 16 to 18 inches long and haven't eaten one like that in a long long time. The big ones are heavy of palate to me. Not my cup of tea so to speak.

Now if I was to land a 60 pounder I would defenitely mount that fish and could probably get a good nights rest once and for all in bass season. Would definetly be a head clearer.

My best fishing was not in the late 70's and early eighties but was when the limit on bass went to 36 inches here in MA. I could float the east and west bars of Barnstable Harbor and think nothing of taking 5 or 6 fish in a day over 20 pounds on my fly rods, never mind the dozens of others that were 30 inches or better. That was my most "fun" fishing in decades.

I am now of the persuasion that there should be some kind of slot limit.

Good thread Dennis!

But to you that say let the big ones go to breed I have asked this many times of the experts in the field and have been told every time that the larger the fish the more likly they will not be around in a few years but that a 28" fish will be for many years to come so you do more harm by keeping those 30# and under than the large fish as far as the breeding gos. This makes sence to me even thought I do release most large fish I get.

Who are these experts? I just have trouble believing that. A 30# fish could be around for another 5 to 10, maybe more years.

I believe in the idea (and plenty of unbiased scientists support it) that we are changing the gene pool in heavily harvested fish species by focusing on taking the larger fish. To me, a 30# plus fish is likely a genetically superior fish. She survived when her school mates haven't. Maybe she's smarter, faster, stronger, bigger, etc. What happens when you take that breeding fish out? Un-natural selection. Now maybe this fish is past it's breeding prime (less and lower quality eggs), but it's still dropping genetically superior eggs if it is in fact breeding.

Just thought I'd chime in on a couple side issues. I know that many people say that big fish should go back because they don't taste as good. Just felt the need to mention that I agree that they taste (texture) different, but wouldn't agree that they don't taste good. Keep in mind that some people can't stand bluefish while others think of them as prized table fair. I killed one big fish on the Cape two years ago that fed my dad, brother and I for the entire trip.

Second - I can't say that I agree that no one should keep two fish per day. If I decide to keep fish on a particular day, I will usually keep a limit - I figure if I'm going to the trouble of icing, cleaning, packaging etc. I might as well keep my limit. I'd much rather spend most of my days letting fish go. In other words I generally kill no fish, but if I do, its usually two.

Having said all that, I never kept a single fish this year. Most years I do keep a few, but just never wanted to kill any this year. Just thought I'd mention that since the above might make me sound like a fish hog. And it has become harder for me to kill a big fish. Just a personal thing - but I look at 'em and figure they've beat the odds - I don't like being the one ending that streak.

I don't think there is a really good reason to keep a large fish. With the apparent shortage nowadays of those very large fish I think that every one we can keep alive is better for the fishery.

If the reason to keep a fish is to eat it, I agree that keeping 12-20 LBers or so is a better option. If the reason is to mount a personal best, I think there are enough places around to get a "fake" mount done that will duplicate the fish in a lifelike manner with just an inches measurement & weight estimate or picture if that is available. I don't see the point in killing a big fish just to mount it.

Personally, I don't keep any fish - both because I'd rather see them swim away & because I never feel like leaving my spot to go put the fish down & then having to clean it in the middle of the night.

Pete-G the experts would be DR John Reardon head of marine bio at U-Mass 30 yrs, #^&#^&#^&#^& Hickney Mass division of marine fisheries, Gb Jr marine bio Mass division of marine fisheries. Now I am not saying they are right but me being just a dumb old fisherman will bow to thier years of knowledge and work in the field and go with it. That and it does seem to make sence to me,and every time I ask I get the same answer also as you said they say that the eggs from the older larger fish do not do as well.

I for one can’t understand how on one hand some of you make it a “sin” for any rec fishermen to keep a bass but it’s OK if that same rec purchases a $60 permit, can take 30 or 40 fish per day to pay for his gas and fishing expenses? Because of tradition?…oh, yeah, and while doing so turn the cheek and allow them to cull out just the big ones and totally ignore the SB black markets and by-catch dumps.. Sounds hypocritical to me. You support commercial SB fishing but think recs should put all theirs back. I am with Goose in this one…Fthat.

MM? Are you from PITA? From a lifetime of fishing for bass it is my personal belief (no technical evidence) that the SB is a pretty hardy fish. It does not die very easily. This is not a brook trout in a clear stream. This is a sturdy ocean going fish that can take a lot of abuse from other critters in its environoment. Also, it is also easy to lie using statistics. “100% more” of an insignificant number is still insignificant. But you put the 100% in bold type and it creates an illusion of a problem. Is it or will it cause a problem? I hope before he publishes anything more he has accurate scientific technical FACTS that have been reviewed by others working in this field before he spews personal opinions on the subject. I doubt that weighing a fish for a few seconds kills them. I have seen and caught SB swimming around with a huge bite taken out of them from a seal and it healed only to be caught and released again (by me). I doubt picking the fish up will kill it. Give the SB more credit then that. Not to put words in his mouth, but what you actually saying is not to go fishing. That is the subliminal message you are sending. Anything we do seems to incur some mortality and since that is so bad the only thing to do is not go fishing and just stay at home. Again, I am with Goose…Fthat.

And the 80% number...is pure BS, they haven't learned to count yet no less do percentages.:devil:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5384/picture0107xl.jpg



need more ice on those fishys!:hihi: