View Full Version : Seal Populations


Sweetwater
01-02-2006, 02:12 PM
In the most recent “On The Water,” there was a comment by Pops (Ask Pops) that the increased presence of “worms” in cod (and I found quite a few this season) is due in part to the greater presence of seals. Evidently, this parasite’s lifecycle includes some stage of its life in seals (many parasites require multiple hosts to complete their lifecycles).

Seals have become an increasing problem in the north Cape Cod area. Recently, beaches in Chatham had to be closed due to high levels of fecal chloroform from gray and harbor seals. This is a dangerous bacterium that affects the intestines. While normally associated with human waste and untreated sewerage, the seal population has grown so large that they are posing real risks to humans and other animals.

I, and several others I know, have had many bass taken off my line (both from beach and boat) this year, by seals who wait for a fish to be hooked, then take the struggling fish. I’ve even had them follow behind my boat between my trolled lines.

NMFS has determined the minimum population to be 91,546 individual animals. Gray seals on Muskeget Island (off Nantucket) and Monomoy Island (off Chatham) grew by an estimated 20.5 percent annually between 1994 and 1999. My guess is that between 1999 and 2005 the rate of population increase has been at least as much again, if not greater.

My personal feeling is that it is time that the gray seal population be better managed for health reasons, quality of the fishery, and potential damage to (occupation of) key seabird breeding grounds (used by piping plovers and others).

Anyone have any ideas as to how we recreational fisherman (and concerned conservationists) can provide input about concerns about this growing problem?

Karl F
01-02-2006, 02:58 PM
A Marine Biologist told me the cod have taken to dining on seal poo, .... that is where they are getting the increase in worms (parasite) from... have NOT eaten cod since, BTW.

The cod have been in a decline for years, as have the forage they were accustomed to eating. Seal management, (bring back the bounty!) would go a long way ion helping the cod, the bait, and a lot of other species, flounder, fluke, sand dabs, sand eels, and, oh yeah Stripers!, just to name a few.

I would bet it will never happen, the Feelgooders, PETA, etc, would use the cute pictures of seal pups sunning on Monomoy as the poster children to "Save the Seals".......

vineyardblues
01-02-2006, 03:13 PM
Karl, just do it !

stealth man :bl:

vb

Swimmer
01-02-2006, 03:17 PM
Seals repopulated the area because of the Boston harba cleanup and now thier destroying there own habitat. Do I hear a motion for a Seal H&%**T uuurrrr I meant sea hunt.

gone fishin
01-02-2006, 03:22 PM
It is interesting to note that I have observed quite a few seals dead on the beach at PI. They all seemed to have a mysterious hole in their head. I would venture a guess that they were raiding lobster traps or pehaps sport fishing?:gf: :eek:

jim sylvester
01-02-2006, 03:24 PM
could be directly related to the increase of shark sightings in the area!!!!!!!!

afterhours
01-02-2006, 04:32 PM
$5 a nose.

BigFish
01-02-2006, 04:35 PM
At least the previlence of guns is contributing some good to the reduction in seal population!:rocketem:

Karl F
01-02-2006, 04:41 PM
Don't Shoot 'em on ORV access beaches... 2-3 years ago they found a few shot on my beach... there was much discussion that if many more were found shot, they'd pull the plug, close it down, and lock the gate.

Access folks, never lose site of that. Please!
We have lost waaaaay too much already.

Sweetwater
01-02-2006, 04:49 PM
I strongly agree with Karl! Don't take any hasty actions on the beaches. They're just looking for a reason to shut us out. But we can lobby the powers that be to understand and take into account how the seals are impacting the coastal areas and fisheries.

There is a huge economic toll to be paid in those coastal areas if the seals drive away tourists (because they can't swim in the ocean) and fishermen.

However, just like I fear that wildlife management will not look at how the raccoons, skunks, crows, fox, and coyotes are devestating the piping plovers attempt to recover; they will refuse to see how the seals are negatively impacting the area, and will choose to blame humans for every problem they see.

Flaptail
01-03-2006, 11:26 AM
Having attended a few meetings this past spring with the Monomoy Island National Wildlife Refuge people on thier current management plan review, it came to light that;

A. The NMFS, who has jurisdiction over the seal population, and who is governed by the Marine Mammal Protection Act, do not, nor have they ever, really known what the historical population of seals along the outer Cape, Monomoy etc., was. They will, under condition of annymomity tell you they belive there are way to many.

B. It will take a study to tell what is and what isn't a viable population that can interact with the other marine speceis and there affects on those other species. It will take 5 to 7 years to conduct that study.

C. Then it will take hearings both public and privately in the hallowed halls of the federal government to reach a decision on a management plan.

D. The the Sierra Club, The International Coalition for Animal Welfare and P.E.T.A. and a host of other "eco-welfare" groups will mount there well funded, though mis-guided law suits against any such management plan if it in any way, shape or form includes "thinning the herd" through biological or other means (read: guns). This adds another five to six years to the mix.

E. A settlement with these organizations is reached and no one wins.

Meanwhile, the bait stays offshore, the bass stay offshore, there are no Window Pane Flounder, Cod, Sea Bass, Blackback Flounder, Pollock, Crabs, etc., left inshore for them to feed on or us to catch.
A blight hits the seals because there is not enough sustenance to support 10,000 seals and they migrate to inside of Cape Cod Bay in summer, Sandy Neck, the beaches of Brewster, Orleans, Wellfleet, Truro, P-town, Sandwich, Yarmouth and Dennis in the bay and finally into the canal eating all the bait, lobsters, crabs and making it unsafe for vessels to transit the canal. The Herring stocks which are almost wiped out had just started to rebound, we cannot take them yet but the seals will find them and have a field day.

I'm depressed. :doh:

Nebe
01-03-2006, 11:40 AM
:hihi:

gone fishin
01-03-2006, 11:52 AM
Well put Flaptail !!:tm:

Diggin Jiggin
01-03-2006, 12:01 PM
What we need is something that can control the birth rate, maybe something that can be put in some type of bait/food that can be distributed on momomoy /muskeget to make a percenatge of them sterile. I know they distribute a rabies vacine for racoons thru a food program.

No ones ever going to let a hunt happen, but if there was a way to limit the numbers/ control the population thru a non violent means I think people would go along with it.

Swimmer
01-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Why is that the person Flaptail spoke with cannot say publicly that even before a study is conducted there may be sufficient evidence to come to the conclusuion that the seal population is above what is currently sustainable and the seals have started harming the entire fishery? Certainly if this person said this to Flaptail then thier has to have been some conversation amongst this person's peers about the seals overpopulating different areas where they probably never lived before. I used to hang out on North Beach in the late fifties and early sixties and never saw any. I know my observations are not scientific, and maybe neither are the person who spoke to flaptail, but it certainly is a warning signal that close observations whether it has a scientific basis or not should start.

Its somewhat like the coyote problem. Thier aren't many people who realize that hunting coyote is permitted in Mass. by a chosen few. Maybe this could be handled the same way.

Pete F.
01-03-2006, 12:28 PM
And I predict that the only way something will happen is, when Great Whites pick off a few seals in the middle of a beautiful beach day in front of a bunch of vacationers, some of whom have camcorders.

baldwin
01-03-2006, 02:17 PM
I don't know where that estimate of 91,000 came from, I read a recent article that estimated the current gray seal population at 7,000 to 10,000. Nonetheless, it seems like there are too many. That's what happens when people upset the balance. We end up with too many of a problem organism, and protect it.

LeCounts1099
01-03-2006, 04:03 PM
Way too many Outer- Cape sunrise "blitzes," after skunk nights in the very same spot!... that turn out to be 6- 12 or more seals the size of VW's! That never happened 6-7 years ago (except maybe inside Chatam I.) ... last 2-3 years that's all that seems to happen for me up there, everywhere from Race Pt. to Nauset!

Offshore
01-03-2006, 04:22 PM
Karl F got it right (in both posts). There are just too many seals on the outer cape.

And, much as I'd like to see the problem solved in the way the Cape Ann lobstermen took care of it in the 40's and 50's (30/30's in every boat), We can't do anything that will endanger or restrict beach access any more than it is allready.

I think Flaptail has come closer to an answer than any other. I too attended those meetings at Monomoy last Spring and a study is needed by NMFS, but then all the big greens, PETA and the treehuggers will jump on it.

Looks like no easy answer.

Sweetwater
01-03-2006, 05:02 PM
I'd like to thank everyone for their "rosey" assessment of the problem (sarcasm).

However, I'm an eternal optimist. I think just about everyone who fishes is an optimist or you'd never put on your waders. In any case, there are only two differences between the PETA types and us.

1. They're nuts and we're not
2. They are much better funded and organized

If we care about this fishery, and wish to preserve for ourselves, our children, our grandchildren and their's; we need to have a voice in this. I'm admittedly a novice on such things. Where do we start?

Slipknot
01-03-2006, 05:46 PM
:( well that just sucks
Now I need an anti-depressant Flaptail:splat:
what a bleak outlook


maybe they will all get a disease and die off, wouldn't that be great?:tooth:

Backbeach Jake
01-03-2006, 05:56 PM
:( well that just sucks
Now I need an anti-depressant Flaptail:splat:
what a bleak outlook


maybe they will all get a disease and die off, wouldn't that be great?:tooth:

Yeah like lead poisoning. 5bucks a nose I'll do it for no and supply the ammo. Especially after seeing those lazy mothers wait for guys to hook up and then rob them at Mission Bell. Beautiful fishing action ruined by those slugs.

BigFish
01-03-2006, 05:57 PM
Seal tastes like chicken!:smash:

BigFish
01-03-2006, 05:59 PM
Seal...the other dead meat!:jump1:

BigFish
01-03-2006, 05:59 PM
Seal....its whats for dinner!:eek:

Backbeach Jake
01-03-2006, 06:18 PM
Ya know BigFish, ya throw a rack of seal ribs on the grille, ya got a mini Hiroshima. Flames go at least 10 feet!

Redsoxticket
01-03-2006, 06:19 PM
The NMFS may have a sufficient case study by recognizing that Canada is allowed to cull the seals. The only difference is the location but the impact on the ecosystem is still the same which is distruction of the existence of other species.
Batter Up.

Flaptail
01-03-2006, 07:50 PM
I think I have figured a way out of this. Bear with me now......

(Larry, you triggered this thought with the tastes like chicken thing)

The artic circle is warming right? The ice cap is melting and shrinking. Well. that affects the lifestyle of the native eskimo and other indigenous peoples there right?
Seals live up there on the ice but if there is no ice there is no way for the eskimos to get them. They go hungry.
Well we offer to let them hunt ours!!!! Tribal rights and all, they don't even need a license! Take as much as you want. Meat, blubber, skins and furs, take it all we don't mind!!!!:btu:

Backbeach Jake
01-03-2006, 08:30 PM
:think: We have a winner! "Dear Mr.& Mrs. Inuit; youve just won a trip to Cape Cod , Mass......" Flap, run for office, will ya?

Karl F
01-03-2006, 10:59 PM
Well Sweetwater... looks like this thread has been hit with the dreaded SB hijack curse... :hihi:

Sorry we can't give you the direction you asked for...
I have no clue where to start, I'm of an age where I pick my battles carefully, and this one is a toughy.
I hope you find an avenue, and keep us advised.

One of BBJ's post, (I think), made me think of a DVD I watched New Years, a friend burnt all of his old home beach and fishing movie highlights onto one, and shared it with me.
One vignet, his buddy has a fish on, daylight.. seal comes in like jaws behind it, and strips it off his hook. A seagull that was following the fish in, swoops in and trys to steal it from the seal. Now, here is where it gets interesting.... the seal, instead of making off with his lunch, now enters into a game, of toying with the seagull, this goes on for a good ten minutes. Sounds, then surfaces, taunts the gull with the fish, at one point drops the fish, and takes a nip at the gull.
The seal finally tired of this, grabs the fish, so that it is long ways in his mouth, stands up high on his tail to show the guys on the beach, he still has their fish, shakes his head at the still hovering gull, and finally sounds and swims off.
They have become very bold, and coy... Sea-Rats.
I cannot wait for the Great Whites to become as bold.