ok,, not wanting to start a flame war here. :smokin:
but anyone else think this total herring ban is gunna work?

lemmie just say a few things first.
there's no herring down south,, the cape,, etc.. right?
up north there's thousands.
i live 1/4 mile from the ***** runs, yes runs, there's more than a few.:faga: and i see no shortage of herring what-so-ever.
i'm there, three-four times a day watchin':eyes: lookin for the little critters. even down river to the locks,, they come bye the thousands, maybe tens of thousands..
sure,, you go at noon on a bright sunny day they aren't there..but come quiet time it's astounding.:eek5:
i took over 600 last spring...wait a minute... they were ALL legal.. 25 fish per person, per open day.mon. wed. fri. sat. x2 guys you get the picture..and i know guys :devil2: {some from this site} who took many more than me..before you go saying i'm a reason for the problem. lemmie say i been going there for 10 years and it's the same thing every year. so,,, our impact has not had an effect on our runs..
they come, they spawn, and they come back like clockwork.
even with some,, uhh,,"non fishermen",,,, taking trashbags/coolers full :rocketem:


how is closing MY run gunna bring back the herring to the cape? or rhode island?

these fish return to the same river to spawn right?

there is no ladder at my run. it fell down some years ago. it's the end of the line..maybe someone could help me/guide me the right button to push to get a ladder put in?


i think? :huh: one of the problems down south,, for example,, is they give you something like 11 fish that the warden scoops outta the ladders for you? right?
why take the strong, willing {horney} fish outta the ladders?

lastly,,why not transplant my pregnant fish down south?:think:
trust me it ain't that hard to make baby herring,, anyone with a backyard pond can get herring to re-produce:humpty:
i released more babys than i took.

i fish live bait. and i'm gunna need a reality check come spring.
:hidin:

Interesting post Freak, im curious to see the responses.
Id assume that if the numbers of herring go back up, the population would look for other rivers to spawn in, and return to the other native herring rivers along the coast...just as bass did when the population came back.
Here on Long Island ive seen the herring runs before, and it can be an amazing site.

Yeah, we use to have great runs here in RI until the GD Russian factory ships showed up and sucked them all up. Now you are luck if you get 5 or 6 working a run for 3 hours.

you could walk on them at times in a few spots I know of on the south shore. Obviously a ban can't hurt the fishes stock, but I hope there are no loopholes where trawlers can legally target the same fish. Only banning we land lubbers from getting our keep aint fair.

They'll be F&$##@N jerks taking them from unpatroled area and be fishing them in undisclosed locations, of this I am sure. What are the fines going to be for illegal posession, have they changed (I thought it was a flat $50 fine)

2004 over 5000 went thru the fish ladder in Lawrence
2005 less than 500 went thru.
IMO there is something wrong

[QUOTE=thefishingfreak]ok,, not wanting to start a flame war here. :smokin:
but anyone else think this total herring ban is gunna work?

lemmie just say a few things first.
there's no herring down south,, the cape,, etc.. right?
up north there's thousands.
QUOTE]

I don't know where you are getting your information from. I live mid-cape. All of our runs have some fish, but nowhere near what it was a few years ago

Connecticut has closed their runs and, I hear RI is looking to do the same. I just read where NH is in the process of closing theirs' too. Southern Maine rivers have very few fish.

As for enforcement, once a few get caught and fined and word gets out, it should deter the others. Here on the cape, various saltwater clubs have/are adopting runs and will help restore them and patrol them. In my area, the Cape Cod Salties are involved with mid-cape runs.

[QUOTE=thefishingfreak]ok,, not wanting to start a flame war here. :smokin:
but anyone else think this total herring ban is gunna work?

lemmie just say a few things first.
there's no herring down south,, the cape,, etc.. right?
up north there's thousands.
QUOTE]

I don't know where you are getting your information from. I live mid-cape. All of our runs have some fish, but nowhere near what it was a few years ago

Connecticut has closed their runs and, I hear RI is looking to do the same. I just read where NH is in the process of closing theirs' too. Southern Maine rivers have very few fish.

As for enforcement, once a few get caught and fined and word gets out, it should deter the others. Here on the cape, various saltwater clubs have/are adopting runs and will help restore them and patrol them. In my area, the Cape Cod Salties are involved with mid-cape runs.


that was hypathetcal...
i'm saying the main reason for the total ban was "very few" fish down south,, cape,,, etc...
right?

i get my info fom here:eyes: ,,, myself...
like i said... i'm there all the time,and at more than four runs,, and i never seen anyone counting fish or anyone who could care less but me and fellow fishermen..
that river in lawrence has more herring than one can imagine. but no-ones counting at the right time..trust me there's thousands there too..
my bud gill nets them in NH rivers...lots of them.... legaly.. same thing.. no-ones there to care......

I asked this question myself and what I found out is there is a counter at the runs not a person but an optical one that gets the number. I went to 4 runs myself last year I did not take 1 fish just not my type of fishing. and I was white the opposit than you a complete lack of fish in any quantity.

Who is regulating these Russian ships in our waters taking our fish?

The runs on the south shore were pretty barren this past spring Mike....Weymouth was horrible, Middleboro was also bad and they are usually so thick in Middleboro you can walk across them for weeks! The Bournedale herring run was terrible.......something has to give Mike and its gotta start somewhere! Seems like you are only thinking of yourself Mike....(don't take that the wrong way)....but in order to improve things all around, everyone has got to co-operate and maybe even suffer a little. My opinion however Mike is that its not the use of the herring by recreational sector that has depleted the stocks.....it is all the damage done by the commercial sector.....like it or not....my opinion is that the commercial sector does most of the damage to any fish stock due to overfishing, pure negligence, gluttony, greed and downright stupidity! So they penalize all for the acts of many! I do not fish live herring...never have so I don't really care one way or the other! Learn to fish those plugs you are making Mike....or build some that are good herring imitators.:huh:

Those Russian ships are supplied by local fisherman.The Russians don't actually do any fishing they just buy and process.The Russians are invited here by the US government.The locals catching the herring are also sibsidized by the government.

The contribution of just one person will have a impact on the herring population.
Females usually reach 100% maturity by age 5 and produce from 60,000 - 103,000 eggs.
If 300 of 600 herring of fishfreaks take are females that is a large amount even with a 30% mortality.
We should be thankful that at least there is an effort to increase the population.

this is not a new problem.Connecticut's runs have been banned for 4 or 5 years now it's a problem that is speading north it seems.the scary part is ct runs have not improved at all since the bans.Something needs to be done about the manegment of the bait fish.

Tho I've never fished herring, I've noticed a huge drop in populations over the years at runs that I've visited since mu childhood. We used to trap chubs and eels at these places and the herring were a nuisance in the 60's. Now only a few chubs are left...The herring need a break.

Regional closings or closing specific runs woudn't work because people would drive to the nearest one that is open. As it is, unless they close the runs in RI a bunch of MA guys will be driving down there and putting even more pressure on them. The main problems I see with the ban (and I do not have a ton of info on it) is that it does not seem to address the primary problem which is commercial fishing outside of US waters and that it'll just shift pressure to other bait fish that are already on the decline, such as mackerel and menhaden, as a bait source.

Personally... I don't think the majority of us have enough scientific evidence to fight this battle. It doesn't matter if you see thousands of herring, there is a problem on a much larger scale and if you want to see your ***** runs wiped out.... leave them open while all the others are closed :sick:. I saw a drop in herring the last few years, but I'll leave the regulations up to the guys whos job it is to make these decisions, they only stand to benefit US in the end.

-Dave

Regional closings or closing specific runs woudn't work because people would drive to the nearest one that is open. As it is, unless they close the runs in RI a bunch of MA guys will be driving down there and putting even more pressure on them. The main problems I see with the ban (and I do not have a ton of info on it) is that it does not seem to address the primary problem which is commercial fishing outside of US waters and that it'll just shift pressure to other bait fish that are already on the decline, such as mackerel and menhaden, as a bait source.

They're going to be seriously disappointed when they get here. Some runs are almost gone. There's only one that I know about that looks extremely healthy. Not sure if it's just a coincidence or not, but nobody really knows about it.

Anyone here know for sure if herring return to the exact same river they were born? I've had biologists tell me yes and no, so I'm not sure what to think. Almost all articles you read about herring say they return to native waters, but sometimes I think the authors just throw that in there assuming they're like salmon.

It takes 4 years for this years' spawn to mature and return to the rivers to make new spawn. For this reason, I say it will take a minimum of 6 years before any improvements are seen.

i'm not just thinking about myself here. don't matter,
i could pound sand for the next three years. whats off limits is off limits..
however i think that just shutting everything down and waiting to see what happens is not the way to go.

you want herring down there?
i know a place there will be tons of big fat pregnant females. come the full moon in may.
we try not to take the big fat females. we try to help them up river.
seems they come in first to lay the eggs,, then we'll see the carp come in like hoovers to suck up the eggs. and then the males will come in to fertilize them..
this is just a guess? based on what i see day to day. hour to hour.

i'm no herring expert but like i said,, i use them.
so tracking whear they are,, what there doing at the runs is high on my list. as whell as other guys i know.

if they do come back to the same river to spawn? i would think transporting pre-spawn fish to a certain area could only help.

Maybe someone should do something about the non-native Carp that are s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g the eggs like Hoovers.

I hate chasing the herrin and paying for the permits!! I have not used them for 3 years now.
I use live scup now, but they were almost as hard to get last summer??

Interesting post.

I have to admit I understand little about where anadromous herring (as opposed to Atlantic herring) spend their time when they're not in rivers--way offshore, nearshore, along shore. NMFS has repeatly noted there's very little interaction between the mid-water trawlers that target Atlantic herring, and bluebacks or alewives. Then again, observer coverage in the form of qualified fish biologists who can differentiate between Atlantics and bluebacks has been very small percentagewise. It could well be that big numbers of river herring are being sucked up in that fishery.

Then again, it could be the resurgence of our beloved striped bass or not-so-beloved dogfish, at the same time many other historic food sources that diverted attention away from river herring (i.e. mackerel, pogies, etc.) that is putting unbelievable pressure on the bluebacks and alewives. Could be more holdover bass waiting in the river systems, could be pollution, could be upstream obstructions.

Complicated problem. I think increased observer coverage on the mid-water boats would be a good starting point to eliminate or confirm that possibility.

Curious to see what others think.

I think the ban should include rhode island as well. We're now trapped between two states where possession is illegal. We're gonna get squeezed even worse... :(

I think the ban should include rhode island as well. We're now trapped between two states where possession is illegal. We're gonna get squeezed even worse... :(


YEp..:(

I hate chasing the herrin and paying for the permits!! I have not used them for 3 years now.
I use live scup now, but they were almost as hard to get last summer??
Not to mention that they shut down the rec scup, so if you didn't have a comm permit you couldn't even have ONE on board.

Mike,
I think that you will be going through the DTs from herring withdrawl come early june !!!

Problem...............now what do I do with all the frozen herring that's in my freezer???????????????????????

feed it to the cat :fishslap:

Not to mention that they shut down the rec scup, so if you didn't have a comm permit you couldn't even have ONE on board.

I'm not sure what State Googanville is in, but where did they shut down the rec scup fishery?

I think the herring ban can only help. I just hope that they dont go right back to the old ways next year.

Clearing something up. The russian ships stay away a few miles, its our guys netting/selling to them as I understand it :uhuh:

Lets just all take up golf, I'll set up the t time, we can still wear our waders, and korkers, that'd be nuts, knocking balls outta the water traps with waders on... whaddya say?

Clearing something up. The russian ships stay away a few miles, its our guys netting/selling to them as I understand it

Just to make it really clear, the Russina ships stay tied to the dock. They used to dock in Jamestown, but I think they moved somewhere else last year.

I'm in Massachusetts. The rec scup fishery was shut down around the end of August and the comm limit was first doubled, then more than tripled.

Ahhh, did they shorten your season due to an "overage"?

Last year the States of NY,CT,MA & RI were allowed to choose a 4 month scup season starting either May 1st or beginning July 1st . MA opted to start on May 1, RI & NY opted to start on July 1.

I think we had the late season in CT. I don't remember too well, but I think we started July 1 and went into October.

1st, the Russian ship was not allowed to fish, only to purchase from our (US) fisherman, so stop right there. 2nd, there are river herring, and sea herring, and both are in huge trouble, no matter what someones eyes might tell them. There are trawlers all over the New England waters, all year round, netting the sea herring by the thousands of pounds, and they dock in local piers, and sell their catch to the highest bidder, just like every other fishery known to American man so to speak. The bulk of herring caught are not used as bait, except in chum and oil as they are a delicate fish and lots of "chuff" by-product comes from the procccesing plants to provide plenty for this purpose. Herring does not freeze all that well, thats why you don't see it in flats like many other bait sized fish are. As to its live bait effectiveness, I don't think anyone will argue that it is a killer bait, but let's explore the ability of the common man to keep herring around, live and kicking, for a cost as well as time effective bait.
The way I see it, it is too difficult to keep more than a few alive unless you have a car large enough and in an area where it will get enough tidal flow to keep them alive, as well as protected to keep critters or fellow man out of them. Not to mention the constant vigil for dead fish, as one will quickly lead to many dead. Enough about my opinions as to its merit as a bait, and back to the basic issue, which is should there be a closing of all runs. Absolutely is the answer. You've had your 5 or 10 year study in the counting of these fish that so many members here seem to deem necessary, not with a man with a clicker, but by optical counters installed in many prominent runs on the eastern seaboard. The numbers are so drastically and dramatically down from their historic past that I find it difficult to believe any well informed person would declare that because there are thousands in an isolated area that the stocks are fine, never mind many other tell tale signs which obviously point to a severly depleted stock.
These river herring in question return every spring to the same general areas off the coast, and then the ancient call to spawn draws them into the river and stream systems of our watershed, but as to whether it is the exact river or stream, no definitive answer is agreed upon by those that study them. However, as witnessed everywhere, fish attempt to get into streams and rivers, long ago closed off by dams or spillways. Take Newport, RI as a prime example. Every so often, herring show directly off 1st beach, and even a few make it into the moat to die. These fish could not have been born in the big pond, as the spawn cycle is roughly a 4-5 year time frame from fry stage. Other rivers reopened after many years to the sea supported herring runs in subsequent years.
This was along time ago though, as the thousands have now turned into hundreds or none at all at even the most prolific herring runs of old. From NY north through the Cape and beyond, the last 4 years have been a severe and steady decline in returning numbers. No returning fish means no new fry in the ponds. That means in 4 years time, poof, gone, bye bye. An immediate shutdown is necessary to determine if the current 1, 2 and 3 year old fry can turn around the depletion that this year(4th) will have produced. Any available adults left to spawn in the next 2-4 years should be allowed to do so without interference from man, as the ospreys, stripers, and other natural predators will pick off quite a few without our help. Can you honestly tell me that a closure would really put that much of a hurt on the recreational fisherman?
Don't think a fishery could crash that quickly? Ask your local Atlantic Salmon what he thinks. Very similar life cycles..........

Oh, yeah, and Makomike, to REALLY clear things up, they remain on anchor, in the bay. They made them switch from East to West Passage of Narry Bay, but always at anchor, never at dock.

Squidler.. i couldnt agree more :kewl:

i havent seen that Russian boat in a year or 2...:huh:

U guys make nice martyrs.
Guys have been taking Herring for bait about as long as i been alive.
A rec.herring fishery closer is useless with out a concurrent closer by the comm.s
Another case where the recreational fisherman has to tke the hit because a fishery is being overrun by greedy goverment subsidized commercial fishin fleets.Who basically have no regaurds but the almighty dollar.They have been doin it for yrs.There's a long list of usta be species.Its all about maximum yeild.Good luck tryin to change anything as they are major contributors to a goverment run by greed.Just say goodby an get used to it.
Now I expect some friend of a commercial fisherman will say I don't know what i'm talkin bout or its the seals or somethin.Or I am insensitive to the plight of the romantic art of the fisherman.Ya i cried watchin the perfect storm.Take a look at how successful the commercial ban on netting mullet has been for the state of florida.
The goverment simply stopped dumping money into a tired old american industry an bought em out.Florida went from a dead see to a fishermans dream.I really don't know why we can't do the same.A farmraised fish talapia is quickly becoming one of the worlds favorite.More should be done in this type of fishin or we will soon have nothing left.

Remember those 3 mile slicks behind the boat out the bay when it was in East Passage? The seals used to pile up on citing rock off Rose Island. Haven't seen them that thick since it left.

Those trawlers are the pariahs of the oceans though.Wish they would make the entire commercial fishery go back to hand gear and vessels under 65 feet. There are enough farm raised fish out there to supply the world's fish needs. With Tilapia now available, which is a 98% vegetarian(that means no fish are killed to feed these fish, unlike other fisheries which kill roughly 3-4 fish to raise 1 adult food fish)
fish, they could use them for fish meal and oil to rear the other more desirable fish. Hell, the Japanese are now farming Mahi-Mahi and pen rearing Bluefin tuna quite successfully, along with zillions of shellfish and shrimp.
A hand gear only i.e rod and reel, hand line, or harpoon only, no nets over 10 feet in diameter, no pots over 5 on trawls, etc. fishery could support many a bayman again and supply the local markets with fresh fish as well as domestic and international trade with gourmet and high end restaraunts. The price would remain at a premium, facilitating a healthier marine economy as well as pay base for the fisherman and their families. It would also create a safer commercial fishery, enabling the entire fleet to fish closer to home and under better weather by relieving the incredible pressure that large scale commercial operations place on the environment. Not to mention our by kill of many fish discarded when non discriminatory practices are prevalent.
If we really want to change for the better, IMHO thats the only way to go. Don't threaten to cut them off entirely, only force them to micro size and change their ways......

Were you lookin over my shoulder NIB??? :hihi: seriously though, my point above about closing the harvest in the streams is simply to allow the few remaining out there to SPAWN, They cant do it if they cant get back to the stream. Of course commercial fishing needs to be addressed, and soon, but irresponsible taking of a not so important baitfish by recreational fisherman is just plain stupid. There are too many alternative baits both natural and man made that work wonders on the game fish we seek. Do you think it is co-incidence that so many "great" fisherman continually put massive fish on the beach or boat with artificials??? There are so many effective baits out there that it should be easy to switch. Adaptation is the key to mans ingenuity, and most great fisherman adapt.
Our biggest problem as humans in regards to the environment is that we feel the fate of the earth, along with its "other" inhabitants is different from that of ours as humans. It' s not. By helping troubled species all along the food chain when we can, we better help our fate, period.

Shutting down the runs is the only resp[onsible thing to do. Go buy some nice pearl colored slug gos in 9 inch, some storm shads in same size plus 6 inch, a few needlefish plugs, and some nice Pt. Jude tins and eel imitators, and youve done your part to relieve the pressure on 3 different troubled bait species; herring, bunker, and eels. Youve also pumped money into the local retail economy, have caught a few nice fish if your using said lures properly in th eright conditions, and you can look and the mirror and ignore the ugly face you see cuz you dun your good deed for the day, samaritan.:buds:

Hey I'm a responsible sporstman.I agree wit shutting it down if i thought it might do something.It's really not gonna make a difference. lets see em(comms) make the the same sacrifices for the fishery.

Just because they wont do their part, doesnt mean we cant do ours. If 50k go in the Bournedale run again, and spawn, then 4 years from now there will be spawning age adults from that same Bournedale run or whatever run you insert. By protecting the spawn, you protect the current stock with same commercial pressures. its basic math. The protection of spawns in all species can result in increasing the populations of these animals. The same problem is happening in reverse with eels. The adults go BACK to sea to spawn, yet we harvest them prior to that in freshwater before they can spawn. We harvest the herring before they make it to their freshwater to do the same. Notice a trend?

I disagree that you not taking your 600 or so will make an impact. Look what they did with just 2 mating pairs of ospreys in the Westport river system. Just 2 mating pairs and 12-15 years later over 500 mating pairs along the surrounding river and bay systems.

If we shut down the runs, we allow the healthy, strong, hoprny fish to get in the pond and have at it layin eggs and shootin milt. 600 here, 6000 there adds up, all about the math.....

:lurk: till morning :buds:

U guys make nice martyrs.
Guys have been taking Herring for bait about as long as i been alive.
A rec.herring fishery closer is useless with out a concurrent closer by the comm.s
Another case where the recreational fisherman has to tke the hit because a fishery is being overrun by greedy goverment subsidized commercial fishin fleets.Who basically have no regaurds but the almighty dollar.They have been doin it for yrs.There's a long list of usta be species.Its all about maximum yeild.Good luck tryin to change anything as they are major contributors to a goverment run by greed.Just say goodby an get used to it.
Now I expect some friend of a commercial fisherman will say I don't know what i'm talkin bout or its the seals or somethin.Or I am insensitive to the plight of the romantic art of the fisherman.Ya i cried watchin the perfect storm.Take a look at how successful the commercial ban on netting mullet has been for the state of florida.
The goverment simply stopped dumping money into a tired old american industry an bought em out.Florida went from a dead see to a fishermans dream.I really don't know why we can't do the same.A farmraised fish talapia is quickly becoming one of the worlds favorite.More should be done in this type of fishin or we will soon have nothing left.

AFAIK there is no commercial fishery for blueback herring.

[QUOTE=squiddler] There are trawlers all over the New England waters, all year round, netting the sea herring by the thousands of pounds, and they dock in local piers, and sell their catch to the highest bidder, just like every other fishery known to American man so to speak. The bulk of herring caught are not used as bait, except in chum and oil as they are a delicate fish and lots of "chuff" by-product comes from the procccesing plants to provide plenty for this purpose. Herring does not freeze all that well, thats why you don't see it in flats like many other bait sized fish are. QUOTE]

When I fished out of Montauk we used to buy frozen flats of sea herring for bait all the time.

Pen raising saltwater fish has its own problems.As has already been shown with farm raising salmon these fish by virtue of being raised in pens are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts.

These fish have been known to escape in enough numbers and interbreed with wild populations and introduce their infererior genentics into the general population.This can cause a host of problems mainly which is the newborn fish are prone to disease.

Don't get me wrong farm raising fish is a good thing but its techniques need to be vastly improved.

Obviously fish farm raised soley in self contained freshwater ponds don't apply.

A hand gear only i.e rod and reel, hand line, or harpoon only, no nets over 10 feet in diameter, no pots over 5 on trawls, etc. fishery could support many a bayman again and supply the local markets with fresh fish as well as domestic and international trade with gourmet and high end restaraunts..... Don't threaten to cut them off entirely, only force them to micro size and change their ways......
You can't change a pickel back into a cucumber. The fish wholesale industry has aggressively marketed over the last 10-20 years to establish new domestic and foreign markets. A quaint, smallboat, "bayman" type fishery would never be able to supply today's demand. Since demand would far outstrip supply, prices would skyrocket. Maybe the doulbled, tripled, or even quadrupled prices would be enough to convince the dealers, proccessors, and wholesalers that they'll still be able to maintain thier very comfortable lifestyles despite a downsized fishery.
Many nations place little or no restrictions on thier fishing fleets, despite heavy international pressure to do so. Unilateral action by 1 or 2 countries will never be effective.
Unfortunately there is no easy answer. Days-at sea regulations only show limited success. Boat buy-back programs have been uneven at best and a ludicrous waste of taxpayer dollars at worse (case in point: US gave subsidized loans to boat owners in the 70's to build more, bigger, more powerfull scallop boats, then offered to buy them back in the late eighties/early ninties to reduce fishing pressure).
Round & round we go... where it stops....

:hs:

Pen raising saltwater fish has its own problems.As has already been shown with farm raising salmon these fish by virtue of being raised in pens are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts.

These fish have been known to escape in enough numbers and interbreed with wild populations and introduce their infererior genentics into the general population.This can cause a host of problems mainly which is the newborn fish are prone to disease.

Don't get me wrong farm raising fish is a good thing but its techniques need to be vastly improved.

Obviously fish farm raised soley in self contained freshwater ponds don't apply.

Pen raised fish are genetically identical to their wild counterparts, because they are taken from wild stocks, corralled into floating pens, and fed at a super rate to yield large fish quickly. That is why you do not see crazy prices like you used to for Bluefin tuna, as the Japanese(who drive the main demand anyway) can control the market much better. You just don't see single fish fetching those 20,000 plus price tags anymore.

Farm raised fish do have their basic problems, but the Chinese have been farming fish successfully for over 2000 years. They can rear 4 different types of freshwater fish in the same pond, all benefitting each other and the environment.

In regards to Salmon farming, it is an industry that needs major improvement, I will agree. These fish are often times raised solely in fresh water farms like you mentioned, but they can and do escape even these, breeding with native stocks etc. and also polluting the hell out of the surrounding lands.
Yet shellfish farms and pen reared fish do not have these problems you mentioned above, as they use natural stocks and tidal areas to keep the water clean and healthy.

AFAIK there is no commercial fishery for blueback herring.

What is AFAIK ?

Is there a commercial fishery for ATLANTIC SEA HERRING?
I guess what ur tell me its the rec.fisherman takin to many.not the bycatch._Please.Where are the American Shad.They all swim the same basic waters.net em up put em in a can they all taste the same pickled.

Remember those 3 mile slicks behind the boat out the bay when it was in East Passage? The seals used to pile up on citing rock off Rose Island. Haven't seen them that thick since it left.



saw them there a few days ago.

Clearing something up. The russian ships stay away a few miles, its our guys netting/selling to them as I understand it :uhuh:

Lets just all take up golf, I'll set up the t time, we can still wear our waders, and korkers, that'd be nuts, knocking balls outta the water traps with waders on... whaddya say?
golf cant even be compared to fishing or hunting,golf is boring!!!

i think its a mix of non U.S. and U.S. comercial fishing and river herring mixing with sea herring and also alot of poaching at night at the herring runs. my grandfather tells me how the russian trawlers would come in and it seemed like they would scoop up everything in the god damn ocean,my grampa hates those bastards and people that hurt the ecosystem.my grandfather would watch the herrings runs like a hawk back in the day and report them or take matters into his own hands

everyday the bucket goes to the well

one day the bottoms gonna drop out

What is AFAIK ?

Is there a commercial fishery for ATLANTIC SEA HERRING?
I guess what ur tell me its the rec.fisherman takin to many.not the bycatch._Please.Where are the American Shad.They all swim the same basic waters.net em up put em in a can they all taste the same pickled.

AFAIK=As far as I know.

Yes there is a commercial fishery for both sea herring and shad. NMFS says that by catch of river herring in the sea herring fishery is minimal. By catch of river herring in the shad fishey could be a problem, but I think the commercial shad fishery in New England is mostly gone now.

AFAIK=As far as I know.

Yes there is a commercial fishery for both sea herring and shad. NMFS says that by catch of river herring in the sea herring fishery is minimal. By catch of river herring in the shad fishey could be a problem, but I think the commercial shad fishery in New England is mostly gone now.

FWIW, I lived on the Palmer River in Rehoboth most of my life, walking distance to the herring run and shad fishing areas. I moved South to Newport this year, but prior to that I've always had a REAL good sense of both the shad run and the herring runs on the river both because I fished it constantly and because I was a herring officer for the town for several years. So since I'm 28, we'll say I have a good 18 years or so of unscientific data in my head. The Palmer supports, as far as I know, the only American shad run in Narragansett Bay. IMO the size and quantity of those fish is as good as it ever was, maybe better. Yet the herring (both bluebacks and alewifes) are almost gone. You can stare at the ladder and the waterfall for hours and see nothing.

Not sure what the point of this is or what it indicates if anything, but it certainly supports the idea that there is little to no American Shad fishery if it is clearly healthy, at least in that river. If the shad were falling victim to the same sort of commercial fishing the herring are, I would be very aware of it.

The Shad run on the Merrimack, which was second in size only to Connecticut only 10 years ago has been going down hill steadily since then and is a matter of serious concern to MDMF

The classic Shad run on the Delaware is nothing like it used to be.

At least the Vanderhoops on the Vineyard will have herring. Tribal spawning areas like menemsha do not fall under the ban. They'll be going off island every day business as usual selling to all the shops.

At least the Vanderhoops on the Vineyard will have herring. Tribal spawning areas like menemsha do not fall under the ban. They'll be going off island every day business as usual selling to all the shops.

According to the original posting: "At a November 9, 2005business meeting, the Marine Fisheries Advisory Commission (MFAC) approved several Division of Marine Fisheries (MarineFisheries) proposals including a two-year seasonal cod prohibition in a portion of Massachusetts Bay and a three-year moratorium on the harvest, possession, and sale of river herring."

If that wording is correct, the indians won't have any shops to sell to.

AFAIK=As far as I know.

Yes there is a commercial fishery for both sea herring and shad. NMFS says that by catch of river herring in the sea herring fishery is minimal. By catch of river herring in the shad fishey could be a problem, but I think the commercial shad fishery in New England is mostly gone now.

Thats what they say, but they don't have the science to prove it. They only have observers on 2-3% of the vessels. That is not a respresentative sample. You couldn't go down to the ramp, ask 2-3 out of 100 fishermen what they caught and then multiply their catch rate by the other 97 fishermen. The NMFS admits that they need more observers, and they asked for a pile of money to do it last year. I don't know if they got the funding. I am guessing its a low priority.

According to the original posting: "At a November 9, 2005business meeting, the Marine Fisheries Advisory Commission (MFAC) approved several Division of Marine Fisheries (MarineFisheries) proposals including a two-year seasonal cod prohibition in a portion of Massachusetts Bay and a three-year moratorium on the harvest, possession, and sale of river herring."

If that wording is correct, the indians won't have any shops to sell to.
Exactly.
There have been several herring management/ban threads posted over the last couple of months, and in every one, someone mentions that people from a state with a ban will take herring in a state that doesn't have one, or mentions the Native American Indian exemption issue. What sometimes seems to be missed is the fact that even if a person obtains herring legally in one state, it would still be illegal to possess that fish in a state With a ban. I think one problem is that poachers, by thier very nature, ignore/violate bans, laws, rules, and regs, and are willing to do things like take herring illegally, or possess short scup in the livewell. I will certainly obey any and all such regs, first, because I don't want to face the consequences, but also because it should improve the resource down the road.

Thats what they say, but they don't have the science to prove it. They only have observers on 2-3% of the vessels. That is not a respresentative sample. You couldn't go down to the ramp, ask 2-3 out of 100 fishermen what they caught and then multiply their catch rate by the other 97 fishermen. The NMFS admits that they need more observers, and they asked for a pile of money to do it last year. I don't know if they got the funding. I am guessing its a low priority.

2-3% can be a statistically valid sample, what percentage of the voting public do you think those presidential polls use? A small sample increases the margin for error (standard deviation) but even with a 2-3% sampling rate, all else being equal (i.e. times of year, fishing areas, etc) their current statistics do indicate little bycatch in the sea herring fishery. I'm not saying that figures are gospel, but even if they were double, it would indicate little bycatch in the sea herring fishery.

First it was menhaden, now herring & eels . . . .

Last summer I successfully livelined white perch I caught in a local pond. Thank god soft plastics can't be overfished!

I was wondering about bluegills.......:cool:

Seems to me if the fish are there, the BG's won't have to be in the water that long before they are inhaled there fore hardiness should'nt be a problem.

It would be interesting to see which are hardier. It would stand to reason white perch w/b because they are andromonous. I am sure white perch are also natural prey for migrating stripers at times. Their shape and color more closely resemble herring, pogies, scup or shad.

I clipped the dorsal on mine; not that a decent bass would have any trouble inhaling it. I would assume chunking these would also prove effective and easy on the wallet.

If you have ever tasted WP caught fresh you might not waste them on an inferior tasting fish such as striped bass. I tend to shy away from fresh water fish no matter where they are taken.

As with any larger bait, you would need a good high capacity bait well with aeration. Culling these panfish generally improves our fresh water fisheries as well.

Leave those herring alone for a few years!!!

I just moved closer to scituate herring brook -- thats right "HERRING" brook. There is even a fish ladder leading into the reservoir.

I have never seen fish go over it.
I have checked at all times of day over tha last years.
I have seen a handful of herring pulled out of the river/brook by birds and I even cought one on a two springs ago.

I would like to clean it out and rejuvinate it.
any suggestions for first steps?

Mike, you might want to contact these folks http://www.nsrwa.org/programs/third_herring_brook.asp

And contact Ma DMF here http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dmf/programsandprojects/anadrom.htm#anadromous

well if they are closing off the runs, they should tell the russians in Gloucester harbor to take a hike and let all of them replenish. I just hate when its one thing for someone and something else for another.

my .02 is that there are some shortages. Behind my parents house there is a run and last year I only saw maybe a dozen fish. When I was a kid, thousands.........

If I did this right these are some of the many boats raping the herring and macks from ower sea.

More of the same

I've got an idea,,, lets all just give up fishing for bass and take up sewing or knitting hehehehe,,, just kidding,,, either way,us fishermen are screwed,,, the fish stocks are declining no matter what we do about it! it sucks!