What time is the %$%$%$%$in eel meeting tonight?

I am going................

6pm at Corliss Auditorium. I'll be there.

DZ

Same;
Should be there

Are you guys fighting for conservation or for the right to continue using them as bait? Be careful what you wish for.....:pop:

I'll be there as a concerned fisherman, who wants to see the eel population healthy, but also wants to make sure that we dont lose a prime bait w/o due cause

I think Bryan is really concerned that if there are no more eels, more attention will be brought upon his plugs :hee:

Will we have to start calling #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& "stick-bait"?

Sorry, I really have nothing of value to add :cputin:

-spence

Sorry, I really have nothing of value to add :cputin:

-spence

There's a surprise :wiggle: :laughs: :hihi:

Bryan,

I do agree... hell I ONLY fish eels... but, what needs to be done needs to be done. I just ask because we don't need people with the wrong attitude in there it will only compound the problem. Be good Bill "Band" :hihi:

SO whats it looking like?

My sense (DZ, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Fisheye might have a different opinion) is that nothing will happen THIS season. I think it is clear to ASMFC that the public comments favor a closure/ban on the elver/glass eel fishery, since obviously alot more eels are killed per pound and at a vital life stage.

The way the timelines work, UNLESS they go with a USFW Endangered route or take emergency action, it will be a year before any formal action is taken by ASMFC. I think we have eels for now, BUT if it comes out to ban the glass eel fishery, please support that. Also if it comes up, several people wanted to look at the amounts of eels exported vs kept in the US.
It was also commented that when compared to the glass eel fishery the recreational and bait take may and probably is much smaller

FYI for an idea of what goes on see
http://northeasteelcompany.homestead.com/eelpage.html
Based on their numbers, if they harvesy 500kg of glass eels, then thats approx 2.5 MILLION baby eels.




And Spence: Bite me you overgrown cornhusker :D... my plugs catch fish.... as do my eels.. something you witnessed a night in Oct where I think you got the skunk.. hmm

My sense (DZ, #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Fisheye might have a different opinion) is that nothing will happen THIS season. I think it is clear to ASMFC that the public comments favor a closure/ban on the elver/glass eel fishery, since obviously alot more eels are killed per pound and at a vital life stage.

The way the timelines work, UNLESS they go with a USFW Endangered route or take emergency action, it will be a year before any formal action is taken by ASMFC. I think we have eels for now, BUT if it comes out to ban the glass eel fishery, please support that. Also if it comes up, several people wanted to look at the amounts of eels exported vs kept in the US.
It was also commented that when compared to the glass eel fishery the recreational and bait take may and probably is much smaller

FYI for an idea of what goes on see
http://northeasteelcompany.homestead.com/eelpage.html
Based on their numbers, if they harvesy 500kg of glass eels, then thats approx 2.5 MILLION baby eels.




And Spence: Bite me you overgrown cornhusker :D... my plugs catch fish.... as do my eels.. something you witnessed a night in Oct where I think you got the skunk.. hmm

I agree, I left there feeling good. Looks like there may be a ban on the glass eel fishery, tighter regulation as to "reporting catch" which was aimed at the harvesters and vendors themselves. I didnt leave there feeling that they are going onto the endagered species list.

Hanging around and BSing with the guy , his gut feeling was no endagered species,He mentioned to me that they never did that with Sturgeon and that fish was in much worse shape than the american eel !

I also want to see whats right but, it seems to me and it was pointed out last night numerous times, That the export of eels for food is about 95% versus the bait sector which only accounts for 3 to 5 % of the total numbers.

Bottom line? I see no loss of eels this year and tighter restrictions on them in the future but, my gut tells me eel fisherman will be bangin bass for the foreseeable future.........

He also pointed out that this would not affect "farm raised eels". I think those that are panicking can relax some. They still need to collect tons of data and thats going to take time.

He also pointed out that this would not affect "farm raised eels".
I'm confused. Since we know that fish farmers have as yet been unable to get the American eel to reproduce in captivity, where will eels farms get thier stock for raising?

Yes, eel farms use elvers and raise them

I agree.

I asked about a timeline and was told that if the petition to place the eel on the endangered species list succeeds: 4-6 months. There will be another US F&W meeting on that petition early this year.

Any new addendum to the Federal Management Plan will take 12-18 months UNLESS there is an Emergency Action to the plan which would have an almost immediate effect.

Also found out that an alternative eel bait market will be available this season: lamprey ;)







Almost forgot:
One good thing for those who showed up at this hearing is that ASMFC keeps a list of who attends – when you sign the attendance sheet you’re eligible for a special permit which will allow you to use eels as bait even if they become endangered. That means that #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Rockhound, and I along with a few others are safe. I'm glad I attended. You guys should have come to this meeting. ;)

DZ

Maine is a problem. My neighbor, LT. Bob Chaucey, MA. EPO, has benn arresting Mainers' who come each year to the upper cape and set nets in the runs ( they run the same rivers as herring) and caught many of these guys doing overnight surveilance. He had a couple guys a few years back who were renting a cottage in Falmouth and had the tanks in the cottage so no one could see them. They had a large quantity of elvers.

The sportfishing guys in Maine are so radical about Striper protection and such why is there no one up there concerned about this?

If the American eel goes on the Protected Species list I and you all will probably never be able to use one again in our lifetimes.

No harvesting of herring ( which is way overdue and fine with me and I figure will be more like 6 to 7 years. But the eels will be hard to get back off the list once on, if ever they get off.

Flap,
One of the two people who petitioned for adding eel to endangered species is from Maine - the other from Mass.
They've done their homework. More info on this website:

http://www.glooskapandthefrog.org/ESA%20petition.htm

Also check out US F&W website about the study.

DZ

Flap,
One of the two people who petitioned for adding eel to endangered species is from Maine - the other from Mass.
They've done their homework. More info on this website:

http://www.glooskapandthefrog.org/ESA%20petition.htm

Also check out US F&W website about the study.

DZ

Definatly PETA Opratives:uhuh:

Definatly PETA Opratives:uhuh:
and site members
See this thread http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=28279&highlight=eels

As I said last night at the meeting, under the WTO rules we cannot stop the export of eels unless they are given either endangered or threatened status. I don't like the glass eel fishery even a little, but, again as I said last night, when it takes 100,000 elvers to produce one spwan ready silver eel, its hard to argue against ltting them take some. I didn't understand the guys comment that eel farmers wouldn't be affected, they are the ones that buy the elvers, if there is no elver fishery there is no eel farming.

Mike; didnt know that was you...
Should've said hello.
I was sitting behind Dave Prebble and next to DZ

Definatly PETA Opratives:uhuh:
The Watts brothers are from my town and TimW is a member of this board.Good guys,although eel huggers.

Flap,
One of the two people who petitioned for adding eel to endangered species is from Maine - the other from Mass.
They've done their homework. More info on this website:

http://www.glooskapandthefrog.org/ESA%20petition.htm

Also check out US F&W website about the study.

DZ

Thanks for the info Dennis. Turning needles if you want one let me know. Flap:uhuh:

Man there would be awsome #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& flames with out eels
kinda like me with outa plug
good reading:lasso:

Man there would be awsome #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& flames with out eels
kinda like me with outa plug
good reading:lasso:

Nahhh theres more than one way to skin a cat ! Losing eels would be bad but There are many other ways to catch large....

Hey sea dangles, I still say there with PETA......eelhugers? weird..........

Hey #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, you ought not to pass judgement on a person without meeting or at least having a talk with them. Weather permitting, I will be codfishing out of Green Harbor a couple days a week for the rest of the winter. Drop me a line and come on down, we can talk it over while catching fish. Otherwise please give the PETA crap a rest.

Hey #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, you ought not to pass judgement on a person without meeting or at least having a talk with them. Weather permitting, I will be codfishing out of Green Harbor a couple days a week for the rest of the winter. Drop me a line and come on down, we can talk it over while catching fish. Otherwise please give the PETA crap a rest.


Sorry I dont fish for cod.....I am not passing judgement. I do however fish for stripers will live eels:D

Lighten up....

Hey Tim W,
Please give us some background on the petition - how and why you got it started. This caught many of us by surprise. Knowing why you're doing it will help us understand your motive.
Assuming you are one of the petition starters.

Thanks

DZ

I am acually glad your on this site, Maybe you can answer some questions to help us understand?

Why did you get involved in this in the first place?

Who told you guys there was a problem?

Who just out of the blue decides to fight for eels?

Who did all your research? Unless your marine biologists ( which you very well may be) What I read would be very difficult for the layman to write?

Did you have an experiance that made you want to take up this cause? where you guys former eel harvesters and saw the stocks decline?

If your this passionate about eels, why were you not at all the meetings? since your mass residents, why were you guys not at the rhode island one last night??

Have you guys researcherd the missisippi population which numbers in the millions? Since there is no hard past data? where does all of it come from?


You guys put it out there and some in the public are now going to want to know ! I am not judging you but I am just curious as to where point A was ?

Mike; didnt know that was you...
Should've said hello.
I was sitting behind Dave Prebble and next to DZ

I figured there were a couple of guys from this board there, but since I only know the Hooters crew by sight, I couldn't identify anyone. I was sitting right accross the aisle fom Dave. After the meeting I talked to Dave for a couple of minutes and then Zach Harvey and then I chatted with Mike Laptew for a while until everybody left.

DZ, My brother and I had both been involved with diadromous fishery and river restoration for quite a while before we filed the ESA eel petition. A few years back he began finding adult eels chopped up below hydro dams in Maine, we were both aware of the elver boom in the 90’s, and the problems the elvers had getting upstream past dams. The more research we did on the eel, the more convinced we were there were serious problems that were not being addressed.

In part, what spurred our petition was ASMFC decision to request an ESA review of the eel. Given the sometimes indecisive nature of the ASMFC, this indicated to us there was a serious problem with eel stocks. A problem that ASMFC felt was beyond their ability to control, or to figure out. It was also clear that the individual states did not have the resources or willingness to deal with the problem.

At the time we filed the petition we did not know whether or not the Federal Services would do the ESA status review requested by ASMFC. As it turned out the Services decided to do a stock status review around the same time we filed the petition, but the Services review would not be done under the ESA. We felt it was important to have the review done under ESA, because its requirements are very specific and must be followed by action if it is determined that the species is endangered or threatened. Otherwise they could have found that the eel was endangered or threatened, but there would be no mechanism to force anyone to take action.

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I am not an expert on eels, and don’t pretend to be one. My brother and I are “laymen”; we have hunted, fished and observed all our lives. We are not biologists; we researched and wrote the petition ourselves, on our own time. As for my passion and commitment to eels and the environment, I do the best I can with the time I have.

DZ, My brother and I had both been involved with diadromous fishery and river restoration for quite a while before we filed the ESA eel petition. A few years back he began finding adult eels chopped up below hydro dams in Maine, we were both aware of the elver boom in the 90’s, and the problems the elvers had getting upstream past dams. The more research we did on the eel, the more convinced we were there were serious problems that were not being addressed.

In part, what spurred our petition was ASMFC decision to request an ESA review of the eel. Given the sometimes indecisive nature of the ASMFC, this indicated to us there was a serious problem with eel stocks. A problem that ASMFC felt was beyond their ability to control, or to figure out. It was also clear that the individual states did not have the resources or willingness to deal with the problem.

At the time we filed the petition we did not know whether or not the Federal Services would do the ESA status review requested by ASMFC. As it turned out the Services decided to do a stock status review around the same time we filed the petition, but the Services review would not be done under the ESA. We felt it was important to have the review done under ESA, because its requirements are very specific and must be followed by action if it is determined that the species is endangered or threatened. Otherwise they could have found that the eel was endangered or threatened, but there would be no mechanism to force anyone to take action.

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, I am not an expert on eels, and don’t pretend to be one. My brother and I are “laymen”; we have hunted, fished and observed all our lives. We are not biologists; we researched and wrote the petition ourselves, on our own time. As for my passion and commitment to eels and the environment, I do the best I can with the time I have.

I am glad you explained it ,for that..Thank you! I appreciate you giving us some background as to why..Thanks !

Now that all this is out there, does anyone have advice on how we can stop the rampant exportation of eels overseas that are used for food...Does thsi no mean contacting senators etc..and get them involved on the WTO level? They stated last night that only 5% is used as bait the remaining 95% is shipped over seas as food fish.

Drop the Watts brothers in the middle of nowhere and they will flourish with just the shirts on their backs.And chew...

Starting to see the logic of the ESA argument--especially after hearing TimW's articulate breakdown. As much as I hate the idea of eels going away as a bait source, I got thinking about the situation on the ride home from the hearing. Any REAL effort to protect eels would have to cross a number of agency boundaries--dealing with hydroelectric licensing, export of glass and food eels, etc. I would have to disagree with a few other posts here. I doubt the stock assessment will paint a very nice picture, and that certainly will have a big impact of USF&W findings, as well as future Commission actions via addenda or amendments. Timeline would likely be 2007 if the USF&W defers to ASMFC, but I suspect the Commission will have to implement something with teeth, likely through possession restriction, in that scenario. Otherwise, I'd expect some major action from USF&W sooner than later.

ASMFC action seems like it will be futile--you're not going to solve stock collapse involving complicated environmental issues by simply banning possession or restricting fishing for eels.

If something is going to be done, I'd just as soon see something that will create REAL change.

Was good to see all in attendance, and I'm sure glad--as Dennis is--that I at least got to pick up my eel-possession exemption permit.

Zach Harvey

Does anyone know if it is possible for eels to be raised in captivity (farm raised) and then released back into the wild once mature to spawn. The reason I ask is that if the commercial fishery takes (and I’m using numbers from earlier in this post) 2.5 million elvers (which at the stated rate of 100,000 elvers to produce one spawn ready eel equates to only 250 adult eels), couldn’t something be worked out that they were required to release a percentage of those eels after they reach maturity to spawn. To me it seems that raising the eels in captivity and releasing them as an adult would greatly increase their chances of survival (based on the assumption that the majority of predation and mortality occurs in the juvenile life stages) and that if the numbers taken and percentages returned to the wind are figured out correctly, having a commercial eel farming industry could actually help eel populations if done responsibly. Keep in mind that its early in the morning and I’m just thinking out loud here with no research to back me up on this.

29,
I raised that exact same point while I was discussing the eel situation with a couple of members of the ASMFC's technical committe. They told me that's almost exactly what they do in europe with european eels. They harvest the glass eels and raise them in captivity and then, when they are adults they must release something like three adults for every 100,000 elvers they took in. OTOH - the european eel is also in trouble, maybe as much so as the American eel.

Starting to see the logic of the ESA argument--especially after hearing TimW's articulate breakdown. As much as I hate the idea of eels going away as a bait source, I got thinking about the situation on the ride home from the hearing. Any REAL effort to protect eels would have to cross a number of agency boundaries--dealing with hydroelectric licensing, export of glass and food eels, etc. I would have to disagree with a few other posts here. I doubt the stock assessment will paint a very nice picture, and that certainly will have a big impact of USF&W findings, as well as future Commission actions via addenda or amendments. Timeline would likely be 2007 if the USF&W defers to ASMFC, but I suspect the Commission will have to implement something with teeth, likely through possession restriction, in that scenario. Otherwise, I'd expect some major action from USF&W sooner than later.

ASMFC action seems like it will be futile--you're not going to solve stock collapse involving complicated environmental issues by simply banning possession or restricting fishing for eels.

If something is going to be done, I'd just as soon see something that will create REAL change.

Was good to see all in attendance, and I'm sure glad--as Dennis is--that I at least got to pick up my eel-possession exemption permit.

Zach Harvey

Howdy Zach, Just dont take Jims story idea away! Good to see you here......

It is what it is and I would not want to see eels wiped out so, I agree if something needs to be done, do it with some teeth!