Trying to make a 7 1/2" danny. Zoomed it up from a 6" Pinchney. Finally figured out a lip that I think will work on #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&'s site after doing some extrapolating of dimensions. Got the hook hole placement worked out. What I'm hoping is that someone can tell me what the original hook sizes are. I'm assuming there is some sort of belly weight. the 6" seems to typically have one centered in the belly. Was wondering if the bigger one is the same or if it might have two?

used to be when 4/0's were min.. sometimes 5/0.....reason being the hook would lay up against the belly so only one barb[arm] was hanging down..they wanted that barb large cause the fish they were catching were large,,maybe the thought on this has gotten lost in these days of new.

Here you go, this is a beachmaster danny which I think is identical.

Length 7 3/8
nose 1"
tail 13/16"
belly 1 1/2" (midway @ 3 5/8" from nose)
Weight 1/2" (probably also 1/2" deep) 3 5/16" from nose
front hook 1 3/8" from nose
back hook 4 3/4 " from nose
Hook size 4/0 (but they'll carry a 5/0)
lip (see picture) 1 1/32 wide at face, 9/32 from first bend to second, 1 1/4 wide at second bend, 3/4 " from second bend to tip, wire hole 1/4" down

Good luck

Thanks CS. I find that my hooks are getting bigger the more I get into this. I think somehow they also stablize the plug, especially when there's some current or wave action.

Numbskull. Thanks to you, too! Those dimensions are almot exactly what I had come up with by making the 6" Pinchney plug 1.25 times bigger to get the 7 1/2" dimension. The lip is a bit different. The lip I found mimics the square profile that is on the 6" Pinchey plug at
1 1/8" wide. The lip slot, the lip and the size of the lip between the two breaks were dead on. The lip in your picture looks more pikie like or lefty like in profile.

A 1/2" slug in the belly? That's a chunk of Lead!

It is also crimped up on the edges. I don't know if the original big Dannys were. I've had Beachmasters both ways, and the big Gibbs copy (which is underweighted) had a flat lip but swam fine. These big Dannys are wonderful night-time plugs. I suspect they've taken more big bass, at least along rocky coastlines, than any other plug made. If I had to choose just one plug to own, it would be a big yellow Danny.

A 1/2" slug in the belly? That's a chunk of Lead!

I'll try to xray one for you to see at the plugfest. When Beachmasters were hard to find, I would drill out the weight on a Gibbs and put in a 1/2" x 1/2" slug. You can pour em yourself if you drill out a piece of maple.

That would be awesome! I don't pour lead, so I'll have to come up with some other solution on that end of things.... Also know what color this first one is going to be :-) Can't wait to hammer Large from the Yak! I assume at night they were black?

What does the crimped edges of the lip do? I just did some big dannies and I didn't turn up the edges of the lips and they swim pretty good but with a bit more roll than I would have liked. Would the turned up edges help mellow the roll some? I guess I shouldn't have made my prototype a solid color.:rollem:

check out the atom thread about lips.


black
white
yellow
blue/silver

That would be awesome! I don't pour lead, so I'll have to come up with some other solution on that end of things....

John, Take a ride up to the Kittery trading Post....They have Muzzleloader balls in Various sizes that are perfect for weighting. No F.I.D. needed to buy...hell its Maine they didn't even ask for a Drivers license.....:D

I picked up a 100 of the .40 cal. at about $6 that weigh in about 1/5 of an ounce. Plenty of sizes to choose from.

TDF and Steel,
Pouring is pretty straightforward, in the shop. When you need, we will take the maple or poplar and drill out the size you need. I heat in a ladle normally used for setting in toilet flanges. (I need turned bodies:hihi: )

Yooo. Nightfighter!!! I smell a trade! 1/2" x 1/2" slugs for bodies!Smells good to me! TDF, Hitting Kittery Trading Post on their kayak demo day in March. I'll take a look at the musket balls as well!

I'm a big hook guy.There are a few things u should know 1 3/8 is to far forward for the front hook its gonna tangle on the line I go 1 1/2 back min.then 2 7/8 -3 " to the back hook.Thats plenty of rm for 4/0's.Some like to tighten up on the front or back hook some to keep the weight in the plugs axis but i like to make sure the big hooks don't tangle. U gotta be carefull U don't want the weight to kill the action of the plug.U put that tail hook to far back an the lip don't wanna drag it.In old days the big hook was also the keel weight in alot of plugs thats why 5/0 where so well used.If u go 4/0 a 1/4 by 1/4 piece of a nj tackle tail wieght will be more than enough lead.Especially bein u are usin what looks like pine which could be slightly heavier.I like to make the tail thinner this enables em to work easier.If u notice the pic of the beachmaster danny the body has more taper from midsection to tail.I take that a little further.I love big danny's.There's nothing like slingin big wood an havin it get killed.

Nib, You're right, That's pine. that's what I've got lying around right now. I have no idea how old it is. Came from my Mom's basement.
Only got enough to do one more, maybe two. It sure drank from the well when I dipped it this AM. My final hook holes are 1 3/4" back from the from the front and 4 7/8" back from the front. Centered the belly weight hole.

Also have a piece of mahogany that's thick enough. What do you think? Or should I save that for something else?

NIB, what were Dannys originally made from? I'd always assumed it was pine, but why I don't recall.

That would be awesome! I don't pour lead, so I'll have to come up with some other solution on that end of things.... Also know what color this first one is going to be :-) Can't wait to hammer Large from the Yak! I assume at night they were black?

Go with yellow back/white belly, if you've got to pick one. Also, you might find these plugs a bit heavy to cast from a kayak, on the end of a rod they have some heft.

weight looks BIG, like .50 cal

save em if ya want, cause i ain't leaving them up forever.
mike

That looks like a giant Donny Musso swimmer! Cool!

Was wondering the same thing about the wood... Musso used several different kinds from what I've been able to gather, depending on whether he wanted surfwce or subsurface.

Was throwing 3 ounces from the yak last year. Don't haver to toss far cuase you can get so close :-)

The

The lighter the wood the easier it is to get it to swim.Of course it also means it's not as dense or durable.Pine is a good choice.red cedar is lighter.It's easy to work from a light base piece u can always add weight.U have to make sacrifices to remove wieght.I think the musso pinchney/Beachmaster clan used some kinda pine. I also got some Smaller 6" Danny's that he must've made out of maple.Obviously made for special ops fishing.Turn one in the mahogony an save it fot the big water.I have found that some of the ayc goes heavier (sap wood) i save these for when I want something heavier.Bassmaster like to use ayc for his danny's the six inch models went close to 3 once but still swam pissa.He exaggerated the girth in the middle of the plug to make it bouyant.He taught me alot about metal lips.Without tellin me anything.we learned together but I learned just from lookin at all his creations. I miss him he was the man.

He was good to me as I got started in this a few falls ago. Traded some wonderful emails full of advice, helpful hints, encouragement and support! Never have had the chance to turn a plugs or fish with him. Hope to some day... BM,if you're out there, PM me. I got a plug for you :-)

white pine/northen/eastern,,also white cedar,,the stuff trash bins and garden shed's are made from.

Turned another this AM.
Much better profile thanks to input and pictures posted by you guys.

Looking good, but maybe wait to weight it. I might be able to give you the weight dimensions tonight. The weight you're showing looks like the size they used in the medium Dannys.

Good eye. It is a medium danny weight. It's got to dry overnight at least before I weight it anyways. Looking forward to hearing what the weight dimensions are for these bigger ones :-)

I know lots of guys work off a template when the build a plug.an thats good if'n u wanna make a hole bunch an weed thru the not so good ones.I don't have a duplicator so i do most of my work by selective posistioning of hook holes weight an so forth.Here's what i do I will spin a blank an put the hooks where i think they will work best with the size of the hook an weight balancing as the determining factors.I always have some scrap wire lyin around so i string em up an try to balance the plug in the middle thats where the weight goes. Sometimes I will put it just back of that center 1/8" to give it a little casting Balance. This will keep it from tumbling as much an lessen the chance of hook fouling on the line.Now someytimes in a plug that size I will go wit a 5/0 on the front an a 4/0 on the back wit just tail feathers on the tail no hook.or 2-5/0's an no tail hook.Or a 4/0 front 3/0 rear u get the idea.I like to mix it up.Don't be pigeon holed into thinkin this hook goes on this plug.Use the hooks as a tool just like u would a certain lure for a certain situation.If I find a shape that works I work off the weight,the single most important thing is the weight.I can vary from one piece of wood to another an perhaps is the main reason some plugs work an some are dogs.I almost always take my stuff to the water an test em out wit hooks I have bent in so they don't harm the blank.I will go with several sizes to see what the differences are.Then I write things down its important if u make a good one an wanna reproduce it.Its a pita but its what works for me.I really can't see doin it any other way. Makin plugs is a chore to me the love is gone.There's not enuff instant gratification in it. I hate the waiting between stages of finishing.Alot of my own stuff i prime paint a epoxy the same day.no sealer an trash em when they are done.I have more lures than I can ever throw.I only make em if i think i can make something better than what i can buy or if I need something to fill a space in my arsenal.so testing is something i do to be sure it will perform as needed.Its a good practice.I learned alot about fishing thru this trial an error technique.Then again I make instant oatmeal an sit around an do nothing for a hour.If u get the idea.

Is that a NJT #3 Pikie lip? Or did ja make it?

It's an NJT # 3 pikie. That was the closest visually and dimensionally to the picture of the lip that Numbskull posted that I had.

NIB, I'm trying to picture in my mind what you're doing with the scrap wire. Doesn't sound like you've done any drilling yet. You somehow wrap the wire around the plug and the slide hooks up and down the wire? Then water test in a bucket or the kitchen sink to see how it sits in the water?

I've sometimes put .1 ounce of lead in the tail to help stabalize the plug when I cast. Doesn't seem to affect the action too much.

The big "Danny" I x-rayed has a lead plug 1/2" wide by 1/2" deep (actually a tad more since the top is slightly conical) set deep all the way up against the wire. Of interest, I also shot through a commercially available wooden Atom reproduction. Both the large and small version, in contrast to the original, carry a 1/2" x 1/4+" belly weight, and a 1/4" x 1" through wire tail weight.

The big "Danny" I x-rayed has a lead plug 1/2" wide by 1/2" deep (actually a tad more since the top is slightly conical) set deep all the way up against the wire. Of interest, I also shot through a commercially available wooden Atom reproduction. Both the large and small version, in contrast to the original, carry a 1/2" x 1/4+" belly weight, and a 1/4" x 1" through wire tail weight.

can you bring that info next weekend? that sounds like alot of tailweight for a swimmer

can you bring that info next weekend? that sounds like alot of tailweight for a swimmer

Yeah, I'll bring it, but I'd prefer not to post xrays of currently available plugs. I agree, it was suprising to find it, particularly in the smaller version. But I can vouch for the plugs' effectiveness, and I even fish the smaller version in current with oversized hooks. I think there is something to be said for slowing down the tail action on swimmers, particularly when used at night for bigger fish. Along the same lines, I'm not a big fan of very light wood for swimmers. I've made a few out of basswood. They're too bouyant. I've ended up putting alot of lead at the balance point of the plug, but the plug pivots too much for my taste and they've never caught well. Perhaps I'll try a bit less weight in the center and split the rest between the chin and tail next time (though it seems simpler to just use pine).

Were the original Atom 40's not weighted?

NIB, I'm trying to picture in my mind what you're doing with the scrap wire. Doesn't sound like you've done any drilling yet. You somehow wrap the wire around the plug and the slide hooks up and down the wire? Then water test in a bucket or the kitchen sink to see how it sits in the water?'

I've sometimes put .1 ounce of lead in the tail to help stabalize the plug when I cast. Doesn't seem to affect the action too much.

I basically assemble the plug without finishing the tail rap to find the center in reference to balance of the plug.In this condition I balance on a pencil an mark the spot.
On the weight in the tail its ok for a headwind plug with some surf or current.I never weight em like this though.I'll trow a BM type danny in a wind it goes a mile.The smaller plug is less affected by wind.

Were the original Atom 40's not weighted?
The plastic ones are not weighted
The plastic thru the center of the plg is like 4 times as thick as the outside.an it runs from top to bottom.I'm sure it was designed like that.Not just assembled like that.Giant pike's where weighted.What looks to be a 3/16 hole in the belly.they also have lead in the nose in the thru wire hole.I would guess 3/16" by 3/4" with a hole big enough for the doubled wire t go thru.

Steelhead,

When testing plugs, this is a trick I've put to use in determining hook locations (I believe pasurfer turned me on to it). Drill the thru-hole and weight hole as normal, but do not drill the swivel holes. Take a variety of hooks, a few screw eyes, and your drill with you to test. Stick the screw eyes in the plug where you think the hooks should go, and test. Using the screw eyes, you can move the hook locations up and down the plug as needed to check the action. Many times I'll go as far as predrilling holes at 1/4 or 1/8 inch increments (depends on the size of the plug) down the centerline of the belly to allow for quicker testing. Once you find the best hook location for that style of plug, take the notes as NIB suggested, then knock out a couple more with that set up (swivels holes drilled and everything). Test them out. If they work like you want, you are good to go. If not, should just be some minor tweaking. Note that you can also use a screw eye as the line tie to test out several line tie locations too. By the time I'm done testing a proto-type like this, it probably is not fishable, but at least I'll know how all the other plugs should be built. You can do the same thing with belly weights, lips, and wood types too.

Jigman

NIB, I got it now. You don't drill the weight until you "Set the plug up" with the hooks, lip, etc., Balance and drill.

When you say balanced do you mean make the thing equally balanced from front to back balancing on a center point so it is basicly level? Do you ever make the plug heavier toward the front or heavier toward the back and would there be any benefit to having it any of these ways or are you shooting for the thing to be on a level plane?

Every swimmer has a pivot point in it's wiggle... some -- like those classed as finnish minnows -- are near the nose and normally can't/shouldn't be weighted without destroying or modifying the swim action. Shapes like a Danny will tend to pivot more centrally in the body, very near if not dead-on the body's balance point.

I always look for the balance point with the lip and tail that I intend to use mounted on the body, but without a belly hook. NIB says he balances them on a pencil. I use an old hacksaw blade (cutting edge up) clamped in a vice. Not real scientific, but you just "feel around", moving the body ever so slightly forwards or back, until it balances on the blade. Then I press down gently, while rolling the body side to side, and get a perforated mark that shows were the balance point is. I do this with virtually every new proto I start to work on, just to get a reference point on the body. Sometimes, that's where I want to set a single belly hook. Sometimes, as is the case with a Danny. that balance point where I would normally put a hook might be a little too far back from the head, so you need to add a bit of lead (as a counter weight) somewhere behind the weightless balance line... where and how much lead depends on how far "up" I want to hang the hook... but the objective of this is to keep the body balancing at the original point.

I'm not a big fan of multiple belly hooks, but if it's got to have them to look and swim right, then placing the hooks an equal distance fore and aft of the balance point will usually get you in the ball park of their final position.

Hope that's clear enough to give you some ideas.

P.M., dannies are basically balanced, so if like you said you balanced it on a center point on teh edge of like a hacksaw blade, it would be nearly balanced. That beings said, once you introduce current into it, I don't think it needs to be balanced dead center.

I make a large danny 7 1/2 " to fish in a big rip with fast moving water and while it is weighted dead center to act as a pivot point, its also got a small tail weight. The action of the current on the lip more than makes up for the tail weight, and just a small amount of lead in the tail will take all of the tumble out of the cast.

I do make some slope headed swimmers that are weighted up under the chin, and in that case moving the weight forward helps get the chin down so the head will dig down, and that one pivots more on its head with its tail wagging the surface but it's not a danny...

When you say balanced do you mean make the thing equally balanced from front to back balancing on a center point so it is basicly level? Do you ever make the plug heavier toward the front or heavier toward the back and would there be any benefit to having it any of these ways or are you shooting for the thing to be on a level plane?

Subsurface swimmers are often weighted ahead of their balance point. Most surface swimmers are weighted at their balance point ( as NIB explained, be sure to temporarily wire the lip and hang hooks before you balance the unfinished body on a knife edge to find the center), but there is no reason you can't add weight in the chin or tail to slow the action. As explained in other threads (Jigman perhaps?), the weight acts as a pivot point (actually the real pivot point is the line tie, but the weight modifies how fast the rear of the plug wags behind it). A forward weight results in a larger/slower tail wag, a midline weight speeds things up and adds some roll. A little tail weight is also useful to make a plug more stable in the air, or to suppress the action in fast moving water.

EDIT. Took too long to type this one. Pa and dig said the same thing better.

Thanks guys.

This has been a very helpful thread for me. I had no idea when I asked for help that it would become SO HELPFUL!!! Wow! Each plug will still need its own little touch, but man, a whole lot less fumbling to get there! This thread has been copied to a word doc and filed under "how to tips". Just great!

Were the original Atom 40's not weighted?

tail weight......1/4 dia. x 2 -1/8" long.

Wow! That's a lot of lead! Slow wiggle?

yes,,,but she still floats tail up...v wake...lotta wood on these old gal's......

SteelHead:

How did you make out with the big Danny? Does it swim well?

I did several profiles and lips. One swims Pissah :-)

I use an old hacksaw blade (cutting edge up) clamped in a vice. Not real scientific, but you just "feel around", moving the body ever so slightly forwards or back, until it balances on the blade. Then I press down gently, while rolling the body side to side, and get a perforated mark that shows were the balance point is. I do this with virtually every new proto I start to work on, just to get a reference point on the body.

Hope that's clear enough to give you some ideas.

Thanks ,,,great info .. I usually just wing it .. take them for a swim ,then smash them with a hammer.. Your way is much better..
Hydro-orientated,balanced...gotta be some kinda wind tunnel test too..