It took me a week but I finally got to the Link TLap posted regarding the OTW Striper Cup Tourney.


The tourney rules show a total lack of consideration for conservation of the fishery. Encouraging the taking of two fish (relatively small fish at that) per week to run up a season long poundage total to win the tourney totally ignores the concept of Catch and Release and in fact will result in people keeping many fish , just for the weigh ins.

I am totally opposed to the format that is currently described in the rules and would encourage people to think about the impact their participation , along with thousands of other fisherman will have on the Striped Bass Fishery under the cuurent rules .

I like the fun and excitement that can come from fishing tournaments but for something so potentially large to be put together without any regard for the way in which the tournaments format will impact the fishery is irresponsible.

I'm against this tournamants format and will lobby heavily against it on the sites where I have a presence unless the format is reconsidered

Agree 100%...I'm writing them a letter...

-spence

I`ve been all over the place in my mind and heart with this thing and as the format stands I cannot in good conscience participate and further more I will write a letter as well to the owner and editor of OTW.

Maybe they will change the format?

Mike

Mike,

I agree as well. I don't think they took into consideration that when the original Schaefer Tournament was around the bass were way more plentiful, and many were commercial fishing at the time. I think rather than focus on quanity, they should focus on quality.

i've only kept fish for food.

never for money and never for glory.




OTW's 2nd major mistake in less than a year.

http://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/StoreImages/trek.jpg
A shame Captain, it would have been glorious.

Give them a chance, maybe they'll change it. At any rate, no fish have died yet..
Tourneys are a Catch 22 for the people who put them on - you can't give away big prizes on the honor-system, especially on the cape.

Here's the problem with the one big fish wins it tourney
http://www.mvgazette.com/features/content/fishing/images/girl_lg.jpg
Cape Cod Times, September 22, 2006
10-Year Old Girl Wins OTW Striper Cup!
Happens to be little sister of 13 Year-Old girl who won 2005 Vineyard Tourney!

I agree with Saltheart. This is possibly a disaster waiting to happen to the striper fishery here in the Northeast.

Could we send email to Chris Megan expressing our opposition to the tournament in it's present format? I'm sure a flood of emails protesting the presents rules would give them food for thought. After all, we are their customers. Email would be quicker than snail mail.

Email address is Publisher Chris Megan
cjm@onthewater.com

Do calls, letters, and email....if you really want to get their attention and to let them know we/you`re serious. :call: :cputin:

i kept quiet in the other threads discussing this tournament... Ive killed a few bass for trophy's and i regret it. Heres my 10 cents-Make the minimum Kill and weigh-in 45 lbs, and all fish under that catch and release with a photo- :thanks:

otw puts out a good rag but this turny is ridiculous, encourageing such a large fish kill . have we learned nothing , 20 years ago you could not catch a striper , there were none , only through strict conservation were we able to rebound . i cannot believe that people on this board want to field a team . imho i think we should boycott this turny and let otw know we don't approve of such poor judgement . just this mans opinion " history shows agian and agian how nature points out the folly of man" b.o.c.

There should be no negotiation of the rules, eliminate the tournament completely.

S-B can have its own tournament with other clubs with mutual rules. Awards can be given at a end of year ceremony with dinner at a large banquet hall like Venus de Milo and on and on..

If I fished this tournament, I would have to throw a lot of stripers in the dumpster. The health advisories (listed byt he CTEDP) on these fish limit my personal consumption to six meals a year (one every other month), and none for my wife and daughter.

I will not participate under the current rules. I feel there is no "honor or prestige" in killing so many fish, and I am no tree hugger.

Before we get our panties in a bunch let's not OVERreact.The tourney has not yet begun.Harpoon is a VERY good friend of mine and is always close by.They seem to have genuinely good intent here but perhaps lack a grasp on the pulse of the fishing community.My first suggestion is to bring back their pilsner!!! It's gone but not forgotten.
Second some reasonable suggestions and ammendments to the rules will work fine for me.To weigh in only 45# fish is level headed thinking right:smash: ?Let's get serious here,it's a FISHING contest.Every entrant is eligible to win great prizes(SUV,BOAT),not the cup but WTF.We are gonna party at the brewery,shoot the breeze,drink and talk fishing:yak6: .Sounds like fun to me.
Let's communicate with the sponsor and create a format that's acceptable to MOST of us and win some friggen' pins for goodness sake.But before we shout this down before it gets off the ground let's work towards creating a fair event(I say screw the club thing because that trophy would look great on my mantle).
DANGLES:nopain:

WTF are they thinking ////
DID they do there home work of tournaments of the past ========== did they see the fish that were killed in the name of a tournament ;;;;

They can,t be so blind not to see the opening of all the cheating ,lies, & any other illegal means for some one to have a chance at money , prizes & the biggest cuprit / bragging rights =============[man will go to no end in ways to[[[ WIN};;;

I feel [felt ] this was a good maganizine [sp] with there openess on catch & release //ON TV]]

THe 40# that Steve Mc Kenna caught on camera on sluggo,s //they busted his BALLS because he wanted to keep it ========================= to enter into his club,s tournment ========================^ months ago they felt that was wrong // now they are starting one that implies, expects , & will [NOW{ condone ] the killing of bass =========================== how can OTW do such a bout face //in such a short time /// COULD there be some help in the form of harpoon //

IT Is FLAT OUT F #$%^&*( WRONG }} & THE WAY THEY HAVE THE RULES WRITTEN ?? IS A F $%^&*() SIN ;;;;;;;;;;;

THey CAN TAKE OTW & F $%^&*( SHOVE IT AS FAR UP THE A SS THERE KISSIN >><>><>

& FOR THE GUYS ON THIS SITE THAT WRITE ARTICLES FOR THEM //// THEY WELL KNOW THE PRESSURE THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED TO GET THEM TO WRITE ABOUT SPOTS ///

IT SELL<S COPIES & SO WILL THE TOURNAMENT {{WITH}} THE MONTHLY STANDINGS ::::


F#$%^& THEM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ NO BETTER THAN THE GUY WHO KEEPS EVERYFISH HE CATCHES OF ANT SIZE +++++++++++++++++

WAIT & SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE= SEEN IT BEFORE /// F#$%^&*() A SSHOLES :smash: :smash:

What Clammer (& others!) said!! :smash:

This is far beyond a badly- conceived Tournament: this is an admission by OTW of their "good for us $- wise... then screw the fish!" attitude! (OR screw the hard- core Fishermen who are their target audience with obvious spot- burning! GBI piece was unconscionable considering the un-friendliness of the place already)

Someone at OTW should acknowledge & apologize for this terrible idea ASAP... before they lose their reader (who does love the Striper & cares about the future) forever! :yak6:

wooooooow clammer if you dont want "in "just say so ..the concept the derby is to have a good time and catch a few fish???i dont think anybody in the otw office ,or any of the sponsers want to kill the striped bass fishies ...these people who put this clam bake together are people fish and love the sport..you got to love your job??to do it right ,,and otw is a quality rag with good inten ,the derby is set up for the FISHERMAN best intress...w/o you readers ,no rag give the derby a chance ..rules can get changed for the good ,,we need people like you for help and advice first,,than your criticism,, if nothing good happens then criticize to start....'' i like ONE fish a week ''and for me its 30lbs or better .. clammer thanks for your humble opinion ???? dave laporte ........p.s. this was not ment to be a WARbut a fishin derby ,be a fisherman and give it a chance.......:ss:

Contest+Hobby=sport

sport+Money=cheaters

cheaters+contestants=lawyers

lawyers+hobby=catastrophy!

WTF are they thinking ////
DID they do there home work of tournaments of the past ========== did they see the fish that were killed in the name of a tournament ;;;;

They can,t be so blind not to see the opening of all the cheating ,lies, & any other illegal means for some one to have a chance at money , prizes & the biggest cuprit / bragging rights =============[man will go to no end in ways to[[[ WIN};;;

I feel [felt ] this was a good maganizine [sp] with there openess on catch & release //ON TV]]

THe 40# that Steve Mc Kenna caught on camera on sluggo,s //they busted his BALLS because he wanted to keep it ========================= to enter into his club,s tournment ========================^ months ago they felt that was wrong // now they are starting one that implies, expects , & will [NOW{ condone ] the killing of bass =========================== how can OTW do such a bout face //in such a short time /// COULD there be some help in the form of harpoon //

IT Is FLAT OUT F #$%^&*( WRONG }} & THE WAY THEY HAVE THE RULES WRITTEN ?? IS A F $%^&*() SIN ;;;;;;;;;;;

THey CAN TAKE OTW & F $%^&*( SHOVE IT AS FAR UP THE A SS THERE KISSIN >><>><>

& FOR THE GUYS ON THIS SITE THAT WRITE ARTICLES FOR THEM //// THEY WELL KNOW THE PRESSURE THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED TO GET THEM TO WRITE ABOUT SPOTS ///

IT SELL<S COPIES & SO WILL THE TOURNAMENT {{WITH}} THE MONTHLY STANDINGS ::::


F#$%^& THEM ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ NO BETTER THAN THE GUY WHO KEEPS EVERYFISH HE CATCHES OF ANT SIZE +++++++++++++++++

WAIT & SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE= SEEN IT BEFORE /// F#$%^&*() A SSHOLES :smash: :smash:


I agree with Clammer (I think from what I can read in there :laugha:

This type of tourney is just wrong. We have a shortage of herring - so they close the herring season. We have a shortage of eels - so they are talking about closing the use of eels. There are no more big bunker around any more. The fish in the Chesapeake are all diseased. On and On. Now we want to kill more bass.

Keep it up an we'll be back to the 80's with no bass to catch...:smash:

wooooooow clammer if you dont want "in "just say so ..the concept the derby is to have a good time and catch a few fish???i dont think anybody in the otw office ,or any of the sponsers want to kill the striped bass fishies ...these people who put this clam bake together are people fish and love the sport..you got to love your job??to do it right ,,and otw is a quality rag with good inten ,the derby is set up for the FISHERMAN best intress...w/o you readers ,no rag give the derby a chance ..rules can get changed for the good ,,we need people like you for help and advice first,,than your criticism,, if nothing good happens then criticize to start....'' i like ONE fish a week ''and for me its 30lbs or better .. clammer thanks for your humble opinion ???? dave laporte ........p.s. this was not ment to be a WARbut a fishin derby ,be a fisherman and give it a chance.......:ss:
Lets see what develops and what positive changes can be made.

Mike

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence

I had a great talk with Chris Megan at the MSBA Expo and he told me that they are very concerned what there readers think, and want the best for the fisheries, access, and all together a possitive out look, I am sure after this talk we had (he listened to everything I had to say and seemed to care) they only want the best for all. the fishery is strong and I think if they raise the catch to 40" and over and one fish per week get rid of the points/clubs, make it individual contest it will be alot better. I wish we could figure out a catch and release like the Bassmasters tournament with livewells and all. So I believe that they don't want to lose fatefull readers and they always need new readers, it is just business

Ok...................................... so 467 people enter. If 300 of them catch and kill 5 bass each over 35#....1500 dead breeding females.

If 1021 people enter and 751 of them catch and kill 10 bass each over 25# ....7,510 dead breeding females.

(most but not all would necessarily be females)

Maybe if the minimum size limit was 45# and you could only kill and report 3 max.......893 entered 142 accomplished this...thats still 426 dead females who could breed again.

I`m tired and not making any sense....anyone have any ideas how this might work without killing too many Striped Bass?

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence
spence with all new derbys there is got to be a start ...our own constiatution was written buy men that did,nt all agree but talked an reasoned thinks out ...the otw people want to work with you fisher people,,they did not put up a ton of money ,and drag the sponsors into a pi$$in match ,,,,as for proffit so far i,ve seen more doe go out than come in ...do they sell more mags i hope so ..guys its a good home town mag w/ a good intent,give it a chance stay w/ a open mind ????? p. s. i,ve seen many of 1000 s of pounds of bass throne over board on the gill net boats and dragers ,as useless by -catch off chatham ...now that makes me sick....i like one fish a week ,, the rules can change ..but w/o your imput and patiance it cant happen?????if it aint good e-nuff for you i,m sorryi hurt your feel goods,,,,,dave

I had a great talk with Chris Megan at the MSBA Expo and he told me that they are very concerned what there readers think, and want the best for the fisheries, access, and all together a possitive out look, I am sure after this talk we had (he listened to everything I had to say and seemed to care) they only want the best for all. the fishery is strong and I think if they raise the catch to 40" and over and one fish per week get rid of the points/clubs, make it individual contest it will be alot better. I wish we could figure out a catch and release like the Bassmasters tournament with livewells and all. So I believe that they don't want to lose fatefull readers and they always need new readers, it is just business
thanks bob its people like you that give this derby a chance .. chris megan is a good man """the office staff does NOT need a war over a good intentions and i well hand deliver all your imput to the head dogs for revue and consideration....OK .....i still like one fish a week .... dave

I don't think anyone at OTW is thinking about killing bass...

They're just looking for a way to boost readership, without thinking of the masses who will be dragging in two 34" per week over the entire season thinking they just might have a shot.

It's not like this is a weekend event!

Tourney's are not evil, but times have changed since the 1950's OTW is trying to memorialize.

-spence

Well can u blame a magazine for tryin to boost readership.I love OTW I can't wait to get it.As i see most do here.It bridges the gap for me from Ne to NJ.I would hate to see it go.They are not unlike any other corporation in today's USA tryin to provide a service an stay afloat.
I think it was a nobel idea for OTW an Harpoon to revisit one of the great old tourney's of the past.I think they where genuine tryin to revive some of the great history behind the trophy.Do i think this tourney needs some tweeking To bring it up to modern times absolutely.It is a different world in striped bass fishing.Our club tourneys in NJ work off a similar format.Participaction is a joke.As some clubs don't even weigh in fish.Last yr I only weighed in a few myself.Some things people hold on to because of the history.Change doesn't always come so easy.Cursing an flaming gets nothing done.Instead of a bashing thread How bout some Real Idea's on how this can be done.Now remember u have to be able to invite back quite a few folks to the brewery for a party.It has to viable for both Harpoon OTW an Their sponsors.So how can they accomplish this.If u think about it it can be difficult.But a dogpile on the rabbit gets nothing done.Perhaps making it a big fish tourney is the only real way to limit great overall kills.Like fish over 30 lbs.It will get u enough in to fill a banquet hall an not absolutley pound the fisherey with 15 lb weighed in fish.The Fisherman Mag runs a very similar format for many species I never see anyone complain about that.The contest is already opened up. So it's gonna be tough to change it while it's under way.
That'll be the real challenge one the lawyers might not wanna touch.

NIB.... i could,nt say it better myself ...the other rag does the samething .in i have yet to see PETA at there front door ...some guys refuse to see a good intent ,and only see negativity..i dont think like that .. cause i,m 7 1/2yrs old ,,,and i,m a big boy.......dave...:ss:

.. cause i,m 7 1/2yrs old ,,,and i,m a big boy.......dave...

What the hell does this mean? :biglaugh:

Did you find that album?

Fishing for Bass should not be made a competitive event.
the Stiper population is no where near the level of the 1950's
or 1960's and early 70's. i like OTW but this is a mistake.

I think we want to stay focused on the impact to the fishery. I don't want this thread turning into a "we hate OTW thread". I think its a fine Magazine that hasn't thought the format through well in terms of being conservation minded.

I would suggest that all the club stuff is fine and the individual stuff is all exciting and both should increase overall interest which is good. . Just figure out a way to keep score without needing people to kill so many fish.

I think something like a max entry of 5 fish per person over the whole tournament. You might even further say 1 per month for a total of five , that would rteduce the kill even further but might be squeezing the fun part too much

I'm sure there are lots of other ideas . Keep the posts about the potential fish kill and what to do about it , and give the magazine people a break.

I will be looking for that one nice fish per month......I catch alot of fish but don't lay claim to being a cow killer/catcher......I will be lucky to catch anything worth weighing in knowing full well it will take a fish over 50 pounds to compete overall anyway....so I don't see my catch and kill habit changing in the least......I only keep 2 or 3 fish anyway all season.....and I won't keep a fish to tally overall points anyway as I don't really care for that type of thing. I will be keeping that one nice fish if I am fortunate enough but otherwise I will keep only a couple for the table. I enjoy the camraderie with my fellow fishermen.....this can be a fun event if we treat it right!:bgi:

bigfish.... you have learned the true essence of fishing.

Guys, I think you took my statement the wrong way. I'm not blaming OTW for beeing greedy, just perhaps shortsighted...

-spence

What the hell does this mean? :biglaugh:

Did you find that album?
its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

My concern would be with the yahoos and weekend warriors that read the magazine.The ones that have no clue about C+R,conservation,etc.The ones that can't even tie a knot. .

You mean the ones that stretch a tape measure every which way from Sunday over a 28 -1/1000" fish? And keep two rats a fraction of an inch over the limit?

Look at the bright side--if they enter, they'll at least be keeping two fish that probably already had a chance to spawn once. Maybe they'll actually start releasing anything under 34".

I think the entire C&R thing has gone too far. It is not doing anyone any good not even the fish. It is time to bring back catch and keep. According to many "scientific" articles all the fish you release just die anyany so you may as well keep them.

If we don't takem the comm guys will...take all you can while the going is good.

BTW, the 1980s was the best bass fishing in history!!! More large fish were caught then (including several state and world records) then any time in history.

According to official numbers we have too many bass anyway and nothing is in danger because of the fantastic job that the marine fisher depart's do. Go get em! Worry about any problems later.

its a dig ...it was late last night ,and i was tired, nothing personal..but it sounds like a lot of crying ,over a good intent, as for otw,s mag ,the intent of the derby was to have a good time bass fishing derby not a petty pi$$ing contest ...the opinions good or bad will make to the office for considration trust me ,,DAVE

I`m with you here Dave. I was kidding ya back.
I`ve been reading your stuff for years. Been getting OTW ever since 1997 when I moved close to the ocean and starting surf fishing/salt fishing. I appreciate OTW and all your articles and experiences & knowledge you have shared. Missed your articles in the last few years and got used to seeing Steve mention you in his as one of his fishing buds.

Hope this all works out for you and OTW and the Stripers.

Mike

I have to agree with bigfish. I will sign up for the tourney and my fishing "kill" will not be different from last year. I am looking for big fish, I couldn't care less about a 30# or 40# pin. On the other hand, a 50# or 60# is another story. I think a lot of weekly weighers may be commercial fishers who are taking bass anyway. Anyway, I mentioned my concerns about the yearly #age totals to OTW at the nesaltwater show ( I hope you all did the same ) and look forward to the party.

i can see the concern for the possible ill effects of the tournament on the stiped bass population, but i don't see the contest changing the way people keep fish or release them .the serious fisherman isn't going to keep fish just to weught them in unless it is a large fish. that they would probably keep anyways. the average joe who might weigh in a 34 inch probably won't catch 2 a week anyways and if he did he would keep them anyways.

What was that tourney they used to have for Bluefish - was it the Bluefish Boogie? It was pretty big for a while....

Flashback, circa 1992: Joe was at Quaker Lane B&T contemplating paying the $25 to enter - but decided against it as $25 bucks was kind of pricey and he was spending a lot on gas fishing six nights week. Still though, he was getting some big blues and the first prize was a Jeep that he would have looked good in. But ahh...what's the odds of winning?

Long story, short: The very next night, Joe goes out and twangs a 17-pound blue on a needlefish from along Jamestown's eastern shore - besting the Jeep winner by two-pounds.....

What does all this have to do with conservation and the ethics of fishing tourneys?
I have no blinking idea.
I do however know that not winning the new car hurts a lot more when you could have.

but i don't see the contest changing the way people keep fish or release them.
My understanding of how the contest works is that bragging rights are awarded to the club with the most points at the end of the season. If you were serious about winning, you would enter your two fish weekly to score the points for your club regardless if they were going to take the monthly top fish prize or not. I can't believe this wouldn't decrease the CnR among those members...

It just seems more than a little gratuitous...low size limit, frequent entries, big prizes for incentive (SUV, Grady White) and a season long duration.

I think with a few tweaks they could balance it a lot more and still put on a great tourney.

-spence

BTW, the 1980s was the best bass fishing in history!!! More large fish were caught then (including several state and world records) then any time in history.

According to official numbers we have too many bass anyway and nothing is in danger because of the fantastic job that the marine fisher depart's do. Go get em! Worry about any problems later.
Yes, all there was was big bass, very poor YOY indices, and the fishery collapsed.

Indanite - I'm guessing you have not made up your mind because I can't see which side of the fence you're going to fall off of...

Let's keep this thread as good DEBATE. There is a lot of discussion on this that deserves hashing out more.

I'm pretty confident that OTW had no desire to create a "Kill Tourney" but instead was looking to recreate one of the greatest east coast tourneys in history, the Schaeffer Tournament. While I am personally encouraged by a regional Tourney (undecided if S-B participates as a team - on another thread) I am concerned about the potential fishery impact. Sure, there are plenty of "meat" tourneys around that just about all of us particpate in, typically weeklong / weekend tourneys like MDA, MSBA, Boston Harbor, etc.

So is the question that people would like to see OTW modify & reduce the "Kill Quotient"? And if so, HOW would you recommend it be done?

Increased minimum size ? Not fair to a lot of the noobs or those that can't target in best areas / methods (not that they would win anyway, but they could participate)

Max total of fish weighed in? Set a limit of X amount of fish per month? Set a limit of X amount of fish per person per TOURNEY?

What can be done to make this more conservation friendly?

I am supportive of a Tourney, but I would like to see modifications to reduce the pressure of this tourney and would like to see it further discussed. And, yes, don't look forward to see people cheating in it...

One more thing that I am sure will pi$$ some people off - commercial striped-bass permit holders should not be allowes to submit a fish during their open season. I know, it sucks, start the flame wars, but there is an advantage for them...


BTW - Harpoon makes my favorite beer in the world, doesn't mean I'm going to lay down on the tourney for it :buds:~ regardless of how close it is...

There sure is plenty to think about here. I'm amazed at the number of angles to consider. I'm grateful to you guys for pointing some of them out to me. I can be pretty clueless sometimes.

Would there be this much controversy if it were named the Bluefish Cup? or the Dogfish Cup? or the Codfish Cup. Seems to me no one would have a problem with those species weighing in 2 a week.
Big blues aren't that easy to find lately up here. I haven't gotten a blue over 15 pounds in quite a few years. But most everyone that has "Striper fever" could cares less about most other species.

I have never fished a MV tourney, that is a month and a half long, but I don't recall this much talk about all those fish that are killed. Is that derby ok since it has been going for 60 years?

I very rarely enter tourneys outside of the ones within my club. But if there is a dollar involved people with be dishonest.

If OTW wants a tourney fine, give them a chance to work out the bugs. I am sure they will make changes yearly to satisfy differing opinions for various groups.

JohnR

Isn`t it very clear that I am undecided? :wavey: It is for me.

If they change it so tons of Stripers are not killed needlessly I`ll enter... if not I won`t and I`ll call, write, email, and post my opinions.

And............ most of the suggestions made to how to change the numbers I made early on when many didn`t say peep or that they would enter without question. At the same time I`ve been back and forth and conflicted but bottom line worried about too many Striped Bass being killed.

Respectfully,
Skitter

The world does not need another reason to kill striped bass, particularly the large spawners. This tournament is short sighted and irresponsible. "Recreating the past" is best left to politicans and old rock stars. On the Water could, and should, do much better for the resource we all have to share.

NIB.... i could,nt say it better myself ...the other rag does the samething .in i have yet to see PETA at there front door

That other rag keeps a weekly tally at the back of the magazine, that way you know what size fish you would need to beat.


I like the idea of limiting people to so many fish over the life of the tournament.

Although maybe taking a big chunk of the population may not be a bad thing, considering that their food sources are not as plentiful as they should be.

There sure is plenty to think about here. I'm amazed at the number of angles to consider. I'm grateful to you guys for pointing some of them out to me. I can be pretty clueless sometimes.
me too Fred:wave:

Not about killin lots o fish for total points.Anymore.killed my share in NJ club tourney's.Definetly not a tree hugger though. i love to eat fish.
All kinds.
Not sure i need any pins either.If it becomes something along the lines of shaeffer i might miss out on ownin some when i'm old an gray an


I said this bout a 6 days ago.

Does anybody pay attention to the NIB.
:wall: :rotf2:
I still admit the Idea of bringin back the history of the tournament as a whole could be a good thing.I ten yr commitment would be nice for starters.I know how do they do that.But a fly by night 2 yr thing would be a real waste of fish an time.Without longevity there is no credability.

Would there be this much controversy if it were named the Bluefish Cup? or the Dogfish Cup? or the Codfish Cup. Seems to me no one would have a problem with those species weighing in 2 a week.
Big blues aren't that easy to find lately up here. I haven't gotten a blue over 15 pounds in quite a few years. But most everyone that has "Striper fever" could cares less about most other species. Good points but yes, it is a little different. Regs on bluefish are significantly looser than on bass so there is a difference. Cod & Dogfish aren't exactly known for their shorecatch abilitiy. None of the three have anywhere near the glamour and desire of the striped one. In fact, if you look at fish, in our waters, that are available to the usual person, the only thing on par would be freshwater bass. And those tournaments do Catch & Release.

I get 15# or better bluesfish from shore practically every year. I don't weigh them in, even though I would have likely won shore categories of most clubs I am in. Nor do I weigh in Bass that I know would place in tourneys unless I think I will win.

I have never fished a MV tourney, that is a month and a half long, but I don't recall this much talk about all those fish that are killed. Is that derby ok since it has been going for 60 years? One month long and the system does not encourage the accumulation of points. Sure there are categories and weeklys and dailys but it really gears toward the bigger fish. Is it the most conservation friendly? Probably not. But fish can be donated to the food bank.

I very rarely enter tourneys outside of the ones within my club. But if there is a dollar involved people with be dishonest. Unfortunately agree.

If OTW wants a tourney fine, give them a chance to work out the bugs. I am sure they will make changes yearly to satisfy differing opinions for various groups.
This is interesting as this is open discussion on this exact topic. OTW watches this site and others and will look, hopefully with an open mind, at this discussion and understand that it is just that, discussion. In fact, I would like to see some of them come on board to discuss... I think this tourney can be good but I would like to see it tweaked to be more conservation minded...

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. Give OTW a chance at working out the kinks before your wedgie causes blood loss to the extremities.

that most of us only dream about catching a 30 #, 40#, or a 50# FISH. .

If every fish over 15lbs HAD to be released, I think your dream would be alot more likely to come true. Killing the largest and most fertile members of a species is not the way you make more large fish. Ensuring that smaller fish have more chance to breed, creates a smaller strain of fish. Ensuring the least efficent breeders breed, creates less fish. Why is that so hard for recreational fisherman to understand?

wooooooow..everbody has a valid opinion,,pro and con... this derby is brand new ,,right out of the box,,every otw dot head is watching this line for comment..and paying attition...the intress is fishing derby not a fishing war !!!!! give them a chance ,,it can only get better...try the derby for one year ,,if you are not happy ,,,then make your opinions know.... loudly !!!!! i like one fish per week per man

indanite ...thanks for remembering me ,,, it makes me feel good that i left a good imperssion when i wrote for the mag...i told only the truth ,about what i knew and were i fished,,my though is the spots were never mine alone ,,but for all of us,,, i know how to share....i,m almost 7 1/2 and i,m a big boy now???????only kiddin,,,

Nobody is against a big derby or against a nice dinner and beer fest afterwards. I like the fun and certainly like the beer. The whole point of the thread is to get the tournament organizers to consider a way in which the tourney can be big and fun without requiring a large fish kill.

I think it would be interesting to hear from the "rules committee" who came up with this current format. Why were the rules written as they are. I would guess in the excitement of planning a blockbuster tourney , nobody even considered the conservation angle. Its just something you have to take into consideration these days.

I believe there was no ill intent on the part of OTW. They just didn't think the whole thing through. I have written to Chris in the past an gotten replies that may not have agreed with me but were his opinion, which is fine. Send him emails or write or call and let your feeling about the tournament be heard. i think they will respond. They don't want a war with their readers.
Let's let calmer heads prevail.

I never received a response to my 2 e-mails from last year's "OTW" controversial issue. :smash:

there not going to answer every e-mail sent espesaly if there geting flooded with hundreds on the the same issue.As far as the tournament goes NIB said it best,I love the idea they just need to change the rules so less fish are killed.

The only thing I can't figure out is that the OTW folks don't want people to send in any pictures of fish that have been taken/killed. They only want pictures of fish that are alive and look like they will be released. I understand this and the reason that they only want pictures in their magazine that look healthy for the fishery and the sport. But now they sponsor a kill tournament?

The folks that run OTW are good guys, so I'm sure they can make some changes to the tourney before it begins.

I can't imagine how you would run a C&R tourny and control cheating. Esp when it comes to cars and boats as prizes. I bet guys are coming up with cheating schemes as we speak.

The few big boat tournys that are run as C&R require a certified observer on board. I doubt you surf guys will hire an observer to watch out fish.


Once the prizes get big, cheating becomes a real problem. Kill contests are the only way to insure a fair contest. Even then it is tough. Killing a fish is not a sin. God put them on earth for us to eat. BESIDES according to OTW's own recent documents, you could not weigh a fish over 20# an let it go alive, it will die. 100% dead a given fact, so you may as well eat it.

Before we get our panties in a bunch let's not OVERreact.The tourney has not yet begun.Harpoon is a VERY good friend of mine and is always close by.They seem to have genuinely good intent here but perhaps lack a grasp on the pulse of the fishing community.My first suggestion is to bring back their pilsner!!! It's gone but not forgotten.

I have a couple friends at Harpoon that I'll bring this all up to.
I'm sure once they see that we're concerned they'll rethink it all.

Sounds like OTW turned this tournament over to a publicity firm to run the tournament. Trying to make it the best that they could. someone just didn't realize the impact that it was going to have.

I don't believe that OTW is any less concerned about BASS than anyone on this site. No BASS not much OTW.

My hunch is there is going to be a board room meeting very shortly to revise the tournament to make it much better (for the bass).

We need to express our concerns but in a constructive way and directly to OTW. They have tooooooo much to loose.

If the rules aren't modified, we'll just sick CLAMMER on them!

Just athought,how does one fish every 10 days sound?Entrants would have reason to be selective in what they keep.Sure would hate to weigh in a 30# fish and 5 days later land a45# with no chance for even a pin.Whoever thinks this is too many fish should join PETA!!IPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPAIPA

BTW, the 1980s was the best bass fishing in history!!! More large fish were caught then (including several state and world records) then any time in history.

According to official numbers we have too many bass anyway and nothing is in danger because of the fantastic job that the marine fisher depart's do. Go get em! Worry about any problems later.

I think you know what I meant by referring back to the 1980's. You know - the time in the 1980's when few could even catch a bass.

That's a pretty cavalier attitude - "worry about any problems later"...

45 inch minimum length.. enter all the aplications into a drawing to win the big prizes, and the winner of the biggist fish gets a trophy and a case of beer.

correction- winner of biggist bass gets a years supply of beer :cheers:

correction- winner of biggist bass gets a years supply of beer :cheers:

I'd settle for my favorite Winter Warmer, delivered via Kegerator, for six months of the year (seeing its only made for three :wavey: )

Folks - this is good discussion, let's keep the discussion good. Megabyte - good points...

45 inch minimum length.. enter all the aplications into a drawing to win the big prizes, and the winner of the biggist fish gets a trophy and a case of beer.


That is not a fishing contest, sounds like a lottery. The largest fish should be tied to the awards somehow..

How about, only count fish over 50#. That will cut the numbers down. A 20 or 30#er is no trophy fish. Biggest fish wins... big prize and trophy in each div and must submit to a polygraph. Fail the polygraph and you get nothing except shame from your fellow fishermen as your name will be plastered in OTW as a cheater. Have a surf, kayak and power boat div. No 50's caught...nobody wins the big prizes and the prizes roll over (in value) to next season...so next year they give away a 29' regulator loaded instead of a boat too small to use in most of the NE waters.

After thinking about it perhaps instead of a weight limit, it should be length...45 or 50 inches. this way, you don't have to weigh the fish and you can release them alive...but you still have to do a polygraph and risk social humilation from your peers if you cheat.

my idea does sound like a lottery, but it would cut down on cheating. I do like your polygraph idea though.. very very smart idea.

There can be a 800 telephone number, for example
(1-800-KILL-FISH ) :call: that you call to find the latest statistics for the month.
This will be a recorded message that gives the largest fish (lbs., girth and length). If the fish that you catch exceeds this amount then it will be the largest. The certified weight station will have access to this 800 number to record a message with the next largest fish.
If you don't have a scale then the girth and weight will give you a ball park weight to determine if you should release or bring to the weight station.

I believe that this may be the better alternative .

_________________________________________
I subscribe to OTW and just recently updated for a new year plus a new hat, I hope I can wear it in pride.
____________________________________________

There is a omen in all of this which is the "harpoon" was the weapon the was used that made the whales nearly extinct. Now it is "Harpoon Brewery"

I am in it. Already signed up. Will I be registering 34 inch fish? No,I would be embarrased to haul in a fish to be weighed as small as that. Has Stripers Forvever got you all in a mind control cult? Commercial guys must love this debate. Bigfish, call me, you can fish with me anytime.

Expect the phone to ring Steve! :)

If course your in, you wound not bite the hand that feeds you, would you ?
I still like your articles.

Sounds like OTW turned this tournament over to a publicity firm to run the tournament. Trying to make it the best that they could. someone just didn't realize the impact that it was going to have.


I find it hard to believe that they would turn it all over to a publicity firm, and not do their homework.

Somewhere there are lots of villages searching for their idiots.I'm not sure how many 50's are confirmed every year but trust me,the number is extremely limited.The trophy is the problem here,talk of a S-B team and dominiation:whackin: ,come on now it's a web sight not a fishing club, until some individuals thought they could get an edge on the prize as a club.A 35 # fish that is shore caught is worth bragging about,a forty+ will get you in on monthly action.We can make this thing work.I don't fish alot but my catches over 30# last year from shore were single digits.Take away the fall and that number goes down signifigantly.A reasonable format will provide the groundwork for a great contest.:ss:

If course your in, you wound not bite the hand that feeds you, would you ?
I still like your articles.

You are assuming that I was somehow "forced" into this? Are you that Naive? I joined cause I wanted to. I know the real odds. Saltheart and the rest must have an inside track. Your statement is an insult. You don't know me and your idiotic post proves it.

I must say....many were all Gung Ho until someone actually read the rules!:smash: You can fish this contest many different ways.....perhaps the rules read poorly but if you all fish this contest with the same good fishing habits you all claim to have....it should work out for all. I belong to MSBA and our club preaches catch and release. I know they would not like the membership out there weighing 2 34 inch fish a week just to balloon the points total......that truely would be shameful and what club could be proud of so much waste? As stated before.....fish within yourself, practice all that has been taught to us through the years by many. I do not like the accrued points portion of the contest, but that does not mean I am not going to participate. I am going to fish this season as a registered participant and maybe that one nice fish will come....and if it does, depending on what the leading fish is at that particular time (I will be keeping tabs so I know I do not kill a fish for no good reason) I may weigh in that special fish and see if I can do that wonderful fish proud. I would probably keep that fish anyway regardless of the contest so why not add a nice pin to the accomplishment of landing a good fish.....of course I am talking about that 40 plus pounder that I have not caught yet. It has been a goal of mine for awhile and if it comes, I have a right to keep it and do with it as I see fit! If however it will not put me in the lead at that time....I will have a decision to make.....to keep it for myself or take a few photos, weigh it on my Berkley and release it to fight another day! This is how it can and should be done!

Also Redsoxticket....don't knock the man for doing what he feels is right.....especially if you do not know the man. You will do what you think is right and that can't be a bad thing.:)

What if the club tournament was not based on total lbs, but based upon the number of pin fish, but add one further restriction that each person can only weigh in 1 fish in each pin slot, ie 1 @30#, 1 @40#, 1 @50# etc...

For most of us that would probably mean we'd only weigh 1 fish, 2 if we're really lucky. An angler who could nail one in each of the slots would be your angler of the year.

*** let's move this back to discussion on the issue, not at a personal level ***

What happened to the intelligent dialogue?:read:

Commercial guys must love this debate.
:humpty: Straight up, correctamundo, Mr. Flap.
A MA Commercial will win - probably someone we know.
They fish the fish the most.
They're the hungriest.
They're the most competitive.
They have the largest talent pool.
They have biggest pile of dead fish to cull from.
The dates favor the best part of their run.
They're not boycotting.

Culling was the only concern I have.....they can choose from the big pile after their haul.......anyone with a commercial license should be excluded.:huh:

I don't know what you mean that I must have an inside track.


You are assuming that I was somehow "forced" into this? Are you that Naive? I joined cause I wanted to. I know the real odds. Saltheart and the rest must have an inside track. Your statement is an insult. You don't know me and your idiotic post proves it.

Culling was the only concern I have.....they can choose from the big pile after their haul.......anyone with a commercial license should be excluded.:huh:


Ditto

I think the slot idea is a good one, sort of like playing cricket!

-spence

I'm pretty sure I'm in the wrong part of the chat forum ,but I'm looking for info reguarding striperfishing in dennis port this time of year

*** let's move this back to discussion on the issue, not at a personal level ***

Wheres Slipknot to quote me, when you need him?

I was wondering when this was going to storm up unreasonably.

Sunny and getting warmer :love:

deleted


Hmmm

Lets get back on track people.

Oh boy! here we go. We haven't had a good war in...what...3 weeks?

Paul...you wanna piece a me?

-spence

What's wrong with you people?

:wall:

enough with the insults and personal stuff Steve, I know someone assumed something, but you don't need to escalate things.
It is not making you look good and the board doesn't need that kind of crap. Debate the subject without name calling please.

Paul...you wanna piece a me?

-spence
Me and you Spence, 3:00. behind the swingset.:heybaby: :laughs:

Me and you Spence, 3:00. behind the swingset.:heybaby: :laughs:
It's on...I'll be the one in the linen leisure suit and karate loafers.

U a ded man.

-spence

It's on...I'll be the one in the linen leisure suit and karate loafers.

U a ded man.

-spence

The scary part of this is that you'd be wearing that anyways..


I have kept out of this thread because I have mixed feelings... I usually activly fish the spring and fall surf tourny's here in RI and have the last 5-6 years... I am in several fishing clubs where we weigh in fish for a yearlong tourney... so it is a bit contradictory that I should be against this tourney, but I have some serious reservations...
I would like to see some changes...
-Bigger minimum size.. 40" or maybe 43 or 45"
-Limit each angler to 2 or 3 fish for the entire tourney...
-Make penalty points for bringing in undersized fish.. penalize the club and the individual for this...
-No culling

I havent entered the Swamp Yankee for the same reason.. a weekly weigh in adds up to more fish than the normal angler would kill. I'm not anti-kill over a 6 or 7 month season I kill about 10bass and eat them. I have zero problem with that... killing 2 a week for an extended period of time I would have a problem with

Having grown up in the moratorium I dont remember the good old days of the 60's and 70's but I sure as hell dont want to be back in 1985 again... with a 36" limit it took along time for me to see a legal bass as a kid....

Someone brought up SF... Steve... know where at least I'm coming from.. I'm not a supporter of them at all.. perfect case of too much of a 'good' thing... i.e. being an environmentalist is good... being in Greenpeace is taking it (in sarcastic voice) A BIT too far... same idea...

If anyone is going to enter the tourney to go for largest fish, go for it, if it means you are killing the same number of bass as before... if it means you will be killing significantly more bass than normal, then use your head and decide for yourself...

*** let's move this back to discussion on the issue, not at a personal level ***

Guys and gals - the subject warrants good discussion - not crap slinging... Let's keep it at discussion please...

Thanks,

John

But I like Mud wrastlin' :hihi:

It's on...I'll be the one in the linen leisure suit and karate loafers.

U a ded man.

-spence


Striped Bass Fisherman Gone Wild :spin:

Spence move the rumble off a couple of hours so we can sell some tickets to raise money for the site.

Regardless of all the emotion this issue has raised its nice to see so many people so interested in the same the, the well-being of the species.

Nib - thanks for being the first one who brought this to light - I noticed.

Just a few thoughts and observations:

Almost everyone enjoys a good tournament based on the healthy competition and camaraderie it develops. I’ve fished in many, good and bad, over the years. I’ve also have the experience of organizing many others.

It seems the major part of the “Striper Cup” that is generating controversy (as well it should) is the “Aggregate weight/points” divisions. I’d like to state that I, like many others, enjoy a good tournament. I enter a few each season, usually because I feel I may have a shot of winning something such as some new gear (which I probably don’t need). The events I enter are usually beneficial to fisherman and/or society in general.


Some key points of good tourneys:
1. A sense of fairness to all participants – an example of this would be separate categories for surf and boat and equal prizes (in value) for both. I’ve been involved in some where prizes were used fishing gear! (A half filled bulk spool of line in my case)

2. Most well run tourneys had rules and regs that took conservation into consideration. This would prevent over-fishing and the needless entry of bass that had no chance of taking a prize. An example would be a minimum weight entry that is not “easily” attainable. For instance the fishing club I’m a member of requires any bass entered into the club tourney to be 25 lbs minimum. (A poor example would be a tourney that took and kept a fish you entered then sold it to the market next door and the organizers kept the proceeds! True story).

3. If a tourney has a “club competition division” there would be a limit on qualified entries, in other words only a clubs top three bass would qualify in that division. This is done to even the playing field between some clubs which may have a 1000 members and others that may only have 20. Top three bass in total weight wins. This set-up also allows individual clubs to let their members know what size fish it would take to qualify so needless fish are not killed for entry. Example: Club A has three bass entered, 45, 40, and 39 lbs. Its members will know not to keep anything that doesn’t beat a 39 because it wouldn’t count.

4. Most responsible tourneys have a designated charity for proceeds or part of proceeds. These proceeds generally go to some organization that stands for the “betterment of fishing” or is youth or health oriented. I’ve always been wary of any tourney that appears to be a money maker for someone behind the scenes.


A few more thoughts about other posts – don’t get mad about how others feel. Everyone has there own view and freedom to express it. There are members here who are great fishermen with who I enjoy talking/fishing with immensely. We may disagree on topics from time to time but I would never let those disagreements allow me to disparage them in a public thread such as this. I value their friendship too much.

I won't enter the "Striper Cup" as advertised. If you enter a tourney you support the whole tournament - not just the part you like.

DZ

Yeah, what DZ said.

One thing that I keep reading is "I won't keep anythin under X." That's fine, no really. The PROBLEM is that a number of people won't do that. That's the problem w/the rules as written. It really does encourage people to kill more than most of us find acceptable.

Will I enter? not as the rules are now. There really needs to be a weight minimum and a set number of fish to be entered. I am not slamming OTW, but come on. This seems like a much to obvious issue to miss.

Thanks DZ;clarity and serenity.

Great post DZ.

(so did you win the used line?)

.

3. If a tourney has a “club competition division” there would be a limit on qualified entries, in other words only a clubs top three bass would qualify in that division. This is done to even the playing field between some clubs which may have a 1000 members and others that may only have 20. Top three bass in total weight wins. This set-up also allows individual clubs to let their members know what size fish it would take to qualify so needless fish are not killed for entry. Example: Club A has three bass entered, 45, 40, and 39 lbs. Its members will know not to keep anything that doesn’t beat a 39 because it wouldn’t count.

4. Most responsible tourneys have a designated charity for proceeds or part of proceeds. These proceeds generally go to some organization that stands for the “betterment of fishing” or is youth or health oriented. I’ve always been wary of any tourney that appears to be a money maker for someone behind the scenes.

DZ

Great post DZ :btu:

I hope OTW can make an addendum to their rules regarding your point number 4 or if they want some variation of it I'm sure that would help. That sounds like a most excellant idea as opposed to the way it is written now, where there is the possibility that club members could theoretically enter 40 bass each in the tournament in order to get enough points for their club to win which IMO would needlessly kill far to many bass that may otherwise have been released.


I also hope that some of the proceeds go to help the fishery or to aid in teaching youngsters about fishing and the right way to do it.

This summary paragraph is a copy of the Massachusetts Division of Marine Fisheries
Technical Report TR-24 regarding Striped Bass harvest in Mass in 2004

During 2004, the commercial fishery for striped bass in Massachusetts harvested about 60,632 fish weighing 1,206,305 pounds. Total losses due to commercial harvesting (including release mortality) were 70,544 fish weighing 1,304,752 pounds. The recreational fishery harvested about 403,547 striped bass weighing over 5.4 million pounds. Total losses due to recreational fishing (including release mortality) were 868,413 fish weighing over 7.7 million pounds. Combined losses (including scientific losses) were 939,078 fish weighing over 9.0 million pounds, which reflects a 16% increase in numbers lost and an 11% increase in weight lost compared to 2003 (810,381 fish: 8.1 million pounds) The majority of losses, 92%by number and 86% by weight, was attributed to the recreational fishery.

After reading the above summary does anyone really believe the OTW fishing derby is going to have any effect on the fishery whatsoever? People Who Fish, Keep Fish, and those that catch and release kill a percentage of those they release, plain and simple. And it would be the vast majority of those fish that are killed anyway that would make it to the scales, and entered into the derby Big Dave

I spoke for quite a while to Neil Larson, gm of OTW, and expressed my concerns about the 2 fish per week. He seemed genuinely interested in my comments. He also told me that OTW was not opposses to making rule changes as issues arise. OTW was not looking for a kill tourney. I will give OTW a chance at this, and have signed up.

I read into those numbers a bit differently.

They are attributing nearly 1/2 of the rec loss to reasons other than harvest.

If release mortality is a big part of that, and say the mortality rate is say about 10%...it would indicate the majority of bass caught are released.

-spence

Nib - thanks for being the first one who brought this to light - I noticed.


DZ

Denny,
I Bet U noticed the part about mud wrastlin.
:rotf2:

Spence to your argument.

Not every fish is a keeper. A lot of those fish die, from being caught, this is especially true of small fish, and they fight so hard they damage and pull their mouths and at time gills apart during a fight. Yet the fishermen will cast another offering to them. Which leads to another point about recreational guys, not many of them stop fishing when they take a keeper or even 2. If the fish are there and they are willing to be caught most fishermen I’ve seen will keep catching and releasing as long as the fish cooperate. Which counts as well towards the mortality of the fish. Again I state, people like to fish, keep fish, and keep fishing no matter what, and with that comes the inevitable death of fish, well intended releases or not. Big Dave

Mass, RI & CT regulations clearly state that anglers are allowed 2 fish at 28” per angler per day. That’s 14 fish per week. If someone really wanted to, they can keep over 300 bass a season. Does anyone keep that many fish? No. But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.
In my opinion, harvesting fish can be good for a species. Many fisheries encourage keeping fish, and if regulated properly, leads to a healthier population.
Take a look at deer hunting. Overpopulation leads to malnourished deer that can’t survive the winter. Hunting leads to bigger, healthier deer.
Weighing in 2 fish a week over an 18 week tournament will not make stripers extinct. Just as we are all allowed to keep 14 fish a week, no one really does, and I don’t think there will be many people weighing in 2 fish every week in this tournament, just to win a trophy. I think the two fish-per-week rule is a good limit, and is far more conservation-minded than many other tournaments (take a look at the MV derby). Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

Mass, RI & CT regulations clearly state that anglers are allowed 2 fish at 28” per angler per day. That’s 14 fish per week. If someone really wanted to, they can keep over 300 bass a season. Does anyone keep that many fish? No. But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.
Yes the regulations clearly state that BUT assuming if everyone were able to catch and then to take 2 legal fish per day / 14 per week, there would be a SIGNIFICANT impact on the fishery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. A couple years ago they might say to Mass DMF that they can allocatate for grins and giggles 1 million pounds of bass and Mass then would need to come up with regulations to meet that target. For years Mass had 1 fish @ 28 inches and based on the numbers available at the time, Mass had an uncaught balance of about 14% under the quota. So Mass for example could have added 2 fish @ 28 for say 3 months of the season as they felt that would use the last 14% of their allowable quota. When Mass went to 2 @ 28 they felt the chances of one person keeping the second fish was significantly less than keeping the first. And they assigned some number like 10% of trips would catch a keeper in the first place...

Sorry for the ramble but 2 fish per day per angler for 7 days a week for the entire season would really harm the fishery.

But according to the marine biologists that come up with these #’s, the population would, theoretically, be able to handle it.
I'd wager there's simply no way this could be true. The difference in scale is so huge the formula must be weighted to compensate.

Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?
I think this sums up the entire thread pretty well.

-spence

Let’s say you hook up a 35-pounder on Monday, and then land a 50 on Friday. How are you going to feel letting go a fish that might get you the key to a Grady White?

Unfortunately, since there are big prizes involved that 50 pounder will go imediately on ice until the next week when it can be weighed.

woooooooo...back to your corner ladies ... ding ....its round two....this debate is very construtive???i,m certain lots of ears are listining...and it dont hurt to hear others opinions,but i,ll tell you now the rules are set for this year ,and the rules can be adjusted ,changed or modified for future derbys..otw and its sponsors did not put this party together so we could tear them apart with neg-opinions and spectulations....lightin up ,, this is a good local sports rag ,,,with good intentions ''' dave ;; I still like one fish per week per enterance....big dave i like your thinkin too;

Am I gonna have to start to another Hamas/Humus thread?

Does OTW practice OJT?

woooooooo...back to your corner ladies ... ding ....its round two....this debate is very construtive???i,m certain lots of ears are listining...and it dont hurt to hear others opinions,but i,ll tell you now the rules are set for this year ,and the rules can be adjusted ,changed or modified for future derbys..otw and its sponsors did not put this party together so we could tear them apart with neg-opinions and spectulations....lightin up ,, this is a good local sports rag ,,,with good intentions ''' dave ;; I still like one fish per week per enterance....big dave i like your thinkin too;

Dave - this debate isn't constructive? I've seen similar talk, though brief, on the SNESA list. A president of a well respected RI fishing club has presented many issues with the current rules. Yet, "lots of ears are listening" but we're being too negative. I don't follow you. They are listening but don't like what is being said? They are a fantastic magazine, really (not just plugging for a free subscription), they have great writers and contributors, and their show, thought it competes in my household with Teen Titans and What not to Wear (just guess who gets left out) is excellent. It doesn't mean that we should lemming our way on over to the signup sheet.

I personally think the idea of bringing back a large tourney on the likes of the old Schaefer Cup is a great venture. Sponsored by my favorite beer to boot. BUT could the tourney be a little more conservation freindly? Uhh, yep. And that is what is getting debated here and rationally for the most part. Don't see it as a dig against OTW. Its not. This is open discussion. And it is being discussed by a few well respected members of the fishing community in addition to the rest of the riff-raff (myself included)...

So, seeing that people are reading, are they listening?

some sitting ducks :rocketem:

S/T I guess ya didn,t like my way of thinking ><><><><


BTW how many tournaments did you fish in the 60,s & 70,s ????????????????:huh:

gentlemen ??? the idear of the derby was to bring back a tredision of fisherman and striped bass clubs and not to hurt the fisherie.all opinions need to be heard,,,god bless america,,,, for that...i know otw is listining.. an thinkin whats best for ALL the playersin the derby......dave ps clammer i respect your opinions ...thats why i,ma adult

Unfortunately, since there are big prizes involved that 50 pounder will go imediately on ice until the next week when it can be weighed.

Welcome to the land of tournaments.

A Question for Big Dave.. How does the Dept. of Marine Fisheries, track the recreational numbers, and how accurate are they?

How many recreational fishermen have kept track of their numbers and reported them to the state, independent of any poll taking?

I have participated once, in that poll, when a volunteer approached me in my camper, years ago. I listened in awe, as he was given artificial numbers from a couple of others, having a little fun with the guy. It was obvious, with the choked laughter he was getting BS'd, he was even smiling, as he was writing. And, in the several years since, I have not seen anyone else out polling, where and when I fish.

I have been told, by a person from the Dept., that those numbers, at best, are a guess, based on a small percentage, that are polled.
At least the comms. have weigh slips.

[QUOTE=JohnR].

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. QUOTE]


We call this Vodoo math.Every yr.in Vodoo math they are able to minipulate the numbers in order to give us the the Maximun sustainable yield.In nj we where able to go back to 2 fish because of a .01 percent difference in Vodoo math.Although i see more bigger fish today i think the past few yrs the fisherey has gotten worse.Its hard to support a tourney that promotes a 2 per week kill totals.

Sorry, I love tourneys and The pins could mean something to someone when I'm long gone (probably not but u never know)but at 2 per week for 16 weeks its tough.on the individual side I think someone could easily do 32-20 lbers as a average.Thats 640lbs.That could be a conservitive amount.take a small number in a NE tournament like 100 anglers,say they average 500 lbs.Thats just the individual end.when u add in clubs an do the math across it adds up quick.Will it make a difference in the 9 million taken in Mass according to the vodoo math.Who can say for sure.Its just not the type of thing I feel I should be supporting.The downside is not a option for me striper fishing is my life.I agree the tournament needs a numbers limit, DZ suggested 3 for the clubs.U could do the same for the individual i think That limits the lottery.It is for the grand prize part a lottery anyways.Perhaps top 5 would'nt hurt either clubs an individual..I thought the old tourney had some kinda numbers limit for the clubs like top 10.??
I think ball type lottery thing for inividual would be most fair.Like the NBA Draft lottery #1 angler gets 10 balls an #2 gets 9 an so on.Some simple minds are thinkin what about ties an so on.U don't have to use balls. It can be done with a computer to work out the finer calculations of a multiple entries format.More than just weigh one in over 35 lbs an get a chance to win.This method rewards the top angler with the best chance.If I weigh in 8- 30's why should someone who gets one have the same chance.thats the way it is as far as I see it.
They more than likely won't make any changes this yr.Guess I will have to wait till next yr

What's wrong with you people?

:wall:

enough with the insults and personal stuff Steve, I know someone assumed something, but you don't need to escalate things.
It is not making you look good and the board doesn't need that kind of crap. Debate the subject without name calling please.

Bruce I respect you but no one, not you, JohnR or anyone else is going to stop me from saying what I want when I want especially if someone tries to question my integrity. If the board doesn't like it it too bad for you all but I will not back down from something like that.

Someone questioning that will be responded to, plain and simple. Unlike many others here I do not see things in gray but black and white and will not cudgel and cojole others with happy feelings so we can all "just get along" therefore no apologies to anyone, I stand where I stand, you all can see it with no illusions.

I have been at this way too long and have seen many and been involved in many things related to Striped Bass, thier stock levels and the effect some assume this Tournament would have on the fishery.
People that have only been in the game for five or ten years have no idea of the real scope of this fishery, who it affects and what effects it.

Making that assumption on there part is akin to Hillary Clinton moving to New York and running for senate, she has no real basis, no deep connection to the real issues. I am in it, I still belive in it I have no qualms about it. And I will not tolerate proposed innuendo and questioning of my integrity. I do not care who likes or dislikes me, I sleep well every night.

$ :yak:

I'm glad you replied Steve. I don't blame you one bit for defending yourself when he made it personal by questioning your integrity. I would have done the same thing but as a moderator I would have left the namecalling out , that is all.So that's why I said something. I could see it coming when I read it :hidin:

Back to the discussion of irresponsibility now.............

I guess we'll wait and see how it all turns out this year. I doubt that many people will be weighing in 2 fish per week and I also wonder if OTW is planning to make public the total amounts of fish entered at the end.
After reading some of the replies here, I come to the conclusion that some of you need to read the rules as to how the prizes are awarded.

Look, I love stripers as much as anyone, but I don't get this sacred cow mindset. Some people have no problems killing bluefish even if they don't keep them. Some people keep their limit of fluke, flounder, tautog, scup, sea bass, cod, pollock or haddock (if they lucky enough to catch a legal one) every time they head out. How many people will head out in a month or so and fill a couple of totes with mackerel to freeze and use as bait the rest of the season? Not a single one of the fisheries I listed is as healthy, numbers wise, as the bass fishery. Yet we wring our hands over a tournament that was conceived for the right reasons, because it'll result in dead bass. Post a picture of a 10# fluke on the internet, or an 8# tautog, and everyone goes "wow, nice fish". Not a single person ever says, "shame on you for keeping it, you should have released it". Post a picture of a 40# bass, and dollars to donuts some yahoo is going to criticize you for not releasing it. Yet, I'd venture to say there are tons more 40 bass out there than there are 10# fluke, and much more damage is being done to the fishery by killing 10# fluke. Fluke and tautog were put here to be killed and eaten, in a lot of your minds. Stripers, I guess, were put here to be worshipped.

If you practice catch and release with keeper groundfish, more power to you, and your opinions here have the same merit. If you don't, well, maybe a look in the mirror is in order before you criticize OTW and their staffers for hosting what some of you think is a striper Holocaust.

Agreed....format needs some re-thinking

This is just me, but i say let OTW water run the tourney the way they want to this year. Hopefully, they take note that so many people out there are concerned with bass mortality and will change the format next year. To assume that we on this board have the pull to change what they do is not reality. It will take many many many people sending them letters and e-mails to get them to budge. This thread is a good basis for them to go by, but this thread will probably not be their bible when or if they make the new rules. What will be the decision maker for them in the end is how much $ goes into their coffers.. so if you dont agree, dont join. If you agree with them, then sign up. If you disagree with everything OTW does, then cancel your subscription. Personally, i am not going to enter- i dont want to kill anymore fish with the hopes of winning somethign for it. If i kill a fish it will be for a dinner party.

one more thing- a percentage of people that would kill a bass to win this tourney would have killed the fish anyway for food or for the taxidermist.

This is just me, but i say let OTW water run the tourney the way they want to this year.

Do we really want to hope they can learn from their mistakes?

This is just me, but i say let OTW water run the tourney the way they want to this year. Hopefully, they take note that so many people out there are concerned with bass mortality and will change the format next year. To assume that we on this board have the pull to change what they do is not reality. It will take many many many people sending them letters and e-mails to get them to budge. This thread is a good basis for them to go by, but this thread will probably not be their bible when or if they make the new rules. What will be the decision maker for them in the end is how much $ goes into their coffers.. so if you dont agree, dont join. If you agree with them, then sign up. If you disagree with everything OTW does, then cancel your subscription. Personally, i am not going to enter- i dont want to kill anymore fish with the hopes of winning somethign for it. If i kill a fish it will be for a dinner party.

one more thing- a percentage of people that would kill a bass to win this tourney would have killed the fish anyway for food or for the taxidermist.

I am still planning on coming down to fish with you and see the studio.

Steve - I respect your opinion even when I don't agree with it. How's that :tooth: ?

I just think this tourney could be more conservation minded than it is as it stands now. If this year's rules are cast in concrete then perhaps they could have been discussed prior in a more open format (I can't see any reason why they would not have been discussed before and I believe OTW took it seriously when they did).

If S-B fields a team, do we impose our own little extra limit? Be it a minimum size? Or lmiting fish weighed in over the course of the tourney? Will that put a disadvantage on our people as they enter?

Thanks,

John

If S-B fields a team, do we impose our own little extra limit? Be it a minimum size? Or lmiting fish weighed in over the course of the tourney? Will that put a disadvantage on our people as they enter?
Sort of like running a campaign and pledging not to take soft money :hee:

-spence

Yumpin Yee Zuss :conf:

More good info. pros and cons.... I`m more confused then when I started here but this has been great discussion!

I hope to be healthier to fish later this season and I sure could use any of the prizes especially a chance at the larger ones which I would sell. I am too friggen fickle but value some of these lifetime salt fishers opinions very much.

We do not have a choice about LETTING THEM RUN IT THE WAY THEY WANT at this point and hopefully they will change the format next time around if they decide to stay in it.

If I do sign up it will be as an individual and I`ll only register big bass if I`m fortunate enough to catch one.

And by the way I think OTW is a great magazine. :kewl:

:scatter: Mike

Is'nt there a song that goes "It's my party and I'll play if I want to...

It is their tournament and as most things in this world work just follow the money. If it does what they want this year they won't change it, if it does'nt they will end or adjust it. Each of us is free to vote with our dollars by entering or not.

I do have a question: Was there an entry fee for the Schaefer?

I'm not entering for a number of reasons, because living in VT its too far for me to have good odds, there is no surf division and I have some other things I don't like about the rules.

Then again I don't buy lottery tickets either and Hopefully I'll catch a 80# fish this year because I did'nt enter.:jump:

Is'nt there a song that goes "It's my party and I'll play if I want to...

It is their tournament and as most things in this world work just follow the money. If it does what they want this year they won't change it, if it does'nt they will end or adjust it. Each of us is free to vote with our dollars by entering or not.

I do have a question: Was there an entry fee for the Schaefer?

I'm not entering for a number of reasons, because living in VT its too far for me to have good odds, there is no surf division and I have some other things I don't like about the rules.

Then again I don't buy lottery tickets either and Hopefully I'll catch a 80# fish this year because I did'nt enter.:jump:

No there was no entry fee for schaefer but you had to be registered by a certain point in the year and yes of course clubs can and could create there own set of "rules within the rules" for their participation.

Schaefer spent an untold amount of dough putting it on and had a staff with a director just to run it. It got to be too much for them. Back then the public sentement towards drinking, beer advertising and such was much more favorable and they were making money hand over fist.

Look, I love stripers as much as anyone, but I don't get this sacred cow mindset. Some people have no problems killing bluefish even if they don't keep them. Some people keep their limit of fluke, flounder, tautog, scup, sea bass, cod, pollock or haddock (if they lucky enough to catch a legal one) every time they head out. How many people will head out in a month or so and fill a couple of totes with mackerel to freeze and use as bait the rest of the season? Not a single one of the fisheries I listed is as healthy, numbers wise, as the bass fishery. Yet we wring our hands over a tournament that was conceived for the right reasons, because it'll result in dead bass. Post a picture of a 10# fluke on the internet, or an 8# tautog, and everyone goes "wow, nice fish". Not a single person ever says, "shame on you for keeping it, you should have released it". Post a picture of a 40# bass, and dollars to donuts some yahoo is going to criticize you for not releasing it. Yet, I'd venture to say there are tons more 40 bass out there than there are 10# fluke, and much more damage is being done to the fishery by killing 10# fluke. Fluke and tautog were put here to be killed and eaten, in a lot of your minds. Stripers, I guess, were put here to be worshipped.

If you practice catch and release with keeper groundfish, more power to you, and your opinions here have the same merit. If you don't, well, maybe a look in the mirror is in order before you criticize OTW and their staffers for hosting what some of you think is a striper Holocaust.

Well said Mike P. This is the point I was trying to make with my first post on this subject.!

Sure they kill xteen million pounds a year and this tourney will not change that significantly. Sure people take ground fish and mackeral and blues etc. Are you supposed to throw in the towel cause its an uphill battle?

The thing that will make a difference is an accumulation of choices over their fishing years by many people.

If you simply look at the reality of the poundage taken per state and compare the pounds in this tourney , you may say what difference does it make. However , if you can step back and have a vision ( guys like Bob Pond had a vision , not a magic wand) then you can see that discussing the conservation issues is good to make people aware , the more people are aware , the better for the fishery.

Opposing this tourney and any tourney that has not taken conservation into consideration when they write their rules and determine the format of these events is part of acting on that vision. One small step at a time , and eventually you have walked a mile.


There is no one thing anyone can do to suddenly cut the Xteen million pound number in half . What we can do is one person at a time , make the right decision; one kid at a time , teach them conservation ; and one tournament at a time , oppose thoughtless rules and fish killing formats.

It all adds up and you can see that if you have a vision.

Act to make that vision a reality by making the right choices , on small matters. Over your carreer as a fisherman and over the carreers of people with whom you share the vision , it will add up.

Steve ur integrity will never be in question with me.There can be no doubt on the matter.Ur one of the most knowledgable well spoken guests to the site. A bonus for sure.But.(don't u just love that word)
When u blow a gasket it's funny.:tm:
When I read THE post i was like "oh boy this is gonna be good"
an then u replied an I was :rotf2:
Keep up the good work.:hihi:

Take your ball and go home if you don't like how the other kids play...

My vision is to fish the tournament accordingly.....with good conservation practices and thoughtfulness in regards to what fish I choose to keep and how many fish I choose to keep! Many folks I am positive will fish it the same and the folks who choose to abuse the fisheries and take more than they need....well they are not going to change regardless of the situation! You are all making good points and obviously we all share the same passion for conservation of the striped bass and the same concerns in regards to the same. The cullers, the poachers who take more than they are allowed by law and the folks who practice poor catch and release and conservation practices will always be the problem. Sure the rules may need tweaking...but given time I am sure OTW will do just that. Police the way in which you fish it and hope others do the same for now......no laws have been broken and all is in bounds and really all we are worried about are those who abuse it......and as long as they adhere to the 2 fish per week rule I don't think it is all that bad......just the accrued points system that needs refinement. You are after all allowed 2 fish a day in Mass........you guys don't seem to be doing nearly as much screaming about that! Maybe you should!:uhuh:

No there was no entry fee for schaefer but you had to be registered by a certain point in the year and yes of course clubs can and could create there own set of "rules within the rules" for their participation.

Schaefer spent an untold amount of dough putting it on and had a staff with a director just to run it. It got to be too much for them. Back then the public sentement towards drinking, beer advertising and such was much more favorable and they were making money hand over fist.
Thanks, that is what I guessed

Fishing for Bass should not be made a competitive event.
the Stiper population is no where near the level of the 1950's
or 1960's and early 70's. i like OTW but this is a mistake.

Yeah, your right about that. The current population is much higher than it was back then!

Fishing for bass is and has been a competitive event for some time! All the clubs have a club derby to my knowledge...MSBA, RISSA, MBBA, Plum Island to name a few.......all require fish be weighed and measured on certified scales....no catch and release there! How many of you nay sayers fish your club derbies? Explain to me the difference one from the other?

From the OTW website:


Striper Cup Tournament T-Shirt Produced by The Black Dog

• 2006 Commemorative Striper Cup Pin

• Invitation to the Striper Festival at the end of the contest

• The chance to win a 2006 Grady White 180 Center Console!


INDIVIDUALS:

• ALL participants in attendance at the Striper Festival will be eligible to win a 2006 Grady White 180 Center Console.
The winner will be drawn during the Striper Festival, the invitation-only party at the Harpoon Brewery in October. Five keys will be drawn and given at random to attendees of the “Striper Festival.”


Black Nickel Pin Bronze Pin

Silver Pin Gold Pin

• Catch qualifying fish to enter 30-, 40-, 50- & 60-Pounder Striper Clubs. These accomplishments will be recorded, and the anglers' names will be listed in OTW and on our Web site. Each fisherman entering a fish into a club will receive a Harpoon Pounder Club pin, signifying his accomplishment.

• Angler Of The Year
Trophy will be awarded to the angler who accrues the most points over the season in both the boat and shore divisions.

• Striper Of The Year Award
Trophy will go to the largest striper weighed in during the tourney.

• Monthly Winners (5) -The angler with the largest striper each month will be eligible to win the Grand Prize 4x4.

• Weekly Winners (20)
-Weekly Boat Angler Winners (Largest fish of the week)
Rod and Reel Combos
-Weekly Surf Angler Winners (Largest fish of the week)
Rod and Reel Combos

• Junior Anglers
-Weekly winners (20) receive OTW prize packs with subscription
-Monthly Winners (5) receive rod & reel combos
-Monthly Winners (5) eligible for the fully outfitted kayak

CLUBS:

• The Striper Cup
The club that accrues the most points over the course of the tournament will get to drink from the “Striper Cup” for one year. The winning club must present the trophy to the following year’s winner.
• State Winners
Trophies will be awarded by state to the club that has accrued the most points in each state (NY,CT,RI,MA,NH


Am I missing something. As I read the prize description, everyone who enters the torney has a chance to win the Grady. It is not based on points or size of fish, you just have to show up to the "striperfest" (I bet they would get better attendance if they called it the "stripperfest" ). In order to win the 4x4 you must be one of the largest striper of the month winners, a total of five. The only area points come into play is angler of the year/club of the year and state.

Dont get me wrong, I do not want people to take 2 small fish a week. Based on history, I only catch 3-4 fish a year that would qualify for a pin or prize. I have no desire to accrue points and win a trophy for bragging rights or any other reason. Lets hope the clubs/individuals will realize the impact of taking so many small fish and decide not participate.

Explain to me the difference one from the other?
Cumulative year-long poundage. Whichever club kills the most fish wins.
DZ made a great suggestion in having clubs only submit the top 7 or 5 or 3 fish, that way anything not meeting the mark doesnt need to be killed.
I would really like to fish this tournament, but have reservations with the club fish kill, and the early ending time frame
Actually, re-reading the rules, I'll probly just enter as an individual. I interested in seeing what others "sharpies" are actually catching in the surf

OOpps
I meant to say "participate in that particular part of the tourney" I am going to sign up and look to catch a big fat monster bass.

The big difference here is the cumulative poundage format. It encourages large quantities of fish be killed to make points.

I got no problem with tournaments and think they are fun. I got no problem with taking fish home to eat. I got a problem with killing fish to accumulate points in a tourney. The format of this tourney is what I'm protesting , not the tourney concept.

I'm really surprised at the number of posts that say something to the affect that ...."well we already do this wrong and that wrong. Why get upset about doing this tourney wrong?"

Its like saying...."I already cheated on my wife last year. I did it again last Christmas , what's wrong with cheating on her again tomorrow?" Just ask your wife if she goes for that logic?? :)

Yes the regulations clearly state that BUT assuming if everyone were able to catch and then to take 2 legal fish per day / 14 per week, there would be a SIGNIFICANT impact on the fishery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the state allocations are based on perceived pressure as there are not landing receipts from every angler on every trip to give hard numbers. So they use their estimates from their dosckside / shoreside studies and guestimate a total catch and compare that to what they feel the biomass can manage and be sustainable. A couple years ago they might say to Mass DMF that they can allocatate for grins and giggles 1 million pounds of bass and Mass then would need to come up with regulations to meet that target. For years Mass had 1 fish @ 28 inches and based on the numbers available at the time, Mass had an uncaught balance of about 14% under the quota. So Mass for example could have added 2 fish @ 28 for say 3 months of the season as they felt that would use the last 14% of their allowable quota. When Mass went to 2 @ 28 they felt the chances of one person keeping the second fish was significantly less than keeping the first. And they assigned some number like 10% of trips would catch a keeper in the first place...

Sorry for the ramble but 2 fish per day per angler for 7 days a week for the entire season would really harm the fishery.

John,
Not quite right. Striped bass is managed on a coastwide basis, i.e. there is no allocation of the quota to any individual state. ASMFC sets the maximum creel limit, all states have the option to use a more restrictive limit. But your main point is correct, in that effort is factored into the equasion and if all fishermen went out and killed two fish a day, it would have a severe detrimental impact on the fishery.

John,
Not quite right. Striped bass is managed on a coastwide basis, i.e. there is no allocation of the quota to any individual state. ASMFC sets the maximum creel limit, all states have the option to use a more restrictive limit. But your main point is correct, in that effort is factored into the equasion and if all fishermen went out and killed two fish a day, it would have a severe detrimental impact on the fishery.

Actually - I reread my post and it was a little wishy-washy but correct where it talks about how the states managed quotas before Ammendment 6 hence the "couple years ago". This is what allowed Mass to have a 1/day with a a bonus period so to speak with a time for 2/day under the old rules - they chose not to implement it but they could have... Also allowed other states to implement slot limits. All were based on allowable numbers from ASMFC with the state to decide how to achieve under that quota.

OK Saltheart, I guess you've convinced me to sign up as an individual then. That way none ,if any, of the fish I weigh in will go to that club poundage most people are complaining about. I can't see myself keeping more than the usual amount of fish this year anyway. I'm with bigfish:eek5: did I just say that? :hidin:

Cranium, nope, you didn't miss anything, that's how it's written.

Cumulative year-long poundage. Whichever club kills the most fish wins.
DZ made a great suggestion in having clubs only submit the top 7 or 5 or 3 fish, that way anything not meeting the mark doesnt need to kill it.
I would really like to fish this tournament, but have reservations with the club fish kill, and the early ending time frame
Actually, re-reading the rules, I'll probly just enter as an individual. I interested in seeing what others "sharpies" are actually catching in the surf


In the schaefer clubs were allowed to enter only the ten top fish caught for each eligible species ( Bass, Bluefish, Cod and Weakfish, which were on the list, then off, then on again) per month. Therefore, the fish had to be big in order to garner the points and surf fish were worth two points as opposed to boat fish at one point. 90% of the Schaefer weigh stations were fish markets. As most back then sold thier catch. Not only "commercial" rod and reelers but Mom and Pop and the uncle Bob and whoever caught fish. A very small majority didn't.

I write for OTW, I am not in thier employ and had no input nor would I try to force my views upon them. I know how I will fish. I will not be entering every over 34 inch fish I catch. If I happen to take a big one, ie way over 30 lbs, it's in. If I don't, no biggie. I catch many fish each year, a reasonable guess would be over a thousand or more, it ain't hard to catch a hundred in a day in some of the places I and some friends fish, just ask Stiff tip.

In converstion with Bob Pond many years ago at the Worcester Show and several occasions after that, I asked him what he thought was the biggest threat to bass and he answered "Acid rain, chemical run-off of fertilizers in Chesapeake, pollution in the Hudson". He went on to explain how his number one concern, acid rain, was not allowing the fertilized eggs to develop. That was the basic premise of his Stripers Unlimited work. In that he was ahead of his time and finally like the return of the Osprey to the Chesapeake watershed, the bass rebounded also, due to the reduction of acid rain and chemical run-off. He never mentioned tournaments to me and I spoke with him at length many many times. One has only to research the year with low acid rain occurences in April in the Chesapeake and it's correlation to high YOY indexes to see the link.

Mr. Saltheart, your reference to Bob Pond is based on conjecture and not fact and he himself would tell you that for Bob Pond is an honest man who plainly stated fact and did not bend the facts as they came to light to further his purpose. He was right on his theory, and for that we shall always be grateful.

Oh yeah, I forgot. The fecundity of the Striped Bass is almost unparrelled in the icthyological world. Given the right conditions the bass could expect indices of recruitment of it's stocks that dwarf other species. It is a known fact that although a frty pound cow may carry millions of eggs, the older she gets the viability of those same eggs is questionable as opposed to younger and smaller female bass in the mid teen weight classes whose eggs, though less in volume are much more viable and less subject to non-developement.

First time weighing in on this thread. So here goes;

1. I will enter and fish for S-B, if it enters as a club.

2. I will weigh in fish ONLY if they meet the 30, 40, 50 lb. slots, qualifying for pins, and maybe weekly/monthly prize. If I should be so lucky to catch and weigh in a fish in a particular slot, I do not intend to weigh another for that slot, but will rather target another, as yet unattained slot.

3. I will go to the festival in the hope that I can have a shot at a prize, and more importantly, see all you jamokes.

I disagree with a number of things stated in this thread so far. Among them, the high mortality rate of released fish (what the hell are they doing to them????) and the statement that someone without 10 to 15 years of this addiction can't grasp thaeoverall big picture. Forums like this, books, and insights from folks like Capesams and Flap can give great insight into the history, for those who care to read and think. (hell I've learned a great deal from your musings, Steve)

Have I gotten snobby over striper fishing? Hell yes. We who are concerned over a 'Kill' should be happy that the great majority of the yacht club set and surf/boat fishermen couldn't put 2 keepers in their boat on a weekly basis if their life depended on it. And how many googans do you go by on an average outing???? I don't want to be seen as a fishing snob, nor as being unaware of the conservation issues we have seen in the past. It's a fishing thing.......

Don't put words in my mouth Flaptail. I don't appreciate it any more than you did when someone questioned your motives for your comments here.

I simply said ...."Bob Pond had a vision , not a magic wand". The fact that he had a vision is fact not conjecture and is based on many times I talked with him at his Atom factory which is about 10 minutes from my house. He had a vision and acted on it and did good for the fishery despite fighting an uphill battle.

Reread what I said and if there's anything there you don't like , lets discuss it but don't put words in my mouth.

In the schaefer clubs were allowed to enter only the ten top fish caught for each eligible species ( Bass, Bluefish, Cod and Weakfish, which were on the list, then off, then on again) per month. Therefore, the fish had to be big in order to garner the points and surf fish were worth two points as opposed to boat fish at one point.
Why didnt OTW follow that format, makes more sense.
Since there arent other species, they should seperate boat and surf into 2 fields.
I look forward to grabbing some pins :)

Krispy....that is exactly what I am trying to say....you should go ahead and fish the tourney, ignore the club poundage portion of the tourney and just weigh your best fish should the fish merit keeping in your view! Thats all I am doing....not entering as a club member because I do not like the "kill for points" portion of the rules. If I am blessed with a 30, 40, 50 or even a 60 pound fish (like that might happen:hihi: ) I will weigh it in accordingly. :cool:

Worlds are colliding, I agree w/ BigFish, Flaptail and Saltheart in the same thread :eek:

The boat guys have this locked up.. I don't think you realize how many big fish these guys take ***per day***. tons of 20's lots of 30#ers a few 40's and some of the hotshots take a 50+ once or so each season. A surf fish winning this thing is a long shot. And they DO cull out smaller fish, few take a fish less then 20# to the market. So they will weigh in the fish, then take it to market .

Removing myself from this thread, I am getting too much email about it.

I think many of you lost focus about what this thread was discussing, which isn’t hard because so many views have been expressed.

The initial question actually started on another thread – Should S-B.com field a team to compete for the new “Striper Cup”?

Most anglers would tend to agree that a tournament with prizes for individuals in various categories is not really anything to be concerned about. Many exist already.

The point of contention with the new Striper Cup is the point system for the club competition that has “no limit” on how many fish a club can enter.

Here is the statement from the OTW website:

(The members of the club with the most points tallied throughout the season will take the “Striper Cup” to display in their clubhouse for the year.)


To give you an example on how this contest might be run - read the following scenario:


Press Release 2006

Striper Cup Results

_________ Fishing Club Claims Striper Cup Bragging Rights

The_______ Club takes first place in the first annual Striper Cup with a total of 3653 points (awarded 1 point per pound). Minimum weight for entry was 15 pounds. 210 club members entered 189 striped bass over the course of the 20 week season. Of the 189 entered only 4 won awards in the ______Club’s own year long contest.

Club President -------- was proud of his members. “We made a big push for the trophy in August and September” he said. “Our members were encouraged to weigh-in all the eligible bass they could and they came through” - “they weren’t the biggest bass but we had enough weight to beat everyone else” he continued. “Now we can say we’re the best, at least for this year”.



So here’s the question each one of you should ask of yourself and your club:

Do you/we want to support a tournament like that?

I’m only one voice in my own club, but as President of it I would recommend “No” if it came up. But my club members might not see it the same way – in that case we would vote on it. But I’m fairly certain that a club like ours would not be willing to support the Striper Cup unless it changed its rules on club competition.

DZ

...It is a known fact that although a frty pound cow may carry millions of eggs, the older she gets the viability of those same eggs is questionable as opposed to younger and smaller female bass in the mid teen weight classes whose eggs, though less in volume are much more viable and less subject to non-developement.

That's old mis-information, not a "known fact". While it's true a bass may have less-viable eggs by the time it reaches the end cycle of its life (we're talking 65 or 70+ pounds), recent studies have showed a 40-pound bass has both several times more eggs (is more fecund) and more viable eggs when compared to a 20-pound bass.

That's old mis-information, not a "known fact". While it's true a bass may have less-viable eggs by the time it reaches the end cycle of its life (we're talking 65 or 70+ pounds), recent studies have showed a 40-pound bass has both several times more eggs (is more fecund) and more viable eggs when compared to a 20-pound bass.
I would love to see that info, can you give me the link?

Saltheart, by invoking the name of Mr. Pond you invariably lead anyone to believe that it can be reaonably inferred that he would have supported your view on this issue.

Now, that said, do you or anyone else here oppossed to the tournament fish the Martha's Vineyard Derby? It's one 28 or better inch bass a day, right? One bass for each contestant for the 30 days of the derby, if fishing was good. Now the OTW Tourney goes 5 months with two fish a day over 34. Hmmm.....

There can be a 800 telephone number, for example
(1-800-KILL-FISH ) :call:

I like that. :laugha:

Now, that said, do you or anyone else here oppossed to the tournament fish the Martha's Vineyard Derby? It's one 28 or better inch bass a day, right? One bass for each contestant for the 30 days of the derby, if fishing was good. Now the OTW Tourney goes 5 months with two fish a day over 34. Hmmm.....

The Derby does not have a system that rewards aggregate weight. Sure, there is the Grand Slam that allows for aggreagate weight of your biggest fish in each of 4 categories but that is about it. On the leader board the biggest fish is the biggest fish - depending on division. Granted, some people weigh in 8# albies just to get a picture taken in front of the Derby Sign and I'm sure more than a few do so with a 32" bass to get "On the Board". Personally, I wouldn't do that and a lot of people don't. I don't enter the Tourney to get a daily but on the odd chance that pure luck puts me in the right place at the right time so that with luck and any sense of skill I may have gained over the years would let me land a fish that can place or win the thing.

Two different things in my opinion.

Other tourneys, like the MS Tourney (Formerly MDA ) for example, only factor in the top 3 fish of each species for each club and the duration is only one weekend.

I'll be honest, I do like the idea of this tourney but I think it needs to have it's rules tighten up a bit.

Twice now DZ has completely nailed this thing on the head!

Any Bass contest that emphasizes poundage over time... & long- range kills/ weigh- insto "win" is ludicrous & laughable.you want to have a top 3 biggest fish of the Tourney/ year, fine! Those fish are almost always going to be kept regardless... the CONTEST is not encouraging & creating their demise!

Anyone here like to brag about numbers of Bass you catch over time... or the biggest ones? Anyone here even target #'s over size? (Serious guys don't obviously)

You want to "beat" the other Clubs to a "win" by dragging in more poundage all year long-- as many 12 & 20 lbers as you can carry?? So you can hoist a "Trophy?" Really?? :huh:

I enter no Bass contest nor Tournaments ever-- I fish for myself & own goals completely, allowing me to be 99% C & R-- but I'd not be against one that emphasized size / best few fish win per contest/ year... vs. #'s & poundage kept! Either way like DZ I'd prefer someone running the Contest to benefit the Striper-- not Corporate profit: all proceeds to go toward anti- Reduction / pro- Pogy lobbying, for instance? :angel:

I agree with LeCounts. We should fish together sometime. :gu::

I am still planning on coming down to fish with you and see the studio.

you are welcome down here anytime.. :ss:

Steve - I respect your opinion even when I don't agree with it. How's that :tooth: ?

I just think this tourney could be more conservation minded than it is as it stands now. If this year's rules are cast in concrete then perhaps they could have been discussed prior in a more open format (I can't see any reason why they would not have been discussed before and I believe OTW took it seriously when they did).

If S-B fields a team, do we impose our own little extra limit? Be it a minimum size? Or lmiting fish weighed in over the course of the tourney? Will that put a disadvantage on our people as they enter?

Thanks,

John

Suppose we took our version of the " High Road"( if we could manage to agree on where THAT was before the tournament was over) and actually won something? Say we don't go for poundage but the one really good fish of a week or month? I have to admit that I hadn't read the rules before I agreed to (Asked to?) fish for S-B. The thought of killing 2 34 or better fish a week for points just sticks in my craw tho. I'll fish to fill the freezer, always have. Never have fished for points before, that makes things real complicated...

Krispy //
you stated that you want to how the other surf sharpies will be doing ///

whatever it takes // you,ll never know where or how the fish was caught [if] it was caught /////


Steve /I guess there where different times in the S/C //I don,t remember cOd or Squet // when I was in it =it was bass & BLUES /boat & shore // 5# for Blues 15# for bass -- 10 fish each division --came to 40 fish a month // that were culled as the month went along // also [WHO knows what fish were boat or shore :uhoh:

Flap ,I don't want to highjack what has turned into a most excellent discussion and I don't know about ...Invariably leading people or ....what they might reasonably infer or ...what someone might have supported.

I can tell you three things that I know for sure Bob Pond was concerned about

he was definitely concerned about the run off of fertilizer into the Chesapeake Bay system and in particular that that run off extended way up into Cental Pennsylvania and Lancaster County where he could make little headway in convincing people concerned about their religion and culture that they should reduce their potential crop sizes by using less ferilizer to save some fish with stripes.

He was also concerned with possibly relocating fish to try to establish spawning areas in other places besides the Chesepeake bay and Hudson River ( I believe he actually transported fish to the CT river but I'm a little fuzzy on that memory)

He also was in favor of Catch and Release as evidenced by the fact that he would always let me know that his people would be glad to rig my poppers with single tail hooks instead of the standard trebles (if I wanted) to make it easier to practice Catch and Release .

These are facts from which people can invariably be lead or reasonably infer whayever they want.

OK. How does this strike your collective chords?

If then we as a group do not support the aggregate poundage award, we do not fish as a club member, but enter as individuals only. That in effect would be our way of boycotting the club award for most aggregate points ie. pounds. This effectively would mean no S-B club entry, which would be OK by me, after hearing all your thoughts here.

According to a letter from Chris Megan , OTW , posted elsewhere , OTW is trying to come up with a solution to the concerns raised about their tourney and the conservation issues. Good for them for listening and responding positively. Lets hope it all gets worked out to everyones satisfaction.

According to a letter from Chris Megan , OTW , posted elsewhere , OTW is trying to come up with a solution to the concerns raised about their tourney and the conservation issues. Good for them for listening and responding positively. Lets hope it all gets worked out to everyones satisfaction.


:musc: :musc:

Granted, some people weigh in 8# albies just to get a picture taken in front of the Derby Sign and I'm sure more than a few do so with a 32" bass to get "On the Board". Personally, I wouldn't do that and a lot of people don't.

John--there are a number of people who weigh in 32" bass to have a shot at the daily "Mystery Prize". They'd do the same with small albies if they could. Personally, I stopped fishing for albies because it's very difficult to release one alive, and they're inedible--the fillet program won't even take them. Most of the ones caught during the Derby wind up as lobster bait.

This is an email posted on another site. It is a response sent by Meghan to one of their members.

Folks,

I very much appreciate you feedback regarding concerns over fish counts
and how they relate to the Striper Cup Tournament. I especially admire
those who can respond with a level head in the hopes that some positive
change can follow. I will and do answer all emails that make sense and
don't tell me how to run OTW, but instead communicate, insightfully, how
OTW may need to address certain issues and can help with issues facing
all fishermen today.

With that said, I am looking at the possibility of tweaking the
tournament without changing the period of time. For those of you who
use words like "slaughter", "game fish", or "fish kill" to describe what
OTW is trying to achieve with the Striper Cup, I imagine nothing short
of canceling the tournament will suffice, that's not happening.

Any tweaking to the tournament will be updated on our web-site by week's
end. I ask you all to keep an open mind, as many of you already have,
and be apart of the process as OTW works through the growing pains of
reviving the once great, Schaefer Tournament, while keeping a watchful
eye on the conservation issues of today.

To that end, state biologists from CT to MA have studied this more than
many of us and have determined that two fish a day at 28" can be
harvested throughout the entire season without harming the year
classes. I don't necessarily agree with that assessment and would love
to see that number be reduced to one fish per day, which the bass stocks
can and do sustain. It is the very reason we limited the Striper Cup
catch to two fish PER WEEK or less than 15% of what the state will allow
any recreational angler during the course of a week. For those of you
not familiar with the old Schaefer Tournament, for most of the years, a
legal fish was 16" and you could take as many fish as you wanted.
Clearly, we veered from the path of the old tournament by greatly
reducing the fish that can be weighed. It may need to be further
tweaked, but blanket accusations and generalizations do nothing to
further any of your collective issues with OTW. Consider for a moment
that possibly, just possibly, the management program was so successful
that today striped bass are literally starving to death with limited
bait fish to sustain the strong stocks. I'm sure many of you have
caught 42" and 44" fish that weigh 23-25 lbs? Just 10 years ago that
was nearly a 30 + lb fish. That concerns me just as much and it is
something we at OTW look at very closely. Yes, commercial fishing has
taken it's toll on bait fish, but that is not the entire story regarding
the dangerously low bait fish counts.

Finally, consider this; I am lucky enough to work in the industry that
allows me to talk, write, speak, you name it, about fishing. My
livelihood is derived from the fact that we in New England have such a
vast and diverse fishery. If I am not a good steward of our fishery,
not only have I lost my passion, I've lost the best job I ever had.
Give me a little credit guys and let's work together. I firmly believe
there is plenty of room to run a tournament that will not adversely
impact the stocks..

Sincerely,

Chris Megan
Publisher
On The Water

Mike
I have to admit I mirror your thoughts about fishing in your above post. Could not have said it any better if I type it myself. I too have never considered the SB to be something special. It’s always just been another fish to catch and I too enjoy them as much as the next guy, but I also have no problems keeping my limit when I fish. Fishing is about eating and my family and I certainly enjoy each and every type fillet that makes it to the table. Be it ground fish or game.

Karl
I certainly understand your comments about the accuracy of data that’s collected. I can’t comment on what people tell surveyors, what I can comment on, within the reports equations are correction factors to bring error within the data into a usable calculation. Is it 100% accurate? No. Is it reasonable? Yes. It’s science, and the type it is ends up being a very well calculated guesstimate. And a lot of decision makers heavily rely on it. If you please, I am in no way trying to defend it, or to convince anybody to its validity; I personally give it its due credit.

There has been a ton of great points brought up in this discussion, especially about other derby’s, one of which came to my mind, (not sure if it was mentioned) was the Shark Tournament on the Vineyard. Pretty useless fish kill in the grand scheme of things, yet not many jumping up and down about putting an end to that one. People’s passion about the striped ones is plainly evident. At times a bit over stated maybe but none the less, there is a very vocal group of bass fishermen that seem to sing the loudest all the time. And from what I have seen it’s always the favorable and politically correct C+R guys.
I have been trying my best to understand and maybe side with the majority on the board about the aggregate catch numbers. I just can’t. This may be a very unpopular statement I just don’t believe that this derby harms the bass stocks, and the keeping of fish that are caught doesn’t really bother me either. So long as the fish do not go to waste. I guess amongst reasonable men there is always room for debate. Big Dave

To that end, state biologists from CT to MA have studied this more than many of us and have determined that two fish a day at 28" can be harvested throughout the entire season without harming the year classes.
I'd love someone to find a source for this. I simply can't believe that's how they estimate the rec quota as he states. Mathmatically it simply does not compute.

-spence

Thank You for your answer Dave.

This is a great thread/discussion. If it ever ends I`m printing it out for the info. scrap book.

Megan`s letter sounded like they were going to try to improve the format for this year? Did I read it right? My comprehension is temporarily at a low level...I hope its temporary :D .

Will they have separate surf and boat categories I wonder.

Great reading,
Mike

Flap ,I don't want to highjack what has turned into a most excellent discussion and I don't know about ...Invariably leading people or ....what they might reasonably infer or ...what someone might have supported.

I can tell you three things that I know for sure Bob Pond was concerned about

he was definitely concerned about the run off of fertilizer into the Chesapeake Bay system and in particular that that run off extended way up into Cental Pennsylvania and Lancaster County where he could make little headway in convincing people concerned about their religion and culture that they should reduce their potential crop sizes by using less ferilizer to save some fish with stripes.

He was also concerned with possibly relocating fish to try to establish spawning areas in other places besides the Chesepeake bay and Hudson River ( I believe he actually transported fish to the CT river but I'm a little fuzzy on that memory)

He also was in favor of Catch and Release as evidenced by the fact that he would always let me know that his people would be glad to rig my poppers with single tail hooks instead of the standard trebles (if I wanted) to make it easier to practice Catch and Release .

These are facts from which people can invariably be lead or reasonably infer whayever they want.

So what you are saying in this last part, if I may be so bold as to assume this, is that Bob Pond, who developed a fish catching bait as devastating on bass that he named it the Atom, was advocating C&R because he, like Robert Oppenhiemer, who developed the real A-Bomb, felt a touch shall we dare say, guilty, of creating such a powerful weapon? Hmmmm.......

Anyway, talked to the magazine today and some changes might occur. As C. M. says in his e-mail. Irresponsible they are not and will not be but as some wise old bird said before, "You can't please everybody". Human nature being what it is there will always be critics. Hopefully this will put some minds at ease. Now I got to hit the cellar cause I got loads o' plugs to finish. Two weeks and counting.

I had a great talk with Chris Megan at the MSBA Expo and he told me that they are very concerned what there readers think, and want the best for the fisheries, access, and all together a possitive out look, I am sure after this talk we had (he listened to everything I had to say and seemed to care) they only want the best for all. the fishery is strong and I think if they raise the catch to 40" and over and one fish per week get rid of the points/clubs, make it individual contest it will be alot better. I wish we could figure out a catch and release like the Bassmasters tournament with livewells and all. So I believe that they don't want to lose fatefull readers and they always need new readers, it is just business

I said it on page 2 and I think his letter say's it all

I'm glad Chris and OTW are concerned about constructive input. They're smart - without support from their patrons they have a financial disaster.
But lets remember - its not whether the bass can take the pressure of another tournament - that's never been the question here.

The concern here is whether the final score for the Striper Cup will be
3000 pounds to 2500 pounds when it could just as well be 300 pounds to 250. Both sets of numbers determine a winner - but the lower numbers are much more conservative and ethical in this day and age.
I wish them luck.

DZ

Considering reports from previous years about what has been found in large Striped Basses stomachs do you think they will allow using 9 to 13 " Stripers for bait?

doesn't state law currently allow ALL recreational fisherman to take 2 fish at 28" PER DAY???

i only ask this question b/c the rules for this tournament allow fisherman who register to weigh 2 fish PER WEEK. that would be less then the state allows, right?

if you have a beef, take it up with the state, not a fine publication like 'on the water'. i am proud to say i am a subscriber who enjoys each and every issue.

i say thank you to the editors, keep it up.

I was in touch with Gene Bourque, Ed. of OTW yesterday and he confirmed what Chris Megan said in his email to the site - they are reviewing the rules due to the adverse comments made here and in other places. Also, mentioned any changes would be posted to their website by week's end.

Krispy //
you stated that you want to how the other surf sharpies will be doing ///

whatever it takes // you,ll never know where or how the fish was caught [if] it was caught /////
:
Clammer, I was talking about supposed sharpies, internet heroes and bait shop barneys :wall:
And "other surf sharpies" implies I am one

I was in touch with Gene Bourque, Ed. of OTW yesterday and he confirmed what Chris Megan said in his email to the site - they are reviewing the rules due to the adverse comments made here and in other places. Also, mentioned any changes would be posted to their website by week's end.
Good for them. I am glad they are reconsidering some of the rules seeing that they were interested in some of the public comment. The letter by Chris Megahn is encouraging and we'll see how it shakes out - good to see they are listening AND flexible :btu:

As for "Adverse Comments" made here and elsewhere, while I can't speak for much elsewhere beyond what I have read, the significant majority of the conversation here was good debate. Sure, a few people got a little, uhh, riled up, but that happens when you have nearly 200 replies and 3500 views in 3 days... But so far this has been good discussion.

I have seen discussion on this topic on a few sources that aren't widely public and they voice similar (and some more critical) comments on the current format...

Dennis put it best about the club "points" system needing to be addressed. Still encourage the club competition but bring the overall impact down to more reasonable levels.

I applaude OTW that they are investigating this a bit more... Look forward to seeing what the rule tweaks are...

{K}

what I meant is how are you {;really] gonna know ??/


did he catch the fish ---ie fish market

was it caught from boat or shore

was it caught in the time frame ============================= freeze it until the [right] time ...

seen it all before // :wave:

Oh yeah, I hear ya :skulz: But we'll see who does well consistently every month. :wave:

seen it all before // :wave:[/QUOTE]
Years ago the commercial rod and reel guys would freeze the bass they caught a couple of days before the season opened and then hit the co-ops in P-Town and Chatham like gangbusters on opening day.

{K}

what I meant is how are you {;really] gonna know ??/


did he catch the fish ---ie fish market

was it caught from boat or shore

was it caught in the time frame ============================= freeze it until the [right] time ...

seen it all before // :wave:

Uh, the real question here is, Mike, how do you know about all the "shady" ways to win? Come on Mikey, fess up. You seem to be in possesion of a lot of this type of knowledge.:wave: :spin: :laughs: :hf1: :usd: :jump1:

What I like most about the discussion here is that most everyone actually read the rules before they expressed their opinion.

I wish I could say the same about some other websites :rollem:

i could see OTW awarding club points for the weight pins, ie 1 point for a 30 lb. pin, 3 for a forty lb. pin and ten for a fifty. The downside is that this would encourage the killing of the trophy fish, the upside would be less pressure to bring in the 34 inch fish for the club total. Again, not perfect, but....
I am finding myself in the camp of Big Dave in regards to keeping fish. I have stated before that I feel the SB stock is in good shape. I also started a thread called A Different Point of view that was from the perspective of the commercial lobstermen and how the lack of food for SB has drastically affected their livelihood. http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=28539&highlight=point+view

Question: Club competition for both boaters and surfcasters as one
group ?

If so, it may not matter where the bass were caught for the total point system. The club with the most boats will tally higher points then surfcasters but their expenses are higher.

Hope this all works for the better for whatever that may be.

If so, it may not matter where the bass were caught for the total point system. The club with the most boats will tally higher points then surfcasters but their expenses are higher.
Probably by an order of magnitude at least.

An interesting twist...divide the poundage in striper by the cost to catch :hee:

-spence

Clammer, I was talking about supposed sharpies, internet heroes and bait shop barneys :wall:
And "other surf sharpies" implies I am one
what the heck is a bait shop barney:confused:

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave
It's pretty clear that you simply didn't show up for finishing school.

-spence

thanks for noticing spence...how could tell ??? i just think some of the squirrels have lost too many of there nuts..back to yooooou spence ?

girls all has been said ...u got the nod from otw,s publisher and staff about tweekin the rules + regs hope everybodys good w/ that ...now ladies lets put up or shut up ,,in or out ???yea or nae..lets put the baby to bed ....but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave

NO, it's not "put up or shut up" and leming on over to the sign up sheet. Scuttlebutt has an announcement later this week on OTW's website, a lot of us will wait to see what that is and make a decision afterward. Some people already made up their mind one way or another.

but if your out your opinion means $hit to me ...and if your in ,, may the better fisherman win....good luck ...dave That's just priceless. I just don't know what to say. Damn world is gonna end if people don't agree with you...

john ,,,stick it ....your diaper ,been changed .... now go play with the rest of the childern.....john listening to your opininon truely means $hit to me ....go hug a tree..or better yet kiss my b-ass.... luv ya....

John R-- thank you, for having some balls & conviction as you run this great Site! If anything I thought you were very gracious & bending over backward on this thread, even to be understanding & encouraging to OTW & this poorly- conceived Tourney. No more Tourney- bound truck-loads of Fishers Is. Bass necessary in this World/ 2006!

Funny part about Stiff Tip is not that he missed Finishing school... (We figured that already)... But, rather: that he is a Writer?? :spin:

Seems any Sixth grade English teacher would fail him! He must have one heck of an Editor over there! :cputin:

Enough of trying to recruit John R & leading his flock to a very insensitively- designed Tourney, S.T.! Let OTW make the sensible changes necessary, and then you'll have to "sell" & cajole us much less! We here care about encouraging the needless killing of Stripers for man- hood purposes here on this Site-- titled "Striped-Bass.com" last I checked!! :rtfm:

john ,,,stick it ....your diaper ,been changed .... now go play with the rest of the childern.....john listening to your opininon truely means $hit to me ....go hug a tree..or better yet kiss my b-ass.... luv ya....

Real good, just continuing to impress here Stiffy. If you don't like it, chose the exit door. Are you done?

john ,,,stick it ....your diaper ,been changed .... now go play with the rest of the childern.....john listening to your opininon truely means $hit to me ....go hug a tree..or better yet kiss my b-ass.... luv ya....

WoW!:hs:

And as always John you have taken the high road:kewl:

LeCounts mentioned the editor. The editor finally got around to addressing the spots issue, timely for sure. How many months after?:sleeps:

Dave?

ST ,don't candy-coat it.Tell us what you REALLY mean:shocked:

Geez Dave--to think your publisher said that I'm the knucklehead in these parts :rollem:

I think Stiffy was joking a bit, he got his lessons from BM.

And you are right about his grammer

is this thread done yet? I think it's cooked:bo:

I think Stiffy was joking a bit, he got his lessons from BM.

I would hope so but it sure doesn't look that way...

you should hear how he talks

:hidin:

you should hear how he talks

:hidin:

I know - that's why I called him a funny bastart - very entertaining...

Steve I hope that,s in jest ========cuz ya really don,t want me on the %$%$%$%$ side ><.,.,

Steve ...if ya listen to anyone that fished back then [[all the contest ]] at least that actually knew what fishing was & ventured out of the bar ========I,m sure they will have no trouble providing examples ;;;:cheers:

We are anxious to hear the revised , fish friendly rules. I hope the new rules will enable us to participate without reservation. I hope nobody minds that we actually read the old rules and will read the new rules too before committing. Seems like a reasonable approach.

Anyway , I'm surprised at the tone towards John. You should be thanking him for the chance you had to express yourself freely on this subject.

john wake up i,m pullin your chain....but the truth will set you free...its a fishin derby ment for the pleasure of fishing,,and friendship of the striper cup enteries

john wake up i,m pullin your chain....but the truth will set you free...
Yea John, if you wern't so uninformed you would have gotten the joke.

-spence

guys i got to go back to the home now ,, the doctor said i,ve been out long enouph ,and i need my meds,,,,cause i,m going to attack Russia ,,tomorrow .......

:eyes:

guys i got to go back to the home now ,, the doctor said i,ve been out long enouph ,and i need my meds,,,,cause i,m going to attack Russia ,,tomorrow .......

For that, I HAVE A PLAN :tooth:

Stiffy - with the possible exceptions of Slip & Flap, I don't think anyone read that as jest - but if so, OK with me. Somethings do not translate well over the Interfriekinnet...

Thanks

Steve I hope that,s in jest ========cuz ya really don,t want me on the %$%$%$%$ side ><.,.,

Steve ...if ya listen to anyone that fished back then [[all the contest ]] at least that actually knew what fishing was & ventured out of the bar ========I,m sure they will have no trouble providing examples ;;;:cheers:
Mike, come on do you think I am that stupid? Check your pm's

For that, I HAVE A PLAN :tooth:

Stiffy - with the possible exceptions of Slip & Flap, I don't think anyone read that as jest - but if so, OK with me. Somethings do not translate well over the Interfriekinnet...

Thanks

His doc stopped the prednazone and the fire is back so he's a little testy shall we say. Plus he unwrapped the Ol "Desperate One" and the riggers are going on and the new GPS/MOVING MAP thingie and when that happens, ya know complicated electronics and such, it can get a little weird for him. I am sure he is better now and of course being one of my best friends I can always just Bitch/Dope slap him back to reality ( what a concept):D

STEVE WTF I need a ladder & the a pulley to get to the top of it to smack you top-side-of-the-head...:kewl: :angel:

This feels better now :angel:


Would any one pay a fee to see Flap and Stiffy argue?

Be like shock and awe :eyes:


Was Dave from Worcester to Flap?

This feels better now :angel:


Would any one pay a fee to see Flap and Stiffy argue?

Be like shock and awe :eyes:


Was Dave from Worcester to Flap?

Yeah can't you tell. Wusta boys is all animals!:zup:

i,m back??? i feel better now ? doctor told ,not to take all my pills at the same time , for the week , i thougt it would save some time .. to take then once a week..insted of every day ???? hay i,m i repeting my self again ???? you know i havent been the same sense woodstock,, when a tall "dude" w/ no cloths on said to me ,,,hay man u thirsty ?????take a big sip of this lemon aid and sit here we,ll talk awild ....boy that was a good party.....i think??? did i say that allready??????wheres my slippers....damm dog ..what was i doing?????where i,m i ???

did this happen at woodstock or was it really in P-town?

if any one wants to know i,m not from woooster, originally ???i was born on a distant planet called krypton...and i wear this red suit w/ a cape.. but please dont tell anyone.....up up and away..........

Super Captain Cupcake?

:hee:


By the way....that was an ingenious way to kill that thread