Black Salties , goldfish like , live bait will be available in bait shops this spring. They are hardy fresh water fish that can live up to 2 hours in salt water. From what I'm told they can be taken to the shore in a bucket with some 02 tabs in it and of course a live well in a boat. They come in different sizes, some big for stripers and smaller ones for fluke. The big ones (5 in or so) will be about 1.50 just about the same as an eel. I know they work cuz a 50 lb striper was taken on one last year.

SSSSSHHHH!!!!!!!


:hidin:

www.blacksalty.com


they are the new thing...even though they caught on strong last year

Rigged Salties are $11 :D

I am a fan of farm raised bait, but I have a concern with black salties. Won't be a preoblem in the salt, but what happens to a freshwater lake when a bunch of these come off the hook or get dumped... I would like it if they came with a self destruct button. :skulz:

just saw they are illegal in freshwater in Ca and FL...

Why not just become a better plugger? If eels get banned, will people start live lining garden snakes?

If eels get banned, will people start live lining garden snakes?


What do you mean start? Also Black Racers are bigger and blacker :laugha:

I am a fan of farm raised bait, but I have a concern with black salties. Won't be a preoblem in the salt, but what happens to a freshwater lake when a bunch of these come off the hook or get dumped... I would like it if they came with a self destruct button. :skulz:

I'm with you on this one. Too many "exotics" (plants and fish) are really causing havoc. Everyone...PLEASE use common sense and be careful!

I'm with you on this one. Too many "exotics" (plants and fish) are really causing havoc. Everyone...PLEASE use common sense and be careful!

It'll be OK the snakeheads will take care of them.:hihi:

Why not just become a better plugger? If eels get banned, will people start live lining garden snakes?


I think Garden snakes is a bit of a stretch....However I dont care how "good" a plugger anyone is, you will never beat Live bait. Thats the one hurdle a hunk of plastic or wood will never get over.Toss a live well in the truck, catch some scup and put a hook in there nose=Big bass...

Toss a live well in the truck, catch some scup and put a hook in there nose=Big bass...
Yup, they work, only thing is, they have to be 10.5" to keep which is fine with me, just trim the fins so the bass can suck 'em in easier.

I heard that they may not be legal in MA? Sounds like an accident waiting to happen to me. Once they get into fresh water they could become a problem. And rest assured some yo-yo is going to dump a bucket load into fresh water.

I know nothing about Black Salties but why aren't they sterilized during the fish farming process? This would solve the problem of them being released into freshwater bodies of water.

I know nothing about Black Salties but why aren't they sterilized during the fish farming process? This would solve the problem of them being released into freshwater bodies of water.

They may be, for gods sake its a Shiner...Lighten up! What is tossed in freshwater will be sucked up by largemouths. Thats all it is a Shiner, How many Shiners are baught at baitshops each season and tossed into the water? Whos knows where the bait supplier got them? and in what type of water conditions they were in?

I love the video on that website! It's like, yeah no chit a largemouth is going to eat it! :rotf2:

im with you #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& whats the big deal with these shiners being in fresh water? Maybe I missed some fine print but more bait fish sounds like a good thing to me. Hell lets farm some pogies and fatten up the cows:)

Its just something else to cry about, its a shiner plain and simple, raised in the USA and just like any other shiner there is.........

Some use them,Some don't ....I WILL USE THEM..............THEY WORK................

Some use them,Some don't ....I WILL USE THEM..............THEY WORK................

Good give me all ur lures. :hihi:

We went over this last year, Unless the fish and game had made changes. They are not legal to possese in MA and I doubt if they are legal in RI.

We went over this last year, Unless the fish and game had made changes. They are not legal to possese in MA and I doubt if they are legal in RI.


Not Legal? Since when did they put a ban on Shiners?:confused:

I know of a tackle shop in RI that sold them last year......so i would say that they are legal

Wildwood outfitters will be carying them starting next week i beleive.

i had a saltwater grade one in my hand today and while i was impressed, i have reservations... they arent that big, so even a large schoolie can snarf them up, while a large shad or scup will cull out the smaller bass who can not fit them in their maw.

They are not a shiner.

Alls I got to say is Tom's in Middleboro was fined over $50,000 for importing into MA.
It is up to the person to know his law of importing them into his state.
I'm not going to get into it any further. Look it up before you do it.

They are not a shiner.

Correct.

They're in the goldfish family and if allowed to grow can become quite large like any of the other species in the goldfish family.They're very hardy,the fact that they can live in saltwater for up to two hours demonstrates that.This is also what makes them easy to raise.

Letting non-native species propagate,especially in a closed freshwater environment,is never a good idea.You can never know what the resulting consequences could be.White perch in Moosehead lake,zebra mussels in the Great Lakes etc.These fish were designed and developed in a lab and have a patent pending.They're non-native everywhere on the planet.

Out of all the concientious local fisherman who'll use them only in saltwater there'll always be someone who'll want his own private stock and'll drop a few dozen in the local pond.

Now with all that being said they haven't posed any problem whereever they've been used so far and may very well be the ticket to allow those who fish live bait to continue to do so and will take the pressure off the native species and allow them to rebound.

Come on. if you guys can't catch a decent bass on a Danny or a Surf Hog you should hang it up. You still have eels and Scup

I talked to dave at Ocean State tackle yesterday and he said they will be carrying them starting next week.

Just got off the phone with the division of fisheries and wildlife. They said the only way that fish in allowed in MA is DEAD.
Any person having posession of it will be subject to fines and jail.
It is a nonnative species and is not allowed period.
Any person selling the fish in the state will be fined severly & or jail and licences suspended.
They said that selling it for saltwater does not make a differance. It is the fact that it could be introduced to the freshwater lakes and streams.

Hi Guys,

Lurked here for a while, never posted as didn't feel appropriate with my profession while not being a sponsor. Like the information exchanged, and the obvious passion you all share for fishing.

That being said, I want to clear up a few things in regards to the Black Salty. These fish are farm raised members of the goldfish family, and were developed in aquaculture ponds in Arkansas, not in a lab. They have not been genetically altered in any way, they have simply been acclimated to salt water immersion over a 7 year process, and the heartiest specimens were then bred and retained. They stay alive in salt water up to 2 hours, then will die from overexposure to the salinity. I introduced a scientist at the RI DEM to Neil Anderson, owner of the minnow farm, and the 2 of them exchanged information including scientific workups, stats, and pertinent info. DEM then gave permission for them to be shipped into the state for retail sale. No baitshops sold them last year, Myself and 1 other person in RI used them on a trial basis only.
They are legal in many states already, even for freshwater useage. Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, and Mississippi all allow them for dual purpose bait, and they have many more tributaries, ponds, lakes, and other impoundments then New England combined. They have had absolutely no problems with these fish altering in any way the current biological distribution of native species, as they have a tough time getting a foothold in any body of water where a predatory fish lives. CA and FL have allowed the use as saltwater bait while prohibiting fresh water useage, for whatever reasons, but obviously it is possible to get legal status as saltwater bait while not freshwater, as precedence in these states shows.
These baits will be available starting this weekend at Wildwood distributors, Ocean State Tackle, and Sam's Bait and Tackle, while many others are making necessary preparations to have them available in coming weeks. They are an extremely effective alternative to wild harvested bait, and for those of you with doubts as to their effectiveness on large fish, I took a 52.8 pound striper on one in late Oct. , a 49 pound yellowfin out on the edge in Sept. as well as numerous mahi that same trip, and countless jumbo sea bass all year long, along with many other stripers from schoolie up to 38 pounds.
Currently the magnum size of 7-8 inch baits are in limited supply, but by July will be readily available as the farm has devoted a few ponds to get them to that size and even bigger by then. The inshore size is a sure fire bait for sea bass and fluke, and stripers will readily take all 3 sizes. Anyone with any other questions or reservations can contact Anderson farms direct at www.blacksalty.com, or PM me and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.
For those of you concerned that these fish will ruin any freshwater areas, rest assured that extensive sales in freshwater rich states has yielded nothing but positive results. Think of it this way.... how many legally sold Koi or goldfish are transacted in RI each year, and how many ponds do you know of where monster goldfish lurk awaiting your every cast???

What a great post. Thank God there is a voice of reason.

I understand that the non-availability or high price of native baits make us search for alternatives but think about the potential for problems with these Black Salties.

Thirty years ago someone said "I'm going to plant this pretty Kudzo in my backyard, what's the harm"

In the 1920's, someone said "Lets let these 10 Starlings fly around Central Park"

"This Water Hyacnth is so pretty" "There's too much Water Hyacnth, lets release some Nutria"

So, while they die in saltwater after a couple hours, in fresh water, given time and perhaps the perfect set of circumstances, they may completely decimate native populations. Ecosystems are balanced things and small things can cause problems.

The removal of wolves in Yellowstone Park in the 1940's led to the erosion of river banks and trout breeding problems.

Throw plugs, they die.

...

Thirty years ago someone said "I'm going to plant this pretty Kudzo in my backyard, what's the harm"

In the 1920's, someone said "Lets let these 10 Starlings fly around Central Park"

...
Throw plugs, they die.

Actually Kudzo was planted by the highway depts to control erosion...

Great post CaptDom! I cant wait to use these things! very exited:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: Livewell.....Boat.....Bassssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssss

Basswipe, you hit the nail on the head! CaptDom, thank you for allaying my fears of non-native species over taking bodies of water.
Too many horror shows have come to be by bringing in species that are not part of the eco system and having them destroy the native species through predation or even simple competition for food.

real fishermen use artificials :hihi:

Real fisherman like Block Island Jeff use their bare hands...

Dom... good to hear Sammy is carrying these.... congrats on the 50 last year... I live on that spot/area in May-June... never gave it a thought in October....

Hey Bryan,

Thanks for the congrat wishes, You probably threw countless casts there all year, I was just in the right place right time. That fish had 2 trailers with it, so keep at it later in the year, you might get 1 of his buddies! There was a big run of larger fish that whole week, I got mine the night before that big noreaster.

Navy Chief, I understand your concerns, but this fish would have an extremely difficult time establishing itself in any body of water where a predatory fish resides. There are situations where non native species can actually benefit an ecosystem. Take for the prime example, the Large and Small mouth basses. These are actually members of the sunfish family, and due to their popularity, were introduced as non native species all over the world, with great success. The striped bass has been introduced to many larger freshwater impoundments with great success as well, and these are predatory, top of the food chain fish. People need to understand that man has already imbalanced the natural distribution of ecosystems on land and in water, so almost all habitats have some sort of non native species in it. There is no way we can go back to the way it was before man meddled, but we can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem. These fish would only help supply forage if by some dramatic circumstances were introduced, whether purposely or by accident into fresh water.( A scenario that in my opinion would be very very unlikely)

This fish has been used in many states with freshwater bodies for some time now, and it has only improved the fishing. Recreational fishing is a 60 billion $$ plus economy with well over 40 million participants. These fish will take great pressure off a strained baitfish population, a good thing as pogies, eels, and herring are in serious trouble. :hee:

real fishermen use artificials :hihi:

And live bait fisherman catch fish:rotf2:

& country western woman are awesome :lm:

& country western woman are awesome :lm:
Ride 'em cowboy..:nopain:

Nebe - that comment is worthless without pictures .. .

I had sent off an email to Mass fish and wildlife. They replied that the bait fish was illegal for "use as a freshwater baitfish". They then stated that I should check with the Division of marine fisheries about importing and sale for saltwater baitfish. I am still waiting for a reply.

You may not use that baitfish for freshwater fishing in Massachusetts. If you want to import and sell them as saltwater baitfish, you need to contact the DIvision of Marine FIsheries for permits and guidance. I will include them in this email.


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-----Original Message-----
From: William [mailto:mitsdog@verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:40 PM
To: Wildlife, Mass (FWE)
Subject: Baitfish


I was wondering if this baitfish is legal for sale by shops in Massachusetts. I want to get my local shops to carry them; they seem to be a good substitute for live herring. They were carried by tackle shops in RI last year.





http://www.blacksalty.com/index.html









Thanks,



William Mitsiopoulos.

I too contacted MA DFW, and they said that the only restrictions they could find were specifically as a FRESHWATER BAIT. The gentleman I spoke with said he could not find any regulation which prohibited possession or use in saltwater. It is legal to possess goldfish in the state of MA, so simple possesion will not get you into any trouble, that much is certain. We are waiting to get written documentation describing any legalities for saltwater use.

Hi Guys,
Think of it this way.... how many legally sold Koi or goldfish are transacted in RI each year, and how many ponds do you know of where monster goldfish lurk awaiting your every cast???

Excerpt below from 2004, not from Rhody.

"The Indiana Post-Tribune is reporting that the state's Spectacle Lake is infested with, of all things - goldfish (Cyprinus auratus)...This is actually the second time in fifteen years that Spectacle Lake has been overrun with goldfish,...Goldfish can destroy bass nests when they kick up bottom sediments. When they reach critical population levels, they can also drop the dissolved oxygen content of the water to a point that is tolerable to them, but deadly to bass..."

The problem is not isolated to Indiana and not limited to goldfish. It is also well documented. The impact can't be measured by how many goldfish are stealing your bait... although it might impact the #'s of other fish you catch.

The lake on which my inlaws have a cottage in CT has many huge goldfish. How many? Who knows? Their impact on the established populations in the lake? Not been studied ( at least not published...), but take a swim and you will see em.

Hopefully Capt Dom is correct. However, I wonder how long they have been used in the south and who has evaluated the population of salties and impacts of such pop. on ecology of the bodies of freshwater. How can it be said that there has been no impact? I could go on about this all day, but I'll stop. It just seems like there is a potentially large and ultimately unnecessary risk.

Just my $0.02...

"There is no way we can go back to the way it was before man meddled, but we can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

Can you honestly say that EXTENSIVE knowledge has been gained over the last 6-7 years that these fish have been 'developed' to come to a solid, definitive answer that these fish won't displace an ecosystem? Even though man may have altered what was native prior to us messing with it does not make it ok to do so presently. Why not preserve what we have and prevent any further impacts by not messing with our ecosystem at all? We already know the issues that have come up, why even entertain this. Preserve is the key, not introducing other species to manipulate an ecosystem that we feel is 'flourishing' with our idea of good species. I think people should start re-thinking and putting their efforts into re-habilitating rivers, ponds, whatever to promote what thrives there naturally. Maybe what is there wasn't native 1000 years ago, but it certainly isn't going to do us any good by changing what is here now any more.


"We can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

You could achieve this easily...go fishing in your own aquarium.

"This fish has been used in many states with freshwater bodies for some time now, and it has only improved the fishing. Recreational fishing is a 60 billion $$ plus economy with well over 40 million participants. These fish will take great pressure off a strained baitfish population, a good thing as pogies, eels, and herring are in serious trouble."

I find it ironic that your statement of how these fish have improved fishing is supported by economic $$$ numbers. This is why we are where we are today. Man will use/abuse any resource available on this earth to make a $ and can justify it because of the $$$ to be had in doing so. Stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of natural ecosystems. Yes they have been manipulated by us. No they won't be any better if we keep messing with them. ANY non-native fish introduced into an ecosystem WILL displace that ecosystem. There is no way around it. Those fish have to eat and take up space. They will have an impact and will effect other organisms within that system, one way or the other.

Seems to me like there is $$$ behind this motive. I'm not buying it...I'll second the vote for plugs.

OMG....All this over a goldfish.Use the damn things in Saltwater and dont worry about it...To much time thinking and not enough time fishing.....Of all things people are "concerned" over using a golfish as bait..JUST FISH.....................

Just my $0.02...

"There is no way we can go back to the way it was before man meddled, but we can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

Can you honestly say that EXTENSIVE knowledge has been gained over the last 6-7 years that these fish have been 'developed' to come to a solid, definitive answer that these fish won't displace an ecosystem? Even though man may have altered what was native prior to us messing with it does not make it ok to do so presently. Why not preserve what we have and prevent any further impacts by not messing with our ecosystem at all? We already know the issues that have come up, why even entertain this. Preserve is the key, not introducing other species to manipulate an ecosystem that we feel is 'flourishing' with our idea of good species. I think people should start re-thinking and putting their efforts into re-habilitating rivers, ponds, whatever to promote what thrives there naturally. Maybe what is there wasn't native 1000 years ago, but it certainly isn't going to do us any good by changing what is here now any more.


"We can certainly use knowledge, science, and responsibility to stregthen certain habitats by introducing forage species and predator species that will flourish without dramatically altering or harming in any way that particular ecosystem."

You could achieve this easily...go fishing in your own aquarium.

"This fish has been used in many states with freshwater bodies for some time now, and it has only improved the fishing. Recreational fishing is a 60 billion $$ plus economy with well over 40 million participants. These fish will take great pressure off a strained baitfish population, a good thing as pogies, eels, and herring are in serious trouble."

I find it ironic that your statement of how these fish have improved fishing is supported by economic $$$ numbers. This is why we are where we are today. Man will use/abuse any resource available on this earth to make a $ and can justify it because of the $$$ to be had in doing so. Stop thinking in terms of money and start thinking in terms of natural ecosystems. Yes they have been manipulated by us. No they won't be any better if we keep messing with them. ANY non-native fish introduced into an ecosystem WILL displace that ecosystem. There is no way around it. Those fish have to eat and take up space. They will have an impact and will effect other organisms within that system, one way or the other.

Seems to me like there is $$$ behind this motive. I'm not buying it...I'll second the vote for plugs.

Parker, you are obviously dedicated to conservation and preservation, for that I commend you. However, you are assuming that just because these fish are now available to the public that they will be purposefully introduced to a body of fresh water, or if so, will dramatically effect resident populations therein. The same threat has existed since the very first non native fish became available to the public in petshops and baitshops countrywide and abroad as many exotics have been available for a long time; so yes, the inherent threat exists with this, and many, many other species. However, what would these fish mess up in an isolated case where they thrived, the anglers ability to catch other "gamefish", which may be non native species themselves?

I'm not sure what is ironic about my mentioning of the recreational fishing industry and the amount of anglers/money involved. Money makes the world go round, and is an underlying issue with almost any topic concievable today. I mentioned it because an economic gain in todays world is in my opinion a good thing, plain and simple, especially if it also takes pressure off a "natural" species stock that has serious problems in todays world..

As far as fishing in a body of water that has been manipulated by man, there are not many ponds or lakes available to the public that don't have an introduced specie in it. Largemouth and smallmouth bass have been introduced worldwide, and have even inter bred with other species in those bodies of water, yet most would view that as a positive. I don't need to fish in my own aquarium to achieve this, just go to my local pond or stream and catch one of the many available stocked, or introduced fish. I brought up man meddling because it is a fact that I, nor anyone else, can now change. However, I do find it interesting that a recreational angler such as yourself who now benefits from man meddling, i.e. striped bass recovery, trout hatcheries, largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, could have such a problem with it. I am not saying that a problem couldn't arise, but in my mind is miniscule in comparison with the positives that come with the very small negative attached to the Black Salty.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect yours. However, the fact remains that this fish will be used in RI, and hopefully responsibly by all those purchasing them. I would never want to see a species destroy or irrevocably change any of our bodies of water, yet I see only benefits from these baits, not problems, whether my stance is founded in economic or personal reasons is a mute issue.

In salt water, I don't see an issue. These fish WILL die in a few hours (Hopefully sooner:) )

In fresh water I might be able to see how they MIGHT cause a problem. That's MIGHT, MAYBE, etc...

But for the salt, IF they take pressure off of native bait I say :claps: :claps: :claps:

bravo parker650! It is amazing to me how some can be so ignorant and claim its just a fish. Apparently they have no idea the ramifications that non native species can have on ecosystems.. Fish it in the slat and ban it in fresh, easy enuf!

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, how would you feel if you found out that black salties only preyed upon eels when they were in freshwater- further depleting the american eel stocks?

Like others have sai, most nonnative species get introduced by people who buy a fish from the pet store, not realizing it will eat every other fish in the tank, or that it will grow to enormous proportions. They then release them into a pond, cause god forbidyou should toss it downthe toilet or into the garden.
It's very simple.

Angler, "I'd like some Black salties please."

Bait Proprieter, "Going for some monster stripers eh?"

Angler, "Well I was planning on using them in goldfish pond for some lunker largemouth."

Bait Proprieter, " Sorry I can only sell these for use as saltwater baitfish, they are illegal for freshwater, may I suggest these monster shinersfor your type of fishing."


The purchaser has been warned.

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, how would you feel if you found out that black salties only preyed upon eels when they were in freshwater- further depleting the american eel stocks?

Your reaching, give me a break.Goldfish eating eels now.......:hs: :hs:

ok, lets say they feed on the same things the eels do, but multiply rapidly and eat all the feed..........

I did a little research...here is a Black Salty after 3 months in a tidal river.

:hidin:

-spence

ok, lets say they feed on the same things the eels do, but multiply rapidly and eat all the feed..........

Lets say you should be on someones couch.You have issues that are beyond me.......seek help........I dont think that deep, and to be honest There are more important things to worry about..Like how big a livewell I need:jump:

I did a little research...here is a Black Salty after 3 months in a tidal river.

:hidin:

-spence


:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Hi Guys,

Lurked here for a while, never posted as didn't feel appropriate with my profession while not being a sponsor. Like the information exchanged, and the obvious passion you all share for fishing.

That being said, I want to clear up a few things in regards to the Black Salty. These fish are farm raised members of the goldfish family, and were developed in aquaculture ponds in Arkansas, not in a lab. They have not been genetically altered in any way, they have simply been acclimated to salt water immersion over a 7 year process, and the heartiest specimens were then bred and retained.

Depends on your definition of a lab.A laboratory is a controlled environment and the aquaculture ponds of Anderson that these fish were developed in certainly meet that criteria.They WERE developed in a lab.Also selective breeding IS genetic manipution.

Doesn't matter that they die in slatwater there will always be some moron who'll want his own private stash and will throw some in the local pond/lake.Introducing non-native species in a closed freshwater environment is risky.

But again as I said in my original post so far there have been no problems where these baitfish have been used.I'm neither for or against there use,I'm just saying caution is needed.


Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

Bunker
Scup
cunner
sea bass
shad
mummi
eel
sea robin
snapper

Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

You missed a "/" on the last quote box...

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&..I really think choggie was funnin:scream:

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, my issues are with ignorant people who have no reguard for the enviroment. Anybody who does not take into consideration his actions and how they will affect there surroundings is a simpleton. Someone who would do something that is potentially hazardous to an ecosystem without reguard to the long term effect is an ass. I guess a simple mind will think " how big a livewell I will need" where as the rest of the world may ask " what will my happen if this fish is introduced into an ecosystem and wreaks havoc upon it."
My example of the black salty competing with the american eel was just that, an example of what could happen. A more realistic scenario would be to say these fish become a predator of striped bass eggs in a spawning ground like the susquehanna flats. Without thinking before hand you set yourself up for certain failure.
As for being on someones couch..its ignoramuses like you that may land me there some day. Simple minds like yours drive me insane. The inane drivel reminds me of when I worked with the special olympics. But I guess if we didn't have people who think like you, we wouldn't have anyone to dig ditches.

Depends on your definition of a lab.A laboratory is a controlled environment and the aquaculture ponds of Anderson that these fish were developed in certainly meet that criteria.They WERE developed in a lab.Also selective breeding IS genetic manipution.

Doesn't matter that they die in slatwater there will always be some moron who'll want his own private stash and will throw some in the local pond/lake.Introducing non-native species in a closed freshwater environment is risky.

But again as I said in my original post so far there have been no problems where these baitfish have been used.I'm neither for or against there use,I'm just saying caution is needed.


Btw what's up with quote function?That don't look right.

Okay, if that qualifies for the definition of a lab, so be it. In my minds eye, I picture a lab as a place with test tubes, white lab coats, microscopes, bunson burners, etc., but everyone has their opinions, and I'm not saying yours is incorrect. However, the genes of these fish are not manipulated in any way, but bred to be the heartiest and healthiest they can. Any breeder seeks out the qualities best desired in a certain species, much as horse breeders, dog breeders, etc, would, so I must disagree with your assessment that they are genetically altered. Semantics would be the case here, as genetic manipulation is a very bad way to describe the simple selective breeding to make a species strong, in my opinion. I am agreeing with you wholeheartedly on the need for care with any introduced species to a closed environment, and in no way do I condone or encourage some yahoo to start throwing them enmasse into fresh water, period. I guess in all walks of life there will be differing opinions, I'll have to be satisfied with those that will embrace these fish and use them successfully and responsibly, and hopefully none of the concerns that have been raised here will ever come to pass with Black Saltys or any other fish.

I hope everyone has a good start to the season, I know that the squid run has started, the mackeral are showing, and keepers to 15 pounds have been landed in the bay. Won't be long till we are all occupied with tight lines and fat fish, and can leave the hypothetical debates till winter:rolleyes: ....

Anxiously awaiting #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s rebuttal.:huh:

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, my issues are with ignorant people who have no reguard for the enviroment. Anybody who does not take into consideration his actions and how they will affect there surroundings is a simpleton. Someone who would do something that is potentially hazardous to an ecosystem without reguard to the long term effect is an ass. I guess a simple mind will think " how big a livewell I will need" where as the rest of the world may ask " what will my happen if this fish is introduced into an ecosystem and wreaks havoc upon it."
My example of the black salty competing with the american eel was just that, an example of what could happen. A more realistic scenario would be to say these fish become a predator of striped bass eggs in a spawning ground like the susquehanna flats. Without thinking before hand you set yourself up for certain failure.
As for being on someones couch..its ignoramuses like you that may land me there some day. Simple minds like yours drive me insane. The inane drivel reminds me of when I worked with the special olympics. But I guess if we didn't have people who think like you, we wouldn't have anyone to dig ditches.


Ok so a guy walks into a tackle shop and says "I would like a dozen Black Salties" Clerk says "Sure" Then the guy hesitates, puts his hand to his head, takes a big puff on his pipe, furls his eye brows and says.."Wait a minute there young fella", "before you load one goldfish into that bucket , I have some deep rooted concerns that just became apparent to me in an epifany"

Clerk looks at his comrades and shakes his head "uh-oh".........

Yes sir! the clerk says! "I am afraid to use those goldfish" " In the two seconds I have been here my mind has begun racing with the thought of the ecosystem degrading into the abyss if I dare to hook one of those things, there could be grave imminant danger to the fragile ecosystem,! "because I am an adult, but I have a tendancy to dump untold numbers of baitfish into freshwater areas after I am done fishing" "I cant help myself, Introducing goldfish like baitfishes to these places is an urge I cannot resist" "Therefore I simply cannot purchase these in good faith"........."I lay awake at night with mishevious thoughts and visions of marouding goldfish eating untold numbers of bass eggs on the flats someplace"

Accoring to you the above is how a "normal person thinks" most will not be stupid enough to toss them into fresh water



You know I never dug a ditch, plenty of fence post holes but never a ditch.Simple minds? Please never underestimate the power of the handicap!

I am indeed a savant! A "bass-savant" I have been gifted with the ability to catch large numbers of huge linesides:confused: :confused: My narrow shallow mind tells me Black Salties will catch untold numbers of bass, I can't think beyond that, My livewell is to small, somebody please help me, I need a new livewell, please can you help me out.....I just want to catch fish.


The simple one here is you.........Where in any of my posts did I say "I dont care about the enviroment? I just think a shrink can help you with your goldfish problem....


By the way, people who dig ditches have more respect from me than people who wear a suit and tie and steal money from people..Like big oil.........I know a few guys who put there kids though higher education from digging holes...Hard work. There the real people!You dont measure a man by what he does for a living, you have just offended ditch diggers near and wide:shocked: :shocked:


Go live line a Choggie...................:jump:

I hope everyone has a good start to the season, I know that the squid run has started, the mackeral are showing, and keepers to 15 pounds have been landed in the bay. Won't be long till we are all occupied with tight lines and fat fish, and can leave the hypothetical debates till winter:rolleyes: ....

Yup....
heard the macks were bruisers.... headed out tonight :hidin:

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, you are fooling yourself if you think your enviromentally minded when you fish. You have stated yourself on this forum that if eels were added to the endangered species act, you would still use them and that you are certian there will be a black market for them..

If you were truely an enviro-mental friendly fisherman, you wouldnt use eels at all, but instead you are truely concerned with one thing..I'll let you figure that one out for yourself.

If you care to argue this, answer one question for me..
How many bass and eels did you kill last season??

Its your kind of mentallity that broght on the bass moratorium :hs:

I could go on, but i think you get my point.

Bunker
Scup
cunner
sea bass
shad
mummi
eel
sea robin
snapper

you missed one.........BLAAAACK SAAAAAAAAAAAALTTTTYYYYYYYY!!

OK, so here we go with the name calling, personal disparagements and general crap slinging and it's only March 3rd.
I'm not one of the mods on the Board but I get tired of this stuff real quick. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. NOW PLAY NICE!!!:liquify:

I think everything that needs to be said here has been said. This is just a pissing contest now. I'm locking it down.