View Full Version : Windmill Power may cost twice as much. MUST READ

06-04-2006, 07:51 AM
This morning in the Globe an article that was first published in the New York Times on 5/22/2006 was reprinted. The article was about a cost analysis study paid for by the Koch family of America's Cup fame. It is an extraordinary read and if the assumptions made are true then we could be paying 50 to 100 % more for power from wind mill company. And the power derived by these windmills may not be saleable in a region that has more power than it knows what to do with. This article is on page A15 of the globe. I will type from one paragraph that is especially disturbing: "Furthermore, through skillful lobbying, Cape Wind has managed to avoid federal lease bonus payments, royalties and deposits for demolition upon abandonment of the project, required by the Department of the Interior for all offshore oil and gas prjects to operate in federal waters. This loophole is worth hundreds of millions of dollars." This goes along with what I have been talking about all along. No access to the area during or after construction, after they fall in disrepair it will be too expensive to be fixed, they will end up being left there, and our tax dollars is the only reason that it is even remotely financially feasible.

06-04-2006, 08:17 AM
Doesn't suprise me one bit...hell, the super efficient natural gas fired plant in Tiverton had to shut down because they couldn't make any money!


06-04-2006, 11:57 AM
Anybody have a link?
I am landbound for the w/e yet again!!! Glad I can save all this gas money for fishing this year!!!!

06-04-2006, 12:42 PM
There is no link I can give you, because the article was in the form of a paid advertisement on page A15 of the Boston Globe. It was first publish, possibly as an article in The Wall Street Journal on last May 22nd, which you might be able to locate. I'll check that also. You might also find the article in the link. The article takes up a full half page top to bottom, which must have cost Koch a bundle of do re mi.

06-04-2006, 12:45 PM
Here is the link to the article/advertisement that was in the globe. The link obviously is to SOS.

06-04-2006, 12:47 PM (

06-04-2006, 12:56 PM
That's excellent!!
The math works!!! Who needs 1800 dollars are year extra energy costs?
Interesting that the founder of Cape Wind would not share his cost model with Oxbow
This is a very damaging report from a cost / recovery perspective.
I can only hope that other's read and see this as yet another public fleecing!!!

Thank goodness the wind blows 25 Kts or higher less than 30% of the time. I would never get out for tuna!!!

06-23-2006, 04:13 PM
There's no doubt that both sides are acting strictly in self-interest. The wind people want to make money, the rich people on Martha's Vinyard don't want to sail through/look at windmills. Period. Both sides have oodles of money to buy "experts" to support their views.
But lets make one thing clear; offshore wind power is coming, one way or the other, if not necessarily Cape Wind, but somewhere, and boaters will have to learn to live with it.

Mr. Sandman
06-24-2006, 08:38 AM
It is about money. Moreover the TRUE cost of energy. Wind power is not cheap or "free" power. Yes it is a clean re-newable resourse but is not cheap. The tax breaks and incentives they got have made this feasible, otherwise it is still far cheaper to go with convential methods.

Frankly I see the maintainance costs as huge with this and way underestimated. Construstion costs are AWALYS sugar coated. The "big dig" was originally estimated to cost 2 billion. It is up to 14.5 billion and counting.

IMO wind power is too low of an energy denisty to be cost effective for massive application, that is in order to get enough power to be significant to the grid, it is spread out over a huge area and requires massive equipment outlays distributed over an unrealistic area. All in all it when it is said and done will not produce that much power. Wind power is fine for the guy living in a remote place and needs to charge a 12V system or power a few light bulbs and a small refrig, but don't plan on powering boston or ny highrises with it that have AC in every room with Big Screen TV and sub zero refrig's. not gonna happen, ever, look at the numbers.

We need massive power produced in a few key spots. I want to see more $ put into developing modern next generation atomic plants. This is the real long term future of this globe energy needs. Look at the numbers and there is no question which is the best way to go.

06-26-2006, 10:47 AM
The actual cost effectiveness of wind power varies
with the cost of conventional power; as conventional power costs increase, wind power becomes more attractive. The people at Varian
Semiconductor in Gloucester are building wind turbines because the power will be cheaper than conventional.

With regard to potential energy levels, there are already very large wind farms off the coast of Europe; they currently produce 20 % of the power for the country of Denmark. America has
huge wind potential off the coasts; Massachusetts especially could produce huge amounts of power from wind.

Nuclear is safe, but has significant unresolved waste disposal issues.

06-27-2006, 11:08 AM
hq2, the windfarm people have bypassed the requirement for posting a bond which would hold them responsible for taking down the windmills at the end of thier life expectancy. Who do you think will be responsible for that cleanup? The answer has to be much the same as the nuclear refuse, we will be.

07-04-2006, 09:29 PM
Try to imagine feeding three hundred million Americans without trucks or referigation. I think the time will come when we will beg to buy power--whatever the cost. Get used to wind mills, nuclear, solar cells, whatever. They are all going to be needed.
Oh; by the way, there are six or seven billion other folks worried about the same thing. They will be bidding against us for what ever power is available.
Scary, ain't it!

07-06-2006, 11:08 AM
Currently and for the forseeable future there is no market available for this energy.

07-14-2006, 01:13 PM
Paid ad eh? Probably written by one of those people who doesn't want to see the windmills in their precious view :yawn: :fishslap:

07-14-2006, 02:53 PM
Hi Canalman,
Mine was not a paid add.
I have a 240' wind turbine down the street, in Portsmouth RI.
I have yet to hear a bad word about it. I would much rather develop the technology now than wait until the day befor we need it.


07-14-2006, 04:55 PM
Yea, I see that thing everytime I drive through N'Port. (I live in westport). I have no problem with them and I think they should put them up out there...

07-15-2006, 10:06 AM
What would you do if you fished the area where it is proposed the windmills be erected and thenyour told you can no longer access the area because of the turbines. Its one thing if they are being built on private property but another altogether when these privates businesses are looking to get land/water sites for free. Access after construction is finished is the primary concern, and no one involved seems to want to give up that information.

07-19-2006, 03:22 PM
I think I'd find out what the facts were before I got all worked up about it... I can't see why they'd keep people out of there after they've been put up... and if they were going to try and keep you out I don't know how they could ever enforce it. I would be pissed if they tried to oust me from one of my spots.... but with the prices of energy these days... I have to rule on the side of moving forward toward alternate sources rather than these acient methods we use now that have kept the same people fat and happy for too long.

07-19-2006, 04:21 PM
Like you, I think we should be developing new sources NOW!
I also think that when all is said and done, it will be the same
group that will be fat and happy.:wid:

08-11-2006, 02:41 PM
For all interested parties, the following link is
useful. (Not that they're impartial either!) But, they have many basic facts on wind power worth

08-29-2006, 08:03 PM
Well we need to figure out what we are going to do!! We can't continue the way we are going!!

I am for the wind farm as long as they can do it and do it right!!

But that said I know a guy that put a wind mill in his yard about 25 years ago.

He said he always has power and the law makes the big company buy any extra he makes, But even with all that he said that the up keep was crazy!!

He says he has been able to have electric free all these years, but all the money he made from the big co. buying the extra was consumed by repairs and maintenance and that it really isn't worth the cost and he would not recommend any one do it!!

08-29-2006, 08:53 PM
Hopefully, the industry has learned a lot from forward thinking folks
like your friend.
I hope the unit one would install today would be a lot more
advanced than they were 25 years ago.
I bet that being that far ahead of the curve had some ugly surprises
and must have been a real pain in the butt.
A tip of the hat to your friend.

10-13-2006, 04:35 PM
i know this is a little late but wanted to say something anyway. As maco joe said above, we should be all for it if they do it right. honestly, i dont trust these people to do it right so i have kept quiet about promoting it. i went to portsmouth abbey and hung around a lot at the site during its construction. now we watch as it works to pay itself off. sitting there for an hour saying "we just made 5 dollars" is pretty cool. the fact is that machine will power up to 80% of the school and cut down our costs but would be a raindrop in the ocean for any signifigant public need. when you start putting 140 machines together is when the progress is visible, but the private ownership once again kills it. they need it off shore and public, period.