Fresh from CCtimes update:
(Knew it was coming, still sucks.)
Lower Cape beaches close to protect plovers

ORLEANS- In an unprecedented move,
many of the Lower Cape's ocean beaches are now closed to off-road vehicle traffic in order to protect the federally endangered piping plover.

Last night the town of Orleans decided to close its part of Nauset Beach, starting June 21.

For the first time ever, all vehicle access to the Cape Cod National Seashore's off-road vehicle corridor has been temporarily closed to protect piping plovers. Partial closures of the oversand route have been common in years past, but, as in Orleans this year, this time it's the whole enchilada.

The approximately 8-mile, off-road vehicle corridor runs from Race Point Light in Provincetown to Longnook Beach in Truro.

On June 7 Chatham police closed its portion south of Trail 7, also to protect the nesting shorebirds.

The roughly 8-mile-long stretch of beach in Orleans and Chatham is a mecca for thousands of beachgoers each year, most of whom drive there. The area is also home to more a dozen beach camp homes.

Parts of the beach usually close each year to protect the shorebird, but often there's a trail that ORV drivers can use to detour around the nesting plovers.

This year there are two piping plover nests located one-half mile from the Nauset Beach parking lot at the start of the off-road vehicle trail in Orleans.

The town says the piping plover eggs might hatch between June 21 and June 25 and the beach needs to be closed to adhere to state and federal endangered species laws.

The Orleans Park Commissioners last night voted to close all of that town's outer beach when the eggs hatch, estimated to be between June 21 and June 25.

The latest closure will be in effect from the time the eggs hatch until the chicks fledge, which normally takes 28-35 days. That means that all of the heavily traversed outer beach could be closed to vehicles through the end of July.

The town sells about 6,000 off-road vehicle permits each year to those wanting access to the secluded swath of beach. Those fees alone bring in more than $500,000.

It is likely that thousands of outer beach-goers from all across the country will be disappointed by this closure. If you bought a Nauset oversand vehicle permit this summer from the town and have an opinion about these developments, please call Times reporter Jason Kolnos at 508-916-0406 before 5 p.m. today.

:shocked: So you guys got like no beaches!!!! How many does flaptails skiff hold?????

We are all coming to Rhody, I got a nice detailed map... ;)

All the fish are at montauk, under the "candle" or by the park :devil:

I pulled my 16 footer, from my freshwater days outta the woods.. a lake boat, tho, not enuf freeboard, dernit...gotta admit, since the trip with Flap, I've been thinking real hard of doin' some horse tradin'... Steve, ya corrupted me :)

We are all coming to Rhody, I got a nice detailed map... ;)


See you in RI @ 3am! :sled:

:shocked: So you guys got like no beaches!!!! How many does flaptails skiff hold?????


I wonder if the plovers could be trained to nest on rocks and all move to RI? ???

I wonder if the plovers could be trained to nest on rocks and all move to RI? ???


I guess... but we WALK to fish. Keeps us lean and mean:whackin:

I guess... but we WALK to fish. Keeps us lean and mean:whackin:

I don`t drive on any beach and that hasn`t helped me from being a whale with two feet :huh: though I`m still mean :scream2:

From MBBA's website:

Updated 06/08/2006

Ladies and Gentleman,

Here is the latest report for Nauset Beach…

As of 6/7/06 Nauset Beach is closed to ORV traffic from trial 7 to the south barricade. Unfortunately, there is a good chance that the birds that are nesting at the Pochet wash-over will hatch some time this month (June) and therefore, pose the threat of closing ALL of Nauset beach to ORV traffic. This is something I can assure you that both towns are trying to avoid. If any alternative measures that the towns are submitting to the state are accepted, the towns of Orleans and Chatham will make the necessary changes to allow Nauset Beach to remain open to ORV’s.

I certainly understand the frustration that is starting to build with the numerous issues that are surrounding us due to the piping plover. As stated in an above post, the MBBA Officers, Board of Directors and general attendance at last nights meeting spent hours discussing what WE AS A ORGANIZATION can due to look deeper into what is going on with this threatened species. Several of us did not get home until after midnight last night. It’s obvious that we have a steadily growing issue on or hands and it is time to work together as a team. It’s a proven fact that power is in numbers and it’s time to do something about this.
My suggestion right now is to stay in touch with your beach reps., this is very important. Keep in mind that this message board is a great tool and thousands of people read our posts. Therefore, don’t let your frustrations out on this message board, give your beach rep a call or drop an email. Again, I can assure you, your organization and the local beach managers are trying there best to keep these beautiful beaches open for all to coexist and to enjoy.

Keep your head up and don’t give up…

Scott Morris, MBBA Nauset Beach Representative


It's time to do something about this? Discussing what they as an organization can do to "look deeper" into what is going on??? WTF have these guys been for the last 15 years? The time to do something was years ago :wall:

Whatever happened to survival of the fittest?

People with stickers should ask for a refund. Yeah, right.

:rocketem: They did not do anything because their SCV areas were not effected the last two years were proof of the trouble the park service go to to get them on the beach. The fisherman that move around had no place to go. The question is will they still be allowed to sleap at Pilgram Springs?

From my local paper...

Norton Point Beach reopened to vehicles

Dave Belcher, Trustees of Reservations Chappaquid#^&#^&#^&#^& superintendent, called on Friday and said the west end of Norton Point Beach was closed to vehicles to protect the only surviving plover chick from a nest of four eggs. Dave said high tides had washed away two eggs and the two remaining eggs hatched, but one chick quickly disappeared.

He estimated the closure could last up to 28 days -the time it could take for the chick to learn to fly. The chick never got the chance.

Yesterday, Dave called and said the chick was gone and the beach was open to permitted vehicles. There are more chicks about to hatch, however.

"This was only the first round," said Dave.

Those chicks will need all their survival instincts and a lot of luck to survive the abundance of natural predators along that stretch of beach.

:humpty:

The species should be eradicated...I dont think vehicles on the beach are a factor. If they cant survive too bad.:rocketem:

Glad I didn't buy a sticker......been wanting to drive on the sand for a few years now....but with the kids...haven't had the time....now I have the time...and I can't do it....pretty soon it will be the canal...and thats it.

There be a lot of natural predators down there. Mayby we get lucky. And even better, mayby the yahoos give it up!

I thought the MBBA and the National Park Service had a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" policy. Isn't that why they asked MBBA to 'Roll Over'. Bummer you went in as a 'tight end' and came out a "wide receiver":heybaby:

So you have the MBBA as your target area? And what have you and yours been doing to advocate for beach access?

Truth hurts, huh? Probably the same as most here, writing letters, calling state reps, petitions,voting, being active in sportsman's groups. I haven't tried making backroom deals with the folks that want to close the majority of the 30+ miles of outer beach so I can park a bus in a trailer park on the sand and get drunk; but then that gets done without me.... don't forget the bandaids for when the kids skin their knees in the Pilgrim Heights parking lot... The most accurate thing Frank Daignault ever wrote was about how the Park Service seduced the user groups of the beach...Like a couple of teenagers in a car, it all started with a hand upon the knee, with the same end result- we got screwed....

So , lay it out for all of us to hear. Tell us your perspective, as we highjack this thread. Noticed you edited before my latest post.

No, your right...MBBA has done a great job, that's why the access is so wonderful. Good thing we didn't get divided and conquered (SC over OS)... I've said enough- maybe We'll share a walk from a parking lot some night to the beach and talk of things more pleasant, like fishing. Good Luck, Tight Lines...

enough said. tight lines.

Fighting amongst ourselves only serves the antis.

Art's tours.. ask the seashore.. he does have a sweetheart deal with the park service, and perhaps someone else, but my memory is foggy on that.

Could the MBBA have done more? Absolutley... I am still a member, in spite of my differences with the philosophy... the camper contigent is the majority there.. and at a lot of meetings and hearings too.. where are the beach fishermen?.. if you were the majority, you'd be in charge.. either way... small group.. 1200 members. figure 300 of that is kids 300 spouses.. and still only the same 30 or so show up for the meetings... and individuals, I have done most of my letter writng and meeting going in that capacity, as my opnion, is probably no the same as the clubs... daytrippers, campers, dracula hours fishermen roaming around in pickups and SUV's... we all got the right to be there..and I've been guilty of being in all three groups ;)

However... the Law favors the birds.. some kind of unity should come from all user groups... the antis, have foremed a coalition... unity.. srength in numbers.. they have the upper hand, their numbers are $$$, lobbyists, and Lawyers...and a lot more time in.

FIGHT them, not amongst ourselves.


or.. buy a boat :spin:

We are all coming to Rhody, I got a nice detailed map... ;)

West, go west young man.:bl:

My buggy looks great with the skiff attached. Best fishing in recent memory, gets better each day. Tomorrow, it's wire in the channel and light tackle n' sluggos. Too many fish, bringing camera with me so you beach bums can see what a Surfcaster gone bad is up too.

Skiffin' gotta go Skiffin' it's the last resort.

The Snapple is already on ice Karl. Oh yeah, almost forgot to pack the suntan lotion and bandages for me roughed up and skinned fisngers. LALALALALALALA sKIFFIN' IS DA LIFE FER ME!:bl:

June 16, 2006

ORVs face beach bans
By JASON KOLNOS and ERIC WILLIAMS
STAFF WRITERS
For thousands of lotion-lubed drivers over sand, the meccas of Cape Cod are going off limits.

The off-road vehicle destinations also are maternity wards for endangered piping plovers.

In what are being called unprecedented closures on multiple fronts, many of the Lower Cape's ocean beaches have been, or will soon be, closed to off-road vehicle traffic to protect the bird.

For the first time ever, all vehicle access to the Cape Cod National Seashore's off-road vehicle corridor has been temporarily closed to protect piping plovers. The approximately 8-mile lane runs from Race Point Light in Provincetown to Longnook Beach in Truro. The Seashore sells 3,000 annual and 400 weekly permits for access, which could be closed for three to four weeks.

Last week, police closed most of Chatham's portion of Nauset Beach to traffic - south of Trail 7 - for an undetermined amount of time.

And Wednesday night, Orleans officials announced they'll soon close the entire south end of Nauset Beach because two plover nests were found in the area. Orleans' ORV corridor along Nauset, called the Outer Beach, will be closed from the time eggs hatch - sometime between June 21 and June 25 - until the chicks fledge or move out, which could take a month.

''This is a very big deal,'' said Paul Fulcher, Orleans parks and beaches superintendent. ''The last thing you want to do is shut down a recreational area that thousands and thousands of people look forward to going to every year.''
The town's hands are tied, Fulcher said, because they must adhere to stringent state and federal endangered species laws.

Vacationers upset
''This is like pulling the rug right out from under my summer vacation,'' said Tony Dawes of Los Angeles, who has frequented the Outer Beach for years in early July with his brother and nephews.

''The Fourth of July is magical out there, but I guess they put the kaputz on that.''

Parts of the Seashore and Nauset Beach usually close each year to protect the shorebird, but there usually has been a designated trail that ORV drivers could use to detour around the nesting plovers.

Not this year.

''The birds have a fair degree of tolerance, and we set up safety buffers for vehicles while they're on nests,'' said Carrie Phillips, the Seashore's chief of natural resources. ''But once they hatch and we have chicks, the concern becomes about the possibility of a chick getting run over, so the buffers that we put around the areas where the chicks are get significantly bigger.''

This time, those bigger buffers linked together in ways that made a complete ORV shutdown necessary.

Word of the closures yesterday stunned dozens of off-road vehicle drivers, especially those who have frequented the Outer Beach for decades.

The 8-mile Nauset Beach that runs from Orleans to Chatham is a crown jewel, drawing more than 1 million people a year. Orleans sells about 6,000 ORV permits generating about $400,000 in annual revenue. Now the beach can only be accessed on foot.


'Cotton balls on toothpicks'
Erosion over the past few years has for the first time forced the closure of the entire width of Nauset Beach after piping plover chicks have hatched, said Scott Melvin, senior zoologist at the state Division of Fisheries and Wildlife, who coordinates plover conservation efforts.

Plover chicks - which he described as ''cotton balls on toothpicks'' - leave the nest within hours of hatching then scramble to the water's edge for food.

For about 35 days after hatching, chicks can run mad-cap all over the beach, making them vulnerable to vehicles, Melvin said. The erosion at Nauset has narrowed the beach, meaning the chicks can move back and forth across the entire beach from the shoreline of the open ocean to Pochet Inlet to the west, Melvin said.

Robert Prescott, director of Massachusetts Audubon's Wellfleet Bay Wildlife Sanctuary, said Nauset has been the most under-performing beach for plover nesting pairs across the Northeast this year.

''The piping plover is telling us something. Either we're mismanaging the beach, there are too many people (using it), or there is something else (at work),'' he said.
Those who own camps along the Outer Beach in Orleans will have to boat or walk to their properties, while Chatham camp owners will need an escort to drive on a pre-designated path.

While Orleans is planning for the closures, Fulcher said the nests are still susceptible to predators and other external factors.


Closures come with cost
The closures pose a threat to Orleans' town coffers. Fulcher said the town could be out $125,000 if fewer people buy permits this year.

Area businesses, too, could lose money if people are forced to stay away from a very popular section of Nauset Beach in the height of summer.

Steve Burd, co-owner of Eldia Marketplace and Coffeehouse, said he depends on Nauset visitors who pick up snacks and drinks before and after their beach excursions.

''That beach is what I live for, and to take that away is unbelievable,'' said Tony Stetzko, a commercial surf fisherman, who added the Outer Beach is a key source of his income.




Stetzko said the town should investigate more equitable beach management techniques, such as increased fencing or hiring full-time staff to guide traffic away from nests.

Others - including out-of-towners who paid $180 for a Nauset ORV permit - said the town's no-refund policy is unfair.

Town officials said the possibility of closures is clearly spelled out in videos applicants are required to watch and handouts before permits are issued.

Jason Kolnos can be reached at jkolnos@capecodonline.com. Eric Williams can be reached at ewilliams@capecodonline.com. Staff writer Robin Lord contributed to this report.

(Published: June 16, 2006)

My buggy looks great with the skiff attached. Best fishing in recent memory, gets better each day. Tomorrow, it's wire in the channel and light tackle n' sluggos. Too many fish, bringing camera with me so you beach bums can see what a Surfcaster gone bad is up too.

Skiffin' gotta go Skiffin' it's the last resort.

The Snapple is already on ice Karl. Oh yeah, almost forgot to pack the suntan lotion and bandages for me roughed up and skinned fisngers. LALALALALALALA sKIFFIN' IS DA LIFE FER ME!:bl:


Youre a mess!!! Knock the snot outta em:devil:

Sounds like a nice deal.Sell as many tickets as u can an then close the beach because of 2 friggen salt sparrow nest's.What a joke..Anton is right. they should just hire someone to work the bird area..With a fenced off cage like area.if they cared so much about them.They would just move em hell without a cage the foxes wil get em anyways.If it was my area I would be pissed.& miles of beach closed the 4 of july weekend cause of 2 friggin nests.Wow.

''The piping plover is telling us something. Either we're mismanaging the beach, there are too many people (using it), or there is something else (at work),'' he said.

Wouldn't the something else at work be coyotes, skunks, foxes, weather, and other predrators? Did any drwon in the 39 days of rain :huh:

What a dilema for the Audubon guy, if a Black Gull ate the plover...
anyway..he is jockeying to take over the bird management... God Forbid...

to Clarify this situation a bit..

Nauset is NOT closed YET.
As soon as the birds hatch, projected time to be as early as the 21st, as late as the 29th, THEN, is when it will be closed for 28-35 days, whenever they fledge.
Updates are posted on the Town of Orleans Website.

The resident side is open for about 100 yards, 40-50 vehicles according to the town website.. forget that :doh: !

John R, I couldn't agree more... But u notice how Audabon immediately points at people using the beach...because they want us off so they can manage it as a monopoly. They want the concession of the guided tours for their own ends. Who knows what else is out on Nauset, feral cats kill alot of birds. How many get dumped after the summer and go wild... Besides, what is the historical number of plovers? Gull numbers are way out of whack, historically speaking; and they eat plover chicks too...

Just picked up a few of these bumber stickers on Ebay. Perhaps I will slap them on an unsuspecting patrol vehicle.:hee:
No, honestly there a LOT of predators and the guys watching the nests KNOW for a fact that it is not vehicles causing the probems. The frigging crows sit on the cage and wait until the little guy makes it out. If the crows don't get them the skunks hawks coons and others will. The issue with the trucks is that the little chicks like to hang out in the tracks of the trucks and they have good camo. It is easy to run over the little buggers. My point has been to MOVE THE BIRDS TO MONOMOY OR NOMANS OR MUSKEGET OR some other bird reserve island that does not have many of these predators. I think in the long run this is their only shot. Shutting down the entire beach for a bird is absurd IMO.

a guy at a local tackle shop explained it to me this way : we are at the northern most point of the birds' travels, yet we suffer the extreme consequences. the long island area is/was a hot bed for the bird, but now they are all but extinct there. so up here, we get clobbered on these regs.

i say, this is just the way they(the environmentalist wackos)want it. they don't want us on the beach:plain and simple. and they will stop at nothing to get us off.

plovers taste like turkey

Sorry, but they are nowhere near extinct on LI. I know of 3 beaches presently closed--two entirely, one with the most productive bar inacessible to vehicles--for plovers. At least at the last one, you can walk in and in many ways, I used to prefer it--kept the lazy slobs and the headlight-happy guys out of your way ;)

OK for all that are pissed off about Nauset and race point, think about this beach for a moment. Plum Island is a awsome area to fish and does allow off road vehicles for beach use. Beach use is defined as FISHING -- you must be actively fishing, or off ya go. PI is open only from mid August til Labor Day. That is only about a month of use folks, and that is if you are lucky.

Now for those who think the MBBA is a bunch of drunks out there for a good time think again. The MBBA does more than any other organization to protect the beaches and maintain high standards of use. Karl is correct that the MBBA is widespread and is governed by a small group who are in charge of more than access. Those who are not familiar with the organization should at least visit the website of the MBBA and look at the scheduled events that take place each year. I am a member (as you can easily figure) and I do attend the events, but not all meetings due to travel distance. The great majority of members are surf casting fishermen, not boat owners and do try and protect their rights to access to the beaches.

Please, this closure is another tool to limit our access to the fishing grounds we all love. Lets not sling mud between groups, but unify and help maintain beach access for ALL! :lossinit:

Don very well put, Just a simple correction about PLum Island,
they changed the rules last year Labor day to 10/31 and you don't have to be actively fishing until dusk to dawn. no sleeping. unless your in a SCV

They taste like a cross between white rhino and bald eagle :nopain: :bgi: :bgi:

Everyone bring your drivers down to your nearest beach and some t's... problem solved :hidin: :devil: :devil: :devil:

OK for all that are pissed off about Nauset and race point, think about this beach for a moment. Plum Island is a awsome area to fish and does allow off road vehicles for beach use. Beach use is defined as FISHING -- you must be actively fishing, or off ya go. PI is open only from mid August til Labor Day. That is only about a month of use folks, and that is if you are lucky.

Now for those who think the MBBA is a bunch of drunks out there for a good time think again. The MBBA does more than any other organization to protect the beaches and maintain high standards of use. Karl is correct that the MBBA is widespread and is governed by a small group who are in charge of more than access. Those who are not familiar with the organization should at least visit the website of the MBBA and look at the scheduled events that take place each year. I am a member (as you can easily figure) and I do attend the events, but not all meetings due to travel distance. The great majority of members are surf casting fishermen, not boat owners and do try and protect their rights to access to the beaches.

Please, this closure is another tool to limit our access to the fishing grounds we all love. Lets not sling mud between groups, but unify and help maintain beach access for ALL! :lossinit:

Are you talking about the closure at Plum Island or the G-men using the Plovers to stick it to us rtather than they being in a can't win situation cause if they don't close the beach the Dept. of Interior and US F&W will be up thier ass and if they do close them we are up thier asses?

I do not think the plover is being "used" to stick it to the surf and beach crowd. One thing I have noticed and maybe I should keep my mouth shut is that the rangers on the Seashore beaches, except for crowd control tactics at sticker sales time are virtually absent when the fisherman descend on the beaches at night at RP to Truro. 15 years ago they would acost you if you sitting in your vehicle or God forbid, taking a snooze. Now they hardly botheer with you.

Like anything, once the feds get thier hands on a "species restoration" project as the USFWS has with the plovers and the mountains of burocracy to get the plan implemented, running and then to have their field people, who are scared to death of lawsuits from Enviro groups, release the species from the endangered list, it will be a span of 15 to 20 years. And might I add, are plovers are doing alright, better than the current minimum levels to be taken off the list but coast wide, especially along Long Island beaches, thier numbers are in the toilet, so being that it is a national program, until the NY, NJ populations respond we ain't going to see any difference in the closure scene in Massachusetts. We pay for thier shortcomings at restoration of populations.:uhuh:

Lets hope Nature eats the probems quickly!

Many good points made by people here. And some of you may already know my point of view on this from previous threads on the subject. I believe that vehicular traffic is a minor endangerment to birds compared to predation by foxes, coyotes, skunks, racoons, gulls, crows, and feral animals (cats and dogs). It is will known that many predatory animals have, over the years, learned that the exclosures (designed to protect the plover chicks) actually attract predators who have learned to associate those structures with an easy meal. However, no one wants to deal with the "real" threats (which might include population control of these predators) and it is an easy and politcally correct solution to ban human access. It is a simple and minimally effective form of "managment" (a term I use loosely here).

Regrettably, we live in a world where a certain political segment of the population want to blame humans for all the environmental challenges we face. While humans have created much of the problem, the limited breeding territory available to these birds is NOT solely due to the use of the Cape Cod National Seashore by vehicles. One must look at development and destruction of habitat from a wide range of more permanent sources.

The "Catch 22" that we'll all be facing soon is that if the Piping Plover population does recover in larger numbers, that will mean more nests, more chicks, and more beach closures. I predict that over the next few years, the success of programs designed to improve plover breeding success will highten (not lesson) restrictions.

I have to agree with flaptail the rangers were more aggressive fifteen years ago.

The "Catch 22" that we'll all be facing soon is that if the Piping Plover population does recover in larger numbers, that will mean more nests, more chicks, and more beach closures. I predict that over the next few years, the success of programs designed to improve plover breeding success will highten (not lesson) restrictions.

I agree with this 100%. Once the population's back up (if that happens) you can kiss access to the backside goodbye forever just to keep it up.

i did not see the signs at scusset for the plovers roped off area and i cut thorugh and had a f-ing bitchy autobon with bonculars lady come up to be and start bitching me out and OH that wasnt enough see had to call the park ranger and tell me that he would give me a warning( OH im real scared) if i cut though again.it wasnt like i hung around in there or was taking pot shots at plover chicks.

the plover lady must have not liked fisherman because i saw two other people cut through that same area and nothing happend and i was not rude to her at all when she spoke to me. i explaned that coyotes and foxs were mostley to blame because of the over popualtion and peta puffers of MA banning trapping for them.

people need to look at the whole picture not just the beach buggy corner that seems to get all the blame and i swear to ***** that the plovers have more rights in MA than humans do.

We try not to be very heavy-handed in moderating, but there are people here who would be offended by that.

If they CAN'T COUNT PANDA BEARS ,gee how many plovers are really out their ????

wtf


VB


NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Giant pandas may not be in as much danger of extinction as feared with a new British-Chinese study finding there could be twice as many living in the wild as previously thought, scientists said on Monday.

It is a know fact that the chicks that pick a congested spot to hatch do best! The ones that are near the public beach where cars are driving past regularly and there is a path to the beach always seem to survive better then the ones in a remote locations. IMO the vehicle and people activity tend to keep the predators away and the chicks stand a better shot.

To further prove that vehicles are not the blame in cases where the beaches are closed completely to vehicles the chicks die anyway! They didn't die from vehicles! IMO the birds would be better off with vehicle traffic out there.

I am still of the opinion that if you really care that much about the bird, move him to his own friggin island, Lord knows we have enough of them dedicated to the cause. The amount of people-energy that is expended protecting and watcing over this bird is absurd and IT STILL DOES NOT HELP. Just move them to a safe spot and let them be.

If the critters don't get them the weather does. One good Noreaster and they are toast here. All the eggs get washed away...wouldn't it have been better to move them to a safe spot on their own island? They would thank you if they could.

http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes/capenews22.htm

:fishslap: :crying: :gu: :(

Truro. 15 years ago they would acost you if you sitting in your vehicle or God forbid, taking a snooze. Now they hardly botheer with you.


we use to snooze duing the day and Nusuck they use to bust nuts also.
our counter was how come no bag them for hard tires :call:
Im a Filthy Town Work'r Now LOL............

ya got yer dream job, good fer U
U is a born town worker :p ;), union man too.. nice, now ya can buy a boat :D
don't get splinters leanin' on that shovel, :p.. besides now ya gonna get paid ta sleep in a truck :hihi:

dude ya woke me up:lasso:

Hey, who left the door open? BM gets a job, now he has time to post!:rotf2: :rotf2: Just kidding Dave. Good to see you in here and hear things are better on the job front.:)

Hey dave welcomeback-- glad to hear that you got that yob. Now we can fish YOUR spots whilst you are sleeping? Good luck Dave.:D