Anyone else besides me ever try this technique.....I am an avid fisherman that has never picked up a fly or fly rod. I have family that are die-hard fly fisjerman, and they have always tried to get me to pick up a light weight beginners rod and start throwing flies.

Anyway, after fishing with my brother and seeing him get schoolies on flies, I decided to try something. I purchased a small deceiver fly, and fronted it with a lead-head weight to give it some casting weight. I used a 20-pound leader tied to some 10 pound test. Off I went with my small, light weight spinning rod....and the rest was history. I caught my fair share of schoolies by basically just casting my deceiver and jerking the rod tip a little while reeling it in. I tried to simulate the jerk and go action one would get from hand pulling in a fly on a fly rod. The technique seemed to be as productive as regular fly fishing, with the added benefit of being able to place my fly exactly where I wanted it. I know the purest would think this blasphemy, but hey, it works well till I learn to fly fish for real.

Anyone else ever do this?

No, but I've used clouser deep minnow flies on a light spin rod.

If you can cast a fly with a spin rod...it is probably a jig.

:o

I use a slightly different test . If I can cast it over 100' with my flyrod then its probably a fly.

Most of the 'Clousers are jigs' flyfishermen that I've come across, routinely use split shot or pieces of lead core to get their flies deeper. So what difference does it make if the lead is on the fly or on the line??

There are zillions of different fly styles and patterns out there, but none that I know of even come close to being as effective as a Clouser.

Was just trying to get some activity going on this board. :) At least I got one rise.

I don't buy your test. If you can cast a 3 inch plastic sluggo 100 feet, does that make it a fly?

As far as what difference it makes whether the lead is on the leader or the fly, it probably doesn't. The clouser catches lots of fish, perhaps better than any other pattern. Note I didn't call it a fly. ;)

Look at Maine, where they are serious about their fly fishing traditions. Until recently, NO WEIGHT at all could be built into a fly for it to be a legal fly on fly fishing only waters. And you had to FLY CAST, no trolling.

I was at a Rhody Rodders meeting last winter where J. Edson Leonard, the author of "Flies" and Armand Courchaine agreed that if the fly was weighted, it WASN'T a fly.

hr04..... i use wooden egg they come in different sizes drill center hole and use wire or mono and bingo go spin fly fish. :cool:

To get a rise out off the fly purist put on a seaworm/mumichog/or anything living to the end of your wand.
I like fly rod fishing for the fight a 24" fish can give, I'm still working on the tube and worm fly I read about on another board.

fishsmith,

I missed the tube and worm fly. Please elaborate.

I read about the sluggo "fly" on another board, too. Use a sluggo hook and the little 3 inch sluggo, apply superglue to the hook...and bingo, sluggo "fly".

Have you seen the "flies" tied with plastic "curlytails"?

I don't know if I could cast a Sluggo 100'. It doen't seem like it would cast very well.

I could be mistaken by I don't think the FFing laws in Maine or the provinces have anything to do with FFing tradition or purism. I think they are in place to make the FFing only laws enforceable. Otherwise a fellow could fish the water with an ultra light spinning rod and a heavily weighted rod. They are also aimed at discouraging poachers from snagging fish.

Their are certainly many patterns which are marginal in terms of being flies. I have struggled to cast some silicone creations on a flyrod and been able to cast them much further on a surf spinning rod. These flies were not weighted ... at least not with lead.

What if I leave the lead eyes off a Clouser like fly and instead tie it on an extremely heavy duty (and thus heavy weight) hook. Is that a jig. It will probably fish quite a bit like a lightly weighted Clouser on a normal weight hook.

Or what if I tie a flatwing with all the hackles curving downward. When I strip line this fly will tend to hop up in the water column. It sort of becomes an upside down jig. So is this pattern not a fly? Is it an anti-jig? Or whatever?

I find it sort of strange that Armand would say that. I have fished with Armand on several ocassions going back to 1974 or (5). If memory serves me correctly he was using clousers the past several times I fished with him.

I have seen the flies which incorporate plastic curly tails and the like. I personally don't consider them to be true flies. You sort of build them rahter than tying them. But thats only my opinion. If thats what floats your boat, go to it.

The 3 inch sluggos with light wire sluggo hooks can be cast much further with a fly rod than a spin rod. During the worm swarm this spring a friend and I compared casting little sluggos using ultra lite spin and fly rods, and the fly rods won by an easy 2 to 1 one margin.

A lot of Maine's laws are steeped in tradition. The no Sunday hunting law is a good example. From their old lawbook definitions:

"Fly means a single-pointed hook with feathers, hair, thread, tinsel or similar material to which no additional weight, hook, spinner, spoon, or similar device is added."

"It is unlawful to fish in fly fishing waters with additional weight added to a fly OR line for the purpose of sinking the fly, OR casting a fly on a spinning rod & reel."

"Fly Fishing means casting upon water and retrieving in a manner in which the weight of the fly line propels the fly."

It's pretty clear that Maine previously didn't consider weighted flies proper for fly fishing only...but they have bowed to current popular demand.

Putting dumbell eyes on a fly changes the whole dynamic of the fly, and it will fish differently from a heavy hook fly tied clouser style. The dumbell eyes turn the hook upside down, and weight the front end down so the fly acts like a jig. Put a heavy hook clouser sans eyes, and a regular one in your sink and drop them. The heavy hook will sink evenly hook point down, and the clouser hook up.

Let's muddy the waters some more. The IGFA says in its' rules book:

"The lure must be a recognized type of artificial fly...The fact that a lure can be cast with a fly rod is not evidence in itself that it fits the definition of a fly."

Some help they are. My guess is they accept clousers as a recognized fly. I wonder if they would take the plastic curlytail flies...

:confused:

Rockfisherman
Some people like to get caught up in their own rhetoric. Others just go out and catch fish.

See you on the beach, if you can get past that big pile of rhetoric that seems to surround you.

People fish for different reasons. Some people fish to fill the freezer and "just catch fish." Others enjoy the literature, history and traditions of the sport. Fly fishing is more difficult. It is a self-imposed restriction - put upon the angler by himself. If you only want to fill the freezer, nets or bait are much more efficient. Most people fly fish for other reasons.

Fly-fishing has become big business in the last ten years. Businesses by their nature want to grow, and to grow you need to attract new people into the sport, and invent new things to sell to them.

In our instant gratification society, some individuals are always looking for shortcuts to success. They want the title of fly fisherman, more than wanting to BE a fly fisherman. They are easy marks for businesses wanting to sell gadgets and “systems”.

50 years ago, when “Flies” was written, there was no mention of weighted flies or weighted eyes in the “Materials” chapter. None.

If you attach a piece of bunker to a fly, and dunk it with your fly rod, you might catch a large fish. You can say you caught the fish on your fly rod. Will the IGFA accept it as a fly rod record? Unlikely, if the truth is told how the fish was caught.

You can fish with a curlytail glued to a hook, or a jig, or fly soaked in fish oil. There are no fly fishing police, and these practices are legal in saltwater. But these practices are not recognized by the IGFA as fly-fishing.

Going back to the original title of this thread, it seems very appropriate. But the only person you are “cheating” by taking shortcuts is yourself. Honestly ask yourself, are you are fly fishing, or just fishing with a fly rod?

Hello my name is Jim and I fish with a flyrod.

Rockfisherman
You seem to incinuate that FFing is some ways a handicap to fishing success. I feel just the opposite. I feel that flyfishing offers you a lot of advantages over the bait soakers. And if you are able to capitalize on these inherent advantages, then you can catch more fish than the bottom dunkers under most circumstances. Am I saying that I expect to go out and outfish a buch of commercial fishermen slinging eels? Nope! I only wish!

I'm not sure what the absence of any weighted flies in a book written 50 years ago is supposed to mean. However, I started fly tying about 47 years ago. I can assure you that it was possible
to buy lead wire for weighting flies back then. It didn't appear that this was some new invention at the time. AHE Wood, the originator of the Greased Line fishing technique, spoke of using very large (4/0 and 5/0)flies to take advantage of the heavier hooks to fish deeper in the heavy spring flow. He also said there was a limit at which point unleaded flies could no longer be fished effectively. So one would assume if there were unleaded flies, it would follow that there were leaded flies. I believe Mr. Wood died in the early 1930's. So I guess weighted flies have been around for a while dispite what may not be in a single book.

You speak of the rich flyfishing tradition in Maine. I have fished there a few times since the early 1960's. Most of the 'fly fishing' there involves trolling flies from boats. Sometimes a fly rod is not even used. Often the tackle is conventional revolving spool with leadcore line. Doesn't sound much like flyfishing to me.

Fly fishing is supposed to be fun. It has always been so for me. If someone chooses to do something differently than me, it is their perrogative.

I am always amused by the newbees to the sport who try to impose their own sense of FFing morality on the masses.

So if you and the IGFA or whoever don't like using Clousers or Deceivers or whatever ... then don't. BUt please spare me the lecture on the morality of flyfishing. I've heard various versions of this many times with just as many spins on it.

After reading through some of this board not sure if I'm a fly fisherman or fishing with a fly. I like tying flies and catching on something I tied myself even if it is a copy of someone elses. Never tried to glue a sluggo on a hook but I admit at the end of somedays ,if I only had glue something might get stuck on there. I've seen sometimes when fly guy out catches the bait guy but not when I was the fly guy , I was the bait guy. This spring was the first time trout fishing I felt that I did better with a fly than I did with bait. Had a few times that looked like it was going to be the big fly bonanza but it took a while to get the third one in that I guess the blitz was over. Supposed to go jig fishing with my brother tonight but it will be hard to beat the last trip to the flats with a fly pole. Didn't catch anything the wind got strong but seeing a hundred or so fish cruising in a few feet of water while your trying to drop a fly in front of a small school is pretty hard to beat.

:smash: it's getting HOT in here,
hello my name is saltydog an I fish w/ a FLY ROD.:happy:
"GOOD LUCK GOOD FISHIN"
P.S. is there anything else:drool:

Hey, SaltyDog,

I fish with a fly rod, too. I didn't read the previous post and I am not going to. In fact, it seems members of this board are intolerant of dissenting opinions. At least some members.

Life is too short to argue with uneducated, immature in-duh-viduals.

Hope to see you on the water.

Tight Lines to all. Good-Bye.

R-Man

:D O.K. you guys keep talking, Im fishing an tyin flys. that should make me a FLY-GUY, if NOT check out my (FLY BOX) page on my site that should qualify me (I HOPE) www.flyrodreeloutfitters.com
BACK to fly tyin, see you on the water.
"GOOD LUCK GOOD FISHIN":cool:

I know I may have stepped on some toes during these posts. Good. I hope it hurt. At least I hope that it makes people think about why they are fly fishing.

:smash: THINK about! why would you have to think about it, just get out an do it. :cool:
'GOOD LUCK GOOD FISHIN"

Its strange how some people will take an activity like fly fishing which a lot of fun and just do their best to take the fun out of it.

It makes me wonder if they ever get out on the water or if they are just shut ins who hide behind their keyboards.

Well guys, enough of this BS ... times a wasting. Get out there and have some fun and I hope you catch a big one ... no matter what type or style of fly you happen to be throwing.