View Full Version : Israel and World War Three Part Deux


spence
07-19-2006, 04:13 PM
Now I'm not quite the isolationist of Buchanan, but this sums things up pretty damn well...

-spence

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Where are the Christians?
Pat Buchanan

When Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert unleashed his navy and air force on Lebanon, accusing that tiny nation of an "act of war," the last pillar of Bush's Middle East policy collapsed.

First came capitulation on the Bush Doctrine, as Pyongyang and Tehran defied Bush's dictum: The world's worst regimes will not be allowed to acquire the world's worst weapons. Then came suspension of the democracy crusade as Islamic militants exploited free elections to advance to power and office in Egypt, Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank, Iraq and Iran.

Now, Israel's rampage against a defenseless Lebanon – smashing airport runways, fuel tanks, power plants, gas stations, lighthouses, bridges, roads and the occasional refugee convoy – has exposed Bush's folly in subcontracting U.S. policy out to Tel Aviv, thus making Israel the custodian of our reputation and interests in the Middle East.

The Lebanon that Israel, with Bush's blessing, is smashing up has a pro-American government, heretofore considered a shining example of his democracy crusade. Yet, asked in St. Petersburg if he would urge Israel to use restraint in its airstrikes, Bush sounded less like the leader of the Free World than some bellicose city councilman from Brooklyn Heights.

What Israel is up to was described by its army chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, when he threatened to "turn back the clock in Lebanon 20 years."

Olmert seized upon Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers to unleash the IDF in a pre-planned attack to make the Lebanese people suffer until the Lebanese government disarms Hezbollah, a task the Israeli army could not accomplish in 18 years of occupation.

Israel is doing the same to the Palestinians. To punish these people for the crime of electing Hamas, Olmert imposed an economic blockade of Gaza and the West Bank and withheld the $50 million in monthly tax and customs receipts due the Palestinians.

Then, Israel instructed the United States to terminate all aid to the Palestinian Authority, though Bush himself had called for the elections and for the participation of Hamas. Our Crawford cowboy meekly complied.

The predictable result: Fatah and Hamas fell to fratricidal fighting, and Hamas militants began launching Qassam rockets over the fence from Gaza into Israel. Hamas then tunneled into Israel, killed two soldiers, captured one, took him back into Gaza and demanded a prisoner exchange.

Israel's response was to abduct half of the Palestinian cabinet and parliament and blow up a $50 million U.S.-insured power plant. That cut off electricity for half a million Palestinians. Their food spoiled, their water could not be purified, and their families sweltered in the summer heat of the Gaza desert. One family of seven was wiped out on a beach by what the IDF assures us was an errant artillery shell.

Let it be said: Israel has a right to defend herself, a right to counter-attack against Hezbollah and Hamas, a right to clean out bases from which Katyusha or Qassam rockets are being fired and a right to occupy land from which attacks are mounted on her people.

But what Israel is doing is imposing deliberate suffering on civilians, collective punishment on innocent people, to force them to do something they are powerless to do: disarm the gunmen among them. Such a policy violates international law and comports neither with our values nor our interests. It is un-American and un-Christian.

But where are the Christians? Why is Pope Benedict virtually alone among Christian leaders to have spoken out against what is being done to Lebanese Christians and Muslims?

When al-Qaida captured two U.S. soldiers and barbarically butchered them, the U.S. Army did not smash power plants across the Sunni Triangle. Why then is Bush not only silent but openly supportive when Israelis do this?

Democrats attack Bush for crimes of which he is not guilty, including Haditha and Abu Ghraib. Why are they, too, silent when Israel pursues a conscious policy of collective punishment of innocent peoples?

Britain's diplomatic goal in two world wars was to bring the naive cousins in, to "pull their chestnuts out of the fire." Israel and her paid and pro-bono agents here appear determined to expand the Iraq war into Syria and Iran, and have America fight and finish all of Israel's enemies.

That Tel Aviv is maneuvering us to fight its wars is understandable. That Americans are ignorant of, or complicit in this, is deplorable.

Already, Bush is ranting about Syria being behind the Hezbollah capture of the Israeli soldiers. But where is the proof?

Who is whispering in his ear? The same people who told him Iraq was maybe months away from an atom bomb, that an invasion would be a "cakewalk," that he would be Churchill, that U.S. troops would be greeted with candy and flowers, that democracy would break out across the region, that Palestinians and Israelis would then sit down and make peace?

How much must America pay for the education of this man?

© 2006 Creators Syndicate Inc.

stripersnipr
07-19-2006, 05:41 PM
I must've missed his condemnation of Bus Bombings. No wonder he doesn't have a chance in Hell of being President.

spence
07-19-2006, 05:46 PM
He doesn't stand a chance of being President because of his immigration policy :)

You didn't miss anything.

-spence

spence
07-19-2006, 06:20 PM
Another good read...by Lou Dobbs...

Dobbs: Not so smart when it comes to the Middle East
By Lou Dobbs
CNN

NEW YORK (CNN) -- We Americans like to think we're a pretty smart people, even when evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. And nowhere is that evidence more overwhelming than in the Middle East. History in the Middle East is everything, and we Americans seem to learn nothing from it.

President Harry Truman took about 20 minutes to recognize the state of Israel when it declared independence in 1948. Since then, more than 58 years of war, terrorism and blood-letting have led to the events of the past week.

Even now, as Katyusha rockets rain down on northern Israel and Israeli fighter jets blast Hezbollah targets in southern Lebanon, we simultaneously decry radical Islamist terrorism and Israel's lack of restraint in defending itself.

And the U.S. government, which wants no part of a cease-fire until Israel is given every opportunity to rescue its kidnapped soldiers and destroy as many Hezbollah and Hezbollah armaments as possible, urges caution in the interest of preserving a nascent and fragile democratic government in Lebanon. Could we be more conflicted?

While the United States provides about $2.5 billion in military and economic aid to Israel each year, U.S. aid to Lebanon amounts to no more than $40 million. This despite the fact that the per capita GDP of Israel is among the highest in the world at $24,600, nearly four times as high as Lebanon's GDP per capita of $6,200.

Lebanon's lack of wealth is matched by the Palestinians -- three out of every four Palestinians live below the poverty line. Yet the vast majority of our giving in the region flows to Israel. This kind of geopolitical inconsistency and shortsightedness has contributed to the Arab-Israeli conflict that the Western world seems content to allow to perpetuate endlessly.

After a week of escalating violence, around two dozen Israelis and roughly 200 Lebanese have died. That has been sufficient bloodshed for United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan and British Prime Minister Tony Blair to join in the call for an international security force, ignoring the fact that a U.N. force is already in Southern Lebanon, having failed to secure the border against Hezbollah's incursions and attacks and the murder and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers.

As our airwaves fill with images and sounds of exploding Hezbollah rockets and Israeli bombs, this seven-day conflict has completely displaced from our view another war in which 10 Americans and more than 300 Iraqis have died during the same week. And it is a conflict now of more than three years duration that has claimed almost 15,000 lives so far this year alone.

An estimated 50,000 Iraqis and more than 2,500 American troops have been killed since the insurgency began in March of 2003, which by some estimates is more than the number of dead on both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict over the past 58 years of wars and intifadas.

Yet we have seen no rescue ships moving up the Euphrates for Iraqis who are dying in their streets, markets and mosques each day. French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin has not leaped to Baghdad as he did Beirut. And there are no meetings of the Arab League, and no U.S. diplomacy with Egypt, Syria and Jordan directed at ending the Iraqi conflict.

In the Middle East, where is our sense of proportion? Where is our sense of perspective? Where is our sense of decency? And, finally, just how smart are we?

spence
07-19-2006, 06:23 PM
I'd note that President Bush's highlight of the week so far was to use his first VETO ever against a bill that everyone but the social conservative extreme right wing is for.

Joe, ya happy now :) :hee: :hihi: :hs: :wavey:

-spence

Skitterpop
07-19-2006, 08:57 PM
If Pat actually thought those thoughts then wrote that article I would be suprised. Its way too reasonable and logical.

Good read though :cheers:




Skip..... ?

JoeP
07-20-2006, 08:57 AM
I'd note that President Bush's highlight of the week so far was to use his first VETO ever against a bill that everyone but the social conservative extreme right wing is for.

Joe, ya happy now :) :hee: :hihi: :hs: :wavey:

-spence

You talkin' to me?

No, I'm not happy. Israel is teaching us how to properly prosecute a war against a ruthless, nationless, belligerent enemy. I think we forgot how.

And by the way, President Bush vetoed the use of federal funds for embryonic stem cell research, not the actual legality of the research. Do you know enough about that research to favor committing your federal tax dollars to support it? I sure don't. Have you been assured that there are sufficient moral and ethical protections of human life in embryonic versus adult stem cell research to support it with all Americans' federal tax dollars? I sure haven't. And I think you're being a little extreme yourself in saying that only the "social conservative extreme right wing" supported the decision. Its a lot more than that.

That's enough, don't drag me into these debates anymore. You'll just get me in trouble. :hihi:

Skip N
07-20-2006, 09:16 AM
You talkin' to me?

No, I'm not happy. Israel is teaching us how to properly prosecute a war against a ruthless, nationless, belligerent enemy. I think we forgot how.

And by the way, President Bush vetoed the use of federal funds for embryonic stem cell research, not the actual legality of the research. Do you know enough about that research to favor committing your federal tax dollars to support it? I sure don't. Have you been assured that there are sufficient moral and ethical protections of human life in embryonic versus adult stem cell research to support it with all Americans' federal tax dollars? I sure haven't. And I think you're being a little extreme yourself in saying that only the "social conservative extreme right wing" supported the decision. Its a lot more than that.

That's enough, don't drag me into these debates anymore. You'll just get me in trouble. :hihi:

You're right, the bill has nothing to do with banning stem cell research of any kind. Its about using federal funds to fund the reseacrh. Spence can do research on embryos 24/7 if he so chooses. He just wont get any money from the feds.

spence
07-20-2006, 11:31 AM
Israel is teaching us how to properly prosecute a war against a ruthless, nationless, belligerent enemy. I think we forgot how.
So you're saying that pounding a budding democracy back 20 years, thereby destroying it's ability to grow and promoting the very despair that radical Islam feeds from...

...is the "proper" way to fight terrorisim :confused:

Dude, that's really, really wacked out :hs:

Do you know enough about that research to favor committing your federal tax dollars to support it?
In a heartbeat.

I also know that government funded scientific research has created tremendous breakthroughs in the past that have enriched the domestic economy and our quality of life.

The World is changing before our eyes and as a Nation we're stuck in the mud. Investment in science like stem cell research isn't just prudent, it's going to be critical to the survival of our economic leadership position in the global economy the first half of this century.

The competition is running faster than we are.

-spence

likwid
07-20-2006, 11:37 AM
No, I'm not happy. Israel is teaching us how to properly prosecute a war against a ruthless, nationless, belligerent enemy. I think we forgot how.

You mean by killing civilians? Apparently they're doing a good job at that.

And I think we're trying to forget the times we did that.

stripersnipr
07-20-2006, 11:59 AM
You mean by killing civilians? Apparently they're doing a good job at that.

And I think we're trying to forget the times we did that.

Why in the Hell are you not showing the same outrage against the groups who do by their own self admission target civilians as a routine ongoing process? You think they are aiming their rockets at Miltary targets in Israel? Dont say you are condemning Hezbollah because your one-sided posts in no way reflect that. When I say civilians I mean us. People like you, me and our families, Americans are there sworn enemies. Instead you adamantly condemn the country that is destroying the people who want us dead. And your point that Israel is targeting children is ludicrous. Maybe the safety of your family and friends are not as important to you as ours are to the rest of us. This maybe a complex overall issue but it really boils down to some simple premises. They want us dead and there is nothing you or I can do to stop them other than plain old basic self defense as in destroy those who wish us harm. Bearing guilt and self loathing aint gonna stop Terrorism (and thats what Hezbollah is Terrorists, with no quotation marks). I admit this maybe a selfish point of view but guess what, I dont care. The security of me and mine is far more important to me then the security of them and theirs.

Skip N
07-20-2006, 12:02 PM
You mean by killing civilians? Apparently they're doing a good job at that.

And I think we're trying to forget the times we did that.

Where is your outrage at hezbalah for only targeting civilians? Thats all they go after, they dont go after anything of strategic military importance. All they do is attempt to murder innocent Isrealis. Isreals actions have sadly caused civilian deaths, but they are not the targets they are after. Isreal is going after Hezbalah, not civilians.

Skip N
07-20-2006, 12:07 PM
Why in the Hell are you not showing the same outrage against the groups who do by their own self admission target civilians as a routine ongoing process? You think they are aiming their rockets at Miltary targets in Israel? Dont say you are condemning Hezbollah because your one-sided posts in no way reflect that. When I say civilians I mean us. People like you, me and our families, Americans are there sworn enemies. Instead you adamantly condemn the country that is destroying the people who want us dead. And your point that Israel is targeting children is ludicrous. Maybe the safety of your family and friends are not as important to you as ours are to the rest of us. This maybe a complex overall issue but it really boils down to some simple premises. They want us dead and there is nothing you or I can do to stop them other than plain old basic self defense as in destroy those who wish us harm. Bearing guilt and self loathing aint gonna stop Terrorism (and thats what Hezbollah is Terrorists, with no quotation marks). I admit this maybe a selfish point of view but guess what, I dont care. The security of me and mine is far more important to me then the security of them and theirs.

Well said, Likwid will never understand this however, for some reason he can't see the difference in Hezbalah targeting civilians only, and Isreal going after armed, murderious terroists. I dont get his thinking :huh: And yes, his recent posts suggest that he has some sympathy for Hezbalah and lots of rage towards Isreal. Maybe i'm wrong but thats what i'm seeing :huh:

JoeP
07-20-2006, 12:34 PM
Spence,

We just see things alot differently :hs: - lets leave it at that & stick to fishing. I'm not going to debate this stuff here. :D

And Likwid, I've read some of your posts and I'm not even going to try.

Skitterpop
07-20-2006, 12:46 PM
Where is your outrage at hezbalah for only targeting civilians? Thats all they go after, they dont go after anything of strategic military importance. All they do is attempt to murder innocent Isrealis. Isreals actions have sadly caused civilian deaths, but they are not the targets they are after. Isreal is going after Hezbalah, not civilians.

Skip...this above statement does`nt make any sense. You are saying Hezbollah never has military targets? Were the soldiers killed and kidnapped going to a costume ball :spin: ? How old are you Skip... if I may ask?

Skip N
07-20-2006, 01:02 PM
Skip...this above statement does`nt make any sense. You are saying Hezbollah never has military targets? Were the soldiers killed and kidnapped going to a costume ball :spin: ? How old are you Skip... if I may ask?

Hezbalah is a terroist organization that goes after mostly civilians, and yes, they will gladly go after all Isreali military forces if givin the chance. But most, if not all of thier targets the last week have been civilians only. Am i wrong? I think not.

They are firing random missles and they could care less where they hit. Children, Military, they dont care, as long as a dead Israeli is on the other side end of the explosion. Thats all they care about. And you know this is true.

Skip N
07-20-2006, 01:06 PM
Spence,

We just see things alot differently :hs: - lets leave it at that & stick to fishing. I'm not going to debate this stuff here. :D

And Likwid, I've read some of your posts and I'm not even going to try.

Likwid might be one of the 5% of Americans from the latest CNN poll that supports Hezbalah. How can 5% of Americans support a terroist group!?

I hope i'm wrong likwid, but i can only judge you by your posts, and your post seem to lean towards you having some strange sympathy for Hezbalah. Please tell me im wrong though.

Skitterpop
07-20-2006, 01:19 PM
[quote=Skip N] But most, if not all of thier targets the last week have been civilians only. Am i wrong?

Answer: Yes you are very very wrong.



I think not. <<<< and this is why....study, LISTEN, and read.

RIJIMMY
07-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Im staying out of all this too, its too to tiring. But, Spence, thanks for posting those articles, I dont necessarily agree but I appreciate Buchanans and Dobbs opinion.