Was down Cape this past week,and my friend's next store neighbor had retired the 18' whaler after 20+ years of service. In her spot on the dock I noticed a new 18' Parker CC. After a little small talk I mentioned the new boat, and he told me he was not happy with it. He told me the boat rides hard in 2 footers and bangs. He has played with the trim, and can't seem to get a better ride.

What makes a diffrerence in how a hull rides? I thought Parkers were great riding hulls?

Also for you Seacraft guys how do 20' SF ride ? I am thinking of a project hull, but want something that won't pound.

whats he got for an outboard on it and how much fuel was he carrying that it pounded so bad?

i've ridden in a couple parkers and the only time they pounded was WOT.

but only the stupid and those who don't care about their wallets can afford to do that currently

Trim tabs will help.

The Parker is a nice hull. It doesn't have a lot of deadrise though. What you'll find out is; a boat that gives a soft ride generally isn't real stable at rest and vice versa. The Seacraft is a very nice ride with its variable deadrise. Though it's copied by several manufacturers now, it's somewhat unique. Great hull design. Very much sought after. haven't seen too many that weren't "projects". I know we have a few SC owners here on the site and hope they don't bash me for having said that. I would like one myself.:hidin:

The more deadrise a hull has the smoother the ride but the down side is you need more HP to get on plane and get more kts than a flatter bottom hull.

Parker's are a nock off of the old sea ox..a real work horse..not really made for zipping around in fast...they have a semi-v bottom..it's a very good stable work platform... .very little roll...but do pound in a quartering sea as only the bow has the v and flatten's out about mid-ships with a flat bottom in the stern. Also good for shallow water as it doesn't draw alot of water and get's up on plane faster because of the flat bottom.

20' seacraft..deep v....bring on the 4 footer's w/white caps...good for two when fishing....115 to 150 hp....turn your base ball cap backwards or lose it.

See the discussion under the topic of deadrise. I believe the Parkers are a semi V hull which will pound when pushed hard enough into a head sea.

I agree totally with capesams. The potter built seacrafts INHO might be the best designed small hull ever and they built them heavy not like the newer seacrafts. MV hulls will pound versus a DV hull which slices the water but rocks more.

What is the unique aspect of the seacraft hull design is that instead of spray strips to separate the flow at speed, the design uses a series of steps in the hull wedge. Most deep V's today have a chine like strip to separate and deflect the flow and this causes a positve presure region under the strip, and inturn tends to reduces the deadrise effectiveness. You need to separate the flow to reduce the wetted area and have a dry ride somehow and what seacraft did was have a inward longitudal step in the hull to obtain separation but without reducing the effectiveness of the V by putting a large spray strip or chine. The result was a very soft riding hull for its size. (Without a lines drawing of common V and a seacraft this is the best I can do to explain why it is better) Look at a seacaft bow on and any other boat, the seacraft hull looks inside out. (sortof)

As for the "old" vs the "new" hulls I think there is a lot of personal issues dealing with this as the lines of the hull and the design principles are the same. I prefer the new hulls as 1) they have no wood in them and 2) they are lighter 3) the resins today are better in seawater. Back in the 70's they used wood for various structual elements and this basically was a bad idea and most of them eventually rotted. I will take a 100% glass boat and if I want a "heaver" boat I will carry more fuel or payload. The weight adds to a softer ride in any boat. But you pay to carry weight around.

I think the cult following of the older boats has evolved because that you can pick them up pretty cheap, fix them up (with a lot of sweat equity) and have a good hull in the end. I think it is great to see the older boats around and I know the owners are proud of the design and their hard work.

Soundings or some other mag I get did a review a while back of the 10 best hull designs ever and seacraft was among them. ***For the size*** this hullform gives you an impressive ride. (its a little boat though, keep that in mind)

older hulls you can:

leave on a trailer for years without the fear of the rollers pushing the bottom in.

you can drill just about anywhere and only need washers to back up the bolt...not alum. plating or starboard or wood.

the sides don't flex like tin and won't spider crack.

punch a hole in anywhere and you have some meat that surrounds that hole to work with/repair.

they can take a pounding and keep on going.

I've seen half the bottom taken off of an older 23 seacraft by a floating log and it came home from offshore safe and sound[thick hull] wouldn't want to try that with a new boat / thin new an approved resin's.:hidin:

Amen. :lm: When your miles offshore I like to know I'm riding a seaworthy safe overbuilt boat for peace of mind.

Im just starting a long term project on a 20' Seacraft. You would not believe the amount of glass laid up on these boats. 35 years old, hull mint, stringers mint, floor solid, transom solid, not many boats built these days would last that long.

...hull mint, stringers mint, floor solid, transom solid....

So whats the project? sounds like new power, some new electronics and maybe some paint and you are off to the races?

converting the 650lb i/o thats sinking the scuppers 1.5 inches below the waterline to an o/b. Raising the floor 2" , repositiong the fuel tank forward and converting the cuddy (Seafari model) to a CC by cutting the top off and remolding the cap edges w/ supports. Will also need a few rib supports added into the hull as well. :shocked:

converting the 650lb i/o thats sinking the scuppers 1.5 inches below the waterline to an o/b. Raising the floor 2" , repositiong the fuel tank forward and converting the cuddy (Seafari model) to a CC by cutting the top off and remolding the cap edges w/ supports. Will also need a few rib supports added into the hull as well. :shocked:

Hey ND - take a look on CSC in Trayder's (he owns CSC) pics to get an idea on when he rebuilt his 20 from near scratch. In fact, when you are up in the NPT area I can probably arrange a quick Q&A with him plus seeing the boat if you are interested.... Good luck with that project...

I'm not a nautical engineer like some here ;) but some of the advantages of the Seacraft hull is that because the longitudal steps decrease in deadrise from the center of the hull and out, you get a cushioning effect as the hull goes in the water with each outboard step flatter than the inside. So the advange is that you have a deep V center step but a more tame outermost step to mitigate some of the roll of a DeepV. The disadvantage is it still takes a lot of HP to get this hull (like most other deep Vs) up on plane and to remain on plane.

There are more than a few 20' boats with 90hp outboards that do OK but you'd need at least 115 on the 20 SC. The odd 23 footers have 175s but a 23SC is going to want 225 or more...

Thanks John, I would really appreciate that. CSC is an incredible resource for anyone redoing any boat. Ive looked over Trayders pics a million times :) as well as all of the other 20 projects, and have a good idea of the direction Im gonna go for each step.

Krispy....just a note of caution...be carefull of moving the tank to far forward...that and leaving the cabin on can put to much weight forward making it bow heavy..rain water or any other water may run forward and not drain out the scupper's without adding lots of weight in the stern......this happened to a man I know who did the very same thing your thinking of doing, but he did it to a 23.

Thanks for heads up CS. I will be removing the forward cuddy section. Originally the tank sat directly ahead (6") of the i/o, adding alot of weight to the stern of the boat. The new tank position will be more amidships, but still a good 2-2.5ft forward of the old location.
Will the 38gal be sufficient for a 130-150hp o/b? Its in excellent condition, so Id like to reuse it if it makes sense.

You might consider doing a few hydrostatic calculations to determine what the static trim will be for various tank/engine sizes and loctaions.

I've spent a lot of time in the 18 Parker. It pounds in chop. Not much deadrise and it just does NOT like the chop kicked up by an afternoon sea breeze off RI.

Safe boat and we always get where we're going, often we get wet though. Incredily fuel effecient and fast (on flat water) with the 115 Yamaha, but how often is it flat off RI?

Deep V or at least semi all the way, unless you like being sent running for cover every time the sea breeze kicks up.

You have to ride in a 23 Seacraft to appreciate it. I completely restored this boat with my father and now do custom charters out of it for smaller groups or specialty fishing we might not do on the Blackfin.

The straight inboards ride even better than the outboards, but they are not as fast. I took the wing curtains off this year because I never need them.

U should get some good mileage out of that tank....I had a 30gal in my old 20' ox with a 150 yam on it...all day on the water an no worries getting home..corse I'm not known to be a speed demon either so milage may differ with who's behind the wheel...A friend has a 1973 20' cc sc. with a 150...with him it's dead stop or all out...reguardless of sea conditions....one :eek: sob to ride with..but we/re still both here.

You have to ride in a 23 Seacraft to appreciate it. I completely restored this boat with my father and now do custom charters out of it for smaller groups or specialty fishing we might not do on the Blackfin.

The straight inboards ride even better than the outboards, but they are not as fast. I took the wing curtains off this year because I never need them.

very very nice job done on restoring her....clean line's....what year is she?

The straight inboards ride even better than the outboards, but they are not as fast. I took the wing curtains off this year because I never need them.

Captain Chet from Noreast Charters said the 23 SC was the best fiberglass boat in that size class you could own for Buzzards Bay fishing

I owned a 20' seacraft superfisherman center console, built 1986, bought lightly used. Had it for 6-8 years. I loved it, used it hard, but it was NOT a well built boat by any stretch. It eventually fell apart from rot in the deck and transom (the center console also tore free once running at night to Nantucket). Sank because of the notorious plexiglas access plate in the splashwell. Cracked my hull once hauling it as well. It was powered with an Ocean Pro 150 hp engine and would do 25-27 kts tops, cruised closer to 21 -22 (with the right prop). Not real fuel efficent. Had a 75 gallon fuel tank and I often burned 30+ gallons in a day's fishing (60-75 nautical miles) Needed a low pitch prop to avoid cavitation in rough seas. Hard for me to believe guys run their's with 115's. I suspect many of those are actually old 19 footers which also exist. Mine needed trim tabs big time though I never put them on. It was a decent sea boat, but much less so than the heavier 21 ft Regulator I replaced it with (which is a boxier, uglier but higher freeboard affair). Not real comfortable once it blew more than 15 Kts where I fish (vineyard sound). Wasn't very dry either (although tabs would've helped) Very tippy boat, two people in the same spot roll it way over and two in the stern brought water in the scuppers. I had to move the batteries out of the stern and into the console just so I could stand back there myself. Maybe the older pre 73 boats were better, but most of them must have serious rot issues. There is a lot of info on the net about rebuilding them, but if you go that route I'd look for an old heavier built one. All that said, it was a great one man fishing design and, even though I own a much better boat now, I miss it.

Numbskull - that was one of the later owners, CSY, though they were well regarded too. The Potter hulls, 68 to 79, and the more rare Mosely hulls, pre 68, are typically the more sought after. Of course they all need work now that they are old and they can all build a poor boat from time to time.

Exhibit A - the 1999 or so 25 seacrafts which nearly shake a part, voids in the glass, lack of stringers extending all the way back. In fact, by your description, it sounded like a Tracker Seacraft 25 :shocked:

up to the year 83 or 85 was the last year for the good hull's..co. got sold and they went down the tube's.

85 was the last year of the good hulls post Potter and Pre tracker.

I prefer the new hulls as 1) they have no wood in them and 2) they are lighter 3) the resins today are better in seawater. Back in the 70's they used wood for various structual elements and this basically was a bad idea and most of them eventually rotted.

That's basically true. If someone gets a Potter hull they should assume that they will need to redo the transom and floor. However they are the only places that there is wood. The stringers are boxed fiberglass.

The newer boats are better in overall design in many ways as you've pointed out. The big problem is inconsistent/poor quality. The worse problem is stringers coming loose from the hull. That just doesn't seem to happen with the Potter hulls.

Captain Chet from Noreast Charters said the 23 SC was the best fiberglass boat in that size class you could own for Buzzards Bay fishing

Regulator 23 will run circles around 23 SC on Buzzards bay in 2-3ft slop. I have fished both, on buzzards bay for that matter, and there is a big difference.

Regulator 23 will run circles around 23 SC on Buzzards bay in 2-3ft slop. I have fished both, on buzzards bay for that matter, and there is a big difference.


Motion seconded.

I'll take the additional roll that a true deep V causes anyday over having my kidneys re-arranged or being forced to dramatically slow down to deal with chop.

The Regulator deep V of the 23 and 24 almost makes 2 to 3 foot chop disappear.

Damn, you guys are some players..
All I know is guys like me, dont have $85k for a new 23' Regulator/Seacraft or even $50k for 20' SC/Contender, and are limited to good deals, used boats and some elbow grease to get a good riding hull.
You might as well be talking Ferrari vs Lamborghini
So how bout we debate an 1980 SC vs 1973 Seabird vs 1984 Mako vs 1990 Parker
Real world projects for everyday people
Which are the best riding boats, pre 1988?

You're on the right track, rebuilding a 20' seacraft. There was also a popular 19 foot hull called a capecodder that I think was built in mattapoisset which was popular with the commerical guys back then and was probably more fuel efficent (i never rode in one). A 21 mako (@1986 when they reissued it) was a decent riding boat, but stay away from the 20 mako, which pounded a lot. If you're planning to go far or fish with more than one other guy, look into a 23 seacraft, though by the time you are done rebuilding and repowering the savings are marginal.

Regulator 23 will run circles around 23 SC on Buzzards bay in 2-3ft slop. I have fished both, on buzzards bay for that matter, and there is a big difference.

Zacs, it's a little apples to oranges because of the drive system, but I'll put a 23 Seacraft straight inboard up against any boat in it's size range when the weather turns nasty.

Next time we have a sporty day say 4-6's I'll do a side by side comparison with you.

I still wouldn't give up my older 23 seacrapper for anything new even if I had bundle's of cash....there's also a 21-22'er called a hy-liner that's a wave eatter too...capecodder's were still being built in so. chatham not long ago and may still be.........most guy's[comm.] that make a living off the water here , [older23's i/o's]seacraft is number one...capecodder's are number two. those with deep pocket's buy what is called a [forgot the name:smash: ] which is a hull taken off a 23 sc an extended to 24'.

Get a Mackenzie. :hihi:

Regulator 23 will run circles around 23 SC on Buzzards bay in 2-3ft slop. I have fished both, on buzzards bay for that matter, and there is a big difference.

My point is that some of the BB/Cutty guides like him - in the day - preffered the 23SC as the best glass guide boat.

They didn't have 23 Regulators back then, and you'd be real hard pressed to find a 23' Regulator today that could be bought and fished for less than 15K.

My point is that some of the BB/Cutty guides like him - in the day - preffered the 23SC as the best glass guide boat.

They didn't have 23 Regulators back then, and you'd be real hard pressed to find a 23' Regulator today that could be bought and fished for less than 15K.

very true. i didn't realize we were talkin back in the day.

but for the record, you could get in a nice used regulator for around 35K.
i would like to see any good 23 ft boat you can buy turn key for 15K. seacraft, mako, parker, aquasport, seabird, whatever...

Back in my day, no one dared fish Sow and Pigs without a skeg. That pretty much ruled out inboard seacrafts.

Back in my day, no one dared fish Sow and Pigs without a skeg. That pretty much ruled out inboard seacrafts.
The boats back then for sow & pigs were Crosby's, Tripp Angler's and small Harris Cuttyhunk's etc... I agree, most were straight inboards with skegs, it made you feel more comfortable when you felt the bump underneath you, I remember it from when I was a kid.

The boats back then for sow & pigs were Crosby's, Tripp Angler's and small Harris Cuttyhunk's etc... I agree, most were straight inboards with skegs, it made you feel more comfortable when you felt the bump underneath you, I remember it from when I was a kid.

Tripp Anglers were far and few between, round bilge = rolls like hell if you were on the sow in any kind of swell.

There were also alot of Brownells and Surf Hunters.

Infact the Surf Hunters live on in aluminum over there now. :hihi:
There's never been a modern setup that compares to the abilities of a Surf Hunter with the forward casting platform with controls.

Krispy we will have to compare notes as I have recently started my 69 Sea Craft 20 resto, I am going back with the I/O that it came with much better lines and much safer IMO. Weird part about it is I think I bought my dads first boat, I am trying to track down owners with little success. My new transom is all cut out just needs to get glassed in (this weekend)

. those with deep pocket's buy what is called a [forgot the name:smash: ] which is a hull taken off a 23 sc an extended to 24'.

Are you thinking of the Topaz or the Silverhawk? Both are sweet, but pricey. The one with the inboard on a jackshaft has a nice cockpit.

that's it.."silverhawk"..all I could think of was seahawk which was a cheap copy of a seaox.

Silverhawk was bought by Topaz... Pretty nice boats....

Let's see - knock off of Seacraft hulls:

Silverhawk (probably the best knock off)
Cape Cod Marine 26 (stretched 23) / now Albin 26
Sailfish
Palm Beach
Quonset Point 25
Helms 21

A few others but all I can think of off the top of my head....

old formulas 23' was a hull of a hell!

Cape, that Hi liner hull is a 222 pretty sweet old ride. Theres one or two nice ones around. The only thing that will make me sell my 74' 20 seacraft is a 23' seacraft. :rotfl:

I am on my 3rd season w/my Parker23se. I love this boat. Trim tabs combined w/a few clicks of motor trim is the key to a good ride. It took me a full season to learn how to trim the boat in the range of sea conditions you encounter throughout the year. I am rarely forced to drop my speed under 18 knots due to water conditions. Cruising speed in 28 knots at 7 gallons per hour, can’t do that with a 21 degree deadrise.
Granted, I have had a few wet/bumpy rides home but slamming really isn’t an issue.

I fish very tight to the rocks in turbulent water and she sits very well. Stable enough for me to get a fly into the white water and get to the controls to get out when I get too close.
This is my 4th boat over 20' and is by far the best. A few members have been out w/me in lovely November weather and they were very impressed with a ten mile ride home in a nasty cold water chop.

You have to ride in a 23 Seacraft to appreciate it. I completely restored this boat with my father and now do custom charters out of it for smaller groups or specialty fishing we might not do on the Blackfin.

The straight inboards ride even better than the outboards, but they are not as fast. I took the wing curtains off this year because I never need them.


Awesome job, how many hours into it?
I would love to find one to take a long project on.
While I fish my Maritime 2090 of course.


Bill

older hulls you can:

leave on a trailer for years without the fear of the rollers pushing the bottom in.

you can drill just about anywhere and only need washers to back up the bolt...not alum. plating or starboard or wood.

the sides don't flex like tin and won't spider crack.

punch a hole in anywhere and you have some meat that surrounds that hole to work with/repair.

they can take a pounding and keep on going.

I've seen half the bottom taken off of an older 23 seacraft by a floating log and it came home from offshore safe and sound[thick hull] wouldn't want to try that with a new boat / thin new an approved resin's.:hidin:


'Nuff said

What do you guys think about the ride in a 83 21 Mako ? I just bought one, and would like some feed back on it

HiLiners 22'
Awesome looking boats
http://www.gandsmarine.com/boatsforsale/images/Hiliner22.JPG
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album60/3_G.thumb.jpg

PS. I chopped the cap at the transom on Tuesday, and will be cutting the rest of the engine box out Friday night. I may be able to use part of it as a splash well. Im still attempting to remove the volvo i/o, this things got bolts in the most awkward places. Theres been some previous work done in the back, some of it sloppy. So far the transom wood looks solid, we'll get a better idea after the outdrive gets removed.
Saturday I plan on doing the rough cut to remove the cuddy and begin removing the floor down to the stringers.
My wifes back :cheers: (she took the my new camera), so Ill post some pics over the wekend

they shore r....most that I've seen around here have been turned into cc...there's one not far from me that the guy put a dog house on and a new 225 honda on a bracket.Two other's r just like your pic and a third one is being rebuilt, another cc.

If that`s the pic that`s showing, it`s a NICE looking rig. How do these boats compare ride wise ?

I'm sorry to say I've never been in a mako or hy-liner,,,what I watch is when the offshore jigger's go out an come back in later, I take note of their ride's....seacraft//hy-liner//capecodder...around here anyway's....these folk's work every day on their boat's, so they must know what works as to what hull's are best.

i just got my boat but am already thinking of my upgrade... this boat is a good base line and now i know what i want for my next boat.

these are two totally differnt setups but i like both..

what do you guys thing of a 21ft sea swirl walk around
or a 22ft eastern lobsterman. both seem to be pretty good bang for your buck and you could pick up a used one for under 30 if you look hard enough. today... those would be the two id choose from, different yes, but i like both styles...today ;) tomorrow?? well who knows.

Still fish my "stock" 71 Seacraft Seafari hard several days a week. Passed down from my dad to me and I figure it will go to my son after I'm done with it! Look me up in 35 years and let me know how that brand "X" is holding out.:humpty:

Mackenzie.

i am really looking forward to your progress pictures, Krispy

I just read somewhere that the Hi-liners (Ray Hunt design) were very closely modeled after the 20' Bertram, minus 1 chine. If thats the case they should run pretty nice

Got some fun air tools delivered last night from Homiers. A little body saw (reciprocating) and 4" cutting wheel and picking up a cheapo angle grinder over the w/e. WEEEEE!!
Pics 2nite

24 grit disc..old glass is tough.

Heres the album:
http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m47/Seafari20/

looking good. keep us updated. I am really excited to see that thing opened up...

looking good. keep us updated. I am really excited to see that thing opened up...

Opened up as in Wide Open Throttle?

Or Opened up as in you can visually inspect the stringers from Google Earth?


Keep up the good work Krispy! What is your timeline for fishing the boat?

Thanks guys, Ill update some pics tonite. I removed the entire engine box, I can see possibly re-using part of it to make a splashwell. The floor was surprisingly solid throughout.
I thought initially 1 year, August of 2007. But things are moving quicker than expected, so I hope to have the hull complete by spring, $$ depending.

Ill start a new thread so I can update it as it progresses