I was in the M&Ds today and noticed the new "pro series" plugs. They look just like some of the Habs plugs...whats the scoop?

I was in the M&Ds today and noticed the new "pro series" plugs. They look just like some of the Habs plugs...whats the scoop?]]

They look just like them but you can see the difference in quality. I'm also not convinced that VMC's on those plugs are the same quality that Hab's, Tattoo etc. use. Kind of looks like the hooks that come on a Yozuri pencil popper.

They fish just fine, Sugar pine as opposed to Maple so they stay up near the surface more. More to it than meets the eye though.

More to it than meets the eye though.[/QUOTE] ..........................You got that right Flap...................

U know what flap ur defense of Gibbs crap don't hold water anymore sorry.IT IS NO LONGER STANS COMPANY.
The pencils r Crap.Fishem for a 1/2 hr an they no longer work.soak up water like a sponge.U gotta buy 3 or 4 an rotate thru em then hang em in front of he dehumidifier to use em the next day.needed pencils this spring had to go to em.first thing I do is cut the wire an rewire em wit spro swivels.Cause i had fish just rip thier swivels apart. I have seen some other amazing stuff.like the wire ripped thru the plug.I use a harder wire that don't bend over when a 3 oz plug bounces on a rock.
Throw away the joke of a hook MUSTAD an use a 6x 4/0 front an a 5/0 rear VMC;'s.then I could fish em with confidence.Nice for a plug that cost 18 bucks.
Thats why a got a few habs for the smaller stuff.An 10 from Mac.plus the ones I make myself over the winter I should be alright.That is i won't have to use the CRAP.FROM GIBBS.

One day back in July I bought 3 Gibbs Pencils and like NIB, I had to get em cuz I needed em. Anywayz, by the end of the day only 1 was left fishable with 2 of them destroyed, cracked from tail to nose. Lesson learned eh? Never again will I buy Gibbs lures when for 2 or 3 bucks more I can get Mac's, Habs, Saltys, whoevers, and fish em right outa the package with confidence. Gibbs has gone down the toilet as far as quality is concerned.

i think its a HUGE compliment to habs for a company like that to duplicate the style.....reason being quite simply..because HABS plugs catches BIG fish

i think its a HUGE compliment to habs for a company like that to duplicate the style.....reason being quite simply..because HABS plugs catches BIG fish


May look like a HABS but it aint. I remember my granfather telling me years ago that, " David,you can take $300 french perfume and sprinkle it all over a pile of ****, and while it may smell better, it's still a pile of ****" :uhuh:

May look like a HABS but it aint. I remember my granfather telling me years ago that, " David,you can take $300 french perfume and sprinkle it all over a pile of ****, and while it may smell better, it's still a pile of ****" :uhuh:

dave,
understood that

when I was over the habratory and John told me about what was happening..I couldn't believe it... think they had it at the show...is that right habs

there is NOTHING that compared to a habs....

I'll stay in the middle on this only cause I see copying going on both sides an other's doing the same thing [comm. builder's].. I do get a laugh out of the wiring thing though.....the wire in gibb;s hasn't changed in 50 year's,same stuff..but never heard boo from the old beach gang as to how it did or didn't hold up....and you may as well started on beachmaster too cause it;s the same wire he uses.Gibbs only needs to start sealing their plug's and maybe change the swivels and they'd be back to being at the top as they once were.I also see all this xxx an xxxx hardware an think it's only a market ploy..stop an look at all the old plug's an you'd think a chipmunk could destroy that,,but yet it all survived with all the 50-60-70lb fish and very few got away.....everyone has their .02 worth on thing's and complain about other's crap, but we're all guilty on one count{ we've all copied from those who came before us}

I'll stay in the middle on this only cause I see copying going on both sides an other's doing the same thing [comm. builder's].. I do get a laugh out of the wiring thing though.....the wire in gibb;s hasn't changed in 50 year's,same stuff..but never heard boo from the old beach gang as to how it did or didn't hold up....and you may as well started on beachmaster too cause it;s the same wire he uses.Gibbs only needs to start sealing their plug's and maybe change the swivels and they'd be back to being at the top as they once were.I also see all this xxx an xxxx hardware an think it's only a market ploy..stop an look at all the old plug's an you'd think a chipmunk could destroy that,,but yet it all survived with all the 50-60-70lb fish and very few got away.....everyone has their .02 worth on thing's and complain about other's crap, but we're all guilty on one count{ we've all copied from those who came before us}


It's not the same wire in BM.The wire is thinner an softer.Way softer.
The swivels are a joke.Not sure what happened but a few yrs ago they just started failing.Maybe the same reason the Hooks are garbage.Musso saw the difference 3 yrs ago an changed out to spro's.With today's no strech braid u need tougher hardware.It is NOT a PLOY.Yrs ago the hooks where better AND guys mostly used soft action glass rods with MONO.I am not making this stuff up I have seen it happen an had it happen to me.Of course we copy STAN's design's He was the Best a true Pioneer.What new design has the new regieme of gibbs come up with the 3 oz Darter.what a joke.Here's a thought.Go Back 35 yrs.
What do u think Stan Would say..I could just see him when the hooks on a Polaris straighten out.Then they sink after a 1/2 hr.He wouldn't use there crap.He would have to buy bigger dumpsters.

It's not the same wire in BM.The wire is thinner an softer.Way softer.
The swivels are a joke.Not sure what happened but a few yrs ago they just started failing.Maybe the same reason the Hooks are garbage.Musso saw the difference 3 yrs ago an changed out to spro's.With today's no strech braid u need tougher hardware.It is NOT a PLOY.Yrs ago the hooks where better AND guys mostly used soft action glass rods with MONO.I am not making this stuff up I have seen it happen an had it happen to me.Of course we copy STAN's design's He was the Best a true Pioneer.What new design has the new regieme of gibbs come up with the 3 oz Darter.what a joke.Here's a thought.Go Back 35 yrs.
What do u think Stan Would say..I could just see him when the hooks on a Polaris straighten out.Then they sink after a 1/2 hr.He wouldn't use there crap.He would have to buy bigger dumpsters.

Tony I luv ya but without knowing the whole story your tirade here is way out of line. Gibbs makes a goog plug so does John but if we want to speak the truth here then so be it. Gibbs has on hand about between 9 and 10 thousand plugs in stock at all times. Done and ready for shipment, Someone else does not and can't ship regurlarly when customers demand needles and such, he is always up against the wall. He works 80 hours a week and is still behind and needs to hire competent help to help him out or he is gonna burn out fast and I think he is halfway there. I would hate to see that happen as that would be the end of HABS PLUGS!He makes an awesome plug and decidedly has the needlefish market in his grasp but if shops can't get them then what are they to do? VMC CANNOT SHIP in the numbers and with the reliability that Mustad, who is made in the USA still, can, Never has been able too and thats a fact, very fragmented. Shop owners will tell you the same.

Gibbs uses the same wire supplier that stan did and uses sugar pine at 8% moisture content and no knots which is very expensive. The Gibbs guys bought and run the company so that it would not go out of business, they will tell you that.

And lastly if you can come up with a truely "original" design in a plug these days I will blow you on YOUR town hall steps in NJ! It's all been done before and there ain't one plug maker out there that doesn't have problems in production or quality or components in way way shape or form. Reality what a concept heh?:eek5:

:lasso:

I have a gibbs pencil thats bout 5 years old and it is has caught more fish than anything else in the box. Its been repainted and rigged up too many times. I spray it with epoxy a few times a year just to try and keep it floating. HAvent had it fail yet, maybe i got a good one. I finally bought a replacement a couple weeks ago at mikes. HAvent used it yet. IT was the fist gibbs i have bought since i got the lucky pencil. There is no doubt that they cant hold a candle to AH, HAbs, etc., in quality. But man that plug catches fish, its a confidence thing. If i lose that old pice of repainted, semi floating wood i will prolly have a moment of silence for her. Might not even throw the replacement out of respect.

Tony I luv ya but without knowing the whole story your tirade here is way out of line. Gibbs makes a goog plug so does John but if we want to speak the truth here then so be it. Gibbs has on hand about between 9 and 10 thousand plugs in stock at all times. Done and ready for shipment, Someone else does not and can't ship regurlarly when customers demand needles and such, he is always up against the wall. He works 80 hours a week and is still behind and needs to hire competent help to help him out or he is gonna burn out fast and I think he is halfway there. I would hate to see that happen as that would be the end of HABS PLUGS!He makes an awesome plug and decidedly has the needlefish market in his grasp but if shops can't get them then what are they to do? VMC CANNOT SHIP in the numbers and with the reliability that Mustad, who is made in the USA still, can, Never has been able too and thats a fact, very fragmented. Shop owners will tell you the same.

Gibbs uses the same wire supplier that stan did and uses sugar pine at 8% moisture content and no knots which is very expensive. The Gibbs guys bought and run the company so that it would not go out of business, they will tell you that.

And lastly if you can come up with a truely "original" design in a plug these days I will blow you on YOUR town hall steps in NJ! It's all been done before and there ain't one plug maker out there that doesn't have problems in production or quality or components in way way shape or form. Reality what a concept heh?:eek5:


Not really a inside info guy.All that BS makes no nevermind to me.This ain't about habs or bm or anyone else against Gibbs.So please don't read it as a tirade.My statements where regarding thier (Gibbs) plugs only.In response to the question asked in the begining of the thread.Perhaps I chime in to often on the merits Of Habs plugs thats why it seems that way.He makes a good plug plain an simple.Gibbs product on the other hand Is NOT a good product.Plain an simple.If they have 9k on hand maybe they need to make less an pay better attention.
Same wire supplier different wire.Take a old one a check it out for urself.I just did it along with a BM like capesams said. An I am correct.Not the same.I could live with the hook thing as I am used to changin em out.How bout the swivels.
Listen I like the whole history thing with Stan. I can appreciate what he did.I also appreciate what the new guys are trying to do if what they say is right.In fact,I confronted him at The Rissa show about blatently copyin Habs 3 oz needle.I went there with a head of steam an left a puppy dog. The guy is a good guy.I couldn't do it.I still won't buy one.
Ok they Use sugar pine how about sealing it.
No need for the last part.I ain't making anything new.
I am a realist. My statements come from my own occurances or ones witnessed first hand. Perhaps ur the one blinded by history.It's not a bad thing.I know u new Stan well.This should bother u more than I.Oh ya I still love ya also.

I'm glad ya still love each other, the whole vision of Flap on his knees on some Jersey Town Hall front steps.. well that's gonna make me chuckle the rest of the day (Thank You).. I still think NIB would need a milk crate to stand on to make it work, even with Flap on his knees... :hihi: ;)

Not really a inside info guy.All that BS makes no nevermind to me.This ain't about habs or bm or anyone else against Gibbs.So please don't read it as a tirade.My statements where regarding thier (Gibbs) plugs only.In response to the question asked in the begining of the thread.Perhaps I chime in to often on the merits Of Habs plugs thats why it seems that way.He makes a good plug plain an simple.Gibbs product on the other hand Is NOT a good product.Plain an simple.If they have 9k on hand maybe they need to make less an pay better attention.
Same wire supplier different wire.Take a old one a check it out for urself.I just did it along with a BM like capesams said. An I am correct.Not the same.I could live with the hook thing as I am used to changin em out.How bout the swivels.
Listen I like the whole history thing with Stan. I can appreciate what he did.I also appreciate what the new guys are trying to do if what they say is right.In fact,I confronted him at The Rissa show about blatently copyin Habs 3 oz needle.I went there with a head of steam an left a puppy dog. The guy is a good guy.I couldn't do it.I still won't buy one.
Ok they Use sugar pine how about sealing it.
No need for the last part.I ain't making anything new.
I am a realist. My statements come from my own occurances or ones witnessed first hand. Perhaps ur the one blinded by history.It's not a bad thing.I know u new Stan well.This should bother u more than I.Oh ya I still love ya also.

Tony let's get together for some fresh (not that smoked crap) Kielbasa smothered in Marinara sauce next time your up and discuss this further. ( Maybe KarlF can suggest a good wine to go with that?) We can even go to the Gibbs factory if you like and we can discuss this with Dennis and Dan, they are always willing to listen, good or bad, and bring your junk Pencils and they will make good on them, probably let you pick through yourself to find suitable repalcements. ( I am serious on that, they will do that). As you know all you have to do is send the bad ones back and they will replace them no questions asked.
I am sure you admire my loyalty as I admire yours. It's well placed on both points of view.

And one thing more, I want you to know I ripped off your flared nose design for my stubby needles so they would push even more water. It's a good idea and I had to incorporate it in my latest creation based of course on a previously thought up idea.

Does anyone here remember Tim Coleman expounding the virtue of white or all black stubby needles with long feather tails in a book in the late 70's? And before him Danny Pichney and before him the Mad Russian? And before him.......?:jump1:

NIB:love:FLAP

Flap, FYI I work more than 80 hours a week. I am not burning out, nor am I half-way there. I am constantly producing needles. I am a custom builder. I am not a company like Budweiser, I'm more like a microbrewery. The people who appreciate Sam Adams don't really care how much Budweiser makes. The demand is high and I sell everything I make, for which I am grateful. My help is competent. Every year my production increases, as does the demand. At HAB'S quality is not PRO, it's STANDARD. Just because something is made in great quanities doesn't mean it's of high quality. If you feel you can do a quality plug in numbers , you should give it a try. I've been through this song and dance with you before. There's always somebody who has the answer for everything. No one is going to reinvent the wheel, but if you are going to try, you should change it a little. Just remember Flap HAB'S NEEDLES have caught more confirmed large than any other wooden needlefish on the market today. Can you keep up with that demand. I think not.. Have a nice day and good fishing. HAB'S

Coleman, Another NJ guy.:D.
I copied that nose from Manzi..

Flap, FYI I work more than 80 hours a week. I am not burning out, nor am I half-way there. I am constantly producing needles. I am a custom builder. I am not a company like Budweiser, I'm more like a microbrewery. The people who appreciate Sam Adams don't really care how much Budweiser makes. The demand is high and I sell everything I make, for which I am grateful. My help is competent. Every year my production increases, as does the demand. At HAB'S quality is not PRO, it's STANDARD. Just because something is made in great quanities doesn't mean it's of high quality. If you feel you can do a quality plug in numbers , you should give it a try. I've been through this song and dance with you before. There's always somebody who has the answer for everything. No one is going to reinvent the wheel, but if you are going to try, you should change it a little. Just remember Flap HAB'S NEEDLES have caught more confirmed large than any other wooden needlefish on the market today. Can you keep up with that demand. I think not.. Have a nice day and good fishing. HAB'S

John how many times have I been told by you yourself that you were tired and did not know how much longer you could keep up with it? Was that a bullsh*t line to me? I don't understand? Please explain because what you just said in your post is not what I heard from you John and you know it! I only repeat what I heard and I heard that from you, if it's not true then why say the same thing to me practically everytime we meet because the problem is I beleived you! Why would you say that to me then? I am confused and your making is me look stupid and that I don't appreciate it at all. I have always and still do promote your product in my columm and ask for nothing in return. What the hell is going on here?????? :realmad: I DEMAND AN ANSWER AND A THRUTHFULL ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:realmad:

I just don't understand why anyone in their right mind would buy a Gibbs plug to save a couple bucks over another custom that costs $20. With Gibbs you don't know what you have until you put it in the water. With Hab's, Tattoo, SS, Aftehours, R.M. Smith, Surf Asylum, Stetzko, Eel Punt (I could go on but you get the point) you know what you're getting and if in the small chance you have a problem you can call them and in no time you've got a new plug and a free one for your efforts. They also actually seem to care about the feedback you give them when you see them at the shows. I might give gibbs a chance if they tried to fix their quality first rather than just putting some eyes on their plugs and copying another builders design. I also don't buy that crap about about how Gibbs is under staffed etc. When I go to work and do s h i*t t y job my boss lets me know about it. I'm not giving them any slack because their struggling and I'm definately not going to give them any of my money. The original Gibbs designs are great but until I'm conviced that they've improved their quality I won't buy another one.

Sam Adams isn't a microbrew....

:rotf3:

Flap. yeah I've told you I'm tired, and I've told you I don't know how long I can keep it up. But I keep going and I keep producing more. I'm not going any where. I'm not the first person who works long hours to say they're tired. But I never said I don't enjoy doing it. Having plenty of work is a good thing. HAB'S

Sam Adams isn't a microbrew....

:rotf3:

Thank You :D

And I could go on and on about Sam Adams versus Bud.. but won't..
Not the best anology Mr. Habs, if you truly know both companys..
I'd take the Bud philosophy and business practise hands down.

All right I made a Mistake, Should of used a different brewery...................

Thank You :D

And I could go on and on about Sam Adams versus Bud.. but won't..
Not the best anology Mr. Habs, if you truly know both companys..
I'd take the Bud philosophy and business practise hands down.


I was a bud Man.I didn't care about the behind he sence bs.:D

[ flap]

" The Gibbs guys bought and run the company so that it would not go out of business, they will tell you that. "

this one I need to reply to....Jimmy had a buyer waiting in the corner to pick-up the co......me......6 time's he was reminded of that too. but the RI guy's somehow snuck in the back door without me knowing it....money was not a problem for the purchase....guess Jimmy just forgot to call...I'm very much sad to see what has happened to the co. now.

NIB....what I was saying about the wire is when the gibbs co. was still here on the cape, they were using 304 aniled[sp] wire 1/16" thick..I have 2 roll's of it and a lrg. bundle of pre-bent.....bm is the same as gibb's USED to be.

Got it.

capesams, If you are going to Plug Night will bring the plastic you were looking for before...................

Why can't Habs just put himself on the duplicator and make some more of himself?

http://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpghttp://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpghttp://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpghttp://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpg

capesams, If you are going to Plug Night will bring the plastic you were looking for before...................

I won't be,,but Mac will pick-up the items for me.....txs

Habs has a following so big that he can't keep up. He'll never be able to keep up given the size of the operation. There is a lot of money left on the table from vendors who can't get Habs, or not enough Habs.

So somebody was bound to try and capture that overflow of demand - any vacum in the marketplace gets filled eventually. But you can't just style the body a little diiferently and put on VMC's and say it's as good as Habs.

As so many people here have said - the new Gibbs owners did not need the money. They bought the company so it would not go under. It's a noble gesture, but tackle shops and fishing companies run by dilettantes who don't need the money are usually substandard enterprises. Sooner or later the luster of continuing a legacy will wear off and they'll go back the golf course. Personally, I'd rather the company was run by people who needed the money.

Why can't Habs just put himself on the duplicator and make some more of himself?

http://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpghttp://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpghttp://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpghttp://www.surfcasting-rhodeisland.com/haberwacky.jpg



I'll call up the Goverments secret cloning lab and get the ball rolling:call:
A new genetically superior Habs :err: , able to spin out needle fish by the thousands! MUAHAHAHAAHAAAA!

John this is stupid, all of it. I know you know where I am coming from in my defense of Gibbs. No Joe, the Gibbs Hab's-a-Like needles aren't as good they don't fish like a Habs but they do work.

As a customer I am frustrated by not being able to go to the local tackle shop and pick up one of John's when I need them. Last three weeks I would have killed for a purple black Habs needle and an Olive HAB'S Needle. I went to M&D's ask Mike, Powderhorn ask Andy, CMS ask Eric and Falmouth Bait and Tackle. All of these shops had Hab's plugs of some kind. NitenGales, some pencils and a few small needles in the colors I don't need ( which I would have bought if the were in the larger sizes and repainted).( I even prodded Don S. at Red Top why he doesn't stock them)

It totally frustrating. I have taken in the last 3 weeks more mid twenty pound to low 30 pound bass than I have had all year. They want needles and they want purple black or eel colored. Who makes the best needle, Habs. I got to get some, nope don't have any of those. I don't want pencils or nightengales or whatever I want needles and so do a lot of others.

I am sorry John. I have always respected you and I am and will still continue to be a fan of your stuff, which I will still gladly mention in anything I write that has anything to do with a needlefish being employed to take bass. Just need your best product and there ain't any.

(I still think that Hab's and Gibbs merger with John running the whole show and D&D as the backing would bring back Gibbs overall quality and give Hab's Plugs the means to satisfy demand and still put out the Mur-eels, Atom 40's and other classics. That would be the ultimate in a plug company.)

This is ended, peace out.

Nice one Steeve.
Is it 15 degrees out there today???

capesams, If you are going to Plug Night will bring the plastic you were looking for before...................

John, can you bring me a Cinto signed goo-goo please, I have my 35 bucks :D

I like Dennis too, he's a real good guy.

I like Bud too, my favorite beer:cheers: :buds:

Flap, I understand your frustration about not being able to get what you need and want. I have not had a bass over 20 pounds in more than 6 weeks, I can easily barter some of those needles you mentioned for just one phone call invite you remember right? :( weather permiting of course.:uhuh: :heybaby:

Wow, this thread took a long time to read

Ya,an now u made it longer.How was the seal fishin.

almost conked one off the noggin with a howdy when he popped up in front of me.
one swirled my plug too.
lots of mung and weed where we went

how's the schoolie fishing

Yesterday was a eating fest.I been sitting at the puter tying up smilin bills all day so i don't have to do it in that fall.We have fish.I'm gonna give it a go later.i'm gonna go for my Daily bikeride to the store to get smokes.:D
Then watch the Crap Sox get pounded by the evil empire again.

watching gibbs quality go steadily downhill over the last decade was a sad thing to see. IF i am to buy a current giibs lure on the wall, it is like buying a lure from one of the older custom wooden lures that used to be made - pick one up, look at it, inspect it for being true, centered, etc., and it's sad to say how many i would put one back while trying to find 2 or 3 to buy. when i do buy that new gibbs lure, the first thing i do is open the package, cut the wire and throw away the wire, hooks, and barrels. then, replace it with quality and hope the wood makes it a season. i see i am not alone in doing that and most have had worse luck w/ the lure not even making it thru a tide. again, sad.

now, i would still gladly fish a gibbs IF they changed several things. first, they need to go down one of 2 roads: 1.) keep the quality where it is now and reduce the price by at least 20-30%. or, 2.) leave the price where it is now and use better barrels, vmc hooks, seal all the plugs, dont cut corners when making darters, bottles, painting (crude at that these days), sanding, etc., (and please, thru wire that plug already!). as for the pricing comment, i have seen there prices steadily grow to try and keep up with other lure builders whose quality are always on top. gibbs has changed nothing, but increased their prices. sure, i can see a moderate price increase due to price incrase for oil, materials, etc., but not to the degree they are at now from where they were 10 years ago.

when gibbs decided to make the "pro series" needle, that was just a slap in the face. instead, why not make the "pro series" be one of their current plug designs, but w/ all the improvements already mentioned by me and others? gibbs took a 2oz habs needle and cloned it as best they could, which is still far from the quality of a real habs.

the current owners of gibbs are running off the history of the company to sell their plugs and not caring too much about their future. if they keep up business as they currently are, gibbs will only sell themselves out of the market.

capesams - i would have liked to have seen someone w/ your abilities take gibbs when the opportunity arose. i've seen your 40s and other lures. i'm sure you'd make their current danny lure something worth throwing again.

The comparison between Gibbs and Habs will go on and on.
Gibbs finish on the Pro Pencils does not compair to Habs. On every gibbs lure made there is Tareout. I 'm Not getting on them but it is a fact. You can go to my wall ang get any Gibbs plug and see that. Their belly holes are now not even filled in smooth (sunken).
It's getting to the point that we as a shop have to decide if the flaws and complaints are worth carring their product.The only thing that keeps Gibbs selling is their available.

......by the way;) .....at the Habratory , there are 2000 or so needles of sizes from 1 1/4 oz. - 3 oz. drilled and sealed , painting starts next week . :soon:

BTW, After reading this thread I put a call into a friend of mine who is good friends with Dan Smalley, the owner of Gibbs Lures. I let him know about this thread so Dan could respond to the criticism or at least address the problem. If he doesn't know something is wrong, and many times the owner doesn't know an inferior product is going out the door, he can't fix it.

BTW, After reading this thread I put a call into a friend of mine who is good friends with Dan Smalley, the owner of Gibbs Lures. I let him know about this thread so Dan could respond to the criticism or at least address the problem. If he doesn't know something is wrong, and many times the owner doesn't know an inferior product is going out the door, he can't fix it.


They know, they watch this site - specially when their stuff comes into play... Hmmm - now if I could find that Nastygram from 5 years ago (that's a joke by the way :lm: )

I'm not a Plugologist so I can offer no scientific or nuts and bolts breakdown of their products. The stuff seems better than that of a few years ago but is it up to par with some of the other local hitters? Not sure. Though I have before recieved plugs from smaller builders that for example have the wire not through the swivel. Very rare though and I have experienced this more (in the past) on the Gibbs than some of the small builders. Seeing that I have more of the small builders plugs than Gibbs - that says a little something. I have not purchased much of the way of Gibbs products in recent years.

I think it is a QC thing for the most part and these are (I imagine) smart guys so hopefully the turn can still be made for the better...

what do u do?...hope to sell to the 10,000 weekender's that[kinda] go fishing or worry about the 1,000 hardcore's...$$$ talk's so hardcore's walk.....what a waste of a good co. and wood.

what do u do?...hope to sell to the 10,000 weekender's that[kinda] go fishing or worry about the 1,000 hardcore's...$$$ talk's so hardcore's walk.....what a waste of a good co. and wood.

Exactly. I've been telling everyone that has an in with those guys that they should sell them without hooks, consideing that 80% of those crappy Mustads will break off on the first fish anyway. But the 1000 hardcores will change the hooks anyway, whereas the 10,000 weekenders won't buy a plug without hooks.