breef history... back in the late 70s and 80s untill the nauset beach brake, about 91 or 92 i fished monomoy island w/ friends,like flaptail etc. i can tell you of great nights w/ 3to 8+ fish nights in the fall . i never saw seals .. only once in a while early spring , when cod fishing ,but gone buy springs first bass...then alot more in the early 90s . first at the tip of monomoy layed out on the sand. first 50 then 150 and so on,now 6000+ mating seals, all kinds....... sooooo i do remember lots of tons of sand eels, huge schools of pogies, schools of tinker macks,squid and herring in the spring. all this in plesant bay and around nauset beach and monomoy il. fluke too....... NO more, i dont know what happened???i do know that seals eat lots of fish, probably more than we think. i know that they sometimes get caught in the gill nets for cod in 200+ feet of water. i know that there seal chit looks like round hard shell like droppings full of worms that the cod eat and pass it on....monomoy smell like seal chit on the sand bars and so on.......can i blame the seals for lack of bait n fish i dont know????but we need more info on the impact of seals and our decline in our fisheries total biomass....bait and fish.....dave

icicles and a crossbow = dead seals + no evidence ,, been laying awake thinking about it ..:alien:

Hmmm... me likee how taggage thinketh :uhuh:

Yup the man is always thinkin, always ahead of the curve. :hihi:

Specifications

AC-130H Spectre AC-130U Spooky Primary Function:Close air support, air interdiction and armed reconnaissance Contractor:Lockheed Aircraft Corp. Power Plant:Four Allison turboprop engines T56-A-15 Thrust:Each engine 4,910 horsepower Length:97 feet, 9 inches (29.8 meters) Height:38 feet, 6 inches (11.7 meters) Maximum Takeoff Weight:155,000 pounds (69,750 kilograms)Wingspan:132 feet, 7 inches (40.4 meters) Range:1,500 statute miles (1,300 nautical miles)
Unlimited with air refueling2,200 nautical miles
Unlimited with air refueling Ceiling:25,000 feet (7,576 meters)30,000 ft. Speed:300 mph (Mach 0.40) (at sea level) Armament: two M61 20mm Vulcan cannons (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m61.htm)
with 3,000 rounds
one L60 40mm Bofors cannon (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/l60.htm)
with 256 rounds
one M102 105mm howitzer (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m102.htm)
with 100 rounds One 25mm GAU-12 Gatling gun (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/gau-12.htm)
(1,800 rounds per minute)
one L60 40mm Bofors cannon (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/l60.htm)
(100 shots per minute)
one M102 105mm cannon (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m102.htm)
(6-10 rounds per minute) Countermeasures AN/AAQ-24 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-aaq-24.htm) Directional Infrared Countermeasures (DIRCM)
AN/AAR-44 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-aar-44.htm) infrared warning receiver
AN/AAR-47 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-aar-47.htm) missile warning system
AN/ALE-47 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-ale-47.htm) flare and chaff dispensing system
AN/ALQ-172 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-172.htm) Electronic Countermeasure System
AN/ALQ-196 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alq-196.htm) Jammer
AN/ALR-69 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alr-69.htm) radar warning receiver
AN/APR-46A (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-apr-46.htm) panoramic RF receiver
QRC-84-02 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-qrc-84.htm) infrared countermeasures system
Crew:14 -- five officers (pilot, co-pilot, navigator, fire control officer, electronic warfare officer); nine enlisted (flight engineer, loadmaster, low-light TV operator, infrared detection set operator, five aerial gunners) 13 total. Five officers (pilot, copilot, navigator, fire control officer, electronic warfare officer); 8 enlisted (flight engineer, All Light Level TV operator, infrared- detection set operator, four airborne gunners, loadmaster) Unit Cost:$46.4 million (1992 dollars)$72 million Date Deployed:19721995 Inventory: Active force, 8;
Reserve, 0;
ANG, 0 13 aircraft assigned to 16th Special Operation Wing's 4th Special Operations Squadron.

Ahh Stiffy, Monomoy in the ol days. Makes me want to friggin' cry. I don't think anyone here (or if there is there are only a very few) knew what we had there. 5 to 7 each night all 30 lbs or better, no mung no seals and no people. Just bait and bass. 'Member Memorial Day weekends there? First time there first cast 38lbs. We had the last of the good times there didn't we? I am glad I got to experience it before it all crashed and burned. One night in July 78', four boats, 8 guys and in the morning 37 bass all 30 pounds or better lined up in front of us before pushing off for Morris Island and Old Harbor Fish Market or me with 14 all between 38 and 42 pounds.

I tell you if we had had Sluggos back then and the knowledge and gear we have now there would be a statue in the Rotary in Chatham to us in Bronze standing on a pile of bronze bass.

Remember in 1979 getting Gibbs and Al Gag's first Needlefish from #^&#^&#^&#^& and taking them to Monomoy? The Gag's Chartreuse one was a killer. I think Danny Morin still has a couple. I broke off all mine.

The night my 30 pounder was cut in half by the shark while I was wading and two fish over 30 at the same time. One on a RedGill and the other on the plug. Don't know how I landed them both. Or you and Wayne in Ski's boat and the "incident". And waking up half covered with sand in your mouth and cold and stiff or sleeping beneath my overturned skiff while it spit snow in early November and still catching bass then.

That was the best SURFCASTING THERE EVER WAS.

And most importantly your 1100 pounds in one night.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:tooth:

And Davey, we are the only ones left on the Cape here from that group and Big Ed now down on Rhody who knew it like we knew it.

Sometimes on the beach at night when fishing alone I feel like the sole survivor of a shipwreck, the last one standing, the last one still searching for something we may never see again. I see #^&#^&#^&#^& and Wayne in the shadows, WATCHING. Cuckee and Cuckee II, bobby Rudzinski, Ski, Dennis ORielly, Danny, Iggy and the others, I can hear them laughing and joking as they run to the washline to haul another up the shingle. Gawd I miss those times.

It's my 51st birthday today, will I ever see anything like that again?:huh:

Wow Flap I think stiffy hit a nerve, ahhh the good old days

It's my 51st birthday today, will I ever see anything like that again?:huh:

Happy Birthday Flap you old bastadge .. hows that love and lost thing go .. I'm jealous ,,wish I was there,,Numbskull ever make it there ? ...Like Eric Burden said,,, " Its a tough world to get a break in ,,all the good things have been taken "..

Happy Birthday Steve, you young whippersnapper.:btu:

Today I feel every one of my 53 years :humpty:

The seals clearly hurt us.

...Like Eric Burden said,,, " Its a tough world to get a break in ,,all the good things have been taken "..

Not ALL the good things Eddie,
look at all the good friends we have on this site. :hihi: :btu:

Flap, Happy B Day, you young punk, you may very well see it again. :hihi:

May not be the way it happened then, but in a different way that will be

just as sweet. That's my wish for ya anyway. :)

Damn I do remember those nights. Running Nauset to Morris and all alone. If the beach got too rough or the blow was in the wrong direction, running to the backside and catching large and plenty. Getting to the market before anyone else to get the right price. Hoping to beat the rest before the price bottomed out. I do think I am getting OLD.:bc:

The seals are heavier than ever. Bring back the bounty!:af:

those, were the days my friend , i though they,ed never end, catchin bass and singing through the night. the fish were all ways there , we all ways caught our share (plus) those were the days (nights) O-yes those were the days....... thanks 4 the memories.....fuc* the seals. i had it (momonoy) first. seals = big sea rats .its time 4 a impact study

After this season, I could just kill them all. I usually don't feel that way about any creature, but these 600 pound vermin have got to go. Flap, Happy Birthday! I hope you do live to see the bass fishery return to it's past glory. But the Powers that be have taken a brilliant recovery and trashed it through mismanagment of seals and menhaden. I wanna friggin' cry with you. If I don't feel more enthusiastic by June, I'm considering hanging it up. My OJ is bitter this AM....

It's my 51st birthday today, will I ever see anything like that again?:huh:

Flap,

What about sept/oct 2001, 2002, 2003 on the back, just to mention a few?Where were you? Maybe not the isolated monomoy fishing with the tin boats like you mentioned, but just as many fish, if not more many nights. Same size fish, if not bigger many nights. Lots of guys that were there in the 70's say it was better in the 90's and early 2000's at times. Real fishermen, not lackeys, said this and mentioned outside of 77,78, and fall of 81, the fishing has been much better in the latter days, meaning now. The outer cape has unquestionably fallen apart since 2003, and I can sympathize with you there. When you mention all the 70's stuff you make it sound like nothing has happened out there since 1978, and it just isn't the case. No question you have some good memories like everyone else, but you constantly lament the fishing now compared to then, and its only been a couple years since it went sour. I think it will come back at some point, just can't say when, but it will. Hang in there, dude.

After this season, I could just kill them all. I usually don't feel that way about any creature, but these 600 pound vermin have got to go. Flap, Happy Birthday! I hope you do live to see the bass fishery return to it's past glory. But the Powers that be have taken a brilliant recovery and trashed it through mismanagment of seals and menhaden. I wanna friggin' cry with you. If I don't feel more enthusiastic by June, I'm considering hanging it up. My OJ is bitter this AM....

Fred, I feel the same way sometimes but then you have a couple nights and it makes you think........maybe just maybe. I love the outer beaches, I treasure driving along the sand edge as the foam reaches up to me. I think the night sky on an open Atlantic beach is one of the most beautiful sights a man can ever be priviledged to see. Looking up at a new moon sky and seeing the milky way above your head in a wide swath of white in an onyx sky with stars visible just above the horizon, it takes my breath away everytime.

It's a lonely, desolate, haunted and mystical place where it could be 1698, 1898 or 2098 and it still looks the same, unchanged and constant. Where waves crash minute by minute in the real world not the mechanized technology driven "world" we have created. Where, if tommorow man decided to end it all in a fury of splitting atoms and blinding light, it would still be there, with no acknowledgement that we were ever here, with wave after wave crashing upon the sand.

It's too deep in my blood to quit. I will keep searching as I am still hungry. It races through my veins and is constantly pulling me to it. I can not stop it. I think often of maybe I should just move to a new place but the Cape holds and has held my heart, it is where ai feel most alive and it is where I will rest my bones, lulled into that long sleep by the sound of those waves crashing on that lonely beach.

It will get better my friend, it will.

Flap,

What about sept/oct 2001, 2002, 2003 on the back, just to mention a few?Where were you? Maybe not the isolated monomoy fishing with the tin boats like you mentioned, but just as many fish, if not more many nights. Same size fish, if not bigger many nights. Lots of guys that were there in the 70's say it was better in the 90's and early 2000's at times. Real fishermen, not lackeys, said this and mentioned outside of 77,78, and fall of 81, the fishing has been much better in the latter days, meaning now. The outer cape has unquestionably fallen apart since 2003, and I can sympathize with you there. When you mention all the 70's stuff you make it sound like nothing has happened out there since 1978, and it just isn't the case. No question you have some good memories like everyone else, but you constantly lament the fishing now compared to then, and its only been a couple years since it went sour. I think it will come back at some point, just can't say when, but it will. Hang in there, dude.

I went back to the beach full time so to say in 2001. For 11 years before then I fished strictly ( let's just say I was brainwashed into a cult) with a flyrod. Momonoy. Barnstable and the Elizabeth Islands were my haunts ( I averaged 33 plus days a year stalking the flats of Monomoy alone) After all that time the biggest fish I landed was 32 pounds on the flats or anywhere with the flyrod. Stifftip would call me and say he was catching on eel or plugging on the outer beach and I would cower in horror at the thought of such a barbarian way to take fish. I recovered my senses. In the fall of 2000 I went to the beach (Balstons to be exact) with a nine foot spinning rod with dusted off Penn 650ss and a plastic box with a dozen old rebels and such in it. I walked north to a point and rounded it to see before me a bowl in between two bar edges. I felt clumsy as I had not done that in a long time. With the box of plugs shoved down between my waders and my chest I snapped on a blue 7 inch Rebel. I caught fish for 3 hours, several in the 30 pound class and many in the 20 pound range. I didn't pick up a flyrod for almost three years after that night.

I recall the 70's and early 80's because they were the times I had the most fun, it was all new and exciting. One of the best periods of my life. The friends I had who are now gone for the most part. Places like Monomoy were wide open, no one ever borthered you if you landed there and not many people did land there to fish.

Yeah, maybe the 90' and early in this new century had good fishing, maybe as good as then, but the restrictions were being enforced on beach travel, the seals were beginning to be spoken of more and more and the big hits were beginning to be subtly noticed as being fewer and fewer. The best night I had in the last 30 years was in September 2003. It started at 7:30 at night at Hatches with a 31 pounder first cast on a BASSMASTER needlefish and ended , with fish still being caught, in exhaustion at 8:30 the next morning. Stifftip will tell you of LaFleur and I calling him on his cell phone and leaving messages with only the sound of our drags screaming as he fished a fishless Squibnocket Beach on the Vineyard. He had been with me every night that week as the fishing built and built but he had made a promise to go to MV to a friend for a night and he knew what was going to happen. The seals are the number one problem, no doubt in my mind. There will be no prolonged old days again until that problem is solved.

I am lucky to have had the many great nites on the back from 99-03.........to me it felt like magic...just as you Flap and others have described the good old days.....nothing much else like it. I met a older surf caster one spring morning at the Pilgrim Springs Motel. in 03..he and his buddy were sitting outside chewing the fat and started talking to me....he contently listenened to me tell my enthusiastic fish tales of the past 4 - 5 years since I had discovered the back beaches. He told me of days driving the beaches from Nauset to P-town and of big fish nites...it was a great conversation. I said to him that I will never be able to have what you did back then, but to me these are going to be my good old days. He looked at his friend and said here is a smart man.......little did I know then that possibly could have been the end of an other era. I wish I knew then who the older gentlman was...even though he had introduced himself I had never heard the name before......I have since......it was Tony C.........

I went to the A&P now GU (GOO) in P-town thisAM to buy eggs for breakfast with my fishing family. An older gent, JoeC, approached me and asked how the fishing was going. My sour self described my luck. As the conversation proceeded, he started telling me a story about a super-plug from back in the day. He described watching another fisherman snap in off and then finding it later himself. Thinking why not and tied it on. On cast, one fifty later he was sold. found out a local named ConradM built it. By now I was on to him. And I said that DannyP started building them didn't he. Yes he said. Look over here he said. He pulled that plug out of the back of his Jeep. Herring Danny Pichney Conrad. THE icon plug of the Second Rip. He also showed me some eels he had made from pork rind ....in 1975. Keeps them in brine and are dyed light blue and hand sewn from his own pattern. Yep caught 50s on them too. Has 5 50s in his career and is 85 years young. Changed my outlook on this avocation 180 degrees. Flap, you set it to music. I'm near as bitter now as when I woke. Thanks

I fished Friday, Sat, Sunday and this morning. So many seals, so few fish. These seals must have weighed close to 1000#'s, they were huge. The only fish I saw, was one hanging out of a seals mouth.

I should have stayed home and fished in a seal free zone.

I did have a Bomba sighting though.

I saw both you guys! (bbj & P23) I think Fred is a stalker though. I literally saw him all over the place this weekend. He was everywhere. I saw him on shore, in boats, in cars. Lots of seals, but more Freds than fish for me this weekend.

Fished the Traps Friday night from low to about 2 hours up. Seals everywhere. Hooked into a bluefish with a bucktail jig (all I could throw in the wind) only to have a seal grab it about 20 yards from me. He came to the surface with my fish in his mouth and took off. Luckily I broke off before he spooled me... I was one unhappy camper.

between the seals, mung and howling NE wind Friday night was a bust...

I went back to the beach full time so to say in 2001. For 11 years before then I fished strictly ( let's just say I was brainwashed into a cult) with a flyrod.
Stan Kuzia told me your the best he's seen with a fly rod .

I saw both you guys! (bbj & P23) I think Fred is a stalker though. I literally saw him all over the place this weekend. He was everywhere. I saw him on shore, in boats, in cars. Lots of seals, but more Freds than fish for me this weekend.



Ixnay on the oatbay!!!!!:rotf2: I saw you more often than you saw me:laugha: You almost ran over me at Pamet, missed me by 50 feet!!:sled:
Good seeing you and PapaBomba again.

Stan Kuzia told me your the best he's seen with a fly rod .

Stan is a great guy. I wish to live as long and fish with as many people as he has. To know what he has forgotten would aide my struggle by years. Last week before me and Stiffy went to the OTW Striper Fest I met up with Stan to give him a plug I made for him. It was a six inch Stubby Waker in blue over silver with silver and blue glitter swirled on top. He said he really liked it and as I about to tell him how to fish it he started to tell me how to and he was exactly right. It made my day when he said how he thought the plug was really nice and would surely catch then he told me some ways they used to catch fish when things were slow and a cool story about fishing with Floyd Roman and a plug Floyd made for himself for use with an eelskin. It swam right on the bottom dragging it's nose in the sand. I got to find one of those plugs.

As to the flyfishing ability, well let's just say I really ( and still do) enjoyed it. I actually caught a 26 inch Codfish one December morning at Old Harbor in Sandwich while schoolie fishing there at the mouth. He was really good eating!

The Codfish ate a chartreuse over white Clouser (#2) on my 8 weight GLoomis with a AirFlo monocore and 10 pound flouro tippet (8 feet overall blood knotted starting at 30lb butt every 2 feet, it turned over better than anything I ever used)

That's the thing. The good old days were only a couple of years ago. I was lucky enough to have had fishing as good or better then anything I ever heard or read about. Last week I think I got my last #35-#37 fish from the outer beaches that I think I will ever get. I knew it would not last as it was but never did I think it would get as bad as it has and unfortunately there is no way to fix it.

err ,john the issue is seals , and lack of info and control...also good 4 u if u got some productive nights in over the last few yrs . but when i talk about the " good old days " i remember the dollars and total pounds each night power fishing all night 2-3-4 night a week for 4to 6 wks each fall ..... i,v fished through that run of fish in the late 90s n 2000s...but that run of fish is 1/10 what is was like compared to the old days i,m sorry to say .... but keep your memories,and hope for the best

That is true. anyone who knows me knows I never fish all night and never fish 2,3,4,5,6,or 7 nights a week.

Anyone who knows me knows what I think about seals.

I do think there is more going on then just the seals though they are much of the problem. I think a lot more fish are staying south of us the past couple of years with the return of the bunker.

I also think the way the com season has worked out the combination com fishing and rec fishing takes #2,000,000 in a 4-6 week period out of Mass waters. That is a lot of fish.

Just my 2 cents.

i agree, john ... its more than the seals alone. and comm. sales comes n goes in 6wks. i think more people fish bass now.and take more home .. according to a study comm. bass fisherman kill 1, 380,000 this yr. rec. fisherman kill 9,000,000 ++lbs in ma. whos doing more damage to the the bass stock ....its a no brainer.....

Water quality, lack of substantial bait not just sand eels, seals and access closures for the mobile surfcaster. Big biat is a huge problem but while other areas, notably have had and do have a resurgence of big adult Menhaden could it not be the same issue keeping them from our sandy shores as what is keeping the bass away? Namely, seals. What would a herd of seals do to an acre of pogies about to enter Pleasant Bay? And does the deteriorating water quality in the bay have anything to do with keeping them out and Stage Harbor as well?

By mid July the gelatinous junk floating on the waters of PB and the water clarity overwhelm your senses. Lack of oxygen maybe? And that June rain and the effect it had on our embayments around the Cape?

Barnstable had more bait than I have seen in years this past spring and early summer but KarlF and I saw what might be the next battlefront on the seal issue. A large seal on the east bar in June in amongst the sand eels schools. Not a good sign.

Wasn't ready to concede that its the seals who are responsible for the decline. After the past two seasons, I can't find any other excuses other than the seals. First hand info from good sources indicates that there is no other isolate. There are fish offshore, but they don't hit the beach with any consistency. Glad I didn't waste time or money on the back side this season or last. Might need to change my name to "rock head" now, though.:huh:

i think it is a combination of many things.the seals have wiped out the ground fish,so why would big bass venture close to the beach. you have a good amount of large bait in the NY,NJ area so the majority of large are not coming north.i think the inshore water quality has changed. whether it has to do with the amount of chorine run off or fertilzer something is changing the water

Water Quality never dawned on me. Now that it has, I'm thinking outfall pipe in one way or the other. 1: dumping nutrients into the middle of Cape Cod Bay and attracting bait there. 2: dumping toxins and reducing bait. I'm leaning toward the nutrient side of the scale because I've not seen a lot of dead bait on shore. Saw Right Whales grubbing for large sandeels this past Easter Sunday within an honest stone's throw of the beach, now they're gone after a warm Summer. Sandeels ARE a mile or so off the beach tho, seen'em. The mung was a little longer and stringier than usual and came in force real fast. Who knows? I do know that I was mugged by seals twice this year and that they've learned to look for an easy meal when they see a rod and reel. Is a 1209 capable of throwing a .30 slug?:liquify:

i think it is a combination of many things.the seals have wiped out the ground fish,so why would big bass venture close to the beach. you have a good amount of large bait in the NY,NJ area so the majority of large are not coming north.i think the inshore water quality has changed. whether it has to do with the amount of chorine run off or fertilzer something is changing the water

Seals definately have an impact... but seals don't explain the widespread lack of groundfish where the seals don't even exist. I hear people tying the lack of fluke and winters to seals? We don't even friggin have a seal population here in long island sound and we still don't have flatfish to speak of. If humans weren't involved, the population of seals could be 10 times greater and there would be a thriving balanced ecosystem. The seals play a part in the current situation on the cape, but we caused it.

Seals definately have an impact... but seals don't explain the widespread lack of groundfish where the seals don't even exist. I hear people tying the lack of fluke and winters to seals? We don't even friggin have a seal population here in long island sound and we still don't have flatfish to speak of. If humans weren't involved, the population of seals could be 10 times greater and there would be a thriving balanced ecosystem. The seals play a part in the current situation on the cape, but we caused it.

For years we would drift sandeels with egg sinkers over the bars at Bearses, Handkerchief and the other rips east and south of Monomoy. If you didn't catch a bass on the drift most often you would catch a fluke or another small flounder species known locally as Windowpane. Often a seal would come right up in the face of the rip with a flounder in his maw and many many many times they would rip the flounder or fluke you caught right off your hook as it came to or just under the surface.

Windowpane were so abundant while surfcasting Nauset and Monomoy as to be almost a nuiscence some nights. I don't know about Nauset as I don't fish there often enough anymore but in conversation with friends who frequent the place (KarlF any input here?) there just ain't anymore. Also there used to be a spring run of small Pollock along Monomoy and Nauset and you don't see them anymore.

But as I have written many times in my columm in OTW, a half mile off of Nauset with 300 feet of wire we could catch all the bass we wanted after tuna forays and the bait was there but no Mr. Piniped.

Flounder, Fluke, Sand Dabs.. :drool:..
Pleasant Bay. Nauset Harbor, Mill Pond.. all abundant, years ago with winter fluke.. fluke in the summer, could get fluke off the beach almost all summer too, hence that nuiscance thing Flap had ;) but they was good eating.. Sand Dabs. and sand eels, in both Pleasant Bay, and out front off of Nauset..
the seals started showing.. some wintered over in both the Harbor, and Pleasant Bay.. yes man was invovled there too.. them pump rigs they brought in for clamming right around the same time.. wiped out a lot of them.. but the seals were more than happy to oblige in eating whatever came out of the hydraulics..
As the numbers of seals increased the flounder, fluke, sand dabs, and sand eels disappeared from the front beach, and the estuarys..
the sand eels were the last to go.. I remember even in the late 90's, 98-99.. you could go work the bars near the Chatham inlet at low tide and fill a bucket in short orde.. no more. Still got my CS rake a hangin in the shed.. (needs 2 tines relaced) in hope that I can someday use it again.
So..all the bait is just about wiped out, and smaller fish.. you would think the seals would move on.. no.. they just started targeting schoolies and snapper blue.. they have moved on to the larger ones now..

But, as far as the water.. I agree.. the crap from road runoff, and all the trophy mansions with the golf course type lawns, and huge septic systems right on the shore edge.. and the golf courses along the bay as well.. have to have some impact.. whatever happened to all the eel grass?.. and now chunks of the marsh itself, is dying...

That is true. anyone who knows me knows I never fish all night and never fish 2,3,4,5,6,or 7 nights a week.

Anyone who knows me knows what I think about seals.

.

:wave: John..
anyone who knows you, is surprised you were home at the time of night you posted, and not headed out..
John sometimes forgets to go home.. :D

I've invested thousands of dollars on a brand new camper in 2003 and a campsite in Wellfleet year round in order to fish weekends and long weekends and have a little place of our own on Cape Cod. I am not happy at all with the seal population and the current fishless beaches. I am seriously considering selling it but the wife and kids don't want to, maybe we should move it to Rhode Island or someplace on a pond or lake somewhere. If it were not for the canal and using my little boat in B. Harbor, I'd have zero decent bass this year. I fished the beaches enough this year that I would think I would have gotten many keeper size bass, but the largest I hooked got taken by a seal:rocketem: I am sick of those searats. Maybe I'll just give up fishing:skulz:

Slip...perhaps it's time to put an addition onto your boat..say 10'.that'll get you the mile off the beach that's need these days.

Well if i was walkin down the road an i saw a Giant Bear that wanted to eat me i would turn around.
U guys need to push fisheries managment to do a study on the obvious impact the seals have on the striped bass an forage fish stocks.
I know in California they would cry foul but this is the northeast where the gortons fisherman is from.It's a different world where fish an fishing can directly impact the thinning economy in New England.Seals eat fish,all kinds of fish.Where have the herring gone in only a few yrs.
There has to be a way to hurd em up an ship em back to where they came from.Man has controlled nature before.it dosen't seem right to play god but in todays world things are different.The scales have been upset.The seal is king an has no predatory fears.Great White's don't play where they roam anymore..

.Where have the herring gone in only a few yrs.
..

To the pair trawlers! :nailem:

[QUOTE=Flaptail] I love the outer beaches, I treasure driving along the sand edge as the foam reaches up to me. I think the night sky on an open Atlantic beach is one of the most beautiful sights a man can ever be priviledged to see. Looking up at a new moon sky and seeing the milky way above your head in a wide swath of white in an onyx sky with stars visible just above the horizon, it takes my breath away everytime.

It's a lonely, desolate, haunted and mystical place where it could be 1698, 1898 or 2098 and it still looks the same, unchanged and constant. QUOTE]

:love: Flap if I werent very happily married I might have to start stalking you!!! ;) You certainly know how to capture (in words) what it feels like to be there....



Anyway fresh off a fishing trip from those parts and having the worst trip (fishing wise) of the year I am a bit depressed to say the least. and its funny that you guys mentioned the flatfish because I was just thinking the other day how when I was kid we would catch them from shore all the time and I cant remember the last time that I did! Sad.....

I think a way to approach this from another angle would be to publicize that the Cape beaches are becoming unsafe from seal fecal contamination. How about an article Flap?

:gorez: chum slick to attract sharks to the colony :hidin: did I just say that:devil2: lets get chumming:jump:

Flounder, Fluke, Sand Dabs.. :drool:..
Pleasant Bay. Nauset Harbor, Mill Pond.. all abundant, years ago with winter fluke.. fluke in the summer, could get fluke off the beach almost all summer too, hence that nuiscance thing Flap had ;) but they was good eating.. Sand Dabs. and sand eels, in both Pleasant Bay, and out front off of Nauset..
the seals started showing.. some wintered over in both the Harbor, and Pleasant Bay.. yes man was invovled there too.. them pump rigs they brought in for clamming right around the same time.. wiped out a lot of them.. but the seals were more than happy to oblige in eating whatever came out of the hydraulics..
As the numbers of seals increased the flounder, fluke, sand dabs, and sand eels disappeared from the front beach, and the estuarys..
the sand eels were the last to go.. I remember even in the late 90's, 98-99.. you could go work the bars near the Chatham inlet at low tide and fill a bucket in short orde.. no more. Still got my CS rake a hangin in the shed.. (needs 2 tines relaced) in hope that I can someday use it again.
So..all the bait is just about wiped out, and smaller fish.. you would think the seals would move on.. no.. they just started targeting schoolies and snapper blue.. they have moved on to the larger ones now..

But, as far as the water.. I agree.. the crap from road runoff, and all the trophy mansions with the golf course type lawns, and huge septic systems right on the shore edge.. and the golf courses along the bay as well.. have to have some impact.. whatever happened to all the eel grass?.. and now chunks of the marsh itself, is dying...

Or.... somethings afoot and we don`t know what it is Mrs. Jones....


I only started salt fishing in late 97 but an area I like has no seals to speak of and the sand dabs, sand lances, and fluke are not there as they were in 97, 98, 99, and 2000...... methinks increased populations, more Mr. Chemical lawn treatments, sewerage leachings, natural cycles, acid rain (a name for many poisons), climate changes, etc. etc. has its dramatic effects as well..... though I agree that seals are the fisheries bane..... For Whom The Bell Tolls.... is here in many forms and sadly so...

[QUOTE=Flaptail] I love the outer beaches, I treasure driving along the sand edge as the foam reaches up to me. I think the night sky on an open Atlantic beach is one of the most beautiful sights a man can ever be priviledged to see. Looking up at a new moon sky and seeing the milky way above your head in a wide swath of white in an onyx sky with stars visible just above the horizon, it takes my breath away everytime.

It's a lonely, desolate, haunted and mystical place where it could be 1698, 1898 or 2098 and it still looks the same, unchanged and constant. QUOTE]

:love: Flap if I werent very happily married I might have to start stalking you!!! ;) You certainly know how to capture (in words) what it feels like to be there....



Anyway fresh off a fishing trip from those parts and having the worst trip (fishing wise) of the year I am a bit depressed to say the least. and its funny that you guys mentioned the flatfish because I was just thinking the other day how when I was kid we would catch them from shore all the time and I cant remember the last time that I did! Sad.....


Jenn, picture this.... It's near midnight, the beach is deserted except for one vehicle, the windows and sun roof are open and the sounds of The Flamingo's "I only have eyes for you" and that haunting melody echos off of the towering clay cliffs with the sound of a gentle surf and the stars go on forever..........Hmmmm... sound interesting?

:smokin: :wave:

[quote=Jenn]


Jenn, picture this.... It's near midnight, the beach is deserted except for one vehicle, the windows and sun roof are open and the sounds of The Flamingo's "I only have eyes for you" and that haunting melody echos off of the towering clay cliffs with the sound of a gentle surf and the stars go on forever..........Hmmmm... sound interesting?

:smokin: :wave:

What about the seals :call:

flap....you silver tonge devil.....smooos me

if you just do a little math, 6000 seals eating 50lbs of fish a day thats 30,000lbs of fish. if they started with tasty treats like juvinile fluke, flounder and sundabs that weigh six ozs or less thats a lot of fish each day.one of the last fish that i took home to eat had worms in the belly meat just like cod have,if i am not mistaken this is from seal crap.

John, You are right about the parasites, they are showing up in the bass that have been taken from the beaches.. them seal poop capsules, are more than likely, the culprit, as is the case with the codfish.
When the flat fish #'s first started thinning, years ago, even in the late eighties, we (locals) knew there was a connection to the seals.. several started wintering over way up in Pleasant bay, and were observed nosing the flats out of the mud in the ponds up that way.
As the easier pickings dwindled, and the seals numbers increased, they started targeting the bigger fish.

I also like it when a seal beaches itself and a ranger has to stand there and baby sit so people wont try to touch it......:uhoh:



Oh and Flaptail you can leave the Flamingos at home...mother natures music is far better (waves).

Great White , :claps: Chowing seals on the inside, So. Beach, Chatham today.. confirmed by my co-workers brother who works at Outermost Marine.. heard from several others.. harbor master is in the area, ... wonder if it will make the paper:huh: :hs: ;)....
But.. Great News!

got one!!!
just kidding..

there were 5 washups today on bout 7 miles of north shore beach. usually a bunch of dead ones this time of year.

A couple of big seals on PI today. DEAD. God bless the lobstermen:faga: Both had a bullet hole in the head.:cheers:

Check the surf at PI at 3 PM today. Had to hustle off as the surf reached the foot of the dunes. Driven hard by last nites storm. Those waves are a good 10 or 12 ft. high.

fished the Race today with BigFish.......seals everywhere:yak4:
it's just not worth it.........:skulz:

I knew I would find you in this thread Matt! Man they were everywhere today.....they suck!:wall:

For years we would drift sandeels with egg sinkers over the bars at Bearses, Handkerchief and the other rips east and south of Monomoy. If you didn't catch a bass on the drift most often you would catch a fluke or another small flounder species known locally as Windowpane. Often a seal would come right up in the face of the rip with a flounder in his maw and many many many times they would rip the flounder or fluke you caught right off your hook as it came to or just under the surface.

Windowpane were so abundant while surfcasting Nauset and Monomoy as to be almost a nuiscence some nights. I don't know about Nauset as I don't fish there often enough anymore but in conversation with friends who frequent the place (KarlF any input here?) there just ain't anymore. Also there used to be a spring run of small Pollock along Monomoy and Nauset and you don't see them anymore.

But as I have written many times in my columm in OTW, a half mile off of Nauset with 300 feet of wire we could catch all the bass we wanted after tuna forays and the bait was there but no Mr. Piniped.

Look, I agree that the seals have an impact, especially locally the way you desecribe. But the flounder situation in particular is the same up and down the coast. Western LIS, outer banks, etc all saw the same trends where you could catch coolers full of flatfish and now they don't exist. All the environmental factors you stated also play a part. I am sure the fishing is going to be affected where the seals are, but I do not think the presence of seals can be identified as the main factor in the lack of flounder.

Makes me really sad that I was born in 80. Atleast I have lived through techno music and hydroponic inventions. But seriously I love fishing so much is it ever going to be anywhere close to the way it was in the 70s? Is it possible?

http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/060929_ap_mass_seals.html

Makes me really sad that I was born in 80. Atleast I have lived through techno music and hydroponic inventions. But seriously I love fishing so much is it ever going to be anywhere close to the way it was in the 70s? Is it possible?

Alot of things may change but with all the 14 to 24 inch fish around in 10 yrs. it is going to be unflippinbelievable, the back beaches my still suck but everywhere else is going to be smoking

but I do not think the presence of seals can be identified as the main factor in the lack of flounder.




I bet they are the reason in Pleasant Bay, I have zero doubt about it.

I bet they are the reason in Pleasant Bay, I have zero doubt about it.
Mill Pond too.. I sat in a friends tin boat there several winters back, freezin, trying for winter flounder (which we used to get a bucketfull in short order on a Sunday afternoon).. and watched the sea rats chewing on them instead...

I don't even waste my time going to Pleasant Bay in my tin boat anymore. According to my records in 97 I took 70 36" plus fish in my tin boat in a 2 month span from Minister's point to Strong Island. You would be hard pressed to get 7 now adays. Too long of a drive to get skunked now. Real shame as it was perfect small boat fishing and free parking at the numerous dirt ramps. P

do expired seals sink?:nailem:

Lady, you kinda scare me .......and I like it. semper fi