For the entire season, the spots I fish on a regular basis have been devoid of any fish of size.....been lots of them just no keepers except for the occasional "gift"! These spots have always paid off in years past and this year.....they have not! My theory of why this is is simple....."SEALS"!!! I fished 4 spots today.....and at each spot there were seals! I have seen them almost every time out at every one of my usual haunts this season.....and not just the occasional harbor seal as in years past! I am seeing the big black monsters that have ruined the Cape fishing!! These giant slime covered rats are infesting the entire coast of Mass from Cape Cod all the way to Boston harbor! Not sure if they are as common on the North Shore but they are alot more common on a daily basis here on the South Shore than in years past! I fear this is just the beginning.......it will get alot worse if my theory is correct and I pray I am wrong! I have probably caught over 350 fish in the past 2 weeks and not one keeper!!!!! Not one!! I find that unusual.....very unusual!!:bc:

My theory for why our area didnt have fish is this. 1st off we never have a residnet population of large schools of large fish. This isnt to say that we dont get the occasional 30lb fish in our waters, but 90% of the time those fish are one of maybe a handful that size in any given school of fish or just simply a single fish scrounging for food. When I was fishing the south side of the cape and the islands this summer we would run into schools of fish all above the 20lb class, this just simply doesnt happen in our area. 2nd, this summer there were an insane amount of sand eels out at stellwagon, I heard about 20 experience tuna captains speaking of schools of sandeels they havent seen since they started fishing. Along with these huge schools of sandeels there were HUGE schools of very large bass. I dont even remember the amount of weekend tuna warrior's that hooked into large bass while dragging squid bars at 5knts. These are first hand experiences not rumors or what not. If these fish were cought as bycatch while tuna fishing makes ya think what someone coulda done out there if they were targeting bass(i know a few people that were...). This is just my opinion on the matter, who really knows

sadly i have to agree worse before better , nothing is more maddening than setting up and fishing and then that nose with wiskers shows up :wall: you are doing better than me on the gifts no keepers in 6 weeks for me but i tend to stop fishing after 12-15 dinks i move on or call it . the only bright spot i see is i have never seen so many 12"-20" fish and if the seals don't eat them all in 5-8years we should have a nice class of fish .

I dont think seals have a big effect if any on the fishing on the south shore. The cape is a whole different ball game.

I dont think seals have a big effect if any on the fishing on the south shore. The cape is a whole different ball game.

me neither....seals don't just target keepers....plenty of dinks around...and peanuts....I'll bet big bass too at night...probally just full:hee:

Plenty of dinks around the Cape too! Fishing down there just 2 years ago was the balls....now....just 2 years later....it is horrible and last year was also! You wait 2-3 more years and you might be saying what I think is wrong! I think the dinks up here are just more prevalent because they have the rocks to hide in from the seals.....otherwise they would be harder to come by just like down the Backside! Just my thoughts....time will tell...hopefully time will tell me I am wrong!

Blue Oyster has a point....that "IF" the seals don't eat them all we will have a good class of fish in a few years.....what if they do???:nailem:

Slingah....have you caught any big bass at night around here I don't know about??

Simple answer, no big bait no big fish

We have had big bait in the Harbor Bob? Until last season big bunker was hard to find in these parts.....always plenty of peanuts! I saw no shortage of bait this season or last.

There were tons of large carcasses washed up on the Backbeaches this year. One I even scored a Hopkins in. THAT tells the tale. Seals are killing and eating them, Even stealing fish on the line. Lost a nice 6-7 hundred pounder this year. Seal that is, and my Canal special.

Well my thoughts are if there is big bunker in New Jersey and Rhode Island they have no need to travel any farther they stay with the food sorce at hand, Seals are a huge problem they are even starting up here, today we would find a school catch 2 or 3 and a seal would show up out of no where and the fish bolt.

Fred,
I found a canal special today, think it floated up here?

Bet they don't have seals down there...huh Bob? I do agree with you there though Bob. There have been loads of bunker down there as I have been hearing all season....why would the fish leave that?

Slingah....have you caught any big bass at night around here I don't know about??

nope..not this year...doesnt mean that they are not around though..and I'm not trying as hard as usual...

I have fished harder this fall than any other.....got "0" to show for my effort!:(

I agree Larry. Even on the south shore, taking exception to Riverrat, I can say when I went fishing all the usual suspects would pop up about three hundred feet out from where I'm wading and the fishing sucked.

Yup! Cutty was off from last year...more seals over there too and the Vineyard has been way off the last 2 years.....see any seals there Frank?:rocketem:

Only a couple the first few days. It might explain why the fishing sucked over there this year also.

[QUOTE=riverrat2;429226]My theory for why our area didnt have fish is this. 1st off we never have a residnet population of large schools of large fish. QUOTE]
I don't agree with that statement at all. I've fished these waters south of Boston for quite a few years and I can say with absolute certainty that we've had many years with large shools of fish. The numbers of large fish in these same waters have been way off the last couple years. In years past, in "Larry's spot":kewl: we could catch schoolies all day long. I could also take any newbie there and pretty much guarranty them a keeper. I know this doesn't assert the assumption of schools of large fish, but believe me, they've been around. I'm really not sure as to why the numbers are off the last few years. I just don't know what the answer is.:huh:

Seems like alot of daytime fishing is going on here. I would agree that for the most part alot of the fish I caught this fall during the day were smaller but I didn't really think anything of it because I don't have much faith in getting "large" from shore during the day. When it happens I consider myself lucky. The fish I've caught at night have been fine in terms of size and that's when I'll continue to put my time in.

Also, we do get seals on the north shore occasionally but not enough to change the fishing.

I have put in many hours this fall at night L-48......many, many hours. As has Slingah....it just ain't happenin'!

In the years I have been fishing it is always different every year, some yoears nothing others some big fish and some little, other years all little, and still other years all large. you can never say what they are going to do from years past. just when you think you have them all figured out they prove you wrong

There are a lot of seals in the Merrimac and they are on the beaches too, not in huge numbers, but two, three or four are enough to ruin a a day or night of fishing in a particular spot.

I am also seeing them in places that I never did before, or at least in the past 10-12 years and at least not this early in the season as they would show up when the water was cold -- around Fisher's Island, I never saw any seals, occassionally across the way on the North Fork of Long Island, some of the islands there would occassionaly have seals, but they are pretty much every where these days.

And as a result, it is and will continue to impact the fishing .. IMHO

is to organize a fisherman march to protest the seal population.
to get the culling process started asap.

or buy boats to go to the open ocean where there's less seals.

what else can ya do...?

Hit them with bait...Just because you are not catching large sure don't mean they are not there. Most large will fall to bait over wood

Hey Larry, got your messages. I was at a conference in Randolph today all day and went home then out the door to the beach and just missed your evening call as I had just left the truck to trudge down to my spot.

Anyway I will call you tomorrow.

As to your theory, tonight I actually caught too many fish, I KNOW THAT SOUNDS WIERD! but its true and nie of them were legal and I dropped a few more that felt that they were in that range as well. Also I broke off a real good one on a Gags white Pocket Rocket on 12lb braid (I was gunning for twinkies tonight and never imagined I would run into what I did. I hit the beach at 5:45pm and just got home. I left two guys there who were getting them as well. All on needlefish. I think we will have to go there tomorrow night and chat about your Pencils. I will call you. Cannot type anymore my arms are sore. True story folks.

Bet they don't have seals down there...huh Bob? I do agree with you there though Bob. There have been loads of bunker down there as I have been hearing all season....why would the fish leave that?

We have them here too:splat:

while on the subject of "bigfish".. what about big bait .. Didn't land any fish on large plugs..It was .. spring 6" needle ,,, summer ,fall 8" needle,,, on top all year 5" spook ... kept trying nights with large up to 3.5 ounce plugs no takers . "dude":hihi: I fish with does well on small plastic (bombers) and rubber ,,(sluggo's).. and needles ,, all small profile stuff .. Years back when I heathen fished, early spring I use to go to the pier and jigg macks .. Big macks ... getting 50 for the freezer in a day was not a great feat . pier was blood soaked mothers day to fathers day . That was the start of every year. I still check the pier every year just to see whats around .. Wish I kept records ... can't recall years but its been a bunch since the macks showed like that in the spring if at all . On the other hand herring run looks good .. just talking local , our area . Seems when the size limit was 36" . We caught a bunch of 20lb. class fish all year long . We're always looking for the cycle to repeat itself ,, I'm not sure it ever does.. Too many varibles year to year .. always felt the macks set up the early fishing season . Reality is the picture is too big for us mear humans to nail it down . seals don't help ,,, thats for sure ,...

I fish the ss and have noticed the size of fish from shore is down, while the numbers are up. My friends with boats had no problem catching 25-35lb fish with live macs/pogies. They would fish clarks island/browns bank area. I have had to go to my fresh water 7' rod to have a little fun. reelling in a 18"fish with a 9foot surf rod can get boring. Larry agree with you about the seals. I was down at Duxbury harbor Monday and saw a ton. The funny thing is they are always outside, but these were on the inside beach channel, have not seen that in years. hopefully it is just a natural pattern, and when the millions of peanut bunker grow up, the big fish will return.

The other thought I had was that with so many small fish taking the usual spots, the bigger fish have moved to different areas, where it is easier for them to feed.

the way isee it, is that the big fish go were the big bait go. as i said in other threads there were some big fish on the cape early season when the mackeral were around these fish went right to maine were the mackeral are all summer. Jersy/ staten island had large bait large fish into the middle of the june. the south shore of LI had large bait/ large fish as of last week. same thing with RI. i don't think it is a coindence. i would say the seals are doing a job on the large bait on the cape that is on the bottom close to shore. add that to the amount os sand eels on Stellwagon and thjats why no bigfish.

nope..not this year...doesnt mean that they are not around though..and I'm not trying as hard as usual...


I'm going to try and get out tonight. You going to be around Slingah? Won't be a late night for me though. But I wanted to check out the spot I was at Sunday afternoon at night.

My best year so far......
Granted, I am wiser this year than last. Hopefully I will continue down that path, listen, learn, adapt..

what effect does the large amounts of rain fall have on a. the fish and b. the bait?

What about dog fish??? They were a major pain for us off chatham. If you didn't pull up your bait within 100' past a rip, you'd have a pup.

I remember one time seeing hundreds of them in thick schools below my boat.

What I said was that we dont have a large resident population of LARGE fish on the south shore. 28-36" fish are schoolies, they travel in the same schools as 20" fish. When was the last time that you were bailing 20" fish and suddenly cought a 35lber? For me this has never happened, if anyone has ever read Billy the Greek's book would know what I am talking about. If you are finding large schools' of 20lb+ fish on the south shore, whether it be from boat or beach I tip my hat to you. This is isn't to say that the occasional large fish isn't to be had especially during the mackeral run but we just don't get the concentrated numbers of them like they do on the south side.

riverrat2; Aside from the dismal past couple years, I again disagree with you. We've had some very good years with many schools of large fish in the recent past.

What I said was that we dont have a large resident population of LARGE fish on the south shore. 28-36" fish are schoolies, they travel in the same schools as 20" fish. When was the last time that you were bailing 20" fish and suddenly cought a 35lber? For me this has never happened, if anyone has ever read Billy the Greek's book would know what I am talking about. If you are finding large schools' of 20lb+ fish on the south shore, whether it be from boat or beach I tip my hat to you. This is isn't to say that the occasional large fish isn't to be had especially during the mackeral run but we just don't get the concentrated numbers of them like they do on the south side.

Hooking a big fish in the midst of school fish is not rare, in fact there are quite often bigger fish undeneath and mixed in with school fish especially if the bait is heavy and the feed bag is on. School fish are just quicker on the draw.

Here is a theory, I noticed sense they changed the take to 2 fish a day at 28 every year the large fish catch goes down

I think the two fish per day at 28 inches has definitely impacted the numbers of big fish ... but what probably has hurt them more are the declining bait stocks - That is why Jersey is doing so well this year on big fish, they have the bait to support the fish down there right now.

I disagree, if the school of fish is strictly bass, no bluefish and you are bailing 20" fish your chances of hooking into a real large fish are very slim, not to say it is impossible nothing is set in stone regarding fish. If bluefish are envolved then it is certainly true that large bass can be cought "underneath" the school of fish cleaning up the scraps.

caught 4) 30lb. fish in less than an hour once ,,, school ?

As long as the feds keep protecting Dog Fish, Seals, Dragers, Herring Factroy ships, and just for giggles PLOVERS!!
And make the nessary limts to maintainn the fishery.

We will have no bait, No Fish, Peirod!!

They know what to do, but for some reason they fail to do anything till its to late!

There I said it!!

we keep taking the big fish out of the pool.
after a while they will become stunted just like the trout did.
need a slot.