The yearly maintenance charge is now $50 + RETURN SHIPPING!!!!!

wow

ya i'm like wtf at the moment...

i might just bail the bailed vsb150b i have... and am going to scratch that 250 off the list.

HOLY S#$#%% that sucks they got you with that one.you can not send them in but that will more then likely get you in the long run

YIKES!

Hmmm.... spend 160$ a year on a disposable lesser reel or 50$ a year on one that will last for life.... I think I'm ok with thr VS thanks. :bshake:

-Dave

Hmmm.... spend 160$ a year on a disposable lesser reel or 50$ a year on one that will last for life.... I think I'm ok with thr VS thanks. :bshake:

-Dave

You're overlooking the $700 initial outlay in your cost/benefit analysis ;) Over ten years, your cost of ownership is $1200, or about the same price as a self-serviceable Zee Baas. Plus return shipping, and over the last ten years, the price of VS factory service has doubled, from $25 to $50. Who's to say it won't run 100 clams in 10 years?

I spent $35 on a Penn 704 33 years ago. $5 for a new shaft about 15 years ago, and other than drag washers, eveything's original.

It's getting close to the point where it's cost me a buck a year to own it.

20 years ago, I paid $10 for a used Squidder, and another 3 bucks for new drag washers. What's that work out to, about 65 cents a year?

Both of those reels still run like a top.

It's cost me $70 a year to own my $420 VS 250 and I've never even sent it in for service.

Unfortunately, you are right, in the bigger picture. They don't make either of those other two reels any more and most of the new stuff is disposable after a season or two.

You're overlooking the $700 initial outlay in your cost/benefit analysis ;) Over ten years, your cost of ownership is $1200, or about the same price as a self-serviceable Zee Baas. Plus return shipping, and over the last ten years, the price of VS factory service has doubled, from $25 to $50. Who's to say it won't run 100 clams in 10 years?
You really need to quantify the "enjoyment", "fish catching" and "coolness" values as well to compute the net present value over the life of the reel.

I used the formula below to help choose a VS250 over a Penn 704z.

3 years later I still haven't caught squat :rtfm: :gf: :wall:

-spence

Spence - You are a piece of work !! Maybe a good Rummy replacement :humpty:

LOL spence.
I guess its kind of like owning a fancy sports car, you want the performance, but then you gotta put high-grade fuel in it every 10 miles and spend $500 a tire for replacements. In the end though, when you are screaming around a corner at 70mph with a babe at your side, it's all worth it. :rotf2:

You're overlooking the $700 initial outlay in your cost/benefit analysis ;) Over ten years, your cost of ownership is $1200, or about the same price as a self-serviceable Zee Baas. Plus return shipping, and over the last ten years, the price of VS factory service has doubled, from $25 to $50. Who's to say it won't run 100 clams in 10 years?

I spent $35 on a Penn 704 33 years ago. $5 for a new shaft about 15 years ago, and other than drag washers, eveything's original.

It's getting close to the point where it's cost me a buck a year to own it.

20 years ago, I paid $10 for a used Squidder, and another 3 bucks for new drag washers. What's that work out to, about 65 cents a year?

Both of those reels still run like a top.

It's cost me $70 a year to own my $420 VS 250 and I've never even sent it in for service.

Unfortunately, you are right, in the bigger picture. They don't make either of those other two reels any more and most of the new stuff is disposable after a season or two.

Then you have to compute the risk of the ZeeBaas. Just because it's serviceable doesn't mean it won't need parts.

Also you have the bonus risk that the company might not make it (there is history to support that possiblity...) and then you won't be able to get parts. $1200 paper weight...

It's only money, and if your happy it is all worth it, to me anyways

They have a new trainee in there so she is probably making twice what the old guy got to service them

I just posted some new figures over at SOL if you want to see what the NPV is over 15 years, with and without salvage value and varying the cost of capital.

There is no amount of utility that I could derive to justify paying $1,700 +/- for a stupid spinning reel. I'll just rely on my Fin-Nor Ahabs and 706's.

This is ridiculous - for $50 and shipping I could buy another reel.

Why did VS do this? Because that's what ZeeBaas is charging to service a reel (but on paper ZeeBaas' are self-serviceable). And because they probably are losing money on servicing.

Anyone looking for an old style VS250B (interior counterweight) with some reel rash, let me know.

what the hell, here they are

the takeaway from all the numbers:

If you plan to own a dunkable reel for a while, it makes more sense to get a zeebaas (assuming the damn reel works as advertised, which, judging from preliminary indications from people in the know, it is).

JohnR - if you are reading this please let me know what you think of the reel.

No VS for me thanks. I cant help but think back where surfcasting came from. People would be glad if they had a spinning reel period. Im OK with my disposable reels. Im thinking Okuma V-System reel. They have a 5-year everything covered warranty. 130 bucks. Sounds more my style. Will have a bunch of "disposable" reels that I will rotate.

Saltiga Surf reel. Waterproof sealed drag & body??:rolleyes:

That table is great...:bl2:

Van Staal's yearly service program is often a bit tough to interpret (both for owners and those selling them...) so I just talked to Craig about it since the news of the updated price of servicing has just recently hit the public.

Reels DO NOT need to go back every year. The idea of required yearly service is a hangover from the CT days, and hasn't been in effect for quite a while. It is recommended, if you regularly and completely submerge the reel, that you do so. If you're just getting splashed, it is unlikely you would want or need to send it back. If you have several reels (many VS owners do) and one spends all it's time as a back up or sees minimal service it's really pointless to send it back every year. If your main reel is running flawlessly at the end of the season, rinse it off and put it in storage and wait for spring. Sending it back isn't required.

If you do wait 5 years and you fish the reel senseless, there is the possibility that you'll have to pay for parts outside the normal line roller, drag washers, and o-rings. Whether a yearly servicing or waiting 5, 7 or 10 years makes more sense financially for you is your call.

Any additional questions can be posted here (and I'll do my best to answer them) or even better send them directly to the source, Craig Cantelmo at ccantelmo@vanstaal.com

No VS for me thanks. I cant help but think back where surfcasting came from. People would be glad if they had a spinning reel period.
That table is great...


Copied in part from a post on another subject by NY probably most celebrated surfcaster Al Bentsen :"The Penn squidder cost 25 dollars when it first came out in the 1930's. That was a weeks pay. Almost like the VS is a weeks pay today. "

Copied in part from a post on another subject by NY probably most celebrated surfcaster Al Bentsen :"The Penn squidder cost 25 dollars when it first came out in the 1930's. That was a weeks pay. Almost like the VS is a weeks pay today. "

It was probably only reserved for the rich. Im guessing anyone living in the 30's (great depression) wouldnt spend their weeks pay on a fishing reel. I dont care how bad you've got the bug.

VS a weeks pay? Ive got to find a better job.

Q. Can any part for the reel be purchased directly by the customer from Van Staal in the event the customer does their own repair and servicing.
Q. Does Van Staal have a price for the parts posted.
Q. Does Van Stall have schematics avaiable to customers.

They don't seem too confident in their product if they only offer a 1 year warranty.
& its 50 dollars plus parts for servicing? So if you had 100 bucks worth of parts that need to be replaced, you have a $150 bill sent to you (without notice? Anything under $200 without a call?)


And if someone buys a used reel & they want to put a warranty on it, They are getting slapped with a big chunk of change for a 1 year warranty?

I would also be interested in a parts list cost. What is an average repair bill? Or what if it starts leaking outside of the warranty? What will that repair run you? What is covered in the servicing? .....looks like ive got to make a VS phonecall

People's priorities are different. I change my vehicles' oil religiously, my brother doesn't even check his oil levels. I send out my nail guns for rebuilds when I feel they're due, while other contractors use them til they're cooked and have to buy new. Maintenance comes with ownership in my book. It is part of the investment. I mean, do you really figure in oil changes, new tires, etc. over four years when you buy a car? Given that I bought a used 200 very reasonably from another member, I can justify sending it out at the end of a season in which I fished it hard and was extremely pleased with the product.

van staal policy is sort of screwed up the warranty should be longer then one year,you should be contacted for any out of pocket repairs,never mind $50 plus parts.I have a love hate relationship with van staal there great reels when there working well, yet in the first year mine had water in the drag,when sent back it was repaired at the service charge of $36 the whole drag system replaced:claps:this year I have a few minor things that need to be seviced so I need to send it back agian this year so far in 2 years it has been in need of new parts that if the warranty was longer then the one year I would not have to pay anything I think a better warranty on a reel that is $700 is not to much to expect.

I bought an new old stock VS off Ebay and had the thing sieze up the first year...sent it in and only had the basic charge to fix.

Bought a Calcutta 400TE at SWE and had the free-spool lever break after one season. sent it in for service and Shimano sent me a brand new reel.

So I'm pretty happy with both companies for now. But even with the premuim price I can see how it would be difficult to provide top shelf service for very long.

-spence

I think the way the VS250 looks alone was well worth the price I paid for it, and the 18 bucks for the hat, but at least it comes with a cool pouch for you to store it in. :kewl:

A Shimano Spheros comes with a 1 year warranty too, for about a hundred bucks.

It seems that if VS feels their reels are worth $600, they should have a little more confidence in their product. If they think they can only offer a 1 year warranty, maybe they're not really worth all that money.

Van Staal's yearly service program is often a bit tough to interpret (both for owners and those selling them...) so I just talked to Craig about it since the news of the updated price of servicing has just recently hit the public.

Reels DO NOT need to go back every year. The idea of required yearly service is a hangover from the CT days, and hasn't been in effect for quite a while.

I skipped last year's servicing on my twice retrofitted VS 250 B. The drag is shot and the action is very stiff. Like hell they don't need to go back every year - and I am religious about taking care of my equipment (freshwater rinse, etc).

Anyways, why the hell should I have to depend on VS to service it?

n.b. there is an excellent thread with photos floating around on SOL on how to service your own VS by Rich Smith. I have not attempted it yet as I'd probably screw it up.

A Shimano Spheros comes with a 1 year warranty too, for about a hundred bucks.

It seems that if VS feels their reels are worth $600, they should have a little more confidence in their product. If they think they can only offer a 1 year warranty, maybe they're not really worth all that money.

Exactly, I think your paying to get into the VIP room. Where you can be in a small group of people that own one. You choose your color & PAY to keep your semi-unique appearance. & Keep your reputation up on the rocks. It seems the Van Staal has become more of a symbol, like a right of passage, a sign to give respect, that the owner has become an accomplished surfcaster. :laugha:

Exactly, I think your paying to get into the VIP room. Where you can be in a small group of people that own one. You choose your color & PAY to keep your semi-unique appearance. & Keep your reputation up on the rocks. It seems the Van Staal has become more of a symbol, like a right of passage, a sign to give respect, that the owner has become an accomplished surfcaster. :laugha:

Yup, you got me.......

wtf

hey just kidding around... I still want one... venting cause I need more money, just thought it was a funny way of looking at it

Remember the gear doesn't make the fisherman just like the tools don't make the mechanic, it's how you use it not what you use

Some of you guys are cracking me up...whatever you are on ,I want some:buds:

Some of you drive a Benz that cost you a 100K yet this magnificent piece of German craftsmanship comes only with a warranty for few years.Gees ,for that kind of money it should be warranted for at least ,what a hundred years?Let do analyst.
VS at $600 ...one year
Benz at $100000....($600 per year basis).............basically your Benz should be warranted for .......166 years.Maybe we should ask Dr.Z to design a reel instead of the car.:soon:

Its just a darn reel,if you have time to stress over this you got waaaaay to much time on your hands.Life is too short ,fish hard

Exactly, I think your paying to get into the VIP room. Where you can be in a small group of people that own one. You choose your color & PAY to keep your semi-unique appearance. & Keep your reputation up on the rocks. It seems the Van Staal has become more of a symbol, like a right of passage, a sign to give respect, that the owner has become an accomplished surfcaster. :laugha:

Up until a few years ago I thought the same thing. Then I got one and my thoughts changed. No other reel has been able to do what this reel can do period. When wading out to a bar or rock I use the rod as a staff totally submerging the reel. This is the only reel to be able to survive so far.

Can you bury the spheros in the sand. Then dig it up and rinse it in the ocean and expect it to perform. I doubt it...........

Van Staal's yearly service program is often a bit tough to interpret (both for owners and those selling them...) so I just talked to Craig about it since the news of the updated price of servicing has just recently hit the public.

Reels DO NOT need to go back every year. The idea of required yearly service is a hangover from the CT days, and hasn't been in effect for quite a while. It is recommended, if you regularly and completely submerge the reel, that you do so. If you're just getting splashed, it is unlikely you would want or need to send it back. If you have several reels (many VS owners do) and one spends all it's time as a back up or sees minimal service it's really pointless to send it back every year. If your main reel is running flawlessly at the end of the season, rinse it off and put it in storage and wait for spring. Sending it back isn't required.

If you do wait 5 years and you fish the reel senseless, there is the possibility that you'll have to pay for parts outside the normal line roller, drag washers, and o-rings. Whether a yearly servicing or waiting 5, 7 or 10 years makes more sense financially for you is your call.

Any additional questions can be posted here (and I'll do my best to answer them) or even better send them directly to the source, Craig Cantelmo at ccantelmo@vanstaal.com

Pete, I am a bit confused by this. Does not sending it back every year change in any way what will be serviced/replaced for free, or at least above and beyond the now $50 fee I have sent my 250 in every year since I got it. Each time it has come back with a bag of parts that were replaced at only the service charge. Let's say I feel the reel is working fine at the end of this season, but then halfway through next season it siezes up. Would they charge me any additional fee when I send it back since it has been over a year since the last time I sent it in? If there is no requirement to send it in, why not wait until it craps out to return it? Do they have it in writing somewhere stating you no longer need to send it in every year? I have had my 250 last anywhere from 1 month to over a season between emergency repairs.

I skipped last year's servicing on my twice retrofitted VS 250 B. The drag is shot and the action is very stiff. Like hell they don't need to go back every year - and I am religious about taking care of my equipment (freshwater rinse, etc).

Anyways, why the hell should I have to depend on VS to service it?

n.b. there is an excellent thread with photos floating around on SOL on how to service your own VS by Rich Smith. I have not attempted it yet as I'd probably screw it up.

Maybe you're too nice to your reel. They don't like that.

Seriously though, the idea is to put when to send the reel back in your hands.

If something's wrong send it back; if not, fish it.

As for servicing your own reel, just don't put it back together wrong. There's zero warranty love if you do that.

ANNUAL SERVICE CHARGE
Annual service for reels within warranty will be charged at the current rate of $36.95. This does not cover line roller, drag
washer or handle bearing replacement for reels beyond 12 months from original date of purchase. Parts and labor charges
will apply (See Additional Charges).
Annual service for reels out of warranty will be charged at a rate of $36.95 plus additional parts and labor as required to
establish limited lifetime warranty status (See Additional Charges).

Ok $50+shipping when you feel the reel needs to be serviced still gets you to establish limited lifetime warranty status? or is that only if you service yearly...
The wording makes it seem as if you don't send it in yearly you will be out of the warranty loop therefore having to be charged $50+parts and labor....

:spin::think::huh::confused:

Pete, I am a bit confused by this. Does not sending it back every year change in any way what will be serviced/replaced for free, or at least above and beyond the now $50 fee I have sent my 250 in every year since I got it. Each time it has come back with a bag of parts that were replaced at only the service charge. Let's say I feel the reel is working fine at the end of this season, but then halfway through next season it siezes up. Would they charge me any additional fee when I send it back since it has been over a year since the last time I sent it in? If there is no requirement to send it in, why not wait until it craps out to return it? Do they have it in writing somewhere stating you no longer need to send it in every year? I have had my 250 last anywhere from 1 month to over a season between emergency repairs.

You're basically right on.

The only thing to consider is that typically if the reel has been serviced regularly (yearly or so) they're likely to cover the parts for you if something goes wrong.

If the reel comes in destroyed ten years later after zero service visits they're going to be a little less forgiving.

I would email Craig if you want something definitive in writing.

The new service page:

http://www.vanstaal.com/Service.html

The product return form is dated though, hopefully when it is updated there will be some more clarity...

I agree with Mac. I put my VS250 through absolute hell. I use the rod as a wading staff and the VS is underwater half the time. I have fallen on it. I fish impossible places on th Narragansett shore. Wade out to submerged bars, fish Deep Hole, Carpenters, Napatree and a ton of other places. Other than one problem which was a faulty seal that VS put in during the maintenance in Dec of last year, I have had ZERO problems.
I have fished penn 704s and 706s for 30 years and they are good reels. Almost bullet proof. But I have had problems with them like everyone else that fishes in the surf 100+ night s a year. Bail springs broke (until I converted the 704 to bailess) dog springs broke. Drag washers froze unless you cleaned them every couple of trips. Drop it in the sand and you are screwed. Got to take it apart.
That being said, I think it comes down to what you can afford or what you feel comfortable spending. After 40+ years in the surf I felt I wanted to fish with a VS. To each his or hers own. JMO

I'm not saying a Shperos is a better reel, I'm only saying that with so few moving parts, and with the way people react to long warranties, there has to be a reason why VS doesn't offer one. Someone has to have crunched the numbers and decided that it wouldn't work financially.

I agree with Mac. I put my VS250 through absolute hell. I use the rod as a wading staff and the VS is underwater half the time. I have fallen on it. I fish impossible places on th Narragansett shore. Wade out to submerged bars, fish Deep Hole, Carpenters, Napatree and a ton of other places. Other than one problem which was a faulty seal that VS put in during the maintenance in Dec of last year, I have had ZERO problems.
I have fished penn 704s and 706s for 30 years and they are good reels. Almost bullet proof. But I have had problems with them like everyone else that fishes in the surf 100+ night s a year. Bail springs broke (until I converted the 704 to bailess) dog springs broke. Drag washers froze unless you cleaned them every couple of trips. Drop it in the sand and you are screwed. Got to take it apart.
That being said, I think it comes down to what you can afford or what you feel comfortable spending. After 40+ years in the surf I felt I wanted to fish with a VS. To each his or hers own. JMO

I think this sums up the reasons why some decide to get a VS more then anything else.

It has been my experience as well.

Reality is, for most, issues outside of normal occasional service are rare.

Thanks guys, got my questions answered.
I got mine 5 months ago and its fine, so I wont send it in this year, I'll go another season. Unfortunatley I do know how well the drag works.........

I fish mine hard, sometimes as much as once a week. It gets punished, I don't even bother to wipe the water off of it when I take a wave across the boots.

It's the entire lifestyle I guess. Sort of like the Marlboro Man...

-spence

I fish mine hard, sometimes as much as once a week. It gets punished, I don't even bother to wipe the water off of it when I take a wave across the boots.

It's the entire lifestyle I guess. Sort of like the Marlboro Man...

-spence


I bet those shiney boots are wiped off IMEDIATELY though!

I fish mine hard, sometimes as much as once a week. It gets punished, I don't even bother to wipe the water off of it when I take a wave across the boots.

It's the entire lifestyle I guess. Sort of like the Marlboro Man...

-spence

:cheers: Good stuff!

I bet those shiney boots are wiped off IMEDIATELY though!
Nope...I always keep my shell cordovan polished to perfection. The thin waxy coating is like water tight body armour.

-spence

Can you purchase parts from them? If so I would fix or maintain my own. P.

Oh hell PM you could make your own parts :D

Just got an email back from Craig. Asked him alot of questions. I am now sold on a Van Staal. He emailed me back overnight. Great service. And everything made sense. I like the idea of the new service program where you arent entitled to send it in each year. & you only pay for what you want to have done, You only pay for wear items. Not everyone is going to be swimming with their reel. I feel I am going to be very happy now owning one. I suggest if you have any questions email them or call. You'll feel like part of the van staal family.

I bought an new old stock VS off Ebay and had the thing sieze up the first year...

Bought a Calcutta 400TE at SWE and had the free-spool lever break after one season.

-spence

Spence, these problems must have been caused by you reeling backwards because they surely weren't caused by use... :wave: