Do you think that someone who is a "born Again Christian" and beleives that that bible is the actual factual word of God and lives and breathes everything in that book, including the concept of the world was created in six days, can really be effective as a world leader?

George Bush does.

In a world as complex as ours, with so many different cultures, religions and ethnicities where values of life vary to such a great extent and in the world political arena you have to deal with the devil, can these types of people truly be judged to be in touch with these realities so that they may make effective leaders.

I don't. I think the born again thing is absurd in the extreme. :uhuh:

got some bac friends- seems to me they like the no-strings, here are all the answers, stay in the box approach.

i go out of my way to tick off jesus jumpers.

freakin brainwahsed robots.

Flap, are you saying GWB is a born agian christian? thats incorrect.

I am an atheist at best, or more so i believe that the "earth" is a god to worship, but what you are saying is that people with different religious views than me cannot be rational, effective people.

SO lets explore that, all christains ( I was raised and educated in catholic schools through high school) believe that a man was born in a little town, he was a son of god, killed and then came back to life and then now people's sins are forgiven if they beleive in him and then they can go to heaven. How wacked is that?
In my mind doenst follow the laws of nature at all. So where do you draw the line with what is "in touch with reality"???
In my mind, anyone who has faith in a higher power is not in touch with reality, since there is NO reality to prove. There is only faith. Cant prove faith.

I don't believe Bush has ever completed "born again" certification...but he does like people to think he is. Obviously this is used well by his political advisors.

Personally I don't have any issue with evangelicals, as long as they keep a firewall between their faith and politics and keep it to themselves. But some of the widespread beliefs shared in this community I do find quite difficult to comprehend or just simply outdated, bigoted and very intolerant.

Could a born again be a good leader? I'm sure they could...but you'd have to consider that most of those in politics professing to be motivated by Christ rarely, if ever actually behave like Jesus would.

The Haggert thing was the icing on the cake. For a man, in all likelyhood a gay man to speak of this darkness that's tormented him his entire life is just pathetic. It seems he was a natural leader, image what he could have done to improve the world had his life not been weighed down by this anchor of self-hate.

Lord only know how his kids minds work. How much you want to bet they off some gay kid at school as payback for this "sickness" ruining their trust funds?

-spence

I am anti-organized religeon.

Funny thing is that the "family business" is the catholic church.
Uncle is a Catholic Priest in Canada.
Grandfather quit the seminary.
Great uncle was a priest
lots of other aunts that were sisters, and uncles that were priests all across the family tree.

I was raised catholic but by highschool religion class I had already seen the flaws in the teachings that they were preaching acceptance but only those we want to accept.
bah.

I was forced to go to church for quite some time.
then I saw the part about jesus saying the church was the people not the place. thats when I was allowed to stop.

the more you learn about something the more you find you dont know about that something.... like fishing for striped bass.

take physics.
the further you go the more you find contradictions to the theorems and laws that you learned in the previous course. until you finally get to the end of coursework and are faced with the "ok, now you figure it out cause we cant"

prayers needed...people on this thread

prayers needed...people on this thread
Can't ya feel the love :)

America is a diverse country, there's no doubting that.

-spence

Christianity is about core values. If anyone uses those values to make decisions for the good of all there should be no problems, in fact it could lead to utopia. The problems arise when someone hides behind those values, spreads the word of those values and then turns around and makes decisions that are the complete opposite to only benefit a few.. that is a real problem & that is where we are today.

That man may claim to be a Christian, but his actions don't show it. Neither is he a scientist. As for born-again, maybe the world'd be better off if he wasn't born at all.

OH OH John ... gonna need another forum :eyes: soon.

Fundamentalism is what is wrong with the world....It hobbles nations and is at odds with modernity, tolerance and prosperity.

It's why some societies can exist for a thousand years and still not be able to provide basic infrastructure to support an economy that enables them to move into the first world.

Secularism - the separation of church and state – and freedom of religion are big parts of what has enabled this country to be able to have a robot on Mars while others are dragging people out of their homes and cutting their heads off over a split on who was the true heir to Allah.

We are an increasingly centrist nation and this week – like 1992 – was another confirmation of our true nature. In this country the power of the center is felt at the polls and both sides are alternately shocked – though they should not be. Moderates do not spend time espousing their positions or trying to convert the wackos on the far left and the far right, but they are by far the majority – it’s quite evident. Each time we turn too far to the left or too far to the right, we take a giant step back to the center – thank God.

Fundamentalism is what is wrong with the world....It hobbles nations and is at odds with modernity, tolerance and prosperity.
I don't think fundamentalisim is the problem...it's the political expression of fundamentalisim.

-spence

That man may claim to be a Christian, but his actions don't show it. Neither is he a scientist. As for born-again, maybe the world'd be better off if he wasn't born at all.

Alec? Is that you?

OH OH John ... gonna need another forum :eyes: soon.

yep.. or it could go in the new one.. politics and religion.. kinda the same,.. hot button topics...
meybe politics, religion, and VS threads.. all seem to end up in a shoot out.

Utopia, oh God.............

Isn't fundamentalism the verbal or physical expression of a fundamentalists? So fundamentalism is in all liklihood an overt physical act.

I think if Gore was elected we would have had a pefect world by now, no doubt about it.:bl2:

I think born again christians have the potential to be the biggest hypocrites in the world.

Have you heard.................................. the word

I think born again christians have the potential to be the biggest hypocrites in the world.

But the basis for christianity is....forgiveness, no? So you can only be a hippocrtite if you do not forgive.

recommended website for fundamentalist muslims:

http://www.masturbateforpeace.com

]

recommended website for fundamentalist muslims:

http://www.masturbateforpeace.com

]

How the hell do you find this stuff?!

I let my guard down, no more religious chats.

Spare the rod...and the reel, the plugs, (no chunkin', though)...

Things were so much simpler when people were ignorant. Some people still are.

Christianity is about core values. If anyone uses those values to make decisions for the good of all there should be no problems, in fact it could lead to utopia. The problems arise when someone hides behind those values, spreads the word of those values and then turns around and makes decisions that are the complete opposite to only benefit a few.. that is a real problem & that is where we are today.

talk about hitting the nail on the head :tm:

The ignorant shall inherit the Earth!!!
WAIT A MINUTE!!! They have already!!!
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Alec? Is that you?

:bl2: :laughs:

How many of you get the "Sportsman"s Channel" on your cable or sattelite tv? Have your ever seen the amount of born agains on those shows. Son Country Outdoors where the cross on calgary is surrounded by elk and deer in the sunset. The Sportsman's Bible, In camo cover, offered by the (?) Rev. Jimmy Sites, camo clothing that has the cross situated in the pattern. Okay, let's kill that deer or that bear or take out a monkey with a blow gun and poison ( "the Rev. Jimmy Sites did that) "thank you Jesus, thank you lord" as they shoot this moose and show it standing there, blood gushing out it's mouth and nostrils like a fire hose and then slowly falling to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I am not against hunting in any way but to connect Jesus and taking out a bear from a stand with a bow while the bear is baited in with Trix cereal and mini marshmallows while praising the Lord is just creepy.

Reality takes a back seat with these people. 'The Rapture" has them all in a tither of giddy joy. Yippee were all gonna die in a giant cataclyism" and then rise to heaven. (Don't forget your your Mathews Solo-Cam while your rising up into the clouds and angels are singing. Oh yeah, send me fifty bucks and God will give you wealth beyond your wildest dreams!

Maggots like Jimmy Swaggart, that two timing, drug using whore monger, have people desperate for help believing that they have the answer, for a donation of course. Nascar, camo bibles, TV Evangelists out getting Crystal Meth and "massages from Gay prostitutes.

Born agains, like all religious exremeism has this world totally F&cked up. Whatever happened to just caring for one another, respecting one another and just being a decent human being?

How the hell did we get to this?

How about the guy in the morning infomercials selling 'miracle spring water'
what a scam... too many people use religion as a way to make money and justify their life...

Born okay the first time, thanks! :happy:

Don't forget your your Mathews Solo-Cam while your rising up into the clouds and angels are singing.

Only a Matthews will get you into heaven, according to the people who own them. :jester:

Being the sinner that I am, I hunt with bowtech.

I own 'God's Country' camo it not only does it kill more deer for me but it represents what I beleive. What do you have against Jesus? Its obviouse you don't know him. Faith works for people who practice it,,,Mattews bows is a fine example. Theres always that 10% in everything.

http://www.godscountrycamouflage.com/
http://christianoutdoorsman.com/

Seems some people are more offended by Christians then they are by criminals.........go figure.

dude ... I am laughing outloud here.
I really hope you are all joking.

I believe in the flying spaghetti monster.

What I was struck by when I worked digging graves was that more people believed in ghosts than god.

What I was struck by when I worked digging graves was that more people believed in ghosts than god.

Edgar Allen Poe said: "I never believed in Ghosts but I've been afraid of them all my life".

Ahh you should never talk about religion or politics

That said am I right thinking that bin ladin is close to Hitler in thinking???
(kill all that do not believe in their religion)????

:0

Hitler wanted to kill all the non-Aryans.

Bin Laden only wants to kill the infidels - and convert the world to Islam at the point of the sword. We are all welcome to convert and join the Mujahideen.

That's the message to the most radical of his followers - but he's a pragmatist in a lot of ways, he does not believe he can conquer the world. Realistically, he'd be more than pleased to drive the Saudi Royal Family from power and oust the infidels from the three cities holy to the Islamic faith: Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem...

He might succeed with respect to the Saudi Royal Family and Mecca and Medina - but you'll see the Four Horsemen before Jerusalem falls.

I own 'God's Country' camo it not only does it kill more deer for me but it represents what I beleive. What do you have against Jesus? Its obviouse you don't know him. Faith works for people who practice it,,,Mattews bows is a fine example. Theres always that 10% in everything.

http://www.godscountrycamouflage.com/
http://christianoutdoorsman.com/

I do know Jesus. I was touched by the hand of God in 1993. I was 37 and in very big trouble health wise. Being told I would need a heart transplant to survive. On the morning of my 37th birthday while alone in my ICU room with oxygen and various intraveanous needles in my arms and machine whirring I asked God to help me and through the voice of my brother, who was KIA in VietNam in 69' I was told that I would recover, fully, which I did. I was surrounded by a haze of light and serene calm at 3 in the morning and I was given an understanding,a message I believe by God of what he truly wants from us and in it's simplicity I live my life. I know him better than you do my friend and each day thank him for everything he gives us. For years I thought I must have been saved for a purpose but really it was quite simple.

His message to me, and it is a simple one, is to take care of each other, respect each other and live a good life. That's all he wants. He doesn't want us to grovel before him or to make every move on his behalf or force his worship on anyone, just to be good to each other and let each and every person be in peace.

He knows we all falter and he knows we go astray but he loves us all and just wants us to know he is there when we need. I have my demons too, it's part of life and he is okay with that. The experience drew me toward what is truly, what you would call his grace. The sun rising over he sea, the shade of a tree on a sunny day and the clarity of a newborn baby's eyes, these are the things he wants us to share that he made for us.

The bible holds no real meaning, it's words are those of men through the ages who have corrupted the meaning in words for their own sake and control of others, his true church surrounds you each day as you go about your life, nothing he made is perfect thus we get sick, we succumb to addiction or desease and we make the wrong choices sometimes. He understands but doesn't want or need us to prostrate ourselves and center our life around what some men have done to convince us of his presence. He is simply there and knowing we know that and living simply in respect and caring for one another is enough to him. Trust me I know.

That's the message to the most radical of his followers - but he's a pragmatist in a lot of ways, he does not believe he can conquer the world. Realistically, he'd be more than pleased to drive the Saudi Royal Family from power and oust the infidels from the three cities holy to the Islamic faith: Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem...
A very good observation.

Bin Laden believes he's in a defensive struggle against the West, and it's advances upon Islam. His called to conversion are part of the old Islamic process for making war, sort of a code or tradition.

We really don't understand much of how Muslim leaders use religious language to community policy...instead just laugh at how wacky they sound. It results on Bin Laden sounding not that wacky to mainstream Islam were terrorim feeds.

-spence

How many of you get the "Sportsman"s Channel" on your cable or sattelite tv? Have your ever seen the amount of born agains on those shows. Son Country Outdoors where the cross on calgary is surrounded by elk and deer in the sunset. The Sportsman's Bible, In camo cover, offered by the (?) Rev. Jimmy Sites, camo clothing that has the cross situated in the pattern. Okay, let's kill that deer or that bear or take out a monkey with a blow gun and poison ( "the Rev. Jimmy Sites did that) "thank you Jesus, thank you lord" as they shoot this moose and show it standing there, blood gushing out it's mouth and nostrils like a fire hose and then slowly falling to the ground. Don't get me wrong, I am not against hunting in any way but to connect Jesus and taking out a bear from a stand with a bow while the bear is baited in with Trix cereal and mini marshmallows while praising the Lord is just creepy.

Reality takes a back seat with these people. 'The Rapture" has them all in a tither of giddy joy. Yippee were all gonna die in a giant cataclyism" and then rise to heaven. (Don't forget your your Mathews Solo-Cam while your rising up into the clouds and angels are singing. Oh yeah, send me fifty bucks and God will give you wealth beyond your wildest dreams!

Maggots like Jimmy Swaggart, that two timing, drug using whore monger, have people desperate for help believing that they have the answer, for a donation of course. Nascar, camo bibles, TV Evangelists out getting Crystal Meth and "massages from Gay prostitutes.

Born agains, like all religious exremeism has this world totally F&cked up. Whatever happened to just caring for one another, respecting one another and just being a decent human being?

How the hell did we get to this?

And you have the nerve to call them intolerant?

What do you have against Jesus?

Nothing.

It's just I wish he was here right now to give humanity an update ... 2,000+ years is a long time to be gone from the scene and leaves a lot of room for people to misinterpret his teachings.

That and give organized churches a spanking or two. :hee:

In his 33 years on earth, Christ is on record exactly once displaying anger.

It wasn't at Pilate who condemned him to death.

It wasn't at the Centurions who nailed his limbs to a cross.

It wasn't at Judas who betrayed him for a piddling sum of money.

It wasn't at Peter who denied knowing him 3 times after Christ was in custody.

He forgave all of them.

The anger was displayed at the Pharisees and money changers who turned his Father's house into a den of thieves.

Now I have the soundtack to Jesus Christ Superstar stuck in my Head


In his 33 years on earth, Christ is on record exactly once displaying anger.

It wasn't at Pilate who condemned him to death.

It wasn't at the Centurions who nailed his limbs to a cross.

It wasn't at Judas who betrayed him for a piddling sum of money.

It wasn't at Peter who denied knowing him 3 times after Christ was in custody.

He forgave all of them.

The anger was displayed at the Pharisees and money changers who turned his Father's house into a den of thieves.

the talkin jesus doll has been crossed off the list

by the marines... who run toys for tots...

saying the doll is inapropriate for children...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/ravenob1/Jesus.jpg um maybe he should
sing like christmas carols instead... hmmm

"jesus christ is coming to town.....
so ya better not pout
ya better not fight
ya better sing silent night tonight
because jesus christ is coming......"

to townnnnnnn :bl: la la la la la...

They all believe in good and evil. Regardless of whatever religion, there is one God. All believers, whatever faith believe that. They might call Him, something different, bet there is only one.:)

I do know Jesus. I was touched by the hand of God in 1993. I was 37 and in very big trouble health wise. Being told I would need a heart transplant to survive. On the morning of my 37th birthday while alone in my ICU room with oxygen and various intraveanous needles in my arms and machine whirring I asked God to help me and through the voice of my brother, who was KIA in VietNam in 69' I was told that I would recover, fully, which I did. I was surrounded by a haze of light and serene calm at 3 in the morning and I was given an understanding,a message I believe by God of what he truly wants from us and in it's simplicity I live my life. I know him better than you do my friend and each day thank him for everything he gives us. For years I thought I must have been saved for a purpose but really it was quite simple.

His message to me, and it is a simple one, is to take care of each other, respect each other and live a good life. That's all he wants. He doesn't want us to grovel before him or to make every move on his behalf or force his worship on anyone, just to be good to each other and let each and every person be in peace.

He knows we all falter and he knows we go astray but he loves us all and just wants us to know he is there when we need. I have my demons too, it's part of life and he is okay with that. The experience drew me toward what is truly, what you would call his grace. The sun rising over he sea, the shade of a tree on a sunny day and the clarity of a newborn baby's eyes, these are the things he wants us to share that he made for us.

The bible holds no real meaning, it's words are those of men through the ages who have corrupted the meaning in words for their own sake and control of others, his true church surrounds you each day as you go about your life, nothing he made is perfect thus we get sick, we succumb to addiction or desease and we make the wrong choices sometimes. He understands but doesn't want or need us to prostrate ourselves and center our life around what some men have done to convince us of his presence. He is simply there and knowing we know that and living simply in respect and caring for one another is enough to him. Trust me I know.

Flap WELL SAID the voice of a reasonable man.:claps: :btu:

The bible(the word of God) holds no real meaning? Without getting to deep I think that a silly think to say, I mean people whether 2000 yrs ago, today or or 2000 years from now need the bible to know the truth.

They all believe in good and evil. Regardless of whatever religion, there is one God. All believers, whatever faith believe that. They might call Him, something different, bet there is only one.:)


Gues you never heard of Hindu, Buddist or Shinto religions (among others)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_camp

:huh:

Bush! Who is pulling the string in that House? He couldn't find his hand in front of his face... Thank God! Only 2 years left.. Can you say Lamduck! :shocked: Good things are coming again...

Bush! Who is pulling the string in that House? He couldn't find his hand in front of his face... Thank God! Only 2 years left.. Can you say Lamduck! :shocked: Good things are coming again...

wrong forum :rolleyes:

The bible(the word of God) holds no real meaning? Without getting to deep I think that a silly think to say, I mean people whether 2000 yrs ago, today or or 2000 years from now need the bible to know the truth.

You are mis-guided brother Goose, look inside yourself and the answer is there. Truth is not really in that book, guiding principles in some ways maybe but the real truth is so simple and the facts of the history of the church so clouded, the bible is an instrument of control, always has been and has been re-writen so many times by people who time has proved to be corrupt and dis-ingenuous it cannot be, by practical men who are strong enough in thier conviction to say so, believed to be anything other than part fable, part instrument of control and somewhere deep inside it, the real message may lay, the simple message of a good life of caring, understanding and respect.

I watch the tv shows, and there are many and I see men and women on alters preaching to thousands. Men and women whose words are like an anesthisia and hypnosis, masters of spin and sway, adorned in the best clothes and jewelry emploring and demanding absolute obedience to God and contributions to "his" cause to be "annointed in Christ", it's all a sham for the weak and eventually all those faithfull born again Christians will meet their maker and realize the corruption that fooled them into being something other than what was truly the most important thing.The root cause of our world troubles today would be better off without these people and organized religion as a whole.

The message is so simple it cannot be grasped as such by you and your kind, I find that so fascinating.
God's experiment gone awry.

I probably should let this die, but I'm grouchy today. Flap, I dont know you and all and shouldnt stereotype, but you're posts in this thread (and others) are the entire reason I do not trust liberals. Its the mentality of "believe what you want, but if its not what I beleive its because you're not as smart as me". This si the undercurrent of all the anti- Bush rhetoric, war rhetric, now religions rhetoric. As stated above, I am not religious, however I attended relisgiosu schools most of my life and in college took a number of religious classes. To say you got it figured out and hundreds of millions of people are wrong is too funny and exemplifies the liberal view. Always judging others. Did you notice that all the negative religion comments above come from the SAME people who have liberal views on other threads? As Mako Mike pointed out, not very tolerant.
I applaud those of religious conviction, do some use it for their own gain, of course, just like anytinhg else. But faith hope and love are key elements in MOST religions and a world witnout those is one I do not want to live in.

...faith hope and love are key elements in MOST religions and a world witnout those is one I do not want to live in.

The Muslim world could use a little more sex, drugs, rock'n roll, and a good pork roast.

The Muslim world could use a little more sex, drugs, rock'n roll, and a good pork roast.


Add fishing and you've basically summed up my life.

I've dated a few witches (wicken) in my day. Not many people know that they reach their sexual peak on nights when there is a full moon. I thought it was a bit weird at first. But I'll tell ya what, after that first full moon experience, I knew the date of every full moon for the next few months.:spidey:

I probably should let this die, but I'm grouchy today. Flap, I dont know you and all and shouldnt stereotype, but you're posts in this thread (and others) are the entire reason I do not trust liberals. Its the mentality of "believe what you want, but if its not what I beleive its because you're not as smart as me". This si the undercurrent of all the anti- Bush rhetoric, war rhetric, now religions rhetoric. As stated above, I am not religious, however I attended relisgiosu schools most of my life and in college took a number of religious classes. To say you got it figured out and hundreds of millions of people are wrong is too funny and exemplifies the liberal view. Always judging others. Did you notice that all the negative religion comments above come from the SAME people who have liberal views on other threads? As Mako Mike pointed out, not very tolerant.
I applaud those of religious conviction, do some use it for their own gain, of course, just like anytinhg else. But faith hope and love are key elements in MOST religions and a world witnout those is one I do not want to live in.

Boy you are grouchy, see Rappin' Mikey's Wicken thing and the full moon effect. Sounds good to me. Not really that liberal just a deep thinker and realist. And yes Bush does suck.:kewl:

Goose, if you have time, Google that. a LOT of reading..
Is the Bible the word of God?.. might be some in there, but not all..
interesting stuff, whe you see who was involved the politics of it all, and how many times it has been revised and edited to meet with certain agendas...

I think Mike P hit the nail on the head with his post too.. that is one passage the televangilists, and the plate passers don't dwell on...

2 years ago, when my mother passed.. a devout bible scholar, church go-er. and mother of 6 sons.. (only one of whom (and not me) attends church, much to her dismay) anyway, I spent the better part of one morning with her pastor from her church in Brewster, going over her funeral service arrangement, and we talked of her beliefs, and differences with both my dad, and brothers, over the matter of the bible and religion. He surprised me, when I told him, while I do not attend church, or have any love of organized religion, or hold much that God's word is verbatim in the bible.. and that I feel much closer to my maker, when I am alone on a dark beach.. and fishing.....than I ever could be in his, or any other church, and I found that to be my "religion", if you could call it that... he smiled.. chuckled and said.. "Me too".. we both got real silent.. and smiled at each other for a while.. BTW.. he did a great job on her service.. "and he is a pretty good fisherman too, I later found out ;).." :D

To borrow a phrase from Jimmy Buffet..
"Television Preachers, with bad hair and pimples..
The God's Honest Truth.. it just ain't that simple!"

I feel pretty comfortable that if I have to be judged, it will be on who I am, what I have done, and not on what book I read, or church I attended, or didn't.. I think Flap is right, when he said it's more on how we act, get along, and treat each other..

BTW.. I am no Liberal or Conservative either... ;)
Ah.. religion and politics.. they should never mix.. but always seem to get thrown tin the same pot..

After re-reading this..I prolly should just delete this.. but after all that typing, I might as well post it.. Flame On.. Over and OUT!

Oh yeah, and there is a difference, and don't confuse it, with difference of opinion and intolerance. In Bush's world if it isn't the Christian right way it's not the Christian Right way and that is a wrong way (does that make sense?)

Enough religion I am going fishing tonight, you know outside maybe the wicken thing has some promise.

I probably should let this die, but I'm grouchy today. Flap, I dont know you and all and shouldnt stereotype, but you're posts in this thread (and others) are the entire reason I do not trust liberals. Its the mentality of "believe what you want, but if its not what I beleive its because you're not as smart as me". This si the undercurrent of all the anti- Bush rhetoric, war rhetric, now religions rhetoric. As stated above, I am not religious, however I attended relisgiosu schools most of my life and in college took a number of religious classes. To say you got it figured out and hundreds of millions of people are wrong is too funny and exemplifies the liberal view. Always judging others. Did you notice that all the negative religion comments above come from the SAME people who have liberal views on other threads? As Mako Mike pointed out, not very tolerant.
I applaud those of religious conviction, do some use it for their own gain, of course, just like anytinhg else. But faith hope and love are key elements in MOST religions and a world witnout those is one I do not want to live in.

You hit the nail on the head with tolerence issue and liberals. They love to preach to us conservatives to be more tolerent to thier lifestyles and beliefs, yet when do they EVER practice what they preach and attempt to become tolerent towards our views?? Never. Tolerence to a Liberal means a Conservative must change thier views, but the Liberal need not change thiers.

Bunch of freakin' hypocrytes.

w-i-c-c-a-n

:lasso:

They love to preach to us conservatives

Skippy, do you even know what a Conservative is?

Hint: It's not an anti-liberal ;)

-spence

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - 1Corinthians Chpt 2 verse 14


The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. - Psalm Chpt 53 Verse 1

The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. - Psalm Chpt 53 Verse 1

And don't forget...

We are god
'cause only we can create the idea
Of his existence in our holy brains

-Yellow, Stella 1985

I probably should let this die, but I'm grouchy today. Flap, I dont know you and all and shouldnt stereotype, but you're posts in this thread (and others) are the entire reason I do not trust liberals. Its the mentality of "believe what you want, but if its not what I beleive its because you're not as smart as me". This si the undercurrent of all the anti- Bush rhetoric, war rhetric, now religions rhetoric. As stated above, I am not religious, however I attended relisgiosu schools most of my life and in college took a number of religious classes. To say you got it figured out and hundreds of millions of people are wrong is too funny and exemplifies the liberal view. Always judging others. Did you notice that all the negative religion comments above come from the SAME people who have liberal views on other threads? As Mako Mike pointed out, not very tolerant.
I applaud those of religious conviction, do some use it for their own gain, of course, just like anytinhg else. But faith hope and love are key elements in MOST religions and a world witnout those is one I do not want to live in.


On a side note: Maybe the Demoncrats will spend more money on education

The only true church is within each and every one of us....

I also like ....there is nothing new under the sun


or..... Richie Haven`s FREEDOM


and my own....the lost, scared, and desperate find strength in their convictions, finally.... or for the time being.

seriously consdering useing your same signature flap.

Can't tell you how many times I could typed "what Flaptail said".. I realy enjoy your insight when it comes to striped bass, its inteligent very well thought out just like some of what you said here but that doesn't mean your right because what we're discussing is not seen. You have a good head on your shoulders but your cutting yourself short of your potentual thinking the way you do. I could go on giving my personel experinces in my live with God and Jesus but why bother, people like you will find other excuses o to excuse the events in my life instead of giving in to the fact that it my faith that is the real reason. Everyone is entiteled to their own opinion and I do respect that.

Who cares what religion George Bush is. Do we really want a ex drunk ex cokehead to be the president of our country. I believe that anyone who is an addict can be a great person etc. but come on that takes a toll on the old noggin. Why don't we just let Cheech and Chong be in charge of the country? And John Kerry has got to be the biggest idiot on earth to lose an election against coke boy mcgee.

I'm not going to touch the religion issue here but Bush is a complete fool.

Raised Catholic but kind of lost "my faith" if you will. See I think its a choice everyone needs to make for themselves not something that is forced upon you. I have no problem with people that are highly religous...in fact I almost envy them for having "that thing" that gets them through life. But I have a very hard time beleiving it. if there is anything I beleive in its karma I guess. You get what you give. You will be treated in the end as you have treated others.

Assuming there really is a "heaven" and "hell".....
How can you tell me that a hard core criminal can steal, lie, cheat, or hurt people but confess their sins and go to church every sunday and still go to heaven when an atheist can live his or her life being honest, hard working, and good to others but still burn in hell because they didnt believe that their "higher power" was god?

Short and Sweet ,, Ma always said just live by the golden rule. It covers all the bases...
"Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you . " Not sure if Unto is a word but I got it . I don't follow ,,next thing you know thier passing kool-aid around .

had a friend in college who studdied budhism.
it, like christianity, evolved as a way to control the people.
however, it was more to keep them from fighting each other than to support a ruling class.

do what is right to all other things for you shall return as that thing to experience that which you have done to it.
step on a bug? you will come back as that bug.
care for a stray cat? you will come back as that stray.
the cycle of reincarnation continues until you live out your life perfectly.