Ok here’s part 2 of my plug color quest…. all input is greatly appreciated :wiggle:

We established on the last thread that these colors are a must….

White/Pink or Wonderbread?
Yellow/White
Black or Blurple (what’s more important?)
Parrot type color
Metroblurple

Now I’d like to hear what you guys have to say about baitfish patterns. Which ones are most important? What gets your eye vs. the fishes eye?

Here are the baitfish I generally try to replicate help me weed a few out or group some together.

Bunker
Peanut Bunker
Sand Eel
Eel
Mackerel (Blue or Green?)
Mullet
Alewive
Blueback Herring
Spent Herring
Shad
Squid

Then we have a few elaborations
Purple Pogie
Chartreuse Sand Eel
Black/Red

We are also currently working on a new soft plastic bait that, if it works will blow you guys away. And I’m working with some coatings experts to bring you the most durable wood plugs on the market. If all goes well. Thanks for all your help. Look for new things to come from Surf Asylum in the coming weeks and months. New lines and colors for 2007 are going to far exceed what we’ve done in the past :kewl:.

-Dave

Dave,

I know it's not natural looking at all but I'm a big fan of the blue/pink/white traditional herring paint scheme.:uhuh:

Luds

Dave I am a big fan of pink mac.

I'm a big fan of free plugs do we get to test the finish for you?

eel

I'm a big fan of free plugs do we get to test the finish for you?

Sorry Bob. I'm the tester.:rotfl: :wavey: :lasso:

Don't stop making the one on top.

Ok here’s part 2 of my plug color quest…. all input is greatly appreciated :wiggle:

We established on the last thread that these colors are a must….

White/Pink or Wonderbread?
Yellow/White
Black or Blurple (what’s more important?)
Parrot type color
Metroblurple

Now I’d like to hear what you guys have to say about baitfish patterns. Which ones are most important? What gets your eye vs. the fishes eye?

Here are the baitfish I generally try to replicate help me weed a few out or group some together.

Bunker
Peanut Bunker
Sand Eel
Eel
Mackerel (Blue or Green?)
Mullet
Alewive
Blueback Herring
Spent Herring
Shad
Squid

Then we have a few elaborations
Purple Pogie
Chartreuse Sand Eel
Black/Red

We are also currently working on a new soft plastic bait that, if it works will blow you guys away. And I’m working with some coatings experts to bring you the most durable wood plugs on the market. If all goes well. Thanks for all your help. Look for new things to come from Surf Asylum in the coming weeks and months. New lines and colors for 2007 are going to far exceed what we’ve done in the past :kewl:.

-Dave


After reading this post I sighed and had to have a smoke :btu:

With the rubber thing.... love to see an all black weighted internally and pre rigged with two heavy hooks that won`t rust and rubber very durable....maybe 13"?

Another plug color thought ....dark pink metallic as a 4 to 5 ft deep swimmer.

I like natural/baitfish colors but more because I just love plugs than because I think that they will work better, love fishing them and just having them. And I agree with luds, the light blue/pink/white is a must have, especially in swimmers and spooks. That's one I'd consider adding to the "must" list, along with white (my must's are white, yellow/white, herring in swimmers, olive in needles, and blurple).

Personally, I'm not a huge believer in matching a baitfish exactly. I think they look cool, but when/where I fish it doesn't seem to help to have an exact copy of the color scheme. For example, on the spring herring run that I fish, my best colors are solid black or solid white in swimmers, and yellow/white for poppers. One season I did extremely well on gold foil/black back/orange belly bombers during the herring run, but never since that season. I think if you get something somewhat close, you will do well. Fancy paint jobs do more to sell the plug than to catch the fish. It goes back to my response in the other thread, how you work the plug pays out better than how the plug looks.

call me simple, but i am a big fan of all white...and i agree with tlap in that it is the action not the color imo...

Canal man you ask a lot of questions. Try live bait instead.

Alewife or Herring ,

But I feel White w/pink stripes would have those two covered.

And Bunker in the fall. BTW, If you need a tester up here in Maine, drop me a note!:wave:

Doc...remember in Gansett that afternoon....it was size and color.....white! Remember?

Dave,

I know it's not natural looking at all but I'm a big fan of the blue/pink/white traditional herring paint scheme.:uhuh:

Luds

No matter what builder or plug this color pattern sells AND works.

...i guess that is true larry...white was certainly the color du jour that day...it is my go to color anyway...but i was thinking that size that day was what brought the vicisousness...who knows...man, i miss fishing...

...i guess that is true larry...white was certainly the color du jour that day...it is my go to color anyway...but i was thinking that size that day was what brought the vicisousness...who knows...man, i miss fishing...

size and color was the key imo.

Canal man you ask a lot of questions. Try live bait instead.

Actually I am a dyed in the wool eel fisherman, but I fish plugs in the spring and fall and I sell plugs under the Surf Asylum name. I'm just trying to gather opinions as we prepare to change our line. Sorry if I bothered you :huh: :)

-Dave

OK... well I feel like I've gathered a lot of useful info so far. For me, color has never been of huge importance, maybe because I always fish at night. But the other day when I was fishing among schools of bluebacks during the day with a friend. I threw one of my Danny's in Blueback pattern, and he threw everything he had, beachmaster atom in white/pink, beachmaster danny in black/gold/white, pencils spooks, we both caught a lot of fish but the larger fish came after my Danny. Could've been luck, color, action, or just that my retrieve style was what was on the menu that day. But if you look into my bag, you'd see, black, white, yellow and bunker that's pretty much it most of the time. I ask these questions in the hopes of understanding what more people than just my friends and I think a plug needs to be. For me durability is 1st and after a year and a half of trying to figure it out on our own... we've decided to seek professional help. I used these threads to help narrow down the color color field and streamline what we're going to offer. And yes we will be looking for testers I'll let you all know when the time comes.

Thanks Everyone,
and keep the input coming!
-Dave

Dave,
Exact color patterns on plugs as it relates to baitfish has never been that important to me. I generally go with a light shade or dark depending on conditions. That said I completely understand why plug builders try to painstakingly match forage - it may not make a difference but it SELLS PLUGS. Beautiful color patterns catch more fishermen than bass. A sign of good marketing.

I've always been impressed by the fact that Bob Glauda markets his plugs without hooks attached - as a builder he understands that there are many different ways that casters like to rig them.
As an avid caster I've always been looking for the major plug builders to offer their plugs unpainted and without hooks. This would cut down costs and LOTS of labor on the part of the builder. Many of my plugs catch mighty fine with a coat or two of hardware store spray paint. When they get ratty looking I just give them another coat of paint. In short - you don't need a pretty plug to catch bass.

DZ

this year I bought a tsunami popper yellow with a orange strip down the middle of I tell u this they banged the hell of of this thing but my all time favorite color is white swimmer needle or popper .all r great

I've done very well this season on a black/silver scale pattern.

Of course i am a advocate of the BASICs.i have been saying white,Yellow or black are the three basic colors u needfor a long time...
When I make a bag for the evening.I try work a few different styles off of that basic color scheme.U can only have room for so many choice's.That being said I tired seeing of backhanded remarks about Fancy paints an top of the line components.One author made references to having no affiliation with any builders or lure makers.An kinda went out of his way to put down some of the fine products out there today.Well good components are good for us.Just Like Simms Waders an tops.If someone is willing to put the time into a nice paint an finish It also tells me he has probably spent the time on the R&D of the plug.This thread has a familiar ring..It's almost like u all read the same rehashed plug article that was in the latest rag..Well u would be doing yourself a great disservice not to try some different things.Like yr's ago on the cape with the pink plugs.What hardcore die in the wool surf caster would even own a pink lure if it did not work..Better than white or black.. In the spring like Peter an Dave said if Ur gonna plug U NEED TO HAVE THE HERRING PATTERN IN UR BAG..In the fall Yellow an Black, black an gold.Blue an silver,olive,something with a orange belly.Are all colors I try to incorporate into my plug bag.Lots of times color makes more of difference than style of plug.I wish it was purely as simple as black an white but sometimes color makes a huge difference..

I'm getting tired of the same old thing I read in the mags..BlaBla Bla.Anyone with a few yrs of knowledge can write how simple plugs selection is.I read the reviews here an I thought i was gonna see some great revelation in this months mag.Wrong, same old thing.BlaBla Bla.A good article would be to break down the different lure styles,metal
lips,bottles,darters,plastic finish swimmers,poppers an needles. An thats just Ur hardbody lures.What they do an when an how to use em.All the little details on how to get the most out of em.An some of the other Little"secret"tricks that sometimes make a difference.But then again u would have to know something about fishing em an not just be a #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&...

I read this over an it seems my post on plug colors turned into a Bashing of Bill Nolans article in OTW..
I don't know how this happens.i could have changed it But I wanted to appologize to Bill.It's not just U personally. I think Magazines in general feed us this warmed over stuff all the time.I Know u probably worked hard on ur piece an for me to critisize what I have never tried myself is unfair.There is only so much info u can put into a few hundred word article without spinning heads..There was a theme of the article that seemed to put down some of the newer great things that are available today.At least thats how i saw it.It was my take an my opinion.
U know what they say about opinions..
There are some very good writers in OTW.Along with some very good articles.Bill U really need to do one on ur eeling thing for us, a real breakdown on how u do..i struggle sometimes with hookups..i would love to see that article..
Sorry,, it was before i got my coffe in an i must not have been thinking right..

If you are talking about plugs you will be selling, I know I'm a sucker for a nice dark mackeral pattern. I even pay the extra buck on big Gibbs plugs.:bl:

If you are talking about plugs you will be selling, ........:

Bingo! Half the fun of plug fishing is buying and trying different colors and types of plugs. Even if I know I'd do better sticking to white, yellow, or black,......so what? I also know I'd do better sticking to eels, chunks, or live bait.........but I don't. Granted, at night (in anything less than a full moon) it is hard to get too worked up over what color I'm throwing, but by day it is a major part of the enjoyment of plugging.

There is also the often ignored fact that most plugs are bought as luxury goods............because they make us happy.........not because we need them. In that context, color becomes crucial. So please DO NOT make a dark green back, silver side, white belly, red chinned color scheme.......lest my family goes hungry. Thanks.

I read this over an it seems my post on plug colors turned into a Bashing of Bill Nolans article in OTW..
I don't know how this happens.i could have changed it But I wanted to appologize to Bill.It's not just U personally. I think Magazines in general feed us this warmed over stuff all the time.I Know u probably worked hard on ur piece an for me to critisize what I have never tried myself is unfair.There is only so much info u can put into a few hundred word article without spinning heads..There was a theme of the article that seemed to put down some of the newer great things that are available today.At least thats how i saw it.It was my take an my opinion.
U know what they say about opinions..
There are some very good writers in OTW.Along with some very good articles.Bill U really need to do one on ur eeling thing for us, a real breakdown on how u do..i struggle sometimes with hookups..i would love to see that article..
Sorry,, it was before i got my coffe in an i must not have been thinking right..

Hey whatever, this stuff seems to always happen. Everyones entitled to there opinion. As far as eel articles , I have done them several times...more so for the Fisherman mag...so, there out there.

What we really need are some more of those swell articles where a guy and his wife take a trip, hire a charter, and then write thrilling things about how the captain/guide put them on fish and they saw a big one and maybe you should go too, even if you can't write it off your taxes like they did. That's how I learned most of what I know.

dave,
if you looked in my bag, you'ld swear you were colorblind

white
white/pink
bone
white/blue
black
blurple


mostly whites and blacks



when situation justifies, the herrings and bunkers come out

I hear ya Jim. Wow this thread really went awry....

Good of NIB to clarify. :kewl: I enjoyed Bills article very much but I understand what NIB was saying. I enjoy threads like these....they make you think a bit more!:kewl:

I am a fan of basic colors, black, white, yellow or a combo thereof. That being said, and seeing as how I am a sucker for a pretty face as my basement cieling will testify, there are a number of schemes that work but they catch more fisherman than fish in my humble opinion.

Bait fish patterns that exactly replicate a pogie's colors let's say don't really give you much more of an edge of simplym all white. I think it's how it moves and how it's manipulated.

Night fishing on a beach under the new moon how much color do you see? Hold the milkyway's haze and all you see is a dark silhouette even if the plug is blaze orange.

I think bass do see color to an extent and maybe daytime plugging is where it becomes more important, at night not so much.

I have my favorites but I always remember what Stan Gibbs told me if he could only take two plugs to fish what would they be? A black and silver Rebel and a Blue/silver Rebel.

Gold/black, purple/black, white w/ pink stripe, all white, all yellow and yellow/silver/white catch consistently for me.

Then again, what the hell do I know?

Black/white/yellow is all you need. That bascially sumrises what everyone said. A few minor deviations/combinations, but those basic three won't hurt you, ever.

Old time surf rats swore by three colors. White, light blue and black, why all the confusion? If these fish were so wary you wouldn't see 30-40 lb fish being caught on white topwater plugs, their brains are the size of your little finger's nail...

Old time surf rats swore by three colors. White, light blue and black, why all the confusion? If these fish were so wary you wouldn't see 30-40 lb fish being caught on white topwater plugs, their brains are the size of your little finger's nail...


exactly.......

how about clear ? let the surrounding make the color . Im not sure color matters since fish feed from below but I like the colors . I see sounds and hear colors . and voices , voices I hear voices and I dont want to do what they are telling me . I will have to ignore Igor cause he wants me to do bad things

Most plugs have white bellies and that is all they see in my opinion! The action and the bottom of the plug! Like Flap says....at night just a silhouette!:btu:

Most plugs have white bellies and that is all they see in my opinion! The action and the bottom of the plug! Like Flap says....at night just a silhouette!:btu:

Look at a plug from below in the water and you'll see this is not completely true. Fisheye made a post a while back, and I stumbled on to the same thing a few years back while snorkeling. Bigfish, use the search feature... :tooth:

Right i think it was called Bells window or something like that.
Basically the top of the water from below has a mirror effect.So when u look at a plug that is just below the surface u actually see 2 images one of the plug an one from it's reflection from above.In essence the top color of a plug can be important.That is as long as these fish with pinkie nail brains that only a few have mastered in a hundred yrs.buy into it.

snells window.


http://www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/water.htm

Everyone is missing the most important color there is to fishing, that is brown/white, ask any old timer about brown and white plugs.

Look at a plug from below in the water and you'll see this is not completely true. Fisheye made a post a while back, and I stumbled on to the same thing a few years back while snorkeling. Bigfish, use the search feature... :tooth:

Fisheyes pics were day time shots.

snells window.


http://www.seafriends.org.nz/phgraph/water.htm

See Dave Ross's book "The Fisherman's Ocean" he has th best description of Snell's Window in it. Every saltwarer fisherman should own a copy ( me and Numbskull kinda helped with the book)

rebels...my go to, day and night...and ya gotta love the price...

Right i think it was called Bells window or something like that.
Basically the top of the water from below has a mirror effect.So when u look at a plug that is just below the surface u actually see 2 images one of the plug an one from it's reflection from above.In essence the top color of a plug can be important.That is as long as these fish with pinkie nail brains that only a few have mastered in a hundred yrs.buy into it.

ya but....um that may be true for humans...but how about a fish...there is no way at all of knowing none..how a human sees a plug is most likely a 180 on how a fish sees it....You want some Revalation be all to end all "Plug Bible" of an article...the sad truth is that will never happen because no one in the universe knows how or what a fish sees and why exactly they strike etc..Its all talking heads, everyone unless they are a fish is just selling snake oil..If it works it works..it is what it is...The Whys?? only fish know and they take that to there grave.

Far to many people put fish on Human terms its unfortunate because there not humans.

One thing in my mind is what I feel to be true...its the fisherman that catches the fish...Not the plug. There can never be a definative book on plugging because there is not anyone who could write that. Thats why its called fishing not catching. If you use Black and it works then stick with black...whatever...But if you think the guy selling the plug with gold leaf engravings is going to somehow make a person a better fisherman...no way...

I think a good bit of advice would be to learn how to fish before decking out a plug bag with all the fancy plugs...I have caught plenty of good size bass on dannies that had no paint job right of the lathe..At the mouth of a certain river, they caught as well as the colored plugs no difference at all !

"Break though study" "Fish can see this at so many feet " at 10 feet down red turns white" its all bull.......NO ONE KNOWS....

I know first hand the sluggo works great in all black all the time, however many cannot duplicte steves success and get frustrated and toss in the towell, that tells me its the fisherman, its a knack, its a feel, you either have it or you dont, and yes, it works that same way with an eel or a yo-yoed bunker...some people are just good at what they do, put the same plug in two different fishermans hands and the results will be different.

Keep the colors basic, practice fishing the chosen plug and dont have a meltdown over plug colors..........

And hey, when all else fails...try the lowely eel, they work sometimes and its like plugging...the best of both worlds a live bait you "plug" and its already got your two basic colors black and white...But I know this is not the place for eel talk.......

Give me a GOOD plug - no paint - it will catch fish. Most of my old Gibbs didn't have any paint left and they were hot - I was afraid to put paint on them for fear they'd lose their "karma". I'd like to see some of the builders "stain" their plugs. Now that would be different.

Dz

I'd like to see some of the builders "stain" their plugs. Now that would be different.

Dz

Been doing that for years now DZ

Action is usually most important, the fisherman catches the fish.
Somedays, color is key, but if you carry some variety, you'll be set.

[QUOTE=Slipknot;438693]Been doing that for years now DZ

Bruce,
I know you and one other builder who made me a stained plug upon request. You're ahead of the game - a forward thinker. Many thanks.

DZ

See Dave Ross's book "The Fisherman's Ocean"..................... Numbskull kinda helped with the book)

Nah, Steve, I fish with Dave from time to time, but I certainly didn't contribute anything meaningful to his book. I agree with you, however, that it is well worth owning.

striped bass are colorblind.

I still think natural colors are the best bet. Not saying the basic time-tested white/black/yellow don't work fine. But, why not increase the odds a bit more and use plugs that actually look like real bait.

Put it this way, it's a pretty good bet that live eels, live pogies, live herring, a few sandeels on a hood (Cape Cod), etc. will work better than a plug 99% of the time. So why not use plugs that look the most like eels, pogies, herring, sandeels, mullet, etc.

Plus, they look nicer...

Canalman, if you keep making plugs like that spook that I got from you at MSBA, I'll buy them in any damn color.
by the way, the little weight thing at the bottom of my plug fell out (smashed it against the rocks too many times).

Some of the best and most extensive writeups of these topics I've seen comes from research done for the freshwater bass guys. Can't blame them, that's where the money is and it's their nationwide target audience. Oftentimes some of their findings with freshwater stripers as well as other gamefish are included as well.

A really great book in addition to Ross's is "Knowing Bass"
by Dr Keith Jones. Jones is a research biologist for Berkley and has spent much of his life testing and studying gamefish. He has done significant study of colors and coloration patterns. Berkley Corp clearly states up front that Dr Jones had free reign to publish scientific findings of his testing at Berkley without interference from Berkley to remove any impression that the company might be trying to sell extra fishing tackle. A fascinating read at least to me anyway.

Jones did find that fish had preference to certain colors and a two tone pattern. But if you fish at night when fish probably can't distinguish color, it probably won't matter a whole heck of a lot. At least not to the fish anyway. :huh:

Ed

Canalman, if you keep making plugs like that spook that I got from you at MSBA, I'll buy them in any damn color.
by the way, the little weight thing at the bottom of my plug fell out (smashed it against the rocks too many times).

I'm working on fixing that too. :)

ya but....um that may be true for humans...but how about a fish...there is no way at all of knowing none..how a human sees a plug is most likely a 180 on how a fish sees it....You want some Revalation be all to end all "Plug Bible" of an article...the sad truth is that will never happen because no one in the universe knows how or what a fish sees and why exactly they strike etc..Its all talking heads, everyone unless they are a fish is just selling snake oil..If it works it works..it is what it is...The Whys?? only fish know and they take that to there grave.

Far to many people put fish on Human terms its unfortunate because there not humans.

One thing in my mind is what I feel to be true...its the fisherman that catches the fish...Not the plug. There can never be a definative book on plugging because there is not anyone who could write that. Thats why its called fishing not catching. If you use Black and it works then stick with black...whatever...But if you think the guy selling the plug with gold leaf engravings is going to somehow make a person a better fisherman...no way...

I think a good bit of advice would be to learn how to fish before decking out a plug bag with all the fancy plugs...I have caught plenty of good size bass on dannies that had no paint job right of the lathe..At the mouth of a certain river, they caught as well as the colored plugs no difference at all !

"Break though study" "Fish can see this at so many feet " at 10 feet down red turns white" its all bull.......NO ONE KNOWS....

I know first hand the sluggo works great in all black all the time, however many cannot duplicte steves success and get frustrated and toss in the towell, that tells me its the fisherman, its a knack, its a feel, you either have it or you dont, and yes, it works that same way with an eel or a yo-yoed bunker...some people are just good at what they do, put the same plug in two different fishermans hands and the results will be different.

Keep the colors basic, practice fishing the chosen plug and dont have a meltdown over plug colors..........

And hey, when all else fails...try the lowely eel, they work sometimes and its like plugging...the best of both worlds a live bait you "plug" and its already got your two basic colors black and white...But I know this is not the place for eel talk.......


Bill, I love ur simplistic veiw on things.There's alot to be said in keeping things simple.No one can argue with ur success..
I wish I could be like that but I'm a plug junkie..
Thats right I admit it..
My name is Tony an I'm a Plug Junkie..
I wonder if our fore fathers thought in simplistic terms what our world would be like today.Well we would not have gone to the moon an had all of the great inventions that have come with it. Hell we would probably still cook our clubbed meals over a open fire.
It's so simple, even a Canalman can do it..
Sorry Dave a little pun for fun..

Perhaps I like to think about things.I happened to find the snells window thing very interesting.Like U I am not sure what it means to a bass.I like to think they DO see the top of the plug..See my glass is half full..I like keep a open mind to new things.Sure I run the risk of making it harder than it is.I believe as a fisherman, U should always be thinking about what the fish do, see, feel, smell.All those things that might help us catch.It's what we do.When i stop thinkin i'll just pitch a bait pole.
As far a defintive plug article. One could be written to go thru the whens an why's of different styles of plugs. It could be a book.Dave Manzi did a excellent article.One of the best I have ever read on needle fish.He has had some great post's on the subject also.I could do it but they don't have enough money for all of my stuff...
Any one worth there salt knows sometimes color makes little difference.This summer we where getting good bass over 30 lbs on plain jigs.A ball jig no hair no paint..???
Good surfcaster's also know that there are times if u don't have the right color or style u ain't getting squat.If fish are color blind or its dark an they can't see.How do u explain that.Perahaps they have Infa red night vision.There are scientists that spent endless hrs investigating the cones or whatever in the eye of certain specie's of fish to determine what they might or might not see.I think Mike Laptew's is great in makin this clearer for us.In the end it's Like u said we don't know we ain't fish an they ain't talkin...
I agree for a beginner keeping it simple is a must.Work ur way thru a few designs.A few different models to cover most of the water collum.Learn em well, that is ur best bet.I have been saying it for yrs also.Keep ur color selection simple a few dark a few light.It is more important u know what to do with ur offernig an when to present it than color...
I will add my to my thought's this...
This is not my dad's fishery.There are 1000 times more fisherman today.Sometimes it's not as simple as black or white..I like to try things to keep me ahead of the pack.When u do that u learn what the fish tell ya..Thats when they talk.An I'm All ears.. It is what has worked for me.I'm pretty happy with my results.
To each there own..

As far as plugs are concerned..
I still have em in all colors of the rainbow..An
It does make me feel good...'
Me llamo es Antonio.
And I'mo a plugo junkio..